Thoughts on eating all organic
Replies
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geneticsteacher wrote: »No difference in nutrition of conventional vs. organic but there IS a difference in pesticide residues.
Yup, the Dirty Dozen I buy organic or locally. We just have small family farms here - nothing like in the Michael Pollan article I linked above.0 -
I refuse to buy organic.
I'm in a Facebook group called GMOLOL which provides the many, many reasons not to buy organic food.
+1! Although I don't have a Facebook, I forgo anything that says organic. It's such a marketing scheme that does little more than help people lighten their wallet.3 -
There's pros and cons, neither of which have anything to do with nutrition.
Pros: A lot of small organic farmers make an honest effort to use responsible practices. When you're buying locally, it's good to support your local people who are trying to do the right thing. Many heirloom varieties are gosh darn delicious and should be tried for fun and to encourage crop diversity.
Cons: Big companies cash in on the organic craze and use lousy though technically qualifying practices, the results of which they can charge inflated prices. Additionally, organic pesticides are often non-biodegradable, unlike their synthetic counterparts. Food grown the old fashioned human interventionist ways are fine and often better than fine--sometime the organic crowd can be distressingly anti-science.5 -
Wow thanks for all the replies! Definitely learned a lot here ☺️1
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stevencloser wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Actually this is based on my long service for Defra - the UK agriculture department - including 3 years in the department dealing with additives and "novel foods" (their title at the time). I have no objection to GMOs for beneficial purpose such as disease resistance, but not to allow the rest of the plant life to be blasted out of existence with expensive pesticides herbicides (from the same company) and the consequential detriment to insect life and ultimately the planet. If that is too complicated, watch "The Bee Movie"
FIFY.
Although I do agree about the point of the same companies selling the herbicide and the herbicide-resistant crop seed (and then suing for patent infringements when non-GMO crops get "infected" by being pollinated from nearby GMO fields). I also have concerns about the effects this approach has on biodiversity.
The guy who got sued that everyone heard about was proven to have done it on purpose.
It's about more than one guy and more than one case. And even if you think the courts have developed a fair way of deciding whether there is patent infringement liability (I don't), farmers who want to market their products as non-GMO can lose that ability when their crops are pollinated from nearby GMO fields, and have little or no recourse.
If somebody walks onto my property and paints my house puke green without my permission, I'd want to be paid damages, not told that I have to pay them for the paint and their labor.3 -
I refuse to buy organic.
I'm in a Facebook group called GMOLOL which provides the many, many reasons not to buy organic food.
Just a note to anyone reading this. Organic and nonGMO are different.
Just because you buy a food with a nonGMO label doesn't necessarily mean it's organic.
Back on topic. Ideally I want foods with the least amount of interaction with pesticides and hormones. Realistically? I don't really google every food before I purchase.
Sometimes GMO food is the better option.
Some organic foods taste better. Like milk.
Fruit from the farmer's market seems to taste better than fruit from the supermarket. But then the fruit is more likely to be small or have had a bug chewing on it at some point.
I don't know. It depends on the food. I'll continue buying organic milk and chocolate.2 -
bienemajamfp wrote: »I eat a lot of USDA organic foods. But not because they are supposedly healthy. IMO they taste much better. Much more flavor and not loaded with added sugars.
So an organic apple has no added sugars, but a non-organic one is loaded with them? Sounds legit.
That's what had me puzzled.
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We buy organic or non-GMO (organic has to be non-GMO, but Non-GMO does not have to be organic) as much as possible (which amounts to about 80-90% of the time). We do so to avoid the worst pesticides (organic uses some) and with meat, the hormones and/or antibiotics often given to the animals. If I have to choose local vs. organic, I buy local. But that is almost always "organic" anyway even if they aren't certified (a lot of farmers/people use organic practices but don't want to pay for the organic label - it's expensive). Our beef is local raised, grass fed, non-hormone and antibiotic (we buy a half every year) - but not "organic" by certification. Our chicken is organic only. Our pork is not organic, but local and free range (yes, there is such a thing as free range pigs
). We are very picky. We've seen the pesticides and hormones in produce and meat directly affect the health of family so we are very careful. We grow and preserve as much of our produce as possible (using organic practices) and we have chickens we free range and feed organically for their eggs. To us, organic/Non-GMO foods taste better, but more importantly, our health is affected and we care more about that. 1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Actually this is based on my long service for Defra - the UK agriculture department - including 3 years in the department dealing with additives and "novel foods" (their title at the time). I have no objection to GMOs for beneficial purpose such as disease resistance, but not to allow the rest of the plant life to be blasted out of existence with expensive pesticides herbicides (from the same company) and the consequential detriment to insect life and ultimately the planet. If that is too complicated, watch "The Bee Movie"
FIFY.
Although I do agree about the point of the same companies selling the herbicide and the herbicide-resistant crop seed (and then suing for patent infringements when non-GMO crops get "infected" by being pollinated from nearby GMO fields). I also have concerns about the effects this approach has on biodiversity.
The guy who got sued that everyone heard about was proven to have done it on purpose.
It's about more than one guy and more than one case. And even if you think the courts have developed a fair way of deciding whether there is patent infringement liability (I don't), farmers who want to market their products as non-GMO can lose that ability when their crops are pollinated from nearby GMO fields, and have little or no recourse.
If somebody walks onto my property and paints my house puke green without my permission, I'd want to be paid damages, not told that I have to pay them for the paint and their labor.
https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2016/01/04/gmo-patent-controversy-3-monsanto-sue-farmers-inadvertent-gmo-contamination/0 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »We buy organic or non-GMO (organic has to be non-GMO, but Non-GMO does not have to be organic) as much as possible (which amounts to about 80-90% of the time). We do so to avoid the worst pesticides (organic uses some) and with meat, the hormones and/or antibiotics often given to the animals. If I have to choose local vs. organic, I buy local. But that is almost always "organic" anyway even if they aren't certified (a lot of farmers/people use organic practices but don't want to pay for the organic label - it's expensive). Our beef is local raised, grass fed, non-hormone and antibiotic (we buy a half every year) - but not "organic" by certification. Our chicken is organic only. Our pork is not organic, but local and free range (yes, there is such a thing as free range pigs ). We are very picky. We've seen the pesticides and hormones in produce and meat directly affect the health of family so we are very careful. We grow and preserve as much of our produce as possible (using organic practices) and we have chickens we free range and feed organically for their eggs. To us, organic/Non-GMO foods taste better, but more importantly, our health is affected and we care more about that.
Would you mind sharing how much your weekly grocery bill is eating this way? Back when I did my paleo experiment I really focused on organic/locally raised as much as possible and it doubled our grocery budget-and that was just me eating that way. I can't imagine feeding my family of 5 the way you do, with my $100 a week grocery budget, but maybe there's a way to do it that I'm not thinking of
eta: we do get free eggs from a relative that are free range during the warmer months, unfortunately they slow down producing eggs in the winter so I have to buy eggs at the store (which do have a different taste, yuck!).0 -
crazyycatlady1 wrote: »ronjsteele1 wrote: »We buy organic or non-GMO (organic has to be non-GMO, but Non-GMO does not have to be organic) as much as possible (which amounts to about 80-90% of the time). We do so to avoid the worst pesticides (organic uses some) and with meat, the hormones and/or antibiotics often given to the animals. If I have to choose local vs. organic, I buy local. But that is almost always "organic" anyway even if they aren't certified (a lot of farmers/people use organic practices but don't want to pay for the organic label - it's expensive). Our beef is local raised, grass fed, non-hormone and antibiotic (we buy a half every year) - but not "organic" by certification. Our chicken is organic only. Our pork is not organic, but local and free range (yes, there is such a thing as free range pigs ). We are very picky. We've seen the pesticides and hormones in produce and meat directly affect the health of family so we are very careful. We grow and preserve as much of our produce as possible (using organic practices) and we have chickens we free range and feed organically for their eggs. To us, organic/Non-GMO foods taste better, but more importantly, our health is affected and we care more about that.
Would you mind sharing how much your weekly grocery bill is eating this way? Back when I did my paleo experiment I really focused on organic/locally raised as much as possible and it doubled our grocery budget-and that was just me eating that way. I can't imagine feeding my family of 5 the way you do, with my $100 a week grocery budget, but maybe there's a way to do it that I'm not thinking of
eta: we do get free eggs from a relative that are free range during the warmer months, unfortunately they slow down producing eggs in the winter so I have to buy eggs at the store (which do have a different taste, yuck!).
This may be a little off subject but suggest to your friend that they put a light in their coop on a timer. Chickens lay less in winter because of the shorter daylight hours. By simply extending the hours with light most chickens will lay daily all year.3 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I could never afford to eat all organic food. The closest i get is free range eggs (i refuse to buy cage eggs) and chicken.
I make sure my eggs and chicken are organic / cage free. The beef is grass fed. The fish are wild and NEVER farmed. Veggies, whatever is cheaper. The difference is in the protein. I could afford to buy all organic always, but why limit myself to whats available?
I've been working on incorporating fish 4-5 times a week into my diet and the EWG recommends farmed fish for several species. What types of fish do you eat? I'm very new to the whole fish thing so still learning 0 -
Well, my mother was just diagnosed with breast cancer and is getting treated at Roswell. She heard that eating organic is better and may help her health overall. Every Dr. she's mentioned it to is like, "meh" so I am not concerned with organic vs not organic.1
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crazyycatlady1 wrote: »ronjsteele1 wrote: »We buy organic or non-GMO (organic has to be non-GMO, but Non-GMO does not have to be organic) as much as possible (which amounts to about 80-90% of the time). We do so to avoid the worst pesticides (organic uses some) and with meat, the hormones and/or antibiotics often given to the animals. If I have to choose local vs. organic, I buy local. But that is almost always "organic" anyway even if they aren't certified (a lot of farmers/people use organic practices but don't want to pay for the organic label - it's expensive). Our beef is local raised, grass fed, non-hormone and antibiotic (we buy a half every year) - but not "organic" by certification. Our chicken is organic only. Our pork is not organic, but local and free range (yes, there is such a thing as free range pigs ). We are very picky. We've seen the pesticides and hormones in produce and meat directly affect the health of family so we are very careful. We grow and preserve as much of our produce as possible (using organic practices) and we have chickens we free range and feed organically for their eggs. To us, organic/Non-GMO foods taste better, but more importantly, our health is affected and we care more about that.
Would you mind sharing how much your weekly grocery bill is eating this way? Back when I did my paleo experiment I really focused on organic/locally raised as much as possible and it doubled our grocery budget-and that was just me eating that way. I can't imagine feeding my family of 5 the way you do, with my $100 a week grocery budget, but maybe there's a way to do it that I'm not thinking of
eta: we do get free eggs from a relative that are free range during the warmer months, unfortunately they slow down producing eggs in the winter so I have to buy eggs at the store (which do have a different taste, yuck!).
Sure, but are you sitting down?
We spend between $500-600 every two weeks. Keep in mind that this includes dog food (we raw meat feed), non-foods like toilet paper, etc.
When I'm working with moms on a tight budget I usually teach them what I call "non-negotiables" vs "live with." My 100% will only do organic or non-gmo are corn and soy in any form. Meat and dairy are also non-negotiables because of the antibiotics and hormones. We don't do a lot of dairy so I am able to save in that area. I've also found non-organic brands that don't use rBst like Tillamook brand products. So when I can I get those instead of organic that's what I do. Any produce I have to buy I look at how heavily something is sprayed normally. Thicker skinned produce I will go non-organic on if I have to save money some weeks. Our chicken feed is non-gmo but not certified organic but they use organic practices. So where we can, we try to find cheaper alternatives that satisfy my family's needs. I buy from farms as much as possible because they tend to be cheaper overall. Buying half a beef costs us $1700 a year and comes out to about $6.10/lb. but if I bought organic filet mignon in the store it'd be way more then that. Organic store beef is $5.99/lb for ground here. So overall, it saves us quite a bit because I don't have to buy beef all year.
I think what kills my budget is kids snacks because I will only buy organic processed crap for those. If I can't pronounce and know exactly what an ingredient is, I won't buy it. So that's really what sucks up a lot of funds. Mine are almost grown so I expect my costs there to drop several hundred dollars when they're gone. I try to make things like trail mix to save on costs that way but with homeschooling time is a premium in my house. But my girls are also old enough they help out making snacks in bulk now.
I also try to utilize Costco as much as possible. For example, I ran out of frozen diced peppers from my garden this past winter so I bought a bag from Costco and diced them up and froze them rather then buy a few every couple of weeks. I do that with carrots, broccoli, asparagus,etc. I can usually break those down into several frozen bags for meals rather then buying organic frozen when I run out of something during the winter.
And in the end, I do my best to keep it organic where it matters most to me and the other stuff we thank God for his provision and eat without fear. I tell my kids that we eat "clean" (for lack of a better word) 80-90% of the time so that when we don't eat that way it doesn't affect our health as much. But for sure, my crew can tell when they've been eating too much crap. They feel sick after awhile and their digestion gets really off.
This is long. Sorry. But it's not a short process. I actually struggle to keep my food at that budget so I really look each time at what I can stretch. For instance, last night we had a large roast with potatoes and carrots. Today I will cut up all the leftovers, add my canned diced tomatoes, some seasonings and a side of garlic bread and we'll have beef stew for tonight's dinner. My husband and son will eat it for leftovers for lunch this weekend and I'll still have enough for hubby's lunch a couple of days next week. It was a 5lb roast. So I really try to stretch things out as much as I can with one teen boy that eats as much as all of us put together.
Does that help at all?0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
This may be a little off subject but suggest to your friend that they put a light in their coop on a timer. Chickens lay less in winter because of the shorter daylight hours. By simply extending the hours with light most chickens will lay daily all year.
We chose not to light ours because it shortens the natural life cycle of the chicken. This is true of beef given rBst to force an Increase in milk production as well. A chicken left to lay on its natural cycle will lay a good 7-8yrs (our oldest layer is going on 9). When they are in light all winter to lay they will usually die around year 4-5 depending on the breed.
Cows will usually live and give milk for about 7-8yrs. When they're forced to produce more with hormones they usually die around year 3-4. And surviving to 4 is rare according to my dairy farming friend (she won't even drink their milk because she said it is so full of puss and junk). Blech! I live in ag country so a lot of people drink raw milk here.0 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »crazyycatlady1 wrote: »ronjsteele1 wrote: »We buy organic or non-GMO (organic has to be non-GMO, but Non-GMO does not have to be organic) as much as possible (which amounts to about 80-90% of the time). We do so to avoid the worst pesticides (organic uses some) and with meat, the hormones and/or antibiotics often given to the animals. If I have to choose local vs. organic, I buy local. But that is almost always "organic" anyway even if they aren't certified (a lot of farmers/people use organic practices but don't want to pay for the organic label - it's expensive). Our beef is local raised, grass fed, non-hormone and antibiotic (we buy a half every year) - but not "organic" by certification. Our chicken is organic only. Our pork is not organic, but local and free range (yes, there is such a thing as free range pigs ). We are very picky. We've seen the pesticides and hormones in produce and meat directly affect the health of family so we are very careful. We grow and preserve as much of our produce as possible (using organic practices) and we have chickens we free range and feed organically for their eggs. To us, organic/Non-GMO foods taste better, but more importantly, our health is affected and we care more about that.
Would you mind sharing how much your weekly grocery bill is eating this way? Back when I did my paleo experiment I really focused on organic/locally raised as much as possible and it doubled our grocery budget-and that was just me eating that way. I can't imagine feeding my family of 5 the way you do, with my $100 a week grocery budget, but maybe there's a way to do it that I'm not thinking of
eta: we do get free eggs from a relative that are free range during the warmer months, unfortunately they slow down producing eggs in the winter so I have to buy eggs at the store (which do have a different taste, yuck!).
Sure, but are you sitting down? We spend between $500-600 every two weeks. Keep in mind that this includes dog food (we raw meat feed), non-foods like toilet paper, etc.
When I'm working with moms on a tight budget I usually teach them what I call "non-negotiables" vs "live with." My 100% will only do organic or non-gmo are corn and soy in any form. Meat and dairy are also non-negotiables because of the antibiotics and hormones. We don't do a lot of dairy so I am able to save in that area. I've also found non-organic brands that don't use rBst like Tillamook brand products. So when I can I get those instead of organic that's what I do. Any produce I have to buy I look at how heavily something is sprayed normally. Thicker skinned produce I will go non-organic on if I have to save money some weeks. Our chicken feed is non-gmo but not certified organic but they use organic practices. So where we can, we try to find cheaper alternatives that satisfy my family's needs. I buy from farms as much as possible because they tend to be cheaper overall. Buying half a beef costs us $1700 a year and comes out to about $6.10/lb. but if I bought organic filet mignon in the store it'd be way more then that. Organic store beef is $5.99/lb for ground here. So overall, it saves us quite a bit because I don't have to buy beef all year.
I think what kills my budget is kids snacks because I will only buy organic processed crap for those. If I can't pronounce and know exactly what an ingredient is, I won't buy it. So that's really what sucks up a lot of funds. Mine are almost grown so I expect my costs there to drop several hundred dollars when they're gone. I try to make things like trail mix to save on costs that way but with homeschooling time is a premium in my house. But my girls are also old enough they help out making snacks in bulk now.
I also try to utilize Costco as much as possible. For example, I ran out of frozen diced peppers from my garden this past winter so I bought a bag from Costco and diced them up and froze them rather then buy a few every couple of weeks. I do that with carrots, broccoli, asparagus,etc. I can usually break those down into several frozen bags for meals rather then buying organic frozen when I run out of something during the winter.
And in the end, I do my best to keep it organic where it matters most to me and the other stuff we thank God for his provision and eat without fear. I tell my kids that we eat "clean" (for lack of a better word) 80-90% of the time so that when we don't eat that way it doesn't affect our health as much. But for sure, my crew can tell when they've been eating too much crap. They feel sick after awhile and their digestion gets really off.
This is long. Sorry. But it's not a short process. I actually struggle to keep my food at that budget so I really look each time at what I can stretch. For instance, last night we had a large roast with potatoes and carrots. Today I will cut up all the leftovers, add my canned diced tomatoes, some seasonings and a side of garlic bread and we'll have beef stew for tonight's dinner. My husband and son will eat it for leftovers for lunch this weekend and I'll still have enough for hubby's lunch a couple of days next week. It was a 5lb roast. So I really try to stretch things out as much as I can with one teen boy that eats as much as all of us put together.
Does that help at all?
Wow, thanks for taking the time to respond like this! Right now I'm making changes as I can fit them in (just switched from margarine to real butter and sometimes Aldi even carries Kerrygold yay!). Eggs are a biggie for me, because there's such an obvious taste difference (thanks to pp for the lamp suggestion-will definitely pass that on!). Last week I was at Meijer and I just couldn't make myself buy the conventional eggs (.89 a dozen), so I bought Born Free brand free to roam eggs (at almost $4 sigh...), and my family had a fit after eating them because of the taste
I guess we've become egg snobs lol. 0 -
You might check Craig's list or local farms for free range eggs (even if they aren't organic). When ours weren't laying last winter I found them free range for $3 a dozen. I would buy 8-10 dozen at a time so they would save them for me. You'll get better eggs for cheaper if you do that. We use to sell ours for $3 a dozen.1
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ronjsteele1 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
This may be a little off subject but suggest to your friend that they put a light in their coop on a timer. Chickens lay less in winter because of the shorter daylight hours. By simply extending the hours with light most chickens will lay daily all year.
We chose not to light ours because it shortens the natural life cycle of the chicken. This is true of beef given rBst to force an Increase in milk production as well. A chicken left to lay on its natural cycle will lay a good 7-8yrs (our oldest layer is going on 9). When they are in light all winter to lay they will usually die around year 4-5 depending on the breed.
Cows will usually live and give milk for about 7-8yrs. When they're forced to produce more with hormones they usually die around year 3-4. And surviving to 4 is rare according to my dairy farming friend (she won't even drink their milk because she said it is so full of puss and junk). Blech! I live in ag country so a lot of people drink raw milk here.
The natural lifespan of a cow is 18-22 years, I thought. Why are these cows dying natural deaths at age 7-8?1 -
The pesticide argument isn't a good one either. This article is a blog but contains citations to studies.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/httpblogsscientificamericancomscience-sushi20110718mythbusting-101-organic-farming-conventional-agriculture/
"What makes organic farming different, then? It's not the use of pesticides, it's the origin of the pesticides used. Organic pesticides are those that are derived from natural sources and processed lightly if at all before use. This is different than the current pesticides used by conventional agriculture, which are generally synthetic. It has been assumed for years that pesticides that occur naturally (in certain plants, for example) are somehow better for us and the environment than those that have been created by man. As more research is done into their toxicity, however, this simply isn't true, either. Many natural pesticides have been found to be potential - or serious - health risks.
Take the example of Rotenone. Rotenone was widely used in the US as an organic pesticide for decades 3. Because it is natural in origin, occurring in the roots and stems of a small number of subtropical plants, it was considered "safe" as well as "organic". However, research has shown that rotenone is highly dangerous because it kills by attacking mitochondria, the energy powerhouses of all living cells. Research found that exposure to rotenone caused Parkinson's Disease-like symptoms in rats, and had the potential to kill many species, including humans."0 -
crazyycatlady1 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I could never afford to eat all organic food. The closest i get is free range eggs (i refuse to buy cage eggs) and chicken.
I make sure my eggs and chicken are organic / cage free. The beef is grass fed. The fish are wild and NEVER farmed. Veggies, whatever is cheaper. The difference is in the protein. I could afford to buy all organic always, but why limit myself to whats available?
I've been working on incorporating fish 4-5 times a week into my diet and the EWG recommends farmed fish for several species. What types of fish do you eat? I'm very new to the whole fish thing so still learning
I'll speak to this.
I'm not much for the organic stuff, but I refuse to buy farmed Atlantic Salmon. Maybe fished farmed in lakes are different, but the impact on wild salmon stocks (especially Pink salmon) from the farming operations is so bad I won't buy farmed Atlantic salmon. Between an increase in lice on the wild fish and numerous other issues, it just is one industry I won't support.
And on the chicken issue.
Do you know why a chicken coop has 2 doors?
Because if it had 4 doors it would be a chicken sedan!3 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I could never afford to eat all organic food. The closest i get is free range eggs (i refuse to buy cage eggs) and chicken.
Same here. There's only one food where I do notice a taste difference between organic and conventional produce, and that's carrots. I will shell out the price difference for those (and I usually buy them in bulk since they store well, it's negligible). Other than that? Not worth the money.0 -
I live in Romania.
All local food is organic.
Tastes better but thats it - no changes in health markers.1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »bienemajamfp wrote: »bienemajamfp wrote: »I eat a lot of USDA organic foods. But not because they are supposedly healthy. IMO they taste much better. Much more flavor and not loaded with added sugars.
So an organic apple has no added sugars, but a non-organic one is loaded with them? Sounds legit.
Eeeehm, did I talk about organic fruits? There are plenty of foods like cereal etc with the organic label, that taste better than regular ones. I don't even eat any fruit!
But that doesn't have anything to do with added sugar...
We have an organic brand of "fruit loops" for the kiddos on Saturday mornings...no less added sugar than actual Fruit Loops.
I used to have to get a lot of those types of things for my son because he had reactions to certain food dyes in regular cereals and the organic cereals used plant based dyes. Those products certainly had plenty of sugar in them!0 -
crazyycatlady1 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I could never afford to eat all organic food. The closest i get is free range eggs (i refuse to buy cage eggs) and chicken.
I make sure my eggs and chicken are organic / cage free. The beef is grass fed. The fish are wild and NEVER farmed. Veggies, whatever is cheaper. The difference is in the protein. I could afford to buy all organic always, but why limit myself to whats available?
I've been working on incorporating fish 4-5 times a week into my diet and the EWG recommends farmed fish for several species. What types of fish do you eat? I'm very new to the whole fish thing so still learning
Here's a good source: https://www.seafoodwatch.org/seafood-recommendations/consumer-guides
Also: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fish/
I eat wild-caught salmon (I grew up in AK and my parents currently live in WA, so it's like a family tradition), but it can be crazy expensive. Trout, which I also eat a lot of, tends to be much cheaper around here (and I will eat farmed rainbow trout). Alaska cod is usually reasonably priced, especially if you get it frozen. I really eat a variety, though.1 -
geneticsteacher wrote: »No difference in nutrition of conventional vs. organic but there IS a difference in pesticide residues.
"They compared the amount of pesticides on each of the Dirty Dozen foods to the chronic reference dose, which is the maximum amount that it's okay to have if you are eating that food every day of your life. This level, just to be safe, is one hundred times less than the amount that experimental animals were able to consume with no effects. It's a pretty big safety margin. So how many of the Dirty Dozen exceeded this extremely conservative chronic reference dose? None:"
"Organic farming uses pesticides too. In fact, here is the National List of pesticides approved for organic certified farms. It includes some fairly toxic substances, like copper sulfate, and many are not restricted in terms of how much a farmer can use. Just because "synthetic" pesticides are more strictly regulated doesn't mean the natural ones are healthier: Back before rotenone was banned, it was allowed on conventional and organic crops alike, since it comes from a plant rather than a synthetic source. Organic pesticides aren't necessarily better for the environment either.
This would be a moot point if we could compare the pesticides found on organic and conventional produce. You'll notice that the EWG only mentions the pesticides found on conventional produce: that's because the USDA doesn't test for organic pesticides."
http://vitals.lifehacker.com/why-you-shouldnt-buy-organic-based-on-the-dirty-dozen-1689190822
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3135239/4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »crazyycatlady1 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I could never afford to eat all organic food. The closest i get is free range eggs (i refuse to buy cage eggs) and chicken.
I make sure my eggs and chicken are organic / cage free. The beef is grass fed. The fish are wild and NEVER farmed. Veggies, whatever is cheaper. The difference is in the protein. I could afford to buy all organic always, but why limit myself to whats available?
I've been working on incorporating fish 4-5 times a week into my diet and the EWG recommends farmed fish for several species. What types of fish do you eat? I'm very new to the whole fish thing so still learning
Here's a good source: https://www.seafoodwatch.org/seafood-recommendations/consumer-guides
Also: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fish/
I eat wild-caught salmon (I grew up in AK and my parents currently live in WA, so it's like a family tradition), but it can be crazy expensive. Trout, which I also eat a lot of, tends to be much cheaper around here (and I will eat farmed rainbow trout). Alaska cod is usually reasonably priced, especially if you get it frozen. I really eat a variety, though.
If I want trout I'll go get it myself. But I'm not that fond of trout so I'm more likely to just go out and torture them then let them go. I'll also catch Kokanee, but those go in the smoker. Can get Perch locally and they get pan fried in butter.0 -
crazyycatlady1 wrote: »ronjsteele1 wrote: »We buy organic or non-GMO (organic has to be non-GMO, but Non-GMO does not have to be organic) as much as possible (which amounts to about 80-90% of the time). We do so to avoid the worst pesticides (organic uses some) and with meat, the hormones and/or antibiotics often given to the animals. If I have to choose local vs. organic, I buy local. But that is almost always "organic" anyway even if they aren't certified (a lot of farmers/people use organic practices but don't want to pay for the organic label - it's expensive). Our beef is local raised, grass fed, non-hormone and antibiotic (we buy a half every year) - but not "organic" by certification. Our chicken is organic only. Our pork is not organic, but local and free range (yes, there is such a thing as free range pigs ). We are very picky. We've seen the pesticides and hormones in produce and meat directly affect the health of family so we are very careful. We grow and preserve as much of our produce as possible (using organic practices) and we have chickens we free range and feed organically for their eggs. To us, organic/Non-GMO foods taste better, but more importantly, our health is affected and we care more about that.
Would you mind sharing how much your weekly grocery bill is eating this way? Back when I did my paleo experiment I really focused on organic/locally raised as much as possible and it doubled our grocery budget-and that was just me eating that way. I can't imagine feeding my family of 5 the way you do, with my $100 a week grocery budget, but maybe there's a way to do it that I'm not thinking of
eta: we do get free eggs from a relative that are free range during the warmer months, unfortunately they slow down producing eggs in the winter so I have to buy eggs at the store (which do have a different taste, yuck!).
Not the OP, but I'm doing mostly local and a fair amount of organic for about $160/week for a family of four including two teenagers, and that includes food for three cats.
All our eggs and most of our meat is bought from the local farmers market. It's not certified organic for a vareity of reasons (which I could go into in a separate post if you really want to understand why small farmers don't always go to the trouble of getting certified). It is certified Animal Welfare approved, though.
Meat prices are generally about 2x what the *cheapest* grocery store option is, but often competitive with the midrange to nicer (non-organic) stuff. Beef is closer to grocery store prices than chicken or pork because of the nature of factory chicken farming vs. truly free-range chicken farming.
So: We don't eat as much meat. We eat meat at least 3-4 times a week and often 5-6 times a week in some form, but the meat is not always served as a big slice of MEAT. I cut it up, I serve it pre-sliced, I stretch it with beans, with cabbage, with grains, with eggs, with nuts, with tofu. When we have MEAT as a main course, the serving pieces are smaller.
The rest of our plate is filled with greens and grains.
Obviously, this does not help in the case of Paleo, but as an overall diet ours is pretty healthy.
We do eat a fair amount of bread, and the other big savings is that we make all the bread we eat. That way it can be sourdough, we use whole grains, etc. We don't bother with organic flour and grains. I do tend to buy organic dried beans, but that's because our grocery chain's nicest dried beans are also organic, and they tend to be fresher, cleaner, and have fewer pantry moth eggs in them than the cheap stuff.
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Tacklewasher wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »crazyycatlady1 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I could never afford to eat all organic food. The closest i get is free range eggs (i refuse to buy cage eggs) and chicken.
I make sure my eggs and chicken are organic / cage free. The beef is grass fed. The fish are wild and NEVER farmed. Veggies, whatever is cheaper. The difference is in the protein. I could afford to buy all organic always, but why limit myself to whats available?
I've been working on incorporating fish 4-5 times a week into my diet and the EWG recommends farmed fish for several species. What types of fish do you eat? I'm very new to the whole fish thing so still learning
Here's a good source: https://www.seafoodwatch.org/seafood-recommendations/consumer-guides
Also: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fish/
I eat wild-caught salmon (I grew up in AK and my parents currently live in WA, so it's like a family tradition), but it can be crazy expensive. Trout, which I also eat a lot of, tends to be much cheaper around here (and I will eat farmed rainbow trout). Alaska cod is usually reasonably priced, especially if you get it frozen. I really eat a variety, though.
If I want trout I'll go get it myself.
I haven't been fishing since I was in my 20s (I admit I never got into it), and I'm certainly not eating anything from the Chicago River or this part of Lake Michigan. I do love trout, though, and know people who will bring me wild caught.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »ronjsteele1 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
This may be a little off subject but suggest to your friend that they put a light in their coop on a timer. Chickens lay less in winter because of the shorter daylight hours. By simply extending the hours with light most chickens will lay daily all year.
We chose not to light ours because it shortens the natural life cycle of the chicken. This is true of beef given rBst to force an Increase in milk production as well. A chicken left to lay on its natural cycle will lay a good 7-8yrs (our oldest layer is going on 9). When they are in light all winter to lay they will usually die around year 4-5 depending on the breed.
Cows will usually live and give milk for about 7-8yrs. When they're forced to produce more with hormones they usually die around year 3-4. And surviving to 4 is rare according to my dairy farming friend (she won't even drink their milk because she said it is so full of puss and junk). Blech! I live in ag country so a lot of people drink raw milk here.
The natural lifespan of a cow is 18-22 years, I thought. Why are these cows dying natural deaths at age 7-8?
You are correct. Sorry about that. I was typing while booking it on the treadmill and not thinking as I went. I should have proofread what I typed before posting. Not sure what I was thinking about as I typed it though (except that I had 7 minutes left on the treadmill when I wrote that answer. LOL. I must have been anxious to get done).
Alas, I am done working out so wanted to confirm you are correct about a cow's natural life span. 0 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »Your question is flawed. Organic and processed are not opposites. Processed food can also be organic, and food in its natural state can be non-organic. Your crackers, cereal and oatmeal are processed regardless of whether they are organic.
^This.
Organic is too expensive for my budget.0
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