Not eating enough, lesson learned

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  • Silentpadna
    Silentpadna Posts: 1,306 Member
    edited June 2017
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    jardane1 wrote: »
    Tomk652015 wrote: »
    The same thing happened to me. I had my calories set high when I first started counting and the weight was dropping off. I was eating the same foods, and working out the same. When I dropped my calorie goal my weight slowed and then stopped all together. I was still eating the same healthy foods, exercising the same amount but the weight wouldn't come off. Once I bumped it back up to my initial calorie goal, the weight started coming off again!

    something else at play here to cause that. the greater the calorie deficit you are under, the more you will lose. its just simple math. there are a lot of factors but math is math. caveat....you have to do the math correctly.

    The human body is complex, it's not just math.

    Actually it is just math.

    The math is complex because the body is complex, but math (and proven science) is always true regardless of our opinion of it.

    Now we substitute the complex with simpler estimates and inaccurate (by their very nature) measurements. So although we sometimes think we are showing that the math doesn't work, that's not what we are actually showing. What we are showing in cases like yours is that our estimates don't always work either because they are inaccurate or our measurements are. But it ain't the math.
  • clicketykeys
    clicketykeys Posts: 6,568 Member
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    toxikon wrote: »
    Starvation mode is a myth - the fewer calories under your TDEE you eat, the more weight you will lose. Period.

    There are a few things that might've prevented you from losing weight, and it's not "starvation mode":
    - Inaccurate tracking (not using a food scale, not using reliable MFP database entries, forgetting to log)
    - Water weight (from starting a new exercise routine, consuming a lot of salt, stress, etc.)
    - Constipation
    - Normal weight fluctuations (weight goes up and down due to all kinds of causes, so if you weigh yourself on the 'wrong' day you could think you're not losing)
    - Unreliable bathroom scale

    With that said - the goal of weight loss is creating sustainable habits, not crash dieting. Your body needs a certain amount of nutrients (based on your gender, weight, height, activity level) and if you don't get enough of those nutrients, you can have some nasty side effects, like losing your hair or passing out.

    The goal of losing weight should always be slow and steady - eat enough calories to feel good (not ravenous all the time), and lose 0.5-2lbs a week (once again, depending on your gender, height, weight and activity level).

    Starvation mode, as it is typically described on here, is a myth. However, if you eat at a deficit that is too high, you will probably experience milder-yet-still-unpleasant side effects (lethargy, irritability, feeling light-headed) before the really nasty ones. And when you're tired and grouchy and you just feel like crap, it's that much more difficult to maintain the same level of physical activity as you did before.

    Additionally, if you feel that awful, it's likely to FEEL like you've been cutting calories for, like, a REALLY REALLY LONG TIME. Like... WEEKS. Sorry to have to say this, but "weeks" isn't a long time when it comes to keeping the weight off. Presumably, you'll want to do that for the rest of your life. And I sure hope that's more than "weeks" or even "months!"

    So in that sense, it does make weight loss "harder," but at the same time, it doesn't negate CICO.
  • dfwesq
    dfwesq Posts: 592 Member
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    SezxyStef wrote: »
    jardane1 wrote: »
    Well, i think I found out why I was not losing and even gaining at times, I was not eating enough. I was eating 1000 calories below the highest weight loss setting in my fitness pall. For weeks I was not losing weight and I had no idea why i lost a lot when I starting cutting lower but it stalled. So, I am trying to eat my full recommended intake and after eating so few calories it feels indulgent lol. It worked and am losing weight gain, I guess I was curing to low and my body felt like it was starving.

    Lesson learned.

    To the OP and the rest who have a similar experience...sorry but the bolded parts are just not possible with the science we have now and have had for centuries...aka people actually starving...

    YOu can't stall or gain on a calorie deficit unless it is "water weight" brought on by sodium, increased exercise or cortisol (stress hormone.)

    It can appear that by eating more you are losing faster but in reality you have relieved your body of water weight by getting rid of the low calorie stresses...new exercise is no longer new and you have more energy to exercise maybe just a bit more or move just a bit more.

    Even in this OP it states "I lost a lot when I started cutting even lower" which makes sense...the stall makes sense too...cortisol...water retention...

    Other factors come into play as well...when you first start counting calories without being accurate by using a food scale and "guesstimating" you typically are eating more than you think...then you cut even lower and start losing but easily go back ot the bad estimates...then as you increase your calories you subconsiously choose smaller portions so in fact when you were logging 1200 your were probably eating closer to 1600-1800 and then as you start logging 1600 you are actually 1200-1400...which is one scenario.

    Another scenario is that you are eating too little and are tired and not moving as much as you think...your hungry...your body is stressed and you start holding onto water weight.
    Three of us (OP, a second poster, and me) reported similar experiences. If you believe CICO is valid, then it's not fewer calories that leads to fat loss - it's a bigger deficit. If for some reason CO decreased at the same time CI did, that would explain why we either weren't losing fat, or why we were only losing very slowly.

    Just to respond to things others have said, none of us said were anorexic or actually starving, just that we were eating very low calorie diets. The results in extreme cases don't necessarily predict what is likely to happen in more moderate circumstances. And none of us said we were getting fatter on fewer calories. I can't speak for the other two, but the theories about me actually eating more than I thought I was, or it all being water weight are wrong. I was keeping track of my eating the same way before as I am now, and I was on a much more restrictive diet then than I am now. During the 6 months I was losing weight extremely slowly, it definitely wasn't water weight. And I didn't lose 30 pounds of water weight since then.

    The most scientific approach, it seems to me, would be to accept the data we have, instead of rejecting the data because it doesn't fit our hypothesis.
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,268 Member
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    dfwesq wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    jardane1 wrote: »
    Well, i think I found out why I was not losing and even gaining at times, I was not eating enough. I was eating 1000 calories below the highest weight loss setting in my fitness pall. For weeks I was not losing weight and I had no idea why i lost a lot when I starting cutting lower but it stalled. So, I am trying to eat my full recommended intake and after eating so few calories it feels indulgent lol. It worked and am losing weight gain, I guess I was curing to low and my body felt like it was starving.

    Lesson learned.

    To the OP and the rest who have a similar experience...sorry but the bolded parts are just not possible with the science we have now and have had for centuries...aka people actually starving...

    YOu can't stall or gain on a calorie deficit unless it is "water weight" brought on by sodium, increased exercise or cortisol (stress hormone.)

    It can appear that by eating more you are losing faster but in reality you have relieved your body of water weight by getting rid of the low calorie stresses...new exercise is no longer new and you have more energy to exercise maybe just a bit more or move just a bit more.

    Even in this OP it states "I lost a lot when I started cutting even lower" which makes sense...the stall makes sense too...cortisol...water retention...

    Other factors come into play as well...when you first start counting calories without being accurate by using a food scale and "guesstimating" you typically are eating more than you think...then you cut even lower and start losing but easily go back ot the bad estimates...then as you increase your calories you subconsiously choose smaller portions so in fact when you were logging 1200 your were probably eating closer to 1600-1800 and then as you start logging 1600 you are actually 1200-1400...which is one scenario.

    Another scenario is that you are eating too little and are tired and not moving as much as you think...your hungry...your body is stressed and you start holding onto water weight.
    Three of us (OP, a second poster, and me) reported similar experiences. If you believe CICO is valid, then it's not fewer calories that leads to fat loss - it's a bigger deficit. If for some reason CO decreased at the same time CI did, that would explain why we either weren't losing fat, or why we were only losing very slowly.

    Just to respond to things others have said, none of us said were anorexic or actually starving, just that we were eating very low calorie diets. The results in extreme cases don't necessarily predict what is likely to happen in more moderate circumstances. And none of us said we were getting fatter on fewer calories. I can't speak for the other two, but the theories about me actually eating more than I thought I was, or it all being water weight are wrong. I was keeping track of my eating the same way before as I am now, and I was on a much more restrictive diet then than I am now. During the 6 months I was losing weight extremely slowly, it definitely wasn't water weight. And I didn't lose 30 pounds of water weight since then.

    The most scientific approach, it seems to me, would be to accept the data we have, instead of rejecting the data because it doesn't fit our hypothesis.

    Actually the OP did...the quote was "not losing and even gaining at times, I was not eating enough"

    Which I addressed as not being valid.

    As for stalling on a deficit which is what I said wasn't valid...you can't. If you are in a deficit you won't stall.

    CICO is valid proven by science and centuries of starvation...I never once said it was "fewer calories"

    I indicated what could cause you to think you could eat more and lose weight but it still doesn't invalidate CICO.

    causation vs correlation comes into play and n=1 is not science
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,669 Member
    edited June 2017
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    dfwesq wrote: »
    If you believe CICO is valid, then it's not fewer calories that leads to fat loss - it's a bigger deficit. If for some reason CO decreased at the same time CI did, that would explain why we either weren't losing fat, or why we were only losing very slowly.

    While I do not feel that adaptive thermogenesis is the answer to everything, I also don't understand why it is so readily dismissed as either flat out impossible or always inconsequential by a number of frequent posters.

    In any case, the thread reference is sitting in the middle of the most helpful posts links at the beginning of this forum section: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1077746/starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss/p1
  • try2again
    try2again Posts: 3,562 Member
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    PAV8888 wrote: »
    dfwesq wrote: »
    If you believe CICO is valid, then it's not fewer calories that leads to fat loss - it's a bigger deficit. If for some reason CO decreased at the same time CI did, that would explain why we either weren't losing fat, or why we were only losing very slowly.

    While I do not feel that adaptive thermogenesis is the answer to everything, I also don't understand why it is so readily dismissed as either flat out impossible or always inconsequential by a number of frequent posters.

    In any case, the thread reference is sitting in the middle of the most helpful posts links at the beginning of this forum section: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1077746/starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss/p1

    Isn't it the idea that, when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras? That adaptive thermogenesis isn't the most probable issue for the majority of casual posters? Thank you for the link, BTW, as I personally didn't know that much about it. :)
  • dfwesq
    dfwesq Posts: 592 Member
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    dfwesq wrote: »
    jardane1 wrote: »
    Well, i think I found out why I was not losing and even gaining at times, I was not eating enough. I was eating 1000 calories below the highest weight loss setting in my fitness pall. For weeks I was not losing weight and I had no idea why i lost a lot when I starting cutting lower but it stalled. So, I am trying to eat my full recommended intake and after eating so few calories it feels indulgent lol. It worked and am losing weight gain, I guess I was curing to low and my body felt like it was starving.

    Lesson learned.

    Wrong. You don't lose weight by eating MORE. Nope nope nope. Not happening. ;)

    And yet we have several examples of it happening. It happened to me.

    Maybe there are explanations for that you haven't thought of? For example, maybe when we raised our caloric intake, we had more energy and we became more active? I'm not talking about exercising more, but the kind of activity someone might do unconsciously or involuntarily. That's one possibility, anyway.

    Then it didn't happen by "eating more" did it. You won't lose weight by consuming a greater number of calories, all other factors remaining the same. That's a no brainer.
    The bolded part was just a hypothesis. I don't know whether that was the reason, or whether it was something else. The point is, it happened and all evidence points to it being caused in some way by taking in more calories. Just how that happened, I can't say for sure nor could my doctor.
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,669 Member
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    dfwesq wrote: »
    [While we know a few things that can cause CO to go up or down, we don't know everything. It's also not feasible to measure CO in someone long-term.

    While I generally (obviously) agree with many of the points you raise I am curious as to why it is not feasible to measure CO in someone long-term?

    if you can measure CO at any point of time you can continue measuring it the same way. This is no different than saying we can't measure CI because foods have a 20% error or what have you.

    The reality is that more or less we CAN measure CI, CO, and weight level OVER TIME.

    Is it 100% accurate? Absolutely not... but it is close enough to be useful with some effort.
  • Pusheenthecat
    Pusheenthecat Posts: 20 Member
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    I like your steampunk gear! I make steampunk costumes myself
  • fitmom4lifemfp
    fitmom4lifemfp Posts: 1,575 Member
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    dfwesq wrote: »
    dfwesq wrote: »
    jardane1 wrote: »
    Well, i think I found out why I was not losing and even gaining at times, I was not eating enough. I was eating 1000 calories below the highest weight loss setting in my fitness pall. For weeks I was not losing weight and I had no idea why i lost a lot when I starting cutting lower but it stalled. So, I am trying to eat my full recommended intake and after eating so few calories it feels indulgent lol. It worked and am losing weight gain, I guess I was curing to low and my body felt like it was starving.

    Lesson learned.

    Wrong. You don't lose weight by eating MORE. Nope nope nope. Not happening. ;)

    And yet we have several examples of it happening. It happened to me.

    Maybe there are explanations for that you haven't thought of? For example, maybe when we raised our caloric intake, we had more energy and we became more active? I'm not talking about exercising more, but the kind of activity someone might do unconsciously or involuntarily. That's one possibility, anyway.

    Then it didn't happen by "eating more" did it. You won't lose weight by consuming a greater number of calories, all other factors remaining the same. That's a no brainer.
    The bolded part was just a hypothesis. I don't know whether that was the reason, or whether it was something else. The point is, it happened and all evidence points to it being caused in some way by taking in more calories. Just how that happened, I can't say for sure nor could my doctor.

    The "evidence" doesn't point to anything of the kind. Unless you spent the week in a lab that recorded your activities and eating, you have no evidence. The only way you can lose weight is if you are burning more calories than you are consuming (barring medical issues of course).
  • jseams1234
    jseams1234 Posts: 1,216 Member
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    It's magic folks - some people pull fuel out of the air they breath. The could stop eating completely and maintain on purified water. rofl
  • dfwesq
    dfwesq Posts: 592 Member
    edited June 2017
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    dfwesq wrote: »
    dfwesq wrote: »
    jardane1 wrote: »
    Well, i think I found out why I was not losing and even gaining at times, I was not eating enough. I was eating 1000 calories below the highest weight loss setting in my fitness pall. For weeks I was not losing weight and I had no idea why i lost a lot when I starting cutting lower but it stalled. So, I am trying to eat my full recommended intake and after eating so few calories it feels indulgent lol. It worked and am losing weight gain, I guess I was curing to low and my body felt like it was starving.

    Lesson learned.

    Wrong. You don't lose weight by eating MORE. Nope nope nope. Not happening. ;)

    And yet we have several examples of it happening. It happened to me.

    Maybe there are explanations for that you haven't thought of? For example, maybe when we raised our caloric intake, we had more energy and we became more active? I'm not talking about exercising more, but the kind of activity someone might do unconsciously or involuntarily. That's one possibility, anyway.

    Then it didn't happen by "eating more" did it. You won't lose weight by consuming a greater number of calories, all other factors remaining the same. That's a no brainer.
    The bolded part was just a hypothesis. I don't know whether that was the reason, or whether it was something else. The point is, it happened and all evidence points to it being caused in some way by taking in more calories. Just how that happened, I can't say for sure nor could my doctor.

    The "evidence" doesn't point to anything of the kind. Unless you spent the week in a lab that recorded your activities and eating, you have no evidence. The only way you can lose weight is if you are burning more calories than you are consuming (barring medical issues of course).

    Obviously I was using more calories than I was taking in - that's why I was losing weight. And I was losing more weight than before, which meant the deficit was greater than it was before. The increase in my rate of weight loss was happening at a time when I was eating more calories and my exercise was about the same. So my best hypothesis is that something other than more exercise increased my calorie use. What that is, I can't say.