Can diet affect your mental health?

theresejesu wrote: »

nutmegoreo wrote: »

theresejesu wrote: »

GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »

I'm curious why lectins (one type of anti-nutrient) are problematic, but oxalic acid, phytic acid, and glucosinolates aren't a problem in the Gundry approved list of foods.

gundrymd.com/plant-paradox-shopping-list/

He's rather inconsistent and it would seem to me that a careful read on anti-nutrients shows just about ALL foods except fruits (and even at that, enough fiber in quantity is an anti-nutrient) and meats contain anti-nutrients.

Given that these foods also contain numerous other healthy compounds like vitamins and minerals that have benefits which far outnumber these anti-nutrient effects and that cooking and other known methods deal with the anti-nutrients, I can't see any benefit to being alarmist about foods that people have been eating for years.

I especially can't see the point of putting aside critical thinking and acting like the whole of the body of medical and nutritional science is so backward minded that someone whose own message on the "dangers" inherent in foods isn't even consistent with its own narrative should be adhered to, especially to the point where it's implied that those of us who refuse to see the wisdom in this message are failing to see the truth of it.

The problem is though, cooking, looked at just in a general way doesn't quite cut it. First, you can't destroy or get rid of all the offending lectins by cooking, some resist all methods. For those that can be significantly reduced by cooking, you would need to know which method to use and apply it correctly. Some need pressure cooking, some need a certain temp to be reached and maintained for a minimum time, others need fermentation or long periods of soaking, and for some none of this works.

For myself, my approach to this information is to try to avoid all the foods on the "no" list to start with (which is to allow the gut to heal, stop the leaky-gut problems), and if I can't, then use Lectin Lock or similar supplement to keep them in the gut as much as possible, then add foods back in that I can properly prepare to avoid the offending lectins they conrain.

In fact, I put both Lectin Lock and what i learned from Gundry's book to the test to see if an idea I had might pan out (I know, 2 variables, but I figured that if it didn't work, then that might mean both were negated or only the Lectin Lock didnt really work.) After reading what Gundry had to say about WGA - Wheat Germ Agglutinin, and other research I read about it, one of the questions I had was in regards to insulin resistance. WGA mimics insulin in the body. It can bind with insulin receptor sites, thus preventing insulin from binding to those sites for the interim, and sending its 'bad' messages to the cell. Unlike insulin, which delivers its message the releases the receptor site to allow it to be open to more insulin, WGA does not release its hold and continues to occupy the insulin receptor site until it's exhausted. During this time, insulin is out there waiting and accumulating along with the glucose it's trying to get into the cell for energy production.

That accumulation of insulin and glucose would look just like what we see in insulin resistence. So the question I had was could WGA and other lectins that mimic insulin be a significant cause of the increase in insulin and glucose levels we see with insulin resistance? If our increased levels of glucose and insulin are the result of our cells gradually becoming less responsive to insulin, then that's not going to change with the drop of a hat. It would gradually change over time in response to healthier eating, etc. One would not see an immediate reversion to normal values.

But what if taking Lectin Lock before a meal known to spike blood sugar in someone who is borderline diabetic (A1C had finally reached 6.4, so had been developing insulin resistance for a long time) actually resulted in an immediate normal, healthy response to a sugar load as demonstrated by normal blood sugars at 1 and 2 hours post meal: less than 140 at 1 hour, and less than 120 at 2 hours? That would suggest that 1) Lectin Lock was working to keep WGA and other insulin mimicking lectins from entering the body and binding to insulin receptor sites and disrupting insulin's ability to get glucose into cells, 2)these lectins are causing rises in glucose and insulin just as Gundry and others are telling us, and 3) now insulin would be able to bind to the receptor sites without hinderance and lower glucose normally without an increased insulin response..

So, I went to McDonalds with my daughter, bought a quarter pounder cheese burger with everything on it and a large half-cut sweet tea. I took the Lectin Lock.

At 1 hour post meal, my BS was 135. I've never seen my blood sugar at 135 at 1 hour after eating something like that, it would be in the 180s or higher unless I took cinnamon. I was very surprised. 20 min later it was 125 and dropping.

The next day I was fasting for labs, so didn't eat until later in the afternoon. Decided to do something similar with foid from another fast food restaurant - took Lectin Lock, then had a bacon cheeseburger with everything on it, fried asparagus and a large raspberry ice tea. My 1 hour BS was 128! My 2 hour was 113!!.

Now two tests don't prove anything, but I was getting excited.

Later that night my pre-meal BS was 86!!! That I cannot remember ever seeing without being symptomatic and only if I had gone way too long without eating. In the past, if my blood sugar was that low, I would be symptomatic and my brain woul be screaming 'eat something!' I felt fine, a bit hungry, but fine.

1 hour post meal, 126! 2.5 hours post meal 114! I see a trend developing.

Later I decided to have a snack - raisin cinnamon bread lightly toasted with coconut oil (instead of butter) - no Lectin Lock. 1 hour BS 142.

Decided to have the same thing the next day,
this time with Lectin Lock, 1 hour BS 105!

This same pattern continued over the next week as I continued monitoring my BS in response to the use of Lectin Lock. The only time I went out of the accepted ranges was when I had a meal with tofu - my pre meal BS wss 90, 1 hour BS was 161, yet my 2 hour was 114.

Needless to say, I knew I was on to something, which meant Gundry and others have definitely been on to something important.

I have been doing so much better healthwise in general since cutting out grains and beans especially, using Lectin Lock when I can't be sure I am avoiding them, even before I began the keto diet. I dont crave them, I dont miss them. When we go out to dinner, like at a Mexican restaurant and everyone is having chips and beans and salsa while waiting for our food, I have absolutely no desire for any of it, even if I'm quite hungry; and I used to chow down on this stuff just as much as the next person and enjoyed it.

I am seeing in my own life the evidence of what Gundry is trying to tell people. The problem is, we filter everything through our paradigms, and unless we are open to new ideas and having our paradigms challenged, even demolished, along with their underlying assumptions, we can too easily dismiss something like thus, which I was also tempted to do regarding his book.

I am very glad I didn't.

You really just sound to me like you are shill for the book and the products. All the fear mongering and hype around it. I really question your motives here. Just show up one day going on about this stuff. It's how your posts are coming across, to me anyway.

You're entirely entitled to question.

I have absolutely no relationship any kind with the author or the book, or anything to do with it.

It is listening to people like you that prevented me from reading anything he's written before. It was only on the recommendation of someone else that I even decided to take a look at it.

It is much easier to cast doubt than it is to do the work needed to find out for oneself. Casting doubt through accusations and inuendo is actually the lazy man's way out imho. It has the appearance of absolving the one doing so from any real, legitimate effort on their own part to legitimately investigate for themselves.

My husband is the ultimate skeptic, a true Missouri Man. If you think you're going to hurt my feelings or intimidate me with this type of tactic and rhetoric, which might work with soneone who feels less secure with who they are and what they know, you're not.

VintageFeline wrote: »

You know what, I'm going to go with what my consultant psychiatrist has to say about treatment of my chronic mental illnesses. It's frankly insulting to have a layman come in here purporting to know more about my illnesses and their causes than both myself, my GP, my psychiatrist and psychologist. And I live in the UK so it's not a big pharma conspiracy.

How about you live with schizophrenia or bipolar etc, try to treat it with diet and get back to me?

rheddmobile wrote: »

French_Peasant wrote: »

StarBrightStarBright wrote: »

French_Peasant wrote: »

lioness803 wrote: »

I've read some things that links (and no, I have no info saved on it that I can share right now) the gut bacteria issues to anxiety and depression. I've had digestive issues (IBS) and anxiety for most of my life, so anecdotally it seems possible that its a contributing factor. I need to get better at taking probiotics regularly and see if anything improves. Also purely anecdotal, but some people found cutting back on sugar improves mental health issues, but I think its impossible to pinpoint if that's just sugar, or part of overall lifestyle changes.

Scientists are definitely making some astounding discoveries with the microbiome, although the field is distinctly in its infancy. Apparently we are just crazy giant meat puppets controlled by our gut flora and fauna, if it is indeed true (as research is theorizing) that our microbiome can manipulate our hormones and such.

However, pills and yogurts labeled "probiotic" are unproven and increasingly strike me as scammy; although I eat my fair share of yogurt, there is no way the commercial, industrialized strains of bacteria are going to have a fighting chance against the gut bacteria that is there dietically, familially and genetically. A more effective way of introducing and maintaining new gut taxa is by a long-term regimen of ingesting "crapsules" and having poop enemas, supported by an appropriately supportive course of prebiotics.

Does autism fall under mental health? That is one of the most fascinating areas of current microbiome research:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/11/how-microbes-shape-autism/416220/

I have only recently started digging into this, but from the studies I have read, I would not be surprised if our microbiome may be able to play our mental state and emotions like a violin. It's super freaky and super cool at the same time.

ETA: For more information on specifically depression and anxiety as related to microbiome and diet. It looks like this is an opinion piece, but it is layman-accessible and includes a robust list of citations for further reading: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Felice_Jacka/publication/268746977_OPINION_The_gut_microbiome_and_diet_in_psychiatry_focus_on_depression/links/54753b0c0cf2778985aec8ae.pdf

Great links! We actually had a great but slightly hippy-dippy pediatrician who I think bought into microbiome/autism link. My oldest son had chronic ear infections and she really stressed feeding him healthy gut foods every single time she had to prescribe antibiotics.

While this is a tangent from the food/mental health issue, your links made me think about the fecal transplants for weight loss theory . Has there been a thread for that?

LOL I hope not. In my reading I have seen it emphasized again and again not to run out and start looking for poop pills, because as noted above, the science is in its infancy, and by infancy read: three-pounder in the NICU. There are particular taxa associated with low BMI, but it's not like the crapsules will be a quick fix for someone with entrenched overeating habits. I suspect it just makes things a touch easier. But after some of the things I have read here, I can see people lining up around the block for their high-priced poop pills...any kind of "magic" to avoid the tough process of actually cutting calories.

Out of curiosity, what did she think the connection was between gut issues and ear infections? Just that a healthy gut might cure one problem so it might cure them all? Or was it to help re-establish his gut flora after the antibiotics did their damage to it?

There have been several recent studies about trying to establish different kinds of critters in the gut - one found that despite being introduced they promptly died off, and another found that certain ones are highly heritable - that is to say, they are more frequently found in identical than fraternal twins. So crapsules are very much a... ahem... crap shoot at this point, since nobody quite knows which individual strains do what and even if they did, and the transfer process worked, they don't know how to keep them alive once transferred.

It's a heck of a lot more complicated than "eat more kimchi."

theresejesu wrote: »

The title of this thread is "Can diet affect your mental healrh?"

The answer is definitely yes, it can indeed affect your mental heslth.

Arguments that focus on arguing diet can't cause or cure mental illness are red herrings deflecting off of the fact that diets do affect mental health, for reasons I am having difficulty understanding.

Schizophrenia has come up. Can diet affect schizophrenia?:

"Disturbances in energy homeostasis have been linked to the pathobiology of several mental diseases, and so dietary management is becoming a realistic strategy to treat psychiatric disorders. Numerous studies have found that there might be an association between abnormal metabolism (diabetes type II, obesity and metabolic syndrome) and psychiatric disorders59. In a large study of patients with manic depression60 or schizophrenia61,62, the rate of diabetes was found to be higher than in the general population (1.2% of people aged 18–44 years and 6.3% of people aged 45–64 years163). The overall prevalence of diabetes in a group of 95 patients with schizophrenia was 15.8%, and this increased to 18.9% with age61, whereas diabetes in 203 patients with manic depression ranged from 2.9% in patients of approximately 30 years of age to 25% in patients of 75–79 years of age60.

However, it is difficult to ascertain a cause–effect relationship between diabetes and psychiatric disorders in these studies given that schizophrenia, manic depression and other psychiatric disorders are associated with poor quality of life and the side effects of anti-psychotic medication.

On the basis of its effects on synaptic plasticity and energy metabolism, BDNF has been the focus of research into current hypotheses of schizophrenia and depression63–66. Low levels of BDNF in the plasma are associated with impaired glucose metabolism and type II diabetes67, and BDNF is reduced in the hippocampus, in various cortical areas68 and in the serum69 of patients with schizophrenia. In mice, genetic deletion of the TrkB receptor in the forebrain produces schizophrenic-like behaviour70. Furthermore, BDNF levels are reduced in the plasma of patients with major depression71, and chronic administration of antidepressants elevates hippocampal BDNF levels72. A recent study in rodents demonstrated that defeat stress, an animal model of depression, induced a lasting repression of BDNF transcripts, whereas antidepressant treatment reversed this repression by inducing histone acetylation73. Although the evidence is not conclusive to argue that BDNF has a role in mediating depression or schizophrenia, it is becoming clear that most treatments for depression or schizophrenia — that is, exercise and drugs — involve the action of BDNF."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2805706/


Here is a more recent article on BDNF and Schizophrenia:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3683823/

Here is an article about ways to increase BDNF, which is deficient in people with Schizophrenia, with sources:

http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/03/30/8-ways-to-increase-bdnf-levels-brain-derived-neurotrophic-factor/

which includes exercise, calorie restriction or intermittent fasting, dietary modifications, sunlight/vit D, supplements, weight loss, drugs, and social enrichment.

Most of those invoke diet in some fashion.

jennybearlv wrote: »

theresejesu wrote: »

The title of this thread is "Can diet affect your mental healrh?"

The answer is definitely yes, it can indeed affect your mental heslth.

Arguments that focus on arguing diet can't cause or cure mental illness are red herrings deflecting off of the fact that diets do affect mental health, for reasons I am having difficulty understanding.

Schizophrenia has come up. Can diet affect schizophrenia?:

"Disturbances in energy homeostasis have been linked to the pathobiology of several mental diseases, and so dietary management is becoming a realistic strategy to treat psychiatric disorders. Numerous studies have found that there might be an association between abnormal metabolism (diabetes type II, obesity and metabolic syndrome) and psychiatric disorders59. In a large study of patients with manic depression60 or schizophrenia61,62, the rate of diabetes was found to be higher than in the general population (1.2% of people aged 18–44 years and 6.3% of people aged 45–64 years163). The overall prevalence of diabetes in a group of 95 patients with schizophrenia was 15.8%, and this increased to 18.9% with age61, whereas diabetes in 203 patients with manic depression ranged from 2.9% in patients of approximately 30 years of age to 25% in patients of 75–79 years of age60.

However, it is difficult to ascertain a cause–effect relationship between diabetes and psychiatric disorders in these studies given that schizophrenia, manic depression and other psychiatric disorders are associated with poor quality of life and the side effects of anti-psychotic medication.

On the basis of its effects on synaptic plasticity and energy metabolism, BDNF has been the focus of research into current hypotheses of schizophrenia and depression63–66. Low levels of BDNF in the plasma are associated with impaired glucose metabolism and type II diabetes67, and BDNF is reduced in the hippocampus, in various cortical areas68 and in the serum69 of patients with schizophrenia. In mice, genetic deletion of the TrkB receptor in the forebrain produces schizophrenic-like behaviour70. Furthermore, BDNF levels are reduced in the plasma of patients with major depression71, and chronic administration of antidepressants elevates hippocampal BDNF levels72. A recent study in rodents demonstrated that defeat stress, an animal model of depression, induced a lasting repression of BDNF transcripts, whereas antidepressant treatment reversed this repression by inducing histone acetylation73. Although the evidence is not conclusive to argue that BDNF has a role in mediating depression or schizophrenia, it is becoming clear that most treatments for depression or schizophrenia — that is, exercise and drugs — involve the action of BDNF."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2805706/


Here is a more recent article on BDNF and Schizophrenia:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3683823/

Here is an article about ways to increase BDNF, which is deficient in people with Schizophrenia, with sources:

http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/03/30/8-ways-to-increase-bdnf-levels-brain-derived-neurotrophic-factor/

which includes exercise, calorie restriction or intermittent fasting, dietary modifications, sunlight/vit D, supplements, weight loss, drugs, and social enrichment.

Most of those invoke diet in some fashion.

Umm. Read the part I bolded. People with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia get fat from not taking care of themselves or taking medications associated with extreme weight gain. The very idea that my diet is causing my mental health problems is just plain insulting. Also, how old is this? When did scientific literature last use the term "manic depression"?

VintageFeline wrote: »

You know what, I'm going to go with what my consultant psychiatrist has to say about treatment of my chronic mental illnesses. It's frankly insulting to have a layman come in here purporting to know more about my illnesses and their causes than both myself, my GP, my psychiatrist and psychologist. And I live in the UK so it's not a big pharma conspiracy.

How about you live with schizophrenia or bipolar etc, try to treat it with diet and get back to me?

theresejesu wrote: »

GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »

I'm curious why lectins (one type of anti-nutrient) are problematic, but oxalic acid, phytic acid, and glucosinolates aren't a problem in the Gundry approved list of foods.

gundrymd.com/plant-paradox-shopping-list/

He's rather inconsistent and it would seem to me that a careful read on anti-nutrients shows just about ALL foods except fruits (and even at that, enough fiber in quantity is an anti-nutrient) and meats contain anti-nutrients.

Given that these foods also contain numerous other healthy compounds like vitamins and minerals that have benefits which far outnumber these anti-nutrient effects and that cooking and other known methods deal with the anti-nutrients, I can't see any benefit to being alarmist about foods that people have been eating for years.

I especially can't see the point of putting aside critical thinking and acting like the whole of the body of medical and nutritional science is so backward minded that someone whose own message on the "dangers" inherent in foods isn't even consistent with its own narrative should be adhered to, especially to the point where it's implied that those of us who refuse to see the wisdom in this message are failing to see the truth of it.

The problem is though, cooking, looked at just in a general way doesn't quite cut it. First, you can't destroy or get rid of all the offending lectins by cooking, some resist all methods. For those that can be significantly reduced by cooking, you would need to know which method to use and apply it correctly. Some need pressure cooking, some need a certain temp to be reached and maintained for a minimum time, others need fermentation or long periods of soaking, and for some none of this works.

For myself, my approach to this information is to try to avoid all the foods on the "no" list to start with (which is to allow the gut to heal, stop the leaky-gut problems), and if I can't, then use Lectin Lock or similar supplement to keep them in the gut as much as possible, then add foods back in that I can properly prepare to avoid the offending lectins they conrain.

In fact, I put both Lectin Lock and what i learned from Gundry's book to the test to see if an idea I had might pan out (I know, 2 variables, but I figured that if it didn't work, then that might mean both were negated or only the Lectin Lock didnt really work.) After reading what Gundry had to say about WGA - Wheat Germ Agglutinin, and other research I read about it, one of the questions I had was in regards to insulin resistance. WGA mimics insulin in the body. It can bind with insulin receptor sites, thus preventing insulin from binding to those sites for the interim, and sending its 'bad' messages to the cell. Unlike insulin, which delivers its message the releases the receptor site to allow it to be open to more insulin, WGA does not release its hold and continues to occupy the insulin receptor site until it's exhausted. During this time, insulin is out there waiting and accumulating along with the glucose it's trying to get into the cell for energy production.

That accumulation of insulin and glucose would look just like what we see in insulin resistence. So the question I had was could WGA and other lectins that mimic insulin be a significant cause of the increase in insulin and glucose levels we see with insulin resistance? If our increased levels of glucose and insulin are the result of our cells gradually becoming less responsive to insulin, then that's not going to change with the drop of a hat. It would gradually change over time in response to healthier eating, etc. One would not see an immediate reversion to normal values.

But what if taking Lectin Lock before a meal known to spike blood sugar in someone who is borderline diabetic (A1C had finally reached 6.4, so had been developing insulin resistance for a long time) actually resulted in an immediate normal, healthy response to a sugar load as demonstrated by normal blood sugars at 1 and 2 hours post meal: less than 140 at 1 hour, and less than 120 at 2 hours? That would suggest that 1) Lectin Lock was working to keep WGA and other insulin mimicking lectins from entering the body and binding to insulin receptor sites and disrupting insulin's ability to get glucose into cells, 2)these lectins are causing rises in glucose and insulin just as Gundry and others are telling us, and 3) now insulin would be able to bind to the receptor sites without hinderance and lower glucose normally without an increased insulin response..

So, I went to McDonalds with my daughter, bought a quarter pounder cheese burger with everything on it and a large half-cut sweet tea. I took the Lectin Lock.

At 1 hour post meal, my BS was 135. I've never seen my blood sugar at 135 at 1 hour after eating something like that, it would be in the 180s or higher unless I took cinnamon. I was very surprised. 20 min later it was 125 and dropping.

The next day I was fasting for labs, so didn't eat until later in the afternoon. Decided to do something similar with foid from another fast food restaurant - took Lectin Lock, then had a bacon cheeseburger with everything on it, fried asparagus and a large raspberry ice tea. My 1 hour BS was 128! My 2 hour was 113!!.

Now two tests don't prove anything, but I was getting excited.

Later that night my pre-meal BS was 86!!! That I cannot remember ever seeing without being symptomatic and only if I had gone way too long without eating. In the past, if my blood sugar was that low, I would be symptomatic and my brain woul be screaming 'eat something!' I felt fine, a bit hungry, but fine.

1 hour post meal, 126! 2.5 hours post meal 114! I see a trend developing.

Later I decided to have a snack - raisin cinnamon bread lightly toasted with coconut oil (instead of butter) - no Lectin Lock. 1 hour BS 142.

Decided to have the same thing the next day,
this time with Lectin Lock, 1 hour BS 105!

This same pattern continued over the next week as I continued monitoring my BS in response to the use of Lectin Lock. The only time I went out of the accepted ranges was when I had a meal with tofu - my pre meal BS wss 90, 1 hour BS was 161, yet my 2 hour was 114.

Needless to say, I knew I was on to something, which meant Gundry and others have definitely been on to something important.

I have been doing so much better healthwise in general since cutting out grains and beans especially, using Lectin Lock when I can't be sure I am avoiding them, even before I began the keto diet. I dont crave them, I dont miss them. When we go out to dinner, like at a Mexican restaurant and everyone is having chips and beans and salsa while waiting for our food, I have absolutely no desire for any of it, even if I'm quite hungry; and I used to chow down on this stuff just as much as the next person and enjoyed it.

I am seeing in my own life the evidence of what Gundry is trying to tell people. The problem is, we filter everything through our paradigms, and unless we are open to new ideas and having our paradigms challenged, even demolished, along with their underlying assumptions, we can too easily dismiss something like thus, which I was also tempted to do regarding his book.

I am very glad I didn't.