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Is counting calories/macros destroying our enjoyment of food?
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princess0lexi wrote: »a lot of things are very high in calories and if i had the higher calorie things i may still be hungry but used up all my calories or have very few left for later.
I don't get what this has to do with OP's question. Surely if one is counting calories one would be sensible about making choices that would be satiating or otherwise wise investments. You are probably more likely to choose high cal things (or not realized they are high cal) if you are not being so obsessive, not paying attention.i try to eat lower calorie foods so i can eat more for the same amount
I sometimes do this too, but not everyone is a volume eater. I used to think I was, but now I think I'm more mixed. Having something satisfying (to me) with more calories can sometimes make me less likely to want to keep eating. (This includes things like cheese, for example, or definitely eggs with the yolk vs. not.)3 -
leanitup123 wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »My constant obsession with calorie counting, hitting protein grams, and avoiding things I feel are not part of a "healthy" diet, are *borderline* unhealthy, and borderline ruin eating for me.
Only borderline. It's a little obsessive but it's nothing that's not controllable and definitely not damaging to me. But it definitely removes a lot if not all of the enjoyment of eating.
But in the same breath I HAD to remove the enjoyment of eating. Enjoying eating is what got me fat. It was comfort, it was reprieve from emotional and sometimes physical distress. It's how I celebrated and how I grieved. It was emotion. I correlated enjoying food with happiness like a heroin junky associates heroin with being happy. I was literally killing myself thinking I was enjoying what I was eating. When I stepped back, and looked at how all that food made me "feel", I didn't actually ever enjoy it. It did nothing but hurt me in the most horrible ways.
I still splurge. I still fall off track. But if we apply the pareto rule, I've removed enjoyment from probably 80% of what I eat now. Some of that is intentional.
That's exactly what this post is getting at -- the obsessive nature of calorie counting.
You mean the obsessive tendencies of some people? To me, calorie counting is not any more obsessive than washing my hands. I wash my hands several times a day, and I do it every time before preparing or eating food. Some people are truly obsessed with washing their hands to the point where it causes them anxiety. This is not the case for me, it's just something I do to minimize my chances of getting sick, and if for some reason I don't have access to water I don't feel anxious and my world doesn't end, it's just that I would rather wash my hands when needed than not.
Similarly, I count calories to minimize my chances of gaining weight. It does not cause me anxiety, and if for some reason I don't have access to the app my world doesn't end, It's just that I would rather count my calories than not. I wouldn't call it an obsession. Diligence maybe? Granted I am "obsessed" in a benign way with my calories because I like numbers and enjoy playing with them and solving number problems. I may go way off the beaten path to figure out the calories in something, use spreadsheets, or even quantify my entire year with calorie calculations, but none of that is done out of anxiety or an uncomfortable compulsion to micromanage.17 -
I don't eat foods I don't like. I think of my food budget like my money budget and stay within my calories. I don't dislike the way I eat but I sure enjoyed my old way of eating much more and would go back to it in a heartbeat if I could.
Some of the differences of opinion may come from a person's starting point and their habitual way of eating within their social structure.
If you use obsessive calorie counting to get underweight, that's a medical problem.
If you use obsessive calorie counting to go from morbidly obese to obese or overweight or normal, the doctors will cheer you on. Society will cheer you on. The only time you'll get negative feedback is if you lose that obsession and regain.3 -
I enjoy my food more for 2 reasons:
1. Because I only have so many calories, I pick what seems worth it. I pay more attention to eating it and it tastes so much better. Quality over quantity.
2. I don't have the guilt that surrounded my eating before. If I'm eating something, I know that I can eat it and still lose the weight.7 -
leanitup123 wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »My constant obsession with calorie counting, hitting protein grams, and avoiding things I feel are not part of a "healthy" diet, are *borderline* unhealthy, and borderline ruin eating for me.
Only borderline. It's a little obsessive but it's nothing that's not controllable and definitely not damaging to me. But it definitely removes a lot if not all of the enjoyment of eating.
But in the same breath I HAD to remove the enjoyment of eating. Enjoying eating is what got me fat. It was comfort, it was reprieve from emotional and sometimes physical distress. It's how I celebrated and how I grieved. It was emotion. I correlated enjoying food with happiness like a heroin junky associates heroin with being happy. I was literally killing myself thinking I was enjoying what I was eating. When I stepped back, and looked at how all that food made me "feel", I didn't actually ever enjoy it. It did nothing but hurt me in the most horrible ways.
I still splurge. I still fall off track. But if we apply the pareto rule, I've removed enjoyment from probably 80% of what I eat now. Some of that is intentional.
That's exactly what this post is getting at -- the obsessive nature of calorie counting.
Getting obsessive about a calorie deficit is a requirement to escape from morbid obesity. Staying obsessive about overall calorie intake/output is a requirement to avoid weight regain plus some extra. The 95% who regain lost weight aren't staying obsessive.
The simplest, most reliable way to maintain calorie control for many people is calorie counting. Obsession is what got me where I am (near my goal weight) and I don't want to lose that obsession. I want to nurture that obsession. I want to be buried in a normal-sized coffin when the time comes.
This isn't obsessive. This is putting a tracking system around an unknown and no different than balancing a checkbook. The advent of smartphones just made calorie counting remarkably easy.
Simply put you identified a quality you wanted to change, developed a plan to change, and implemented this. That isn't obsessive. That is logic in action.12 -
Interesting discussion.
To answer your question, personally calorie / macro counting does not bother me, but I've been doing this since I was a preteen. I can tell you the nutritional information of a lot of foods off hand because I've been doing this off and on for so long.
To me, it's all just information. This food provides these nutrients and this much energy so on and so forth.
One of the things that I have found over the years is I'm going to eat what I want to eat regardless. Now the reasoning behind what I eat and why I eat it may be different. Maybe I'm low on calories for the day or I have a lot of calories so I decide to splurge or I need to meet my protein goal etc or maybe I just wanted to eat that food item.
Doesn't really phase me, but I don't eat foods I don't like. I know some people do eat things they don't enjoy for the sake of maintaining their weight or losing weight, but everything I eat is something I like and truly enjoy so I get the same enjoyment out of it if I'm eating it because I'm low on calories or if I'm eating it because I want to.3 -
leanitup123 wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »My constant obsession with calorie counting, hitting protein grams, and avoiding things I feel are not part of a "healthy" diet, are *borderline* unhealthy, and borderline ruin eating for me.
Only borderline. It's a little obsessive but it's nothing that's not controllable and definitely not damaging to me. But it definitely removes a lot if not all of the enjoyment of eating.
But in the same breath I HAD to remove the enjoyment of eating. Enjoying eating is what got me fat. It was comfort, it was reprieve from emotional and sometimes physical distress. It's how I celebrated and how I grieved. It was emotion. I correlated enjoying food with happiness like a heroin junky associates heroin with being happy. I was literally killing myself thinking I was enjoying what I was eating. When I stepped back, and looked at how all that food made me "feel", I didn't actually ever enjoy it. It did nothing but hurt me in the most horrible ways.
I still splurge. I still fall off track. But if we apply the pareto rule, I've removed enjoyment from probably 80% of what I eat now. Some of that is intentional.
That's exactly what this post is getting at -- the obsessive nature of calorie counting.
Getting obsessive about a calorie deficit is a requirement to escape from morbid obesity. Staying obsessive about overall calorie intake/output is a requirement to avoid weight regain plus some extra. The 95% who regain lost weight aren't staying obsessive.
The simplest, most reliable way to maintain calorie control for many people is calorie counting. Obsession is what got me where I am (near my goal weight) and I don't want to lose that obsession. I want to nurture that obsession. I want to be buried in a normal-sized coffin when the time comes.
This isn't obsessive. This is putting a tracking system around an unknown and no different than balancing a checkbook. The advent of smartphones just made calorie counting remarkably easy.
Simply put you identified a quality you wanted to change, developed a plan to change, and implemented this. That isn't obsessive. That is logic in action.
Some people consider any calorie counting / food measuring obsessive and will give you grief about it. They like my results but feel that I'm doing it wrong and need to move to more intuitive eating. I would find intuitive eating more stressful because I'd not have the framework that calorie counting gives me.
I like amusedmonkey's term diligence. I get some anxiety when I'm in situations where I can't get as accurate a calorie estimate as I like but mostly I like having control over my consumption. I like playing with the numbers and balance of macros.4 -
leanitup123 wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »My constant obsession with calorie counting, hitting protein grams, and avoiding things I feel are not part of a "healthy" diet, are *borderline* unhealthy, and borderline ruin eating for me.
Only borderline. It's a little obsessive but it's nothing that's not controllable and definitely not damaging to me. But it definitely removes a lot if not all of the enjoyment of eating.
But in the same breath I HAD to remove the enjoyment of eating. Enjoying eating is what got me fat. It was comfort, it was reprieve from emotional and sometimes physical distress. It's how I celebrated and how I grieved. It was emotion. I correlated enjoying food with happiness like a heroin junky associates heroin with being happy. I was literally killing myself thinking I was enjoying what I was eating. When I stepped back, and looked at how all that food made me "feel", I didn't actually ever enjoy it. It did nothing but hurt me in the most horrible ways.
I still splurge. I still fall off track. But if we apply the pareto rule, I've removed enjoyment from probably 80% of what I eat now. Some of that is intentional.
That's exactly what this post is getting at -- the obsessive nature of calorie counting.
Getting obsessive about a calorie deficit is a requirement to escape from morbid obesity. Staying obsessive about overall calorie intake/output is a requirement to avoid weight regain plus some extra. The 95% who regain lost weight aren't staying obsessive.
The simplest, most reliable way to maintain calorie control for many people is calorie counting. Obsession is what got me where I am (near my goal weight) and I don't want to lose that obsession. I want to nurture that obsession. I want to be buried in a normal-sized coffin when the time comes.
This isn't obsessive. This is putting a tracking system around an unknown and no different than balancing a checkbook. The advent of smartphones just made calorie counting remarkably easy.
Simply put you identified a quality you wanted to change, developed a plan to change, and implemented this. That isn't obsessive. That is logic in action.
Some people consider any calorie counting / food measuring obsessive and will give you grief about it. They like my results but feel that I'm doing it wrong and need to move to more intuitive eating. I would find intuitive eating more stressful because I'd not have the framework that calorie counting gives me.
I like amusedmonkey's term diligence. I get some anxiety when I'm in situations where I can't get as accurate a calorie estimate as I like but mostly I like having control over my consumption. I like playing with the numbers and balance of macros.
I like to think of issues in terms of the root behaviors. In this case I would frame this as behaviors leading to success vs behaviors leading to failure.
Tracking, trending, acting on accurate data = behaviors leading to success.
Intuition, estimation, acting on no data = behaviors leading to failure.
Not to say that either method is a guarantee of results, but there's a reason why successful people continue to be successful.6 -
leanitup123 wrote: »Interested in hearing your thoughts on this.
I spend a lot of time riding a bike. Cycling outdoors has become like a video game in some ways - stay with me here because there are parallels to food. We all use GPS computers to track where we rode, how fast we were, how many miles we did. There are sections of road and trail that have been designated as races, for the most part you don't know where they are until you ride one, which is like unlocking a secret, then you know exactly where to focus your efforts. In the bike world, there's a lot of similar hand-wringing about whether the GPSs are ruining our enjoyment of cycling.7 -
princess0lexi wrote: »it has and it helped start and make a eating disorder worst, a lot of things are very high in calories and if i had the higher calorie things i may still be hungry but used up all my calories or have very few left for later. i try to eat lower calorie foods so i can eat more for the same amount which means i don`t eat a lot of different cereals because they go over 110 and i know thats silly but its what i go through with and i really don`t like to drink things with calories because i feel that i will not be full and that could of been used on food and there are a lot of other foods i can`t or will not eat because of the calorie count, just to sum it all up its not fun but i can`t stop and life just is not the same.
I have to ask how is that an eating disorder? Just curious.
I don't eat certain things because their calories aren't worth it...for example hotdogs...very rarely will I eat them now because a bun and hotdog just don't make sense for the calories esp when I want to add in bacon etc. I prefer to eat a breast of chicken for less calories...and I won't drink things like regular soda or a milkshake or stuff like that either as the calories just don't make sense to me...I would prefer to eat food thx.
So lots of us do exactly what you describe but don't call it "disordered" but choices.2 -
leanitup123 wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »My constant obsession with calorie counting, hitting protein grams, and avoiding things I feel are not part of a "healthy" diet, are *borderline* unhealthy, and borderline ruin eating for me.
Only borderline. It's a little obsessive but it's nothing that's not controllable and definitely not damaging to me. But it definitely removes a lot if not all of the enjoyment of eating.
But in the same breath I HAD to remove the enjoyment of eating. Enjoying eating is what got me fat. It was comfort, it was reprieve from emotional and sometimes physical distress. It's how I celebrated and how I grieved. It was emotion. I correlated enjoying food with happiness like a heroin junky associates heroin with being happy. I was literally killing myself thinking I was enjoying what I was eating. When I stepped back, and looked at how all that food made me "feel", I didn't actually ever enjoy it. It did nothing but hurt me in the most horrible ways.
I still splurge. I still fall off track. But if we apply the pareto rule, I've removed enjoyment from probably 80% of what I eat now. Some of that is intentional.
That's exactly what this post is getting at -- the obsessive nature of calorie counting.
Getting obsessive about a calorie deficit is a requirement to escape from morbid obesity. Staying obsessive about overall calorie intake/output is a requirement to avoid weight regain plus some extra. The 95% who regain lost weight aren't staying obsessive.
The simplest, most reliable way to maintain calorie control for many people is calorie counting. Obsession is what got me where I am (near my goal weight) and I don't want to lose that obsession. I want to nurture that obsession. I want to be buried in a normal-sized coffin when the time comes.
This isn't obsessive. This is putting a tracking system around an unknown and no different than balancing a checkbook. The advent of smartphones just made calorie counting remarkably easy.
Simply put you identified a quality you wanted to change, developed a plan to change, and implemented this. That isn't obsessive. That is logic in action.
Some people consider any calorie counting / food measuring obsessive and will give you grief about it. They like my results but feel that I'm doing it wrong and need to move to more intuitive eating. I would find intuitive eating more stressful because I'd not have the framework that calorie counting gives me.
I like amusedmonkey's term diligence. I get some anxiety when I'm in situations where I can't get as accurate a calorie estimate as I like but mostly I like having control over my consumption. I like playing with the numbers and balance of macros.
I don't feel counting/scale/logging is obsessive at all...and no one in my life does either...
I agree it's diligence on our part...and to me that is not unhealthy but just makes us aware of what we require to maintain/lose/gain weight.
I mean no one thinks using a calculator/spreadsheet/log book is obsessive for balancing your bank account...4 -
It actually makes me much more mindful of what I am eating and therefore I am appreciating my treats more2
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princess0lexi wrote: »it has and it helped start and make a eating disorder worst, a lot of things are very high in calories and if i had the higher calorie things i may still be hungry but used up all my calories or have very few left for later. i try to eat lower calorie foods so i can eat more for the same amount which means i don`t eat a lot of different cereals because they go over 110 and i know thats silly but its what i go through with and i really don`t like to drink things with calories because i feel that i will not be full and that could of been used on food and there are a lot of other foods i can`t or will not eat because of the calorie count, just to sum it all up its not fun but i can`t stop and life just is not the same.
I have to ask how is that an eating disorder? Just curious.
I don't eat certain things because their calories aren't worth it...for example hotdogs...very rarely will I eat them now because a bun and hotdog just don't make sense for the calories esp when I want to add in bacon etc. I prefer to eat a breast of chicken for less calories...and I won't drink things like regular soda or a milkshake or stuff like that either as the calories just don't make sense to me...I would prefer to eat food thx.
So lots of us do exactly what you describe but don't call it "disordered" but choices.
I would say the difference here is that the previous poster feels disordered about it and you don't. If someone feels what they are doing is disordered and feels they can't stop, it probably is disordered for them.4 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »princess0lexi wrote: »it has and it helped start and make a eating disorder worst, a lot of things are very high in calories and if i had the higher calorie things i may still be hungry but used up all my calories or have very few left for later. i try to eat lower calorie foods so i can eat more for the same amount which means i don`t eat a lot of different cereals because they go over 110 and i know thats silly but its what i go through with and i really don`t like to drink things with calories because i feel that i will not be full and that could of been used on food and there are a lot of other foods i can`t or will not eat because of the calorie count, just to sum it all up its not fun but i can`t stop and life just is not the same.
I have to ask how is that an eating disorder? Just curious.
I don't eat certain things because their calories aren't worth it...for example hotdogs...very rarely will I eat them now because a bun and hotdog just don't make sense for the calories esp when I want to add in bacon etc. I prefer to eat a breast of chicken for less calories...and I won't drink things like regular soda or a milkshake or stuff like that either as the calories just don't make sense to me...I would prefer to eat food thx.
So lots of us do exactly what you describe but don't call it "disordered" but choices.
I would say the difference here is that the previous poster feels disordered about it and you don't. If someone feels what they are doing is disordered and feels they can't stop, it probably is disordered for them.
Hmm maybe by seeing that others do it too might make the poster feel less disordered.
I mean that's normal in a world where you are trying to maintain weight loss or lose weight...-1 -
leanitup123 wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »My constant obsession with calorie counting, hitting protein grams, and avoiding things I feel are not part of a "healthy" diet, are *borderline* unhealthy, and borderline ruin eating for me.
Only borderline. It's a little obsessive but it's nothing that's not controllable and definitely not damaging to me. But it definitely removes a lot if not all of the enjoyment of eating.
But in the same breath I HAD to remove the enjoyment of eating. Enjoying eating is what got me fat. It was comfort, it was reprieve from emotional and sometimes physical distress. It's how I celebrated and how I grieved. It was emotion. I correlated enjoying food with happiness like a heroin junky associates heroin with being happy. I was literally killing myself thinking I was enjoying what I was eating. When I stepped back, and looked at how all that food made me "feel", I didn't actually ever enjoy it. It did nothing but hurt me in the most horrible ways.
I still splurge. I still fall off track. But if we apply the pareto rule, I've removed enjoyment from probably 80% of what I eat now. Some of that is intentional.
That's exactly what this post is getting at -- the obsessive nature of calorie counting.
Getting obsessive about a calorie deficit is a requirement to escape from morbid obesity. Staying obsessive about overall calorie intake/output is a requirement to avoid weight regain plus some extra. The 95% who regain lost weight aren't staying obsessive.
The simplest, most reliable way to maintain calorie control for many people is calorie counting. Obsession is what got me where I am (near my goal weight) and I don't want to lose that obsession. I want to nurture that obsession. I want to be buried in a normal-sized coffin when the time comes.
I disagree that overt calorie counting is needed to maintain weight loss, especially for people who find that it's an unhealthy means of maintaining energy balance.
There are other methods of portion control that can be learned and utilized by those who have issues with obsessive behaviors to maintain healthy weights that are habit/mindfulness based that work very well.
Bear in mind, I'm not one of those people, some form of counting will always suit me and my personality best, but I see no necessity for it in successful maintenance. What I do see a need for is some sort of plan to keep a focus on intake and monitoring one's weight.5 -
leanitup123 wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »My constant obsession with calorie counting, hitting protein grams, and avoiding things I feel are not part of a "healthy" diet, are *borderline* unhealthy, and borderline ruin eating for me.
Only borderline. It's a little obsessive but it's nothing that's not controllable and definitely not damaging to me. But it definitely removes a lot if not all of the enjoyment of eating.
But in the same breath I HAD to remove the enjoyment of eating. Enjoying eating is what got me fat. It was comfort, it was reprieve from emotional and sometimes physical distress. It's how I celebrated and how I grieved. It was emotion. I correlated enjoying food with happiness like a heroin junky associates heroin with being happy. I was literally killing myself thinking I was enjoying what I was eating. When I stepped back, and looked at how all that food made me "feel", I didn't actually ever enjoy it. It did nothing but hurt me in the most horrible ways.
I still splurge. I still fall off track. But if we apply the pareto rule, I've removed enjoyment from probably 80% of what I eat now. Some of that is intentional.
That's exactly what this post is getting at -- the obsessive nature of calorie counting.
Wait... you presume that counting calories is inherently obsessive?
I disagree with that contention, much in the way that I'd disagree with the idea that budgeting one's finances is obsessive.
For some people, anything can become obsessive, of course, even the simple act of washing hands, for example. That doesn't mean that hand washing is inherently problematic, it means that the person has an underlying disorder.
The same is true with calorie counting. Anyone who becomes obsessive about it has underlying issues which the act of counting obviously triggers, it's not the counting itself.
For those of us without issue, it's a perfectly reasonable tool to use to manage our weights in the same way we'd use a budget to manage our finances.
If you or anyone else has a problematic issue with calorie counting, there are other methods of weight management to employ. However, realize that the problem lies with you, not with the method itself.9 -
[1] I think we've possibly come to view food a bit too much as a source of enjoyment rather than for sustenance. Not necessarily a bad thing to not get 'enjoyment' from food now that it is so plentiful, but rather to get enjoyment elsewhere. (food as a main source of enjoyment is how a lot of people get fat).
[2] On those rare occasions when you do make room for a burger or donut or a fine meal, they are so so much more amazing.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »leanitup123 wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »My constant obsession with calorie counting, hitting protein grams, and avoiding things I feel are not part of a "healthy" diet, are *borderline* unhealthy, and borderline ruin eating for me.
Only borderline. It's a little obsessive but it's nothing that's not controllable and definitely not damaging to me. But it definitely removes a lot if not all of the enjoyment of eating.
But in the same breath I HAD to remove the enjoyment of eating. Enjoying eating is what got me fat. It was comfort, it was reprieve from emotional and sometimes physical distress. It's how I celebrated and how I grieved. It was emotion. I correlated enjoying food with happiness like a heroin junky associates heroin with being happy. I was literally killing myself thinking I was enjoying what I was eating. When I stepped back, and looked at how all that food made me "feel", I didn't actually ever enjoy it. It did nothing but hurt me in the most horrible ways.
I still splurge. I still fall off track. But if we apply the pareto rule, I've removed enjoyment from probably 80% of what I eat now. Some of that is intentional.
That's exactly what this post is getting at -- the obsessive nature of calorie counting.
Getting obsessive about a calorie deficit is a requirement to escape from morbid obesity. Staying obsessive about is a requirement to avoid weight regain plus some extra. The 95% who regain lost weight aren't staying obsessive.
The simplest, most reliable way to maintain calorie control for many people is calorie counting. Obsession is what got me where I am (near my goal weight) and I don't want to lose that obsession. I want to nurture that obsession. I want to be buried in a normal-sized coffin when the time comes.
I disagree that overt calorie counting is needed to maintain weight loss, especially for people who find that it's an unhealthy means of maintaining energy balance.
There are other methods of portion control that can be learned and utilized by those who have issues with obsessive behaviors to maintain healthy weights that are habit/mindfulness based that work very well.
Bear in mind, I'm not one of those people, some form of counting will always suit me and my personality best, but I see no necessity for it in successful maintenance. What I do see a need for is some sort of plan to keep a focus on intake and monitoring one's weight.
I didn't say that overt calorie counting was needed for either weight loss or maintenance, but that overall calorie intake/output control is. However a person does it, they do need to stay diligent about it or they're likely to have weight creep.
Each person needs to find what works best for themselves. There's nothing wrong with calorie counting or intuitive eating or any method that's healthy and comfortable for that person.2 -
I still enjoy food.
I also like logging my food.
Maybe I am weird.3 -
I don't particularly enjoy logging my food. It's a bit of a chore. But I enjoy having logged my food. I find it interesting to look at patterns and see how the macros play out.
And I don't think I enjoy the food itself any more or less than I otherwise would. I still get to eat things I really like. And sometimes I eat things that are good for me because I need sustenance. But since I'm paying more attention to what I'm eating I usually don't just eat whatever's around because I'm hungry. So I think planning actually helps me enjoy food more, overall.6
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