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Elementary School Gym teachers telling kids to restrict calories!

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  • heiliskrimsli
    heiliskrimsli Posts: 735 Member
    You are being selective, you have deliberately cropped out the rest of the response which clearly stated teaching children about nutrition should absolutely be done but that healthy behaviours start in the home. Kids don't get obese at school, they get obese from what their parents allow them to eat.

    I think you're being selective by deliberately ignoring that controlling the quantity of intake is a vital and fundamental part of proper nutrition.
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    I feel like you're either willfully misconstruing what people are saying, or ignoring many of the salient points.

    You mean like ignoring that the number of calories one consumes is a vital and inextricable part of that person's diet and nutrition, which is what you're doing when you argue that nutrition should be taught without discussing calories.
    At that point, they aren't choosing the foods, their parents are. As they grow older, talk about choices that they may be starting to make, and introduce more of the mathematical piece so they understand what impact their choices will have. Eventually you can have them start counting calories, but it may never even be necessary for children, if the foundation is built properly.

    They can learn what a portion size is, what calories are, what the recommended intake for their age is, and what happens when you consistently exceed that.
  • MoiAussi93
    MoiAussi93 Posts: 1,948 Member
    I generally keep this story to myself, but screw it.

    I actually took an active interest, of my own volition, at about age ten to try and measure and control my caloric intake. I knew something was wrong with me. What did I hear in response? The same stuff being slung around in this thread about kids not needing to worry about that kind of stuff, "growing boy", etc.

    I was obese. My whole family was, and is obese (excepting me now). I stayed obese until I finally figured out that I had been lied to for my entire life about "genetics" and "meant to be big" and "strong country boy" and blahblahblah (insert fat people excuse of choice here).

    So yeah, expecting parents to be useful in this scenario isn't always (or often, judging by obesity rates) going to happen.

    I agree. Parents do their best and have good intentions, but a lot of them think of fat kids as "healthy". I am tall, and as a child I grew early and was several inches taller than ALL other kids (even the boys) in third and fourth grade. But I was still fat, and when I said something about being fat all I heard back...from parents and other adults...was something to the effect of "you're a tall girl with a large frame...that's all."
  • coreyreichle
    coreyreichle Posts: 1,039 Member
    earlnabby wrote: »

    You do understand that caloric intake is the foundation upon which nutrition lies, right? Maco and micro ratios are ratios dependent on the whole caloric total. Hard to figure those out, if you don't know what you're taking in...

    The bigger question is, do you understand age appropriateness when it comes to calorie counting and nutrition? 11 year olds are too young to be counting calories. They are NOT too young to learn about what makes a high calorie or low calorie food and what makes up good nutrition and a balanced diet. They are at the age where they are beginning to learn about fat, protein, and carbohydrates. Pushing them to actually COUNT the macros and calories is not something they are ready for. High School kids, sure. Elementary and Middle School kids, no.

    Why are 11 year olds too young to learn about CICO, and caloric content of food, but yet not too young to do things like play football?

    The latter has a serious risk of injury. The former has a serious risk of enabling them to maintain a healthy body weight.
  • coreyreichle
    coreyreichle Posts: 1,039 Member
    edited April 2017
    TR0berts wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    I think that just like any math concept, it should be included in the curriculum at the appropriate age.

    And like every other concept in mathematics, there's a reason that we start kids out with counting and arithmetic rather than algebra, discrete mathematics or calculus.

    Adding and subtracting four digit numbers is something my school taught in third grade. When I was 8. No reason those four digit numbers couldn't be calories.

    Right, but the concept of CICO is much more like an algebraic equation (or sets of equations) than simple addition/subtraction. In fact, I'd say - for growing kids - it's more like a differential equation.

    There are quite a few (some unknown) variables in the CICO model - algebra. Additionally, as the kids grow, those variables change based on their individual rates of growth, among other things - DiffEQs. While we can teach kids what Calories are, and about energy balance, I'm doubtful that kids of the age in question are going to be able to successfully apply these concepts until they understand more and are able to identify most of the variables.

    And unless you're putting your future Olympic athlete kid through some pretty serious testing to determine their exact BMR and caloric expenditure at particular levels of exercise activity to maximize their performance, or conducting a NASA study on the effect of laying down for six months without a measurable change in weight, the algebra and differential equations that you're talking about are completely irrelevant overkill.

    There are guidelines, based on age, for the appropriate number of calories for kids to consume on a daily basis. Those guidelines are applicable to all but the very ends of the bell curve of people, and let's face it, if a kid really is at the extreme end they probably have some kind of medical supervision because they're either immobile or a prodigious athlete.

    It is not that hard to start them out by learning what that guideline is each year of school (as it corresponds to their age) and how much of those calories are taken up by a chocolate bar, or a potato, or a chicken drumstick. Using extremes to try to invalidate a reasonable approach to nutrition is not helpful.

    Even crazier, you don't need crazy tests or alegrab (Calculus, really) to figure out your TDEE. You need to track caloric intake, and weight, and compare the results. That's all!
  • coreyreichle
    coreyreichle Posts: 1,039 Member
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    earlnabby wrote: »

    You do understand that caloric intake is the foundation upon which nutrition lies, right? Maco and micro ratios are ratios dependent on the whole caloric total. Hard to figure those out, if you don't know what you're taking in...

    The bigger question is, do you understand age appropriateness when it comes to calorie counting and nutrition? 11 year olds are too young to be counting calories. They are NOT too young to learn about what makes a high calorie or low calorie food and what makes up good nutrition and a balanced diet. They are at the age where they are beginning to learn about fat, protein, and carbohydrates. Pushing them to actually COUNT the macros and calories is not something they are ready for. High School kids, sure. Elementary and Middle School kids, no.

    Exactly. They don't need to learn to do the math yet, they need to learn that there is an important concept coming down the road. It's laying a foundation so that when they are age appropriate, they can learn to count calories, or not even count them - just that calories are what drive the overall energy balance equation.

    Why don't they need to learn the math yet? My kids, at age 11, were already learning algebra and biology...
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,456 Member
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    earlnabby wrote: »

    You do understand that caloric intake is the foundation upon which nutrition lies, right? Maco and micro ratios are ratios dependent on the whole caloric total. Hard to figure those out, if you don't know what you're taking in...

    The bigger question is, do you understand age appropriateness when it comes to calorie counting and nutrition? 11 year olds are too young to be counting calories. They are NOT too young to learn about what makes a high calorie or low calorie food and what makes up good nutrition and a balanced diet. They are at the age where they are beginning to learn about fat, protein, and carbohydrates. Pushing them to actually COUNT the macros and calories is not something they are ready for. High School kids, sure. Elementary and Middle School kids, no.

    Exactly. They don't need to learn to do the math yet, they need to learn that there is an important concept coming down the road. It's laying a foundation so that when they are age appropriate, they can learn to count calories, or not even count them - just that calories are what drive the overall energy balance equation.

    Why don't they need to learn the math yet? My kids, at age 11, were already learning algebra and biology...

    It has nothing to do with the math. It has to do with not perpetuating body image issues with children who are still growing and maturing.
  • leanjogreen18
    leanjogreen18 Posts: 2,492 Member
    My children at 10-11 made the decision they no longer wanted McDonalds, soda or diet soda due to stuff they heard at school. I was pretty pissed, McDonalds saved time from my busy life of cooking & washing up (or so I thought as a young working mother) but I couldn't force them especially if they felt it wasn't "healthy".

    As adults in their 30s they are still health conscious and are teaching "healthy" eating habits to their children.

    I am on the fence about teaching children counting calories. On one hand I wish I had learned about TDEE at a young age it would have saved me from so many fad dangerous diets that ultimately led me to being obese and not just overweight. On the other I would never want my kids to be body conscious even though they became "health" conscious at a very young age.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,020 Member
    I think kids ARE body conscious once they get past the preschool years. I was VERY aware of the fact that I was too tall, wore glasses, and had crooked teeth as a kid - elementary school. Kids know how they look compared to others. Teaching what calories are will not cause them to become body conscious. IMO.
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,456 Member
    My children at 10-11 made the decision they no longer wanted McDonalds, soda or diet soda due to stuff they heard at school. I was pretty pissed, McDonalds saved time from my busy life of cooking & washing up (or so I thought as a young working mother) but I couldn't force them especially if they felt it wasn't "healthy".

    As adults in their 30s they are still health conscious and are teaching "healthy" eating habits to their children.

    I am on the fence about teaching children counting calories. On one hand I wish I had learned about TDEE at a young age it would have saved me from so many fad dangerous diets that ultimately led me to being obese and not just overweight. On the other I would never want my kids to be body conscious even though they became "health" conscious at a very young age.

    Body conscious vs health conscious. I like that. Great way of putting it.

    For the record, I think kids should be health conscious and as a vocal proponent of education people about CICO as an energy balance on these boards, I do think that children should be taught this, and that at different points in their educational maturity, it would become more detailed and more specific for their own situation. I think at the elementary level, conceptual is better for the SCHOOL to teach. If parents want to go further in their own home, fine. Kids grow and their calorie needs change as they grow and I think that's also fine to conceptually teach. But having kids calculate their calorie needs at age 9 and starting to track calories at that age, I think is overkill. I think the childhood obesity epidemic can be positively impacted by improved awareness of the basic concepts of the CICO model and overall nutrition and wellness.
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,456 Member
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    earlnabby wrote: »

    You do understand that caloric intake is the foundation upon which nutrition lies, right? Maco and micro ratios are ratios dependent on the whole caloric total. Hard to figure those out, if you don't know what you're taking in...

    The bigger question is, do you understand age appropriateness when it comes to calorie counting and nutrition? 11 year olds are too young to be counting calories. They are NOT too young to learn about what makes a high calorie or low calorie food and what makes up good nutrition and a balanced diet. They are at the age where they are beginning to learn about fat, protein, and carbohydrates. Pushing them to actually COUNT the macros and calories is not something they are ready for. High School kids, sure. Elementary and Middle School kids, no.

    Exactly. They don't need to learn to do the math yet, they need to learn that there is an important concept coming down the road. It's laying a foundation so that when they are age appropriate, they can learn to count calories, or not even count them - just that calories are what drive the overall energy balance equation.

    Why don't they need to learn the math yet? My kids, at age 11, were already learning algebra and biology...

    It has nothing to do with the math. It has to do with not perpetuating body image issues with children who are still growing and maturing.

    You mean perpetuating the notion that obesity is in fact, not OK? If so, I'm cool with that.

    Then you should teach your kids to start counting calories at age 11. Not the school.
  • leanjogreen18
    leanjogreen18 Posts: 2,492 Member
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    I think kids ARE body conscious once they get past the preschool years. I was VERY aware of the fact that I was too tall, wore glasses, and had crooked teeth as a kid - elementary school. Kids know how they look compared to others. Teaching what calories are will not cause them to become body conscious. IMO.

    Perhaps a lot of kids are.

    Mine were very self confident, nor was I body conscious until after having my first child (20's) did I notice my hips were a little bigger, my feet grew 1/2 size. It was the first time in my life that I'd even thought about weight.

    Prior to that it was "is my make up on dark enough", "do i need more eyeliner", "are my bell bottoms big enough" or "oh crap super straight legs are in now what did I miss over the summer":)
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,020 Member
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    I think kids ARE body conscious once they get past the preschool years. I was VERY aware of the fact that I was too tall, wore glasses, and had crooked teeth as a kid - elementary school. Kids know how they look compared to others. Teaching what calories are will not cause them to become body conscious. IMO.

    Perhaps a lot of kids are.

    Mine were very self confident, nor was I body conscious until after having my first child (20's) did I notice my hips were a little bigger, my feet grew 1/2 size. It was the first time in my life that I'd even thought about weight.

    Prior to that it was "is my make up on dark enough", "do i need more eyeliner", "are my bell bottoms big enough" or "oh crap super straight legs are in now what did I miss over the summer":)

    Body conscious and confidence are separate issues in my mind. I knew I was tall and wore glasses but no one bugged or bullied me about it because I didn't care what they thought... Or maybe they were just afraid to pick on the 5'8", 130 lb 12 year old in grade 6. LOL ;)

    ... I hated that post pregnancy foot growth. I went from an 8.5 to a 10.5 by my last one. Had to buy all new shoes.
  • leanjogreen18
    leanjogreen18 Posts: 2,492 Member
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    I think kids ARE body conscious once they get past the preschool years. I was VERY aware of the fact that I was too tall, wore glasses, and had crooked teeth as a kid - elementary school. Kids know how they look compared to others. Teaching what calories are will not cause them to become body conscious. IMO.

    Perhaps a lot of kids are.

    Mine were very self confident, nor was I body conscious until after having my first child (20's) did I notice my hips were a little bigger, my feet grew 1/2 size. It was the first time in my life that I'd even thought about weight.

    Prior to that it was "is my make up on dark enough", "do i need more eyeliner", "are my bell bottoms big enough" or "oh crap super straight legs are in now what did I miss over the summer":)

    Body conscious and confidence are separate issues in my mind. I knew I was tall and wore glasses but no one bugged or bullied me about it because I didn't care what they thought... Or maybe they were just afraid to pick on the 5'8", 130 lb 12 year old in grade 6. LOL ;)

    ... I hated that post pregnancy foot growth. I went from an 8.5 to a 10.5 by my last one. Had to buy all new shoes.


    Ah, I see body conscious as negative and not confident in ones appearance or looking to improve it or having an issue with. Different again of self awareness or confidence where one says ok I have big feet but who the heck cares confident that big feet are a sign of greatness (total exaggeration I'm sure you get what I'm saying:)).

    Its good to understand ones definitions:)

    Whoa thats a big leap from 8.5 to 10.5. I only went up 7 1/2 to 8 but as I get older I'm back down to 7 1/2. Whats up with that weirdness? :)
  • coreyreichle
    coreyreichle Posts: 1,039 Member
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    earlnabby wrote: »

    You do understand that caloric intake is the foundation upon which nutrition lies, right? Maco and micro ratios are ratios dependent on the whole caloric total. Hard to figure those out, if you don't know what you're taking in...

    The bigger question is, do you understand age appropriateness when it comes to calorie counting and nutrition? 11 year olds are too young to be counting calories. They are NOT too young to learn about what makes a high calorie or low calorie food and what makes up good nutrition and a balanced diet. They are at the age where they are beginning to learn about fat, protein, and carbohydrates. Pushing them to actually COUNT the macros and calories is not something they are ready for. High School kids, sure. Elementary and Middle School kids, no.

    Exactly. They don't need to learn to do the math yet, they need to learn that there is an important concept coming down the road. It's laying a foundation so that when they are age appropriate, they can learn to count calories, or not even count them - just that calories are what drive the overall energy balance equation.

    Why don't they need to learn the math yet? My kids, at age 11, were already learning algebra and biology...

    It has nothing to do with the math. It has to do with not perpetuating body image issues with children who are still growing and maturing.

    You mean perpetuating the notion that obesity is in fact, not OK? If so, I'm cool with that.

    Then you should teach your kids to start counting calories at age 11. Not the school.

    And, again, if we just relinquish that as "Well, teach it at home!" we'll continue down the path of ever-increasing obesity rates among children and adult; and Type II diabetes in children will continue to rise.

    Because, as a whole, parents are failing at this, and failing hard. To the point where the US cannot meet recruiting quotas, not due to unwillingness to enlist, but medically unable to do so due to obesity.
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,456 Member
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    earlnabby wrote: »

    You do understand that caloric intake is the foundation upon which nutrition lies, right? Maco and micro ratios are ratios dependent on the whole caloric total. Hard to figure those out, if you don't know what you're taking in...

    The bigger question is, do you understand age appropriateness when it comes to calorie counting and nutrition? 11 year olds are too young to be counting calories. They are NOT too young to learn about what makes a high calorie or low calorie food and what makes up good nutrition and a balanced diet. They are at the age where they are beginning to learn about fat, protein, and carbohydrates. Pushing them to actually COUNT the macros and calories is not something they are ready for. High School kids, sure. Elementary and Middle School kids, no.

    Exactly. They don't need to learn to do the math yet, they need to learn that there is an important concept coming down the road. It's laying a foundation so that when they are age appropriate, they can learn to count calories, or not even count them - just that calories are what drive the overall energy balance equation.

    Why don't they need to learn the math yet? My kids, at age 11, were already learning algebra and biology...

    It has nothing to do with the math. It has to do with not perpetuating body image issues with children who are still growing and maturing.

    You mean perpetuating the notion that obesity is in fact, not OK? If so, I'm cool with that.

    Then you should teach your kids to start counting calories at age 11. Not the school.

    And, again, if we just relinquish that as "Well, teach it at home!" we'll continue down the path of ever-increasing obesity rates among children and adult; and Type II diabetes in children will continue to rise.

    Because, as a whole, parents are failing at this, and failing hard. To the point where the US cannot meet recruiting quotas, not due to unwillingness to enlist, but medically unable to do so due to obesity.

    And again. I'm not saying the schools should not talk about this at all. I am just saying that the level of detail provided would change over time just as any concept taught in school changes as children age and mature. I support teaching about CICO and nutrition in schools. I feel like you are ignoring that.
  • heiliskrimsli
    heiliskrimsli Posts: 735 Member
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    earlnabby wrote: »

    You do understand that caloric intake is the foundation upon which nutrition lies, right? Maco and micro ratios are ratios dependent on the whole caloric total. Hard to figure those out, if you don't know what you're taking in...

    The bigger question is, do you understand age appropriateness when it comes to calorie counting and nutrition? 11 year olds are too young to be counting calories. They are NOT too young to learn about what makes a high calorie or low calorie food and what makes up good nutrition and a balanced diet. They are at the age where they are beginning to learn about fat, protein, and carbohydrates. Pushing them to actually COUNT the macros and calories is not something they are ready for. High School kids, sure. Elementary and Middle School kids, no.

    Exactly. They don't need to learn to do the math yet, they need to learn that there is an important concept coming down the road. It's laying a foundation so that when they are age appropriate, they can learn to count calories, or not even count them - just that calories are what drive the overall energy balance equation.

    Why don't they need to learn the math yet? My kids, at age 11, were already learning algebra and biology...

    It has nothing to do with the math. It has to do with not perpetuating body image issues with children who are still growing and maturing.

    You mean perpetuating the notion that obesity is in fact, not OK? If so, I'm cool with that.

    I agree, although I'd also add "overweight" to that. Even being overweight has a negative impact upon health. Being body conscious is part of being health conscious.
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    earlnabby wrote: »

    You do understand that caloric intake is the foundation upon which nutrition lies, right? Maco and micro ratios are ratios dependent on the whole caloric total. Hard to figure those out, if you don't know what you're taking in...

    The bigger question is, do you understand age appropriateness when it comes to calorie counting and nutrition? 11 year olds are too young to be counting calories. They are NOT too young to learn about what makes a high calorie or low calorie food and what makes up good nutrition and a balanced diet. They are at the age where they are beginning to learn about fat, protein, and carbohydrates. Pushing them to actually COUNT the macros and calories is not something they are ready for. High School kids, sure. Elementary and Middle School kids, no.

    Exactly. They don't need to learn to do the math yet, they need to learn that there is an important concept coming down the road. It's laying a foundation so that when they are age appropriate, they can learn to count calories, or not even count them - just that calories are what drive the overall energy balance equation.

    Why don't they need to learn the math yet? My kids, at age 11, were already learning algebra and biology...

    It has nothing to do with the math. It has to do with not perpetuating body image issues with children who are still growing and maturing.

    You mean perpetuating the notion that obesity is in fact, not OK? If so, I'm cool with that.

    Then you should teach your kids to start counting calories at age 11. Not the school.

    And, again, if we just relinquish that as "Well, teach it at home!" we'll continue down the path of ever-increasing obesity rates among children and adult; and Type II diabetes in children will continue to rise.

    Because, as a whole, parents are failing at this, and failing hard. To the point where the US cannot meet recruiting quotas, not due to unwillingness to enlist, but medically unable to do so due to obesity.

    Many of the same arguments have been made regarding sex education being taught in schools, and we've seen that STDs and teenage pregnancy at higher levels are the consequence of leaving it up to the parents. I remember when Type II Diabetes was known as adult onset diabetes, which had to change because children are being diagnosed with it as a consequence of childhood obesity.

    You're right that leaving the numbers "for home" is failing in an epic way.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,020 Member
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    I think kids ARE body conscious once they get past the preschool years. I was VERY aware of the fact that I was too tall, wore glasses, and had crooked teeth as a kid - elementary school. Kids know how they look compared to others. Teaching what calories are will not cause them to become body conscious. IMO.

    Perhaps a lot of kids are.

    Mine were very self confident, nor was I body conscious until after having my first child (20's) did I notice my hips were a little bigger, my feet grew 1/2 size. It was the first time in my life that I'd even thought about weight.

    Prior to that it was "is my make up on dark enough", "do i need more eyeliner", "are my bell bottoms big enough" or "oh crap super straight legs are in now what did I miss over the summer":)

    Body conscious and confidence are separate issues in my mind. I knew I was tall and wore glasses but no one bugged or bullied me about it because I didn't care what they thought... Or maybe they were just afraid to pick on the 5'8", 130 lb 12 year old in grade 6. LOL ;)

    ... I hated that post pregnancy foot growth. I went from an 8.5 to a 10.5 by my last one. Had to buy all new shoes.


    Ah, I see body conscious as negative and not confident in ones appearance or looking to improve it or having an issue with. Different again of self awareness or confidence where one says ok I have big feet but who the heck cares confident that big feet are a sign of greatness (total exaggeration I'm sure you get what I'm saying:)).

    Its good to understand ones definitions:)

    Whoa thats a big leap from 8.5 to 10.5. I only went up 7 1/2 to 8 but as I get older I'm back down to 7 1/2. Whats up with that weirdness? :)

    I see what you are saying. :)

    You're feet are shrinking? That is odd. Could it be weight loss helping with it?
  • coreyreichle
    coreyreichle Posts: 1,039 Member
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    earlnabby wrote: »

    You do understand that caloric intake is the foundation upon which nutrition lies, right? Maco and micro ratios are ratios dependent on the whole caloric total. Hard to figure those out, if you don't know what you're taking in...

    The bigger question is, do you understand age appropriateness when it comes to calorie counting and nutrition? 11 year olds are too young to be counting calories. They are NOT too young to learn about what makes a high calorie or low calorie food and what makes up good nutrition and a balanced diet. They are at the age where they are beginning to learn about fat, protein, and carbohydrates. Pushing them to actually COUNT the macros and calories is not something they are ready for. High School kids, sure. Elementary and Middle School kids, no.

    Exactly. They don't need to learn to do the math yet, they need to learn that there is an important concept coming down the road. It's laying a foundation so that when they are age appropriate, they can learn to count calories, or not even count them - just that calories are what drive the overall energy balance equation.

    Why don't they need to learn the math yet? My kids, at age 11, were already learning algebra and biology...

    It has nothing to do with the math. It has to do with not perpetuating body image issues with children who are still growing and maturing.

    You mean perpetuating the notion that obesity is in fact, not OK? If so, I'm cool with that.

    Then you should teach your kids to start counting calories at age 11. Not the school.

    And, again, if we just relinquish that as "Well, teach it at home!" we'll continue down the path of ever-increasing obesity rates among children and adult; and Type II diabetes in children will continue to rise.

    Because, as a whole, parents are failing at this, and failing hard. To the point where the US cannot meet recruiting quotas, not due to unwillingness to enlist, but medically unable to do so due to obesity.

    And again. I'm not saying the schools should not talk about this at all. I am just saying that the level of detail provided would change over time just as any concept taught in school changes as children age and mature. I support teaching about CICO and nutrition in schools. I feel like you are ignoring that.

    I get what you're saying. We were talking about 6th graders here, though. How is that too young? They're only a couple years away from high school at this point.