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Going Plant-Based is the New Prescription, Says Nation’s Leading Physicians
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Average life expectancy increased from 1900 because of a dramatic drop in infant mortality. And yes, that was largely due to modern medicine.6
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the point is , where you want it or not and no matter the age, when total cholesterol is very low (like 150 or less), cardiac disease is very rare.
very low total cholesterol won't happen to typical meat eaters. this is why I keep my consumption low.
I dont eat much meat and red meat only in a blue moon and my LDL is high.
Eating meat is not the only means of increasing dietary cholesterol. You are omitting other food groups, lack of movement, body weight and genetics.
Also there were studies that very low cholesterol isnt great for you either.
Back to the good ol "everything in moderation".
Edit: There is nothing wrong with eating lean meats. OR even a big juicy steak. But how these meats are prepared and how often along with the rest of the diet and lifestyle contributions are also important factors. This thread is silly. There are plenty people with terrific cholesterol numbers who have heart attacks.3 -
the human body is capable of making cholesterol if the circumstances are right.
Antibiotics may be good in life threatening situations but they carry a down side. As well as eliminating the bacteria which is causing the problem antibiotics will change and reduce the balance of digestive bacteria especially if several courses are taken within a period, I have read many recomendations for digestive microbes to be suplemented when taking a course so as to maintain a good balance.
A totally plant based diet runs the risk of being lower in vitamin b12 than is helpful. It is there but not in the quantities humans are regarded to require so meat eating is often advisable.
There is also another problem with the water soluble vitamin b 12, there is a specific microbe which is required to make the "intrinsic factor" which encapsulates the molecules of b 12 to facilitate their transit through the stomach to a lower stage where it can be easily absorbed.0 -
I have just one thought about this.
Bacon.5 -
Average life expectancy increased from 1900 because of a dramatic drop in infant mortality. And yes, that was largely due to modern medicine.cwolfman13 wrote: »
unpossible....
Totally correct, it was too early.
Better hygiene and general water chlorination, that is.1 -
Totally correct, it was too early.
Better hygiene and general water chlorination, that is.
I'm pretty sure @cwolfman13 was being sarcastic.the human body is capable of making cholesterol if the circumstances are right.
That would be pretty much always. We need cholesterol -- not as a nutrient, but as an essential part of our biochemistry.2 -
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Clean water in the industrialized world likely also greatly increased the lifespan of average human. Still today it is a huge problem. In 2000 WHO estimated that 2.2 million people died from diarrheal diseases. This does not include other other water born pathogens. http://pacinst.org/app/uploads/2013/02/water_related_deaths_report3.pdf
Back on topic: Okinawa had a traditional diet that was huge in carbohydrates but included a large portion of fish and pork. Calorie intake was fairly low overall. They were at times the oldest living group in Japan and even the world. I live here and can honestly say that there are more people active in 70s and older than I have ever seen also. They walk to the store and post office. I saw a 70 year old man climb a mango tree to pick fruits. So exercise or more appropriately activity also means a lot.
Sardinia Italy is a well known area for longevity in the western world. They also eat larger amounts of fish and include milk and eggs into the diet.
So neither of these documented long life populations are strict vegetarians. The diets include whole foods and not processed crap and even have indulgences in wine or awamori. They don't avoid all carbs, fat, or animal protein. They just eat stuff in moderation in comparison to the modern western world. They also remain active far later in life.
Side note: The last generation of long lived people on Okinawa do to diet may be retired already. Most people born post war eat no better than average person in the US. Sure they eat more fish but the sodium intake is pretty damn high and processed foods are a go to. The difference is most people still exercise nightly with walks and jogging. Morbid obesity is far from the norm but there are plenty of people in 30's and younger in the obese BMI group. Pretty rare to see an obese person in 40's and older here.1 -
the human body is capable of making cholesterol if the circumstances are right.
Antibiotics may be good in life threatening situations but they carry a down side. As well as eliminating the bacteria which is causing the problem antibiotics will change and reduce the balance of digestive bacteria especially if several courses are taken within a period, I have read many recomendations for digestive microbes to be suplemented when taking a course so as to maintain a good balance.
A totally plant based diet runs the risk of being lower in vitamin b12 than is helpful. It is there but not in the quantities humans are regarded to require so meat eating is often advisable.
There is also another problem with the water soluble vitamin b 12, there is a specific microbe which is required to make the "intrinsic factor" which encapsulates the molecules of b 12 to facilitate their transit through the stomach to a lower stage where it can be easily absorbed.
You don't have to eat meat (or other animal products) to get B12. Supplements are easy to find and affordable and there are also many fortified foods.
Since many people have to wind up supplementing anyway (the largest group of people with B12 deficiencies in the US is people over 65, not vegans), eating animal products solely for B12 doesn't make much sense.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
You don't have to eat meat (or other animal products) to get B12. Supplements are easy to find and affordable and there are also many fortified foods.
Since many people have to wind up supplementing anyway (the largest group of people with B12 deficiencies in the US is people over 65, not vegans), eating animal products solely for B12 doesn't make much sense.
The B12 deficiency for older folks was something I wasn't aware of, but just went for a physical yesterday, and the NP said that since I'm turning 45 this year she would have them test for D and B12 to get a baseline to see if I need to supplement at some point. I already take D because I am just-this-side-of-vampire fair and avoid the sun, but never gave a second thought to B12!
Anyhoo, my two cents is that anyone eating the stereotypical SAD diet would be better off eating more plant-based. I think this news "sounds" more controversial because for some reason people have recently started mis-using the term "plant based" to mean vegetarian, which it's not, necessarily.
Having said that, I think you can also be healthy eating vegetarian or keto or even the SAD diet (to an extent) if you put a little effort into making sure you are getting balanced nutrition.1 -
WendyLeigh1119 wrote: »Eating meat daily is one thing. Eating red meat or pork for 5 of them is definitely unhealthy. If 5 days out of 7 are fish, chicken, and shellfish...huge difference.
I personally could never stomach eating meat more than 3 days per week, but that's because I'm mostly grossed out by it, not because I think it's deadly.
You are leaving out a BUNCH of variables here, not the least of which is preparation. There is nothing inherently wrong with "red meat" and red meat can easily be lower in fat, saturated fat, and cholesterol than many types of seafood and poultry. In fact, per USDA & Texas A&M, the 2 meats lowest in saturated fat and cholesterol are longhorn beef and venison and that info has been around for 30 years.0 -
The B12 deficiency for older folks was something I wasn't aware of, but just went for a physical yesterday, and the NP said that since I'm turning 45 this year she would have them test for D and B12 to get a baseline to see if I need to supplement at some point. I already take D because I am just-this-side-of-vampire fair and avoid the sun, but never gave a second thought to B12!
Anyhoo, my two cents is that anyone eating the stereotypical SAD diet would be better off eating more plant-based. I think this news "sounds" more controversial because for some reason people have recently started mis-using the term "plant based" to mean vegetarian, which it's not, necessarily.
Having said that, I think you can also be healthy eating vegetarian or keto or even the SAD diet (to an extent) if you put a little effort into making sure you are getting balanced nutrition.
I agree -- whether or not you're eliminating meat, many people would do well to add more plants to their diet.
I wouldn't be surprised if many problems with the SAD are actually problems of combining the SAD with obesity. It would be interesting to see more studies around people who eat the SAD, but maintain a healthy body weight. Of course, one issue with the SAD (or at least many variants of it), is that it can make it more challenging for some people to maintain a healthy body weight.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
I agree -- whether or not you're eliminating meat, many people would do well to add more plants to their diet.
I wouldn't be surprised if many problems with the SAD are actually problems of combining the SAD with obesity. It would be interesting to see more studies around people who eat the SAD, but maintain a healthy body weight. Of course, one issue with the SAD (or at least many variants of it), is that it can make it more challenging for some people to maintain a healthy body weight.
There are a lot of people who have lived a long time and ate diets full of whole eggs full of cholesterol, steak, hamburgers, bbq, fried chicken, bacon, sausage gravy, etc. What there aren't is lots of obese people who live equally as long. That isn't just coincidence.2 -
There are a lot of people who have lived a long time and ate diets full of whole eggs full of cholesterol, steak, hamburgers, bbq, fried chicken, bacon, sausage gravy, etc. What there aren't is lots of obese people who live equally as long. That isn't just coincidence.
Exactly. I think of my grandparents (who fit into that group), I'm sure many other people can think of similar people in their lives. While it's true that anecdotes like that aren't necessarily proof of anything (we all know the story of the smoker who lived to be 90), it's hard to escape the feeling that we need to better understand how the SAD works in the context of someone who maintains a healthy body weight, we may be blaming the wrong thing here.1 -
In 1930, average life expectancy for a white male was 60 yo, that was BEFORE vaccins and penicillin. So from 47 (your number) to 60, that is a drastic improvement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillin
"Penicillin was discovered in 1928 by Scottish scientist Alexander Fleming.[3] People began using it to treat infections in 1942."
Two different things.
Sulfonomide drugs were the first wave of antibiotics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)0 -
WendyLeigh1119 wrote: »Eating meat daily is one thing. Eating red meat or pork for 5 of them is definitely unhealthy. If 5 days out of 7 are fish, chicken, and shellfish...huge difference.
I personally could never stomach eating meat more than 3 days per week, but that's because I'm mostly grossed out by it, not because I think it's deadly.
Yes, and if you eat fish more than 2 times a week you're going to lean towards a mercury problem more so than the problems red meat offers. None are very appealing.
About the b12 deficiency: B12 actually comes from soil. Meat used to have this naturally, but since most cows (and other lifestock) don't get to eat natural grass anymore and are mostly fed with modified soybeans they get it injected nowadays. vegan/vegetarian or not, you're getting your b12 from supplements.0 -
If you actually look at the recommendations, the diet that is being recommended contains meat, dairy, shellfish and other animal products. This is a case of a click bait article that is misrepresenting the facts.2
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inkpoisonedsoul wrote: »If you actually look at the recommendations, the diet that is being recommended contains meat, dairy, shellfish and other animal products. This is a case of a click bait article that is misrepresenting the facts.
No *puppy* way - that never happens!
/sarcasm, in case it was missed2 -
GoldenEye_ wrote: »
Yes, and if you eat fish more than 2 times a week you're going to lean towards a mercury problem more so than the problems red meat offers. None are very appealing.
About the b12 deficiency: B12 actually comes from soil. Meat used to have this naturally, but since most cows (and other lifestock) don't get to eat natural grass anymore and are mostly fed with modified soybeans they get it injected nowadays. vegan/vegetarian or not, you're getting your b12 from supplements.
Untrue. B12 is only made by microorganisms. In ruminants, the B12 comes from the microflora in their guts and is dependent on cobalt in their diet.
http://www.agriking.com/importance-of-cobalt-to-beef-dairy-cattle1 -
inkpoisonedsoul wrote: »If you actually look at the recommendations, the diet that is being recommended contains meat, dairy, shellfish and other animal products. This is a case of a click bait article that is misrepresenting the facts.
So your telling me an article from a place calling itself "Organic Authority" is misrepresenting data and recommendations? I'm shocked. Shock I say.4 -
GoldenEye_ wrote: »
Yes, and if you eat fish more than 2 times a week you're going to lean towards a mercury problem more so than the problems red meat offers. None are very appealing.
About the b12 deficiency: B12 actually comes from soil. Meat used to have this naturally, but since most cows (and other lifestock) don't get to eat natural grass anymore and are mostly fed with modified soybeans they get it injected nowadays. vegan/vegetarian or not, you're getting your b12 from supplements.
Not necessarily...depends on the fish. I eat a lot of wild Alaskan salmon and wild Alaskan cod...both are pretty low mercury fish.1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
Not necessarily...depends on the fish. I eat a lot of wild Alaskan salmon and wild Alaskan cod...both are pretty low mercury fish.
Preach!2 -
GoldenEye_ wrote: »
Yes, and if you eat fish more than 2 times a week you're going to lean towards a mercury problem more so than the problems red meat offers. None are very appealing.
About the b12 deficiency: B12 actually comes from soil. Meat used to have this naturally, but since most cows (and other lifestock) don't get to eat natural grass anymore and are mostly fed with modified soybeans they get it injected nowadays. vegan/vegetarian or not, you're getting your b12 from supplements.
My understanding (at least for US cattle) is that many of them are raised on grazing (and forage) either in cow/calf operations or on land that is specifically dedicated to weaned animals. This will take up a good portion of their (rather short) life, maybe a year or so. Once they reach a certain weight (about 700 pounds), they then go to the feedlot for quick weight gain (6-8 months) prior to slaughter.
I don't know the exact percentages (perhaps there is someone with more expertise in this thread who can help with that), but a good portion of cows used for beef, at least in the US, are getting grass for a good portion of their lives.
Obviously everyone isn't from the US, I don't know how it works in other countries.1 -
[quote/]No *puppy* way - that never happens!
/sarcasm, in case it was missed[/quote]
Lol just wanted to make sure that people realize that the recommendations don't actually line up with the article's claim.
For a woman my age, I am recommended to have 5.5 oz of protein foods (including meat), 2.5 cups veggies, 2 cups fruit, 6 oz grains, 3 cups dairy, and 6 teaspoons oil. This is far from a plant based diet
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So many experts in this thread; doctors, evolutionary biologists, archaeologists, nutritional historians, time travellers...
Who needs scientific journals when we have MFP forums, right?!2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
My understanding (at least for US cattle) is that many of them are raised on grazing (and forage) either in cow/calf operations or on land that is specifically dedicated to weaned animals. This will take up a good portion of their (rather short) life, maybe a year or so. Once they reach a certain weight (about 700 pounds), they then go to the feedlot for quick weight gain (6-8 months) prior to slaughter.
I don't know the exact percentages (perhaps there is someone with more expertise in this thread who can help with that), but a good portion of cows used for beef, at least in the US, are getting grass for a good portion of their lives.
Obviously everyone isn't from the US, I don't know how it works in other countries.
You aren't wrong. I have raised cattle and have family that still does and know lots of ranchers. Nobody raises cattle in a feed lot and many never see a feed lot. Feed lots are just to fatten them up before slaughter. The idea of raising cattle solely on feed is laughable to me. They eat a LOT. Even show stock are raised on pasture and feed is a supplement.2 -
I have raised cattle and have family that still does and know lots of ranchers. Nobody raises cattle in a feed lot and many never see a feed lot. Feed lots are just to fatten them up before slaughter. The idea of raising cattle solely on feed is laughable to me. They eat a LOT. Even show stock are raised on pasture and feed is a supplement.
That was what I thought, I appreciate you confirming it with your real world experience.1 -
So many experts in this thread; doctors, evolutionary biologists, archaeologists, nutritional historians, time travellers...
Who needs scientific journals when we have MFP forums, right?!
While I think that people should always clarify when they aren't a professional or expect, one of the things I enjoy about this place is that we have so many people here who are passionate about subjects and educating themselves on them. While it doesn't replace professional knowledge, a lot of people here *do* research the science and history behind things.2 -
The_Enginerd wrote: »
Untrue. B12 is only made by microorganisms. In ruminants, the B12 comes from the microflora in their guts and is dependent on cobalt in their diet.
http://www.agriking.com/importance-of-cobalt-to-beef-dairy-cattle
Not untrue. B12 is made by microorganisms that are mostly found, there you have it: in soil. High concentrations in the soil leads to high concentrations in, you guess it: cobalt in the plants that grow on this soil. In the article you yourself linked it says:
" Most forages and feedstuffs fed to dairy and beef animals do not contain adequate quantities of cobalt to support the rumen and animal requirements. Consequently supplemental cobalt must be added to beef and dairy rations."
What is cobalt? A necessary component in Vitamin B12.
So yes, it is a little more complicated than what I might have made it seem. Sorry for that.0
This discussion has been closed.
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