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Do you think obese/overweight people should pay more for health insurance?
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SoulRadiation wrote: »I think it would be more logical to do away with the private insurance industry, have national healthcare, and provide tax incentives for living well (healthy weight, non-smoking, etc)...and do so under the justification that this is done to promote the common welfare.
Because we can see what a wonderful job the one-payer system called the Veteran's Administration has done in providing health care?
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MonaLisaLianne wrote: »SoulRadiation wrote: »I think it would be more logical to do away with the private insurance industry, have national healthcare, and provide tax incentives for living well (healthy weight, non-smoking, etc)...and do so under the justification that this is done to promote the common welfare.
Because we can see what a wonderful job the one-payer system called the Veteran's Administration has done in providing health care?
Yes.7 -
MonaLisaLianne wrote: »SoulRadiation wrote: »I think it would be more logical to do away with the private insurance industry, have national healthcare, and provide tax incentives for living well (healthy weight, non-smoking, etc)...and do so under the justification that this is done to promote the common welfare.
Because we can see what a wonderful job the one-payer system called the Veteran's Administration has done in providing health care?
I'm not in favor of single payer, but the VA issue is not really one of single payer. Rather it's single PROVIDER. The two are not necessarily mutually linked. Personally I wish VA would be more like Medicare, the entity that pays the bills and a smaller medical VA that might specialize in medical issues unique to service members and leave more standard stuff to standard providers.9 -
NorthCascades wrote: »I take full responsibility for having a Swiftian perspective on the moralizing about people's weight and desire to penalize them occurring repeatedly on this thread.
Strawman. When a group of people go out to a restaurant, and enjoy a meal, they have to pay for it. Presumably each of them chips in according to what they ordered. That's what we're talking about.
Emotionally charged words like "penalize" them have no place in this.
Are you aware that young men pay more for car insurance than young women, because they're a higher risk group?
Either you've failed to comprehend all I've written, or you don't know what a straw man argument is.
All individuals who need more health care, for any reason, pay more. They pay more in meeting deductibles, they pay more on accumulated co-pays, they pay more in lost work income, they pay more in lost life opportunities. Extra health insurance penalties are not the only way people pay more.
My biggest problem is with people who feel they are righteously indignant at the overweight individuals. One of those people posted on another thread that a person who is a single pound overweight doesn't share moral values with a fit (and not overweight) person.
Are people really talking about statistical averages, or are they talking about individuals? The lines are clearly blurred. There is a high degree of moral asceticism that hearkens back to puritanism among the more staunch supporters of penalizing individuals for belonging to a higher-risk class.11 -
Right... so you won't mind being one of those who waits for 4 years for a hip replacement, I assume.2 -
CatchMom13 wrote: »The fact of the matter is that everyone's situation is different and making people pay more for health insurance simply because some jack-wagon behind a desk thinks that ALL obese people are fat because they're lazy and eat too much is pure ignorance.
It has nothing to do with being lazy. People can lose weight without doing any exercise whatsoever, so I don't know why anyone would think this.
Obese people cost more to insure. It's kind of like when you buy gas for your car, if you buy the higher grade stuff, you're going to pay more for it.
It's just reality.8 -
MonaLisaLianne wrote: »Right... so you won't mind being one of those who waits for 4 years for a hip replacement, I assume.
National health care wouldn't necessitate elimination of a private market...just the general need for it.
I'm afraid of straying off-topic, as we're no longer discussing obesity...only the ramifications of my particular answer to this question which is to answer "yes" to the OP, however framed in a different system/different light...and I respect your opinion if you think it's a terrible idea for either practical or philosophical reasons.7 -
CatchMom13 wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »Yes, obesity greatly increases the risk of developing a wide range of expensive diseases. It's fair that overweight/obese people pay more. Smokers pay more for the same reason. This is no different.
LMAO. Yes, it is actually VERY DIFFERENT. One is 100% a CHOICE. The other is not necessarily.
Unless somebody is tying you up and shoving food down your throat, being obese is a choice. While very few people say "I want to be obese and will eat until I am", MANY people in effect say "I would like to be thin but I want double servings of this pizza and ice cream more".16 -
Not if metrics like bp, a1C, cholesterol and triglycerides are at healthy levels. I will probably never be a 25 or lower bmi. Because of that I do pay higher insurance than others. Here is the funny part, they may have a lower bmi but I eat healthier, workout, walk and am generally much more active than they are.1
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CatchMom13 wrote: »KimbersNewLife wrote: »Yes and I am obese... there are so many illnesses and issues that stem directly from weight. Excess weight is actually listed as a cause on my medical record. I had heart problems when I had my son. My chart says cause of acute event: obesity as a result of high calorie intake... that is what is listed on my medical record as a fact and yes it is my fault and they are correct I was eating too many calories therefore I was over weight. It is frustrating to me that I caused my own major health event and I haven't fixed it yet. But that's another story. I do not know if a penalty would help people not do this to themselves but it's fair because it can offset some of the insurance costs for society as a whole. If this can be done in every case, when the cause of a medical problem is the direct result of dietary decisions unless the weight is caused by another underlying medical issue in which case that person's doctor should work with them to resolve it.... Since you asked ;-)
Excuse the run-on sentences... I am exhausted LOL
That's YOU. Not everyone. I am obese and I'm the healthiest fat girl I know. I come from a family of heart issues, diabetes, hypertension, etc. My numbers are never anywhere close to be a concern for my doctor. My issue is that I have arthritis - 2 kinds. I was actually doing great losing weight (even with PsA) until I developed degenerative osteoarthritis in my spine and then I got the point where I couldn't walk and the weight loss stopped. That's me though. That's MY situation. I can't believe that everyone is like me and you shouldn't believe that everyone is like you.
The fact of the matter is that everyone's situation is different and making people pay more for health insurance simply because some jack-wagon behind a desk thinks that ALL obese people are fat because they're lazy and eat too much is pure ignorance.
You are the healthiest fat girl you know...right now. At some point, if you don't lose weight the odds are that the weight will catch up to you and medical problems will result. I hope I'm wrong for your sake, but the data is not your friend.
My father was the healthiest man I knew...fat or not...until he hit his mid 40's. He never missed a day of work in his life...never needed medical treatment...until he was rushed to the hospital in the middle of the night, had emergency surgery, and was diagnosed with diabetes. He was either overweight or obese...probably obese...and had a crap diet. A few years later came the heart problems. Lots of expensive medications for the rest of his life, two major heart attacks, etc.
He was a GREAT bargain for the insurance company...until he suddenly wasn't.
Excess weight is linked to many, many, many chronic serious diseases. People who are obese are higher risk. That is fact. It is fair that they should pay more as a result.13 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »CatchMom13 wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »Yes, obesity greatly increases the risk of developing a wide range of expensive diseases. It's fair that overweight/obese people pay more. Smokers pay more for the same reason. This is no different.
LMAO. Yes, it is actually VERY DIFFERENT. One is 100% a CHOICE. The other is not necessarily.
Unless somebody is tying you up and shoving food down your throat, being obese is a choice. While very few people say "I want to be obese and will eat until I am", MANY people in effect say "I would like to be thin but I want double servings of this pizza and ice cream more".
Very similar to: I want to be able to not live paycheck to paycheck and gradually save for retirement, but I like the latest smartphone and my new boat more.
Also similar in that you may not feel the consequences of your actions now, but you will in the future. We are a society that seems to value immediate gratification over long term success (also an attitude that a lot of corporations have).11 -
Packerjohn wrote: »I do think they should pay more but not if they are overweight , just obese. I do think it is fair but I also feel there should be more incentives offered to motivate people. I have fought for my health benefits to pay for gym memberships but the issue is that they don't know how they would monitor it and it is possible that everyone would sign up and not go . They do offer courses that give me "wellness credits" that I can apply for gym memberships, running shoes , sports equipment etc but I can only accumulate around $ 140 or so a year . Its better than nothing
Some divisions of my company did this for a while. It was a cluster *kitten*, not fair and dropped. In our case, to get up to a $30 reimbursement you had to have front desk person at the club sign a form or provide a monthly printout of your check in times. If you went 8 times during the month and provided proof you got the $. Of course now way of telling what anyone did there. Someone spending 20 minutes on an elliptical twice a week was getting a benefit, but someone running 5 miles a day outside was most likely in better shape and got no benefit.
I'm a cyclist. I like doing a 40 to 50 mile ride on the weekends when I have time to drive my bike somewhere scenic and away from city traffic. Our corporate wellness program has a step challenge every summer.
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NorthCascades wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »I do think they should pay more but not if they are overweight , just obese. I do think it is fair but I also feel there should be more incentives offered to motivate people. I have fought for my health benefits to pay for gym memberships but the issue is that they don't know how they would monitor it and it is possible that everyone would sign up and not go . They do offer courses that give me "wellness credits" that I can apply for gym memberships, running shoes , sports equipment etc but I can only accumulate around $ 140 or so a year . Its better than nothing
Some divisions of my company did this for a while. It was a cluster *kitten*, not fair and dropped. In our case, to get up to a $30 reimbursement you had to have front desk person at the club sign a form or provide a monthly printout of your check in times. If you went 8 times during the month and provided proof you got the $. Of course now way of telling what anyone did there. Someone spending 20 minutes on an elliptical twice a week was getting a benefit, but someone running 5 miles a day outside was most likely in better shape and got no benefit.
I'm a cyclist. I like doing a 40 to 50 mile ride on the weekends when I have time to drive my bike somewhere scenic and away from city traffic. Our corporate wellness program has a step challenge every summer.
That's cool. Our CEO came out at one point and said, the company pays people enough to join a gym, we don't need to pay for that
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Insurance Companies base rates on lots of factors, BMI is one of them...tobacco use, age, medications, alcohol use, illnesses, history, etc. Prepare to pay more for your rate.1
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Knowing what I know about how added body weight increases the risk of developing so many different diseases, the answer is - of course, if you want to make money as an insurance company, you need to charge more for lifestyle choices that might cause you to have to pay out more for claims.
But, it doesn't really matter. In the USA, we don't really have health insurance anymore anyways. We have a bizarre, needlessly expensive, sometimes cruel, cartelized and highly-government-regulated system we call "insurance," but it's really not. And we're not going to have health insurance in the US ever again anyways.4 -
This is a touchy subject for me because I'm overweight. I'm as healthy as a horse with normal BP and no other health issues but my weight shouldn't require me to pay more for insurance but I can see it from both sides and understand the reasoning behind it if employers did require overweight people to pay more for coverage.
I think if it were a reality and I had to pay more, I'm not sure if it would motivate me to eat like a bird and drop 30 pounds overnight but it would motivate me to work harder than I already am to lose the extra weight.
Great question by the way. It's great to see what people think on this subject.
Oh and as a side note, I work for a large employer in my state and our insurance company just started an incentive program which gives us a break in the cost of our monthly premiums if we voluntarily take part in a program in which we would visit the insurance company's representative, allow them to "screen" us (take blood samples, BP, weight, etc.) and give us feedback on our health and how we can improve it. Call me paranoid but I WOULD NEVER participate in such a program because I value my privacy and don't want the insurance company to come along later and use my voluntarily provided information against me to charge me a higher premium. Just my opinion anyway.
Most likely it's the first step in making the process mandatory, which is the direction a lot of companies are going. Ours started out with incentives and then it transitioned into penalties.0 -
crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »This is a touchy subject for me because I'm overweight. I'm as healthy as a horse with normal BP and no other health issues but my weight shouldn't require me to pay more for insurance but I can see it from both sides and understand the reasoning behind it if employers did require overweight people to pay more for coverage.
I think if it were a reality and I had to pay more, I'm not sure if it would motivate me to eat like a bird and drop 30 pounds overnight but it would motivate me to work harder than I already am to lose the extra weight.
Great question by the way. It's great to see what people think on this subject.
Oh and as a side note, I work for a large employer in my state and our insurance company just started an incentive program which gives us a break in the cost of our monthly premiums if we voluntarily take part in a program in which we would visit the insurance company's representative, allow them to "screen" us (take blood samples, BP, weight, etc.) and give us feedback on our health and how we can improve it. Call me paranoid but I WOULD NEVER participate in such a program because I value my privacy and don't want the insurance company to come along later and use my voluntarily provided information against me to charge me a higher premium. Just my opinion anyway.
Most likely it's the first step in making the process mandatory, which is the direction a lot of companies are going. Ours started out with incentives and then it transitioned into penalties.
We had some self reported "option" questionnaire we had to fill out quarterly to get a "discount" on our premium. Actually it was a penalty for not choosing the option of filling it out. It was on-line and suppose to be anonymous in that they could tell you filled it out to avoid the penality, but your answers were not identified back to you. I didn't worry about it and just filled it in as reasonably accurately as I could. Knew a lot of people who just filled in what they thought would be good answers.
I guess HR is just tends to be a special kind of stupid whereever you go in Corporate America.4 -
It isn't fair that healthy people must pay for the bills of the unhealthy. Having said that, there are some considerations.
Someone who is overweight/obese and does not have any irriversable damage due to their weight, can reverse their condition. Many years ago I lost over 50lbs for free by walking in the park daily. I also quit smoking for free by just telling myself NO. It's a slap in my face when someone tells me it's not possible to help yourself and lose weight/quit smoking without spending money.
That said, if a person has developed other medical conditions that restrict their ability to exercise then they do need extra treatment. But what if they are poor or underpaid? What is the solution?
Well, a payment plan percentage should be applicable (nothing is free) but capped. Any additional funds that need to be covered can be by done so by taxed lotteries. Each state should start a lottery that pays for this group. They already tax lotteries to pay for roads and schooling so why not for medical?
Just a thought.3 -
It isn't fair that healthy people must pay for the bills of the unhealthy. Having said that, there are some considerations.
Someone who is overweight/obese and does not have any irriversable damage due to their weight, can reverse their condition. Many years ago I lost over 50lbs for free by walking in the park daily. I also quit smoking for free by just telling myself NO. It's a slap in my face when someone tells me it's not possible to help yourself and lose weight/quit smoking without spending money.
That said, if a person has developed other medical conditions that restrict their ability to exercise then they do need extra treatment. But what if they are poor or underpaid? What is the solution?
Well, a payment plan percentage should be applicable (nothing is free) but capped. Any additional funds that need to be covered can be by done so by taxed lotteries. Each state should start a lottery that pays for this group. They already tax lotteries to pay for roads and schooling so why not for medical?
Just a thought.
I lost 50lbs without any exercise factored in-just ate at the correct calorie deficit for my weight loss goals. Several years into maintenance now and exercise is still not part of the equation. People can lose weight without exercise-they just need to consume less calories. That should actually save them money as well.5
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