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The pH for dummies infographic is belittling and unhelpful - Rational Discussion about Alkaline Diet

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Replies

  • jessiferrrb
    jessiferrrb Posts: 1,758 Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    I've spent the last two months working with regulators in drafting a warning to the public on the adverse effects of Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) overuse. This was in response to a reported increase of serious adverse effects and death reports. I spent the morning reviewing the autopsy of a 34 year old woman who drank a 1/2 cup of ACV daily and it looks as if her entire gastrointestinal system has been bleached.

    These people all believed, in some manner or fashion, that their diet was too acidic.

    There is no rational discussion regarding an alkaline diet. This is completely irrational.

    woah. that's some serious *kitten*. once you've drafted your warning we should consider making it a sticky.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,878 Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    I've spent the last two months working with regulators in drafting a warning to the public on the adverse effects of Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) overuse. This was in response to a reported increase of serious adverse effects and death reports. I spent the morning reviewing the autopsy of a 34 year old woman who drank a 1/2 cup of ACV daily and it looks as if her entire gastrointestinal system has been bleached.

    These people all believed, in some manner or fashion, that their diet was too acidic.

    There is no rational discussion regarding an alkaline diet. This is completely irrational.

    Wow, I knew it wouldn't work as a weight loss magic bullet but I had no idea it was so risky.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,257 Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    I've spent the last two months working with regulators in drafting a warning to the public on the adverse effects of Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) overuse. This was in response to a reported increase of serious adverse effects and death reports. I spent the morning reviewing the autopsy of a 34 year old woman who drank a 1/2 cup of ACV daily and it looks as if her entire gastrointestinal system has been bleached.

    These people all believed, in some manner or fashion, that their diet was too acidic.

    There is no rational discussion regarding an alkaline diet. This is completely irrational.

    woah. that's some serious *kitten*. once you've drafted your warning we should consider making it a sticky.

    I don't think this will ever get issued to the public. The only reason I got involved was due to my firm manufacturing acetic acid for medical use. I have to forward any and all adverse events to regulatory authorities - the food/supplement industry is under different regulations and does not, so in all likelihood this will be ignored.
  • crackpotbaby
    crackpotbaby Posts: 1,297 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    Ruatine wrote: »
    I'm not a scientist, so I have to do a lot of reading and rereading, and I'm pretty open to multiple interpretations on things that I don't understand. That said, a lot of the studies presented seem to be conflating an "alkaline" diet with a balanced diet. An increase in fruits and vegetables in a diet otherwise lacking them showed positive correlations with decreased disease and morbidity. "No *kitten*, Sherlock!" was my reaction to that.

    I'm very skeptical of diet-induced metabolic acidosis. Mainly because I can't find any major organization discussing it (my go-to for confirmations like that are the Mayo Clinic, CDC, WHO, etc.). Perhaps it's less about the acidity or alkalinity of the diet and more about people meeting their body's micronutrient needs? (Again, I'm not a scientist, so I'm just spitballing here.)

    Hmmm... NIH is not good enough? CDC, NIH, FDA are all under US HHS AFAIK.
    But I found pages from both CDC and Mayo clinic on thiamine deficiency causing it. And others on soy based formula causing it. Those examples are about acute acidosis though and I won't make the mistake of linking any more papers here.

    Agree that it does seem to be about micronutrients (particularly electrolytes).

    So long and thanks for all the fish.

    But again, you are talking here about a balanced diet versus malnourishment, not one that specifically claims to change the pH. The majority of these types of diets (which is part of what makes it a fad diet, IMO) are claimed to be beneficial for everyone, not a subset of people with specific medical needs. No one, I'm aware of recommends obtaining blood work to evaluate their pH prior to undertaking the alkalizing diet. So by what is success measured? In hospital, when patient's are diagnosed with acidosis, they aren't prescribed a dietary change, they are given whatever is needed to change it, depending on the underlying cause. A balanced diet is not going to have a significant impact. A poor diet with excess or lack of specific nutrients, of course, has a considerable impact on health and well-being. That's not specific to an alkalizing diet.

    I'd also think that if this was a huge mainstream issue that ph testing would be a regular thing at your annual physical and wellness checkup. I get a whole host of blood work done annually...to my knowledge my Dr. has never checked my Ph.
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    Ruatine wrote: »
    I'm not a scientist, so I have to do a lot of reading and rereading, and I'm pretty open to multiple interpretations on things that I don't understand. That said, a lot of the studies presented seem to be conflating an "alkaline" diet with a balanced diet. An increase in fruits and vegetables in a diet otherwise lacking them showed positive correlations with decreased disease and morbidity. "No *kitten*, Sherlock!" was my reaction to that.

    I'm very skeptical of diet-induced metabolic acidosis. Mainly because I can't find any major organization discussing it (my go-to for confirmations like that are the Mayo Clinic, CDC, WHO, etc.). Perhaps it's less about the acidity or alkalinity of the diet and more about people meeting their body's micronutrient needs? (Again, I'm not a scientist, so I'm just spitballing here.)

    Hmmm... NIH is not good enough? CDC, NIH, FDA are all under US HHS AFAIK.
    But I found pages from both CDC and Mayo clinic on thiamine deficiency causing it. And others on soy based formula causing it. Those examples are about acute acidosis though and I won't make the mistake of linking any more papers here.

    Agree that it does seem to be about micronutrients (particularly electrolytes).

    So long and thanks for all the fish.

    But again, you are talking here about a balanced diet versus malnourishment, not one that specifically claims to change the pH. The majority of these types of diets (which is part of what makes it a fad diet, IMO) are claimed to be beneficial for everyone, not a subset of people with specific medical needs. No one, I'm aware of recommends obtaining blood work to evaluate their pH prior to undertaking the alkalizing diet. So by what is success measured? In hospital, when patient's are diagnosed with acidosis, they aren't prescribed a dietary change, they are given whatever is needed to change it, depending on the underlying cause. A balanced diet is not going to have a significant impact. A poor diet with excess or lack of specific nutrients, of course, has a considerable impact on health and well-being. That's not specific to an alkalizing diet.

    I'd also think that if this was a huge mainstream issue that ph testing would be a regular thing at your annual physical and wellness checkup. I get a whole host of blood work done annually...to my knowledge my Dr. has never checked my Ph.

    pH is not checked on the routine bloods your GP would do. There is no need.

    If you were in significant acidosis or alkinosis (either respiratory or metabolic) you would likely be in hospital where they would run blood gas tests which would look at your pH in relation to other measures such as the anion gap and oxygen:carbon dioxide partial pressures, bicarbonate levels etc.

    Basically all patients who are critically ill will have blood gases (which include pH measurement) taken regularly.

    It is not really relevant to the general bloods a GP runs though.
  • MissusMoon
    MissusMoon Posts: 1,900 Member
    PH diets ARE for dummies.