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Is Over-Training a myth?
Replies
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this is a stupid conversation. Of course overtraining exists.3
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Just curious on what people's thoughts are on whether or not over-training is a myth or a real thing.
Nope.
I mean, I think when 90% of people say "whew, better take a break, don't wanna risk overtraining!" when they take a night off from their light cardio workouts are misunderstanding what overtraining is... but if you have a serious lifting program it's a real thing.
As other people have mentioned, you can injure yourself if you don't give yourself adequate time to heal and recover between sessions. That's why you're supposed to space out your weight training through mon/wed/fri (or whatever scheme works for you).1 -
Shawshankcan wrote: »It's real, but harder to hit than people think and gets used as an excuse to stay in your comfort zone.
I don't think it is that hard to hit....
new to fitness could do it easily due to lack of knowledge or even those with "issues" using fitness as a crutch not to deal with other issues coudl easily as well.
I see it a lot actually...people going to hard for too long getting sick, hurt and it not being healthy.0 -
Shawshankcan wrote: »It's real, but harder to hit than people think and gets used as an excuse to stay in your comfort zone.
I don't think it is that hard to hit....
new to fitness could do it easily due to lack of knowledge or even those with "issues" using fitness as a crutch not to deal with other issues coudl easily as well.
I see it a lot actually...people going to hard for too long getting sick, hurt and it not being healthy.
That's the real issue right there... the people most likely to encounter it, are utterly unaware that it might be an issue.
Just like the young healthy super active crash dieter who's netting -500 calories for 2-3 weeks and "feels great" Riding that emotion and youth right up until they get smacked in the face with actual significant metabolic adaptation...
"I'm doing everything right... cardio, weight training, cutting calories, eating clean, why am I getting slower and why do I feel like *kitten*"4 -
Shawshankcan wrote: »It's real, but harder to hit than people think and gets used as an excuse to stay in your comfort zone.
I don't think it is that hard to hit....
new to fitness could do it easily due to lack of knowledge or even those with "issues" using fitness as a crutch not to deal with other issues coudl easily as well.
I see it a lot actually...people going to hard for too long getting sick, hurt and it not being healthy.
That's not over training. No one is gonna overtrain from a couple weeks of exercising too hard.5 -
It's real0
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It's real But people often misunderstand it.
An athlete that over trains is at higher risks for injuries, depression, mental break down, infections, elevated heart rate, fatigue and the body might start feeding on the athletes muscles. In the most severe cases over training can be lethal. An olympic competitor is at risk of over training, the crossfit games athlete and the most hardcore and elite athletes in the world could reach a state of overtraining but it's very rare.
You and me however, the normal people, we don't overtrain. What we might do is overtax our nerve system and experience the so called "muscle hangover". It feels like your out of energy and you can't focus. You might lose your sex drive cause your hormones get all messed up.
You're overloaded with Cortisol (stress hormone) and you might lose your gains cause cortisol, estrogens and testosterone are all made by pregnenolone and the more cortisol the less pregnenolone there is to make testosterone.
(I think I got this right but please, if there are more expirienced coaches out there more familiar with this then feel free to correct me and add to this. I'm only beginning my sports studies)
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Shawshankcan wrote: »It's real, but harder to hit than people think and gets used as an excuse to stay in your comfort zone.
I don't think it is that hard to hit....
new to fitness could do it easily due to lack of knowledge or even those with "issues" using fitness as a crutch not to deal with other issues coudl easily as well.
I see it a lot actually...people going to hard for too long getting sick, hurt and it not being healthy.
That's not over training. No one is gonna overtrain from a couple weeks of exercising too hard.
where did I say a couple of weeks?
I see people over training for a variety of reasons...those are two of them.
People so focused on getting fit but so ignorant of their own bodies they do over train.
or
People with issues like OCD or OCT or anxiety or depression or control issues using fitness as an outlet often overtax and end up hurt or sick or both. They take one issue and turn it to fitness thinking it's a healthier outlet when in fact it is not when done incorrectly.
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stanmann571 wrote: »That's the real issue right there... the people most likely to encounter it, are utterly unaware that it might be an issue.
Just like the young healthy super active crash dieter who's netting -500 calories for 2-3 weeks and "feels great" Riding that emotion and youth right up until they get smacked in the face with actual significant metabolic adaptation...
"I'm doing everything right... cardio, weight training, cutting calories, eating clean, why am I getting slower and why do I feel like *kitten*"Shawshankcan wrote: »It's real, but harder to hit than people think and gets used as an excuse to stay in your comfort zone.
I don't think it is that hard to hit....
new to fitness could do it easily due to lack of knowledge or even those with "issues" using fitness as a crutch not to deal with other issues coudl easily as well.
I see it a lot actually...people going to hard for too long getting sick, hurt and it not being healthy.
That's not over training. No one is gonna overtrain from a couple weeks of exercising too hard.
where did I say a couple of weeks?
I see people over training for a variety of reasons...those are two of them.
People so focused on getting fit but so ignorant of their own bodies they do over train.
or
People with issues like OCD or OCT or anxiety or depression or control issues using fitness as an outlet often overtax and end up hurt or sick or both. They take one issue and turn it to fitness thinking it's a healthier outlet when in fact it is not when done incorrectly.
I think he was trying to respond to me. And it certainly can happen in a couple weeks when combined with other over exuberant/OCD diet behaviors.
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Relax_Its_Just_Burpees wrote: »It's real But people often misunderstand it.
An athlete that over trains is at higher risks for injuries, depression, mental break down, infections, elevated heart rate, fatigue and the body might start feeding on the athletes muscles. In the most severe cases over training can be lethal. An olympic competitor is at risk of over training, the crossfit games athlete and the most hardcore and elite athletes in the world could reach a state of overtraining but it's very rare.
You and me however, the normal people, we don't overtrain. What we might do is overtax our nerve system and experience the so called "muscle hangover". It feels like your out of energy and you can't focus. You might lose your sex drive cause your hormones get all messed up.
You're overloaded with Cortisol (stress hormone) and you might lose your gains cause cortisol, estrogens and testosterone are all made by pregnenolone and the more cortisol the less pregnenolone there is to make testosterone.
(I think I got this right but please, if there are more expirienced coaches out there more familiar with this then feel free to correct me and add to this. I'm only beginning my sports studies)
I just read something similar on TNation (not my fav source but was a good article) and it referenced Over training vs Over taxing.
But I think for us laymen overtraining=overtaxing for what it's worth.
Over training syndrome yes would be for elite athletes but I've seen people with symptoms of over training such as
injuries (too common imo due to ignorance of what a body can/should do and form)
depression
break downs (big time)
nastiness/irritable
infections/illness
fatigue
lack of sex drive which leads to lack of erection in the morning for men (per the article)
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spartan546 wrote: »But let's also add that what is over training for one person can be a warm up for the next one... Depends on so many factors and sport exoeriences that it has to be based on individual issues. That's when a good coach or trainer will look at an athlete and say " let's deload a little"....☺️
while I agree it will be different for each person... "over training is someone's warm up" is a fairly inaccurate way to share that information.0 -
ThePoeToaster wrote: »this is a stupid conversation. Of course overtraining exists.
given the amount of disagreement on what we call over training- it's not a stupid conversation.
Some people don't know that it DOES exist.
And some people do- but have no idea what it means.
It's not a dumb conversation if you have all the information and know everything- but for the rest of the world- trying to understand everything- AND how to properly train themselves- and or work with others- it's important.
You are free to post else where on the forum if we bore you.4 -
Relax_Its_Just_Burpees wrote: »It's real But people often misunderstand it.
An athlete that over trains is at higher risks for injuries, depression, mental break down, infections, elevated heart rate, fatigue and the body might start feeding on the athletes muscles. In the most severe cases over training can be lethal. An olympic competitor is at risk of over training, the crossfit games athlete and the most hardcore and elite athletes in the world could reach a state of overtraining but it's very rare.
You and me however, the normal people, we don't overtrain. What we might do is overtax our nerve system and experience the so called "muscle hangover". It feels like your out of energy and you can't focus. You might lose your sex drive cause your hormones get all messed up.
You're overloaded with Cortisol (stress hormone) and you might lose your gains cause cortisol, estrogens and testosterone are all made by pregnenolone and the more cortisol the less pregnenolone there is to make testosterone.
(I think I got this right but please, if there are more expirienced coaches out there more familiar with this then feel free to correct me and add to this. I'm only beginning my sports studies)
I just read something similar on TNation (not my fav source but was a good article) and it referenced Over training vs Over taxing.
But I think for us laymen overtraining=overtaxing for what it's worth.
Over training syndrome yes would be for elite athletes but I've seen people with symptoms of over training such as
injuries (too common imo due to ignorance of what a body can/should do and form)
depression
break downs (big time)
nastiness/irritable
infections/illness
fatigue
lack of sex drive which leads to lack of erection in the morning for men (per the article)
If those are your symptoms, it's serious, no matter what you call it... and since training is a significant factor... I'm good with calling it overtraining.3 -
AdamTexasRanger wrote: »Too much of anything can be bad
well....0 -
For me it is just hard to tell when I have over-trained. For example. I just had an eight mile Spartan race on the first really hot day of the year and didn't train in the heat prior. I tapered off my training and took two full days off before the race. I felt okay during and immediately after, but was wiped out for about three days. After the 3 days of only light recovery workouts, I hit two days of training outside in 90 degree weather. Now I am wiped out again. Is it over-training? Dehydration? Lack of heat training? I strongly believe in taking the right amount of recovery time, but with another big race coming up I can't afford to take rest days I don't need. For a lot of people, it takes just as much discipline to take rest days as it does to workout, and I understand that the body builds during rest periods. I have been doing this for five years, so I don't think my fitness level has anything to do with it. The deeper you get into fitness the more complicated it becomes to figure all this stuff out!
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carolyn000000 wrote: »For me it is just hard to tell when I have over-trained. For example. I just had an eight mile Spartan race on the first really hot day of the year and didn't train in the heat prior. I tapered off my training and took two full days off before the race. I felt okay during and immediately after, but was wiped out for about three days. After the 3 days of only light recovery workouts, I hit two days of training outside in 90 degree weather. Now I am wiped out again. Is it over-training? Dehydration? Lack of heat training? I strongly believe in taking the right amount of recovery time, but with another big race coming up I can't afford to take rest days I don't need. For a lot of people, it takes just as much discipline to take rest days as it does to workout, and I understand that the body builds during rest periods. I have been doing this for five years, so I don't think my fitness level has anything to do with it. The deeper you get into fitness the more complicated it becomes to figure all this stuff out!
It sounds like acclimatization more than overtraining. Hydration may be a factor.
Instead of full rest days, try reducing the workload on your outside training days... either intensity or duration.. but not both.. In other words if you're schedule says 6 miles in an hour... either do 4 miles in an hour or do 6 miles in 90 minutes... Just as a hypothetical example.
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I think part of the issue on this thread is that different people ascribe somewhat different meanings to the term "overtraining". You can't reasonably talk about whether something is a myth, or how common it is, while using different definitions of the thing itself.
There are lots of different ways in which someone can do too much, and they may arrive there from different starting points (different levels of initial fitness is only one aspect). There are many potential outcomes, from mental burnout alone; to literal failure to respond positively, in physical terms, to additional training stimulus; to cases of injury, immune system compromise, etc.
Does "overtraining" refer to all forms of "doing too much", when athletic/exercise activity is involved, irrespective of starting point or symptoms?
Personally, I'd tend to limit the term to cases of somewhat well-trained people who have no positive response, and some negative physical symptoms, when they further increase training stimulus. I think of it as more a technical term.
To me, someone new to exercise who attempts too much (without gradually building up conditioning), possibly in conjunction with a steep calorie deficit . . . that's a more commonplace sense of overdoing. Just my take, though.
An old page from my visual journal:
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I think part of the issue on this thread is that different people ascribe somewhat different meanings to the term "overtraining". You can't reasonably talk about whether something is a myth, or how common it is, while using different definitions of the thing itself.
There are lots of different ways in which someone can do too much, and they may arrive there from different starting points (different levels of initial fitness is only one aspect). There are many potential outcomes, from mental burnout alone; to literal failure to respond positively, in physical terms, to additional training stimulus; to cases of injury, immune system compromise, etc.
Does "overtraining" refer to all forms of "doing too much", when athletic/exercise activity is involved, irrespective of starting point or symptoms?
Personally, I'd tend to limit the term to cases of somewhat well-trained people who have no positive response, and some negative physical symptoms, when they further increase training stimulus. I think of it as more a technical term.
To me, someone new to exercise who attempts too much (without gradually building up conditioning), possibly in conjunction with a steep calorie deficit . . . that's a more commonplace sense of overdoing. Just my take, though.
An old page from my visual journal:
I would absolutely agree with this. Insofar as I have always seen it used (by people actually qualified to have an opinion on the matter), overtraining is a state arrived at by way of an extensive and extended period of overreaching, that ends up resulting in reduced performance, negative adaptations, and hormonal imbalances. It is not, and will never be "newbie hurt his glutes by training hip thrusters six days in a row".6 -
I'd say yes and no. Most people don't work hard enough to over train. Most people who do get "over trained" are usually just training wrong.
I do believe that you can't lift heavy week in week out. E.g. Low rep high weight. You'll fry your central nervous system.4 -
Yes it's real but dont let that be an excuse to hold yourself back in a gym. Alot of people dont get where theyre going without pushing themselves past their breaking point everynow and then, but rest up, keep your nutrtion on point and you will be able to increase that "overtraining" threshold further0
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I think part of the issue on this thread is that different people ascribe somewhat different meanings to the term "overtraining". You can't reasonably talk about whether something is a myth, or how common it is, while using different definitions of the thing itself.
There are lots of different ways in which someone can do too much, and they may arrive there from different starting points (different levels of initial fitness is only one aspect). There are many potential outcomes, from mental burnout alone; to literal failure to respond positively, in physical terms, to additional training stimulus; to cases of injury, immune system compromise, etc.
Does "overtraining" refer to all forms of "doing too much", when athletic/exercise activity is involved, irrespective of starting point or symptoms?
Personally, I'd tend to limit the term to cases of somewhat well-trained people who have no positive response, and some negative physical symptoms, when they further increase training stimulus. I think of it as more a technical term.
To me, someone new to exercise who attempts too much (without gradually building up conditioning), possibly in conjunction with a steep calorie deficit . . . that's a more commonplace sense of overdoing. Just my take, though.
An old page from my visual journal:
I would absolutely agree with this. Insofar as I have always seen it used (by people actually qualified to have an opinion on the matter), overtraining is a state arrived at by way of an extensive and extended period of overreaching, that ends up resulting in reduced performance, negative adaptations, and hormonal imbalances. It is not, and will never be "newbie hurt his glutes by training hip thrusters six days in a row".
Yes, that's how I understand overtraining.
(And yes to Ann's post also.)1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I think part of the issue on this thread is that different people ascribe somewhat different meanings to the term "overtraining". You can't reasonably talk about whether something is a myth, or how common it is, while using different definitions of the thing itself.
There are lots of different ways in which someone can do too much, and they may arrive there from different starting points (different levels of initial fitness is only one aspect). There are many potential outcomes, from mental burnout alone; to literal failure to respond positively, in physical terms, to additional training stimulus; to cases of injury, immune system compromise, etc.
Does "overtraining" refer to all forms of "doing too much", when athletic/exercise activity is involved, irrespective of starting point or symptoms?
Personally, I'd tend to limit the term to cases of somewhat well-trained people who have no positive response, and some negative physical symptoms, when they further increase training stimulus. I think of it as more a technical term.
To me, someone new to exercise who attempts too much (without gradually building up conditioning), possibly in conjunction with a steep calorie deficit . . . that's a more commonplace sense of overdoing. Just my take, though.
An old page from my visual journal:
I would absolutely agree with this. Insofar as I have always seen it used (by people actually qualified to have an opinion on the matter), overtraining is a state arrived at by way of an extensive and extended period of overreaching, that ends up resulting in reduced performance, negative adaptations, and hormonal imbalances. It is not, and will never be "newbie hurt his glutes by training hip thrusters six days in a row".
much head nodding going on here.0 -
It's not a myth but unless your pushing it harder than boot camp or a Arizona cardinalstraining camp you will recognize you suddenly start to walk slower lift less and feel worse and start to pull it back a bit it's good to push yourself there once in a while to know your not undertraining i was walking three 1 hour walks a day I got up to 3.5mph and 10% for all 3 hours and my feet just shut me down so I went to 3mph and 10% and my body still said no so I went to 3mph no incline then I gained 5lbs now I'm at 3mph 10% for 1 and it's going well might drop to 45 min since I want to see 8% body fat by August and I'm dropping calories1
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I think MFP had a strange group definition of what a myth is. Overtraining is a myth because it only happens to some people. By that logic, being audited by the IRS is a myth. And weight loss is a myth since most people pack on the pounds over their lifetimes.
Overtraining is a real thing; apparently it's also a myth.0 -
Who said it's a myth? I mean, since that person is apparently speaking for MFP as a group and all, even though the vast majority of responses were no, it's not a myth.4
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I've been in the hospital before because of it.0
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thickspo91 wrote: »I've been in the hospital before because of it.
Care to expand a bit?
I could drop the bar on my head during BTNPPs and end up in the ER. That doesn't mean that I was overtrained; just happened to miss the groove on the drop.
I could fall out while training during a weight cut. That doesn't mean that I was overtrained; I just allowed my dehydration to get a bit over the line for pairing with hard training stimulus.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »thickspo91 wrote: »I've been in the hospital before because of it.
Care to expand a bit?
I could drop the bar on my head during BTNPPs and end up in the ER. That doesn't mean that I was overtrained; just happened to miss the groove on the drop.
I could fall out while training during a weight cut. That doesn't mean that I was overtrained; I just allowed my dehydration to get a bit over the line for pairing with hard training stimulus.
Without knowing the story, I would assume it was meant to be extreme dehydration, or REALLY poor nutrition, as in an eating disorder.0 -
Yeah, fainting because you're dehydrated, underfed and/or over-tired isn't overtraining. It's just not fuelling and resting your body well enough for the activity you're asking it to do. People faint in fitness classes pretty frequently because of some or all of the above. They're certainly not overtraining.0
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NorthCascades wrote: »I think MFP had a strange group definition of what a myth is. Overtraining is a myth because it only happens to some people. By that logic, being audited by the IRS is a myth. And weight loss is a myth since most people pack on the pounds over their lifetimes.
Overtraining is a real thing; apparently it's also a myth.
The mythical part is people below elite levels aren't over-training, they're under-recovered.0
This discussion has been closed.
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