Weird symptoms / Calorie Deficit

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Replies

  • noirelb
    noirelb Posts: 216 Member
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    Ready2Getcut wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »

    I get being project oriented. I work for myself too. But what you need to realize is that the way you eat is not a project, it's life. If it's boring to do it sustainably now, would it also be boring to maintain once you hit your goal weight? It's highly possible that it would be the case if you keep the same mindset and all of your work will go down the drain (or worse, you will wear yourself out sick jumping from one restrictive diet to another). A workaround would be to set habit building projects instead of specific diet related projects, while watching your weight and calories on the side. Discovered a new way of eating socially while still being within your calories? SCORE! Was able to have just one piece of cake with the least amount of stress more than once? SCORE! Discovered an activity you enjoy doing? SCORE! Was able to consistently manage your stress? SCORE!...and so on. Let the eating part be just that, eating. An activity that is enjoyable and nourishing. We all have our quirks, but when they stand in the way of our success something needs to be done about them.

    I'm really trying to understand what you're saying. I know that there is some wisdom in what you've written, simply because I keep injuring myself at the gym- over and over. And then I lose all of my progress...

    I don't know how to manage the "boredom" tho- I think that I need to connect with doing something I really, really like. The problem is that when you've had a relatively pragmatic lifestyle for numerous years, and maybe you've had some stress in your life, etc - it is really tough to connect with "what nourishes you".

    I'll think more about what "habit building" could mean. Thanks for your comments

    In short, what I mean is this: if normal eating is boring to you and you have this need to jump from one dieting gimmick to another, from Paleo, to low calorie, to low carb, to cleansing, to whatever else, how do you expect that to be sustainable? Why don't you just eat normally within a reasonable calorie deficit, boring as it may be, and consider it just like any other thing you do daily (like brushing your teeth) without all the dieting gimmicks and focus your energy on something else. Just let eating be eating, and not a life consuming improvement project.



    See the bold part up there... OP, why are you doing a cleans and what do you think it does for you?
  • fiercefit76
    fiercefit76 Posts: 8 Member
    Have you thought about panic attacks? I used to have them regularly after quitting marijuana and this sounds like how I felt.
  • nvpixie
    nvpixie Posts: 483 Member
    That doesn't sound very good to me at all! When I'm in a calorie deficit, I feel hungry sometimes but never ever ill! :(
  • brznhabits
    brznhabits Posts: 126 Member
    edited August 2017
    Hi,

    I took think you are under-eating. Specifically I think you are over-estimating your intake and/or under-estimating your burn/activity/TDEE. It is pretty rare (as most folks under-estimate their intake significantly and over estimate their burn). Relating to your symptoms, a significant deficit would cause instability/symptoms/yuckiness especially between meals.

    I'm sorry I skimmed but couldn't read the whole thread word for word, so apologies if I missed this...If you are also switching out foods (as part of a different meal plan) it could be that you are a.) missing out on something your really need (and previously were getting) or b.) adding something that is causing significant blood sugar or allergy issues. For me, as I eat less I have to eat wayyyyy more often, currently I'm eating about every 2.5 hours. I also have to watch my macros more closely.

    Personally I'm a fan of smaller steps changes over time, if nothing else taking smaller steps (in terms of changes/deficit) could help you eliminate some variables.
  • DX2JX2
    DX2JX2 Posts: 1,921 Member
    Ready2Getcut wrote: »
    I'm curious, how do you know that your maintenance calories - "before exercise"- are exactly 2600-2700? Is that something that you have calculated from experience ( measuring your caloric intake / body mass over time), or is that something I could get from a generic "calculator".

    I used MFP and other generic internet calculators as a starting point and leaned towards the more conservative ones (that is, the ones that gave me the lower calorie totals). Since then I calibrated the targets based on experience (weekly intake, weekly exercise, and weight loss results) and found that I lose right around 2 lbs per week on 1600-1700 calories a day. Since two pounds loss per week is about 7000 calories, this tells me that my maintenance calorie amount is right around 2600 or 2700 (assuming no exercise).

    I've found that MFP is a little too low for my tastes (it recommends a target of 1500 per day for me to lose 1.8 pounds per week) and leaves me feeling pretty low energy.

    The Body Weight Planner put out by the USDA (https://www.supertracker.usda.gov/bwp/) seems to be a sweet spot for me. It recommended me a target of about 1650 to lose 2 pounds a week (before exercise) and I've found that to be pretty accurate and sustainable. As an added bonus, the scientists behind it actually calibrated the algorithm against actual test subject experiences before they released it to the public.
  • Ready2Getcut
    Ready2Getcut Posts: 68 Member
    Ready2Getcut wrote: »
    MommaGem2017 wrote: »
    Hi there. I've been following your story and even read through the thread again. I'm not trying to pick on you, but I did see a trend of responses like, "I've already tried that", "That didn't work", "I can't try that right now", "I know that probably right, but...." Again, not trying to pick on you, but to highlight that you may be a little resistant to advice, even though you're actively seeking it out.

    Here are some trends in advice I've seen and agree with. I suggest setting aside your resistance and trying the following:

    1. It appears to be a consensus that you are undereating. Go to your MFP dietary profile, enter in your statistic and your goals, set yourself to sedentary, and let MFP calculate your calorie goal. Then log your exercise separately and eat back some of those calories. Weigh and log your food even on your cheat days. Do this consistently for a month so you can truly see what's going on.
    2. You admit to having stress issues. Please go see a therapist.
    3. STOP the crazy diet fads. Just eat the food you like and make sure it fits into your calorie goal. You will be less likely to need "cheat days" to sustain your efforts.
    4. Open your diary so that if you ask for help again in a month, people have a clear view of how you have been doing and can offer solid advice.

    I wish you the very best of luck!



    I appreciate that you have taken time to read through the thread, but allow me to offer my comments below:

    Firstly, the title of the thread you and everyone else is commenting within begins with "Weird Symptoms". My original post described symptoms which happen to occur within my body during a calorie deficit. I wasn't inquiring about calorie counting or maintenance calories. ( My blood sugar is stable, so I am not even sure that it is a caloric deficit at this point)

    Secondly, these symptoms appear ANY TIME that I go too long between meals - regardless of how many calories I happen to consume within a given day. In other words- the symptoms are always there, whether I am losing or gaining weight. Not just yesterday.

    I have tracked ALL of my exercise and food consumption previously- for a period of six consecutive months. My weight plateaued about 6-7 weeks into the diet/exercise plan....and I continued to experience these "crash" symptoms daily while I was dieting and working out. Again- while I was NOT losing weight.

    So...What practical benefit is understanding what my exact maintenance calories are for my "perfect weight" ( that's what is implied when discussing maintenance/BMR calories), when maintaining a body mass of 20-25 lbs higher than my perfect weight is physically miserable on a daily basis ?? Again- this was not one day, or one week- it was over a period of six months. I feel like I have mentioned several times within this thread.

    Also- Paleo is not a "Fad". Eating clean is not a "Fad". Cancer runs in my family and any effort I can make to stay away from pills, powders, processed foods, sugars, processed meats- and find some enjoyment and success from it is positive.

    Additionally, I don't think that anyone commenting here is a physician OR psychotherapist- including you- which means that most of the comments here are based upon personal experience and anecdotal evidence. Although I value the comments and feedback I receive here immensely- I also reserve the right to ignore the "angry drivers".

    My food diary was opened today.

    Thank you

    I really appreciate your comments, I will respond as soon as I have more time to do so.
  • yirara
    yirara Posts: 9,943 Member
    edited August 2017
    @Ready if you get those problems every time you go on a deficit, or even without then you need to know at what time it pops up and eat something a while before that. When this 'while' is and 'what' is something you need to find out.

    To be honest, it does sound a lot like the crashes I've been experiencing. All that helped for me when not working out was very frequent eating, in my case mostly carbs as I don't digest fats well and protein leaves me hungry. Try many small meals across the day, snack vegetables like paprika, carrots or cucumber in bulk, or other things you might come up with.

    Like I said: for me, what actually helps is strength training, tough bodyweight routines or weight lifting. Something that gives my muscles something to think about. But again, everyone is different.
  • skymningen
    skymningen Posts: 532 Member
    It might be anxiety related, it might be some allergic reaction to specific foods (or other allergens in your environment) but generally, I feel that right now you are running a self-feeding cycle. You expect it to happen, you dread it and it will happen. You might, to some extent have developed a psychosomatic reaction to your focus on eating clean, losing weight, being healthy and so on. I still think it originally was/is based on something physiologic, but now it could have a strong psychosomatic component to it, increased by the stress you put yourself under.
    Try to reduce stress (emotional stress) in general. Find a comfortable, stressless way of eating and working out. See if that helps you with your symptoms.
  • Ready2Getcut
    Ready2Getcut Posts: 68 Member
    DX2JX2 wrote: »
    Ready2Getcut wrote: »
    I'm curious, how do you know that your maintenance calories - "before exercise"- are exactly 2600-2700? Is that something that you have calculated from experience ( measuring your caloric intake / body mass over time), or is that something I could get from a generic "calculator".

    I used MFP and other generic internet calculators as a starting point and leaned towards the more conservative ones (that is, the ones that gave me the lower calorie totals). Since then I calibrated the targets based on experience (weekly intake, weekly exercise, and weight loss results) and found that I lose right around 2 lbs per week on 1600-1700 calories a day. Since two pounds loss per week is about 7000 calories, this tells me that my maintenance calorie amount is right around 2600 or 2700 (assuming no exercise).

    I've found that MFP is a little too low for my tastes (it recommends a target of 1500 per day for me to lose 1.8 pounds per week) and leaves me feeling pretty low energy.

    The Body Weight Planner put out by the USDA (https://www.supertracker.usda.gov/bwp/) seems to be a sweet spot for me. It recommended me a target of about 1650 to lose 2 pounds a week (before exercise) and I've found that to be pretty accurate and sustainable. As an added bonus, the scientists behind it actually calibrated the algorithm against actual test subject experiences before they released it to the public.

    Thanks for the info!
  • noirelb
    noirelb Posts: 216 Member
    Ready2Getcut wrote: »
    Ok ladies ..and gentlemen, I want everyone who has been awesome enough to have contributed or commented within this thread to know- that even though my comments might not have seemed welcoming, I have been listening and thinking about your input.

    What I've been hearing over and over is that I need to slow down and chill out...I can see that makes sense because, as mentioned before- I keep physically injuring myself while working out. I think that is evidence which confirms what you are saying. I just have had trouble recognizing it. ( And, obviously, I have trouble sustaining weight loss)

    So...here's what I'm going to do:
    1). Go for a 500-1000 calorie deficit per day. At the most. Monitor how i feel, and adjust my diet accordingly. Track my intake and how i feel in a journal. Check back with others here.
    2). Concentrate on gentle exercise - walking....hiking whenever possible. There is an awesome Yoga program here locally. I hate Yoga but I know the woman who runs the program and she keeps telling me to come in. I love resistance training weights, but keep it low key.
    3). Place my personal health as higher importance than business, project deadlines, meeting others' expectations, stress in general, etc.

    Sound about right to you?

    AMEN and have a burrito with your quinoa salad :smiley:
  • Ready2Getcut
    Ready2Getcut Posts: 68 Member
    edited August 2017
    yirara wrote: »
    @Ready if you get those problems every time you go on a deficit, or even without then you need to know at what time it pops up and eat something a while before that. When this 'while' is and 'what' is something you need to find out.

    To be honest, it does sound a lot like the crashes I've been experiencing. All that helped for me when not working out was very frequent eating, in my case mostly carbs as I don't digest fats well and protein leaves me hungry. Try many small meals across the day, snack vegetables like paprika, carrots or cucumber in bulk, or other things you might come up with.

    Like I said: for me, what actually helps is strength training, tough bodyweight routines or weight lifting. Something that gives my muscles something to think about. But again, everyone is different.

    Your comment "gives my muscles something to think about" , you know that's interesting because the older I get, the more I can begin to see how thought process manifests within the body. I tend to be an "overthinker" and I really enjoy resistance training too. It requires a very different mindset than repetitive, medium intensity cardio. To me- activities like jogging and other cardio workouts require that you forget about what you're doing with your body and just get lost in the action of doing it. Anyway...

    With regards to what you're saying about mindful eating- I try not to EVER put food in my mouth unless I feel really hungry. Sometimes I will feel just tired ( but not hungry)- and then have a really ugly crash. It's been really tough for me to interpret my body's signals. Really tough. The crashes can be really punishing- and it's been going on for five years.

    From what I'm hearing here- I think that relaxation and really keeping track of my diet is the key. That's all I know right now.
  • Ready2Getcut
    Ready2Getcut Posts: 68 Member
    edited August 2017
    skymningen wrote: »
    It might be anxiety related, it might be some allergic reaction to specific foods (or other allergens in your environment) but generally, I feel that right now you are running a self-feeding cycle. You expect it to happen, you dread it and it will happen. You might, to some extent have developed a psychosomatic reaction to your focus on eating clean, losing weight, being healthy and so on. I still think it originally was/is based on something physiologic, but now it could have a strong psychosomatic component to it, increased by the stress you put yourself under.
    Try to reduce stress (emotional stress) in general. Find a comfortable, stressless way of eating and working out. See if that helps you with your symptoms.

    I have wondered about exactly what you describe, a "self feeding cycle"...
    so...between 2009-2011 I lost my business ( and everything else really- my home, investment properties, my relationship, pets, health ). It was a really prolonged period of intense stress. I ended up having alot of weird physical symptoms, and then this whole "crash" cycle that I described in my first post started showing up. Early 2012 was the first time that I noticed it.

    During that period of time, I developed a severe eczema-like rash on my forearms. That rash will still appear whenever I have stress in my life- particularly stress related to immediate deadlines, intense workload, etc.
  • Ready2Getcut
    Ready2Getcut Posts: 68 Member
    edited August 2017
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    You can do what you feel is right for you, that's every bit your right. But what you are doing doesn't seem to be working and is not translating well into long term sustainable habits. Obesity is a known and proven risk factor closely linked to some types of cancer, much more so than any weak and debatable connections any named diet tries to cherry pick. Paleo can be an effective, sustainable, and stress free diet, but when it's none of these things it turns into a fad done for the sole purpose of restricting and being stubborn, and may even be harmful. Chronic stress has been linked to a host of ailments. If I were you I would go the route that yields the most benefits (even if it's not as prefect as you want it to be) if the alternative is unsustainable and stressful. It's your diet and your choice, of course. That's as far as strangers on the internet wanting to help can go, what you choose to do with that info is up to you.

    I totally agree with you and I appreciate your comments. It's just not as simple as "stop being stressed out and start behaving more sustainably". It's a big change and it requires alot of thought- for me anyway lol
  • MommaGem2017
    MommaGem2017 Posts: 405 Member
    Ready2Getcut wrote: »
    Ok ladies ..and gentlemen, I want everyone who has been awesome enough to have contributed or commented within this thread to know- that even though my comments might not have seemed welcoming, I have been listening and thinking about your input.

    What I've been hearing over and over is that I need to slow down and chill out...I can see that makes sense because, as mentioned before- I keep physically injuring myself while working out. I think that is evidence which confirms what you are saying. I just have had trouble recognizing it. ( And, obviously, I have trouble sustaining weight loss)

    So...here's what I'm going to do:
    1). Go for a 500-1000 calorie deficit per day- at the absolute most. Monitor how i feel, and adjust my diet accordingly. Track my intake and how i feel in a journal. Check back with others here.
    2). Concentrate on gentle exercise - walking....hiking whenever possible. There is an awesome Yoga program here locally. I hate Yoga but I know the woman who runs the program and she keeps telling me to come in. I love resistance training w/ weights, but keep it low key.
    3). Place my personal health as higher importance than business, project deadlines, meeting others' expectations, stress in general, etc.

    Sound about right to you?

    That sounds fantastic! And the yoga class may help you relieve some of the stress symptoms you've been experiencing. Wishing you the best!
  • Ready2Getcut
    Ready2Getcut Posts: 68 Member
    MommaGem2017 wrote: »
    Ready2Getcut wrote: »
    Ok ladies ..and gentlemen, I want everyone who has been awesome enough to have contributed or commented within this thread to know- that even though my comments might not have seemed welcoming, I have been listening and thinking about your input.

    What I've been hearing over and over is that I need to slow down and chill out...I can see that makes sense because, as mentioned before- I keep physically injuring myself while working out. I think that is evidence which confirms what you are saying. I just have had trouble recognizing it. ( And, obviously, I have trouble sustaining weight loss)

    So...here's what I'm going to do:
    1). Go for a 500-1000 calorie deficit per day- at the absolute most. Monitor how i feel, and adjust my diet accordingly. Track my intake and how i feel in a journal. Check back with others here.
    2). Concentrate on gentle exercise - walking....hiking whenever possible. There is an awesome Yoga program here locally. I hate Yoga but I know the woman who runs the program and she keeps telling me to come in. I love resistance training w/ weights, but keep it low key.
    3). Place my personal health as higher importance than business, project deadlines, meeting others' expectations, stress in general, etc.

    Sound about right to you?

    That sounds fantastic! And the yoga class may help you relieve some of the stress symptoms you've been experiencing. Wishing you the best!

    Thank you so much!!
  • Katiebear_81
    Katiebear_81 Posts: 719 Member
    If you really enjoy lifting, you can do it, but don't do it as often. If you have high stress in your life (which it sounds like), your central nervous system may take longer to recover. Which is fine... so maybe lift once or twice a week. :)
  • Ready2Getcut
    Ready2Getcut Posts: 68 Member
    Katiebear_81 wrote: »
    If you really enjoy lifting, you can do it, but don't do it as often. If you have high stress in your life (which it sounds like), your central nervous system may take longer to recover. Which is fine... so maybe lift once or twice a week. :)

    Sounds like a good idea- Thank you!
  • Ready2Getcut
    Ready2Getcut Posts: 68 Member
    noirelb wrote: »
    Ready2Getcut wrote: »
    Ok ladies ..and gentlemen, I want everyone who has been awesome enough to have contributed or commented within this thread to know- that even though my comments might not have seemed welcoming, I have been listening and thinking about your input.

    What I've been hearing over and over is that I need to slow down and chill out...I can see that makes sense because, as mentioned before- I keep physically injuring myself while working out. I think that is evidence which confirms what you are saying. I just have had trouble recognizing it. ( And, obviously, I have trouble sustaining weight loss)

    So...here's what I'm going to do:
    1). Go for a 500-1000 calorie deficit per day. At the most. Monitor how i feel, and adjust my diet accordingly. Track my intake and how i feel in a journal. Check back with others here.
    2). Concentrate on gentle exercise - walking....hiking whenever possible. There is an awesome Yoga program here locally. I hate Yoga but I know the woman who runs the program and she keeps telling me to come in. I love resistance training weights, but keep it low key.
    3). Place my personal health as higher importance than business, project deadlines, meeting others' expectations, stress in general, etc.

    Sound about right to you?

    AMEN and have a burrito with your quinoa salad :smiley:

    OK I will! Thank you :)
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    Ready2Getcut wrote: »
    skymningen wrote: »
    It might be anxiety related, it might be some allergic reaction to specific foods (or other allergens in your environment) but generally, I feel that right now you are running a self-feeding cycle. You expect it to happen, you dread it and it will happen. You might, to some extent have developed a psychosomatic reaction to your focus on eating clean, losing weight, being healthy and so on. I still think it originally was/is based on something physiologic, but now it could have a strong psychosomatic component to it, increased by the stress you put yourself under.
    Try to reduce stress (emotional stress) in general. Find a comfortable, stressless way of eating and working out. See if that helps you with your symptoms.

    I have wondered about exactly what you describe, a "self feeding cycle"...
    so...between 2009-2011 I lost my business ( and everything else really- my home, investment properties, my relationship, pets, health ). It was a really prolonged period of intense stress. I ended up having alot of weird physical symptoms, and then this whole "crash" cycle that I described in my first post started showing up. Early 2012 was the first time that I noticed it.

    During that period of time, I developed a severe eczema-like rash on my forearms. That rash will still appear whenever I have stress in my life- particularly stress related to immediate deadlines, intense workload, etc.

    Ay yi yi yi, sorry to hear this.

    Yoga may help. It sure helped me after my divorce (which came about after a long illness, which also resulted in the loss of two jobs.)
  • Ready2Getcut
    Ready2Getcut Posts: 68 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Ready2Getcut wrote: »
    skymningen wrote: »
    It might be anxiety related, it might be some allergic reaction to specific foods (or other allergens in your environment) but generally, I feel that right now you are running a self-feeding cycle. You expect it to happen, you dread it and it will happen. You might, to some extent have developed a psychosomatic reaction to your focus on eating clean, losing weight, being healthy and so on. I still think it originally was/is based on something physiologic, but now it could have a strong psychosomatic component to it, increased by the stress you put yourself under.
    Try to reduce stress (emotional stress) in general. Find a comfortable, stressless way of eating and working out. See if that helps you with your symptoms.

    I have wondered about exactly what you describe, a "self feeding cycle"...
    so...between 2009-2011 I lost my business ( and everything else really- my home, investment properties, my relationship, pets, health ). It was a really prolonged period of intense stress. I ended up having alot of weird physical symptoms, and then this whole "crash" cycle that I described in my first post started showing up. Early 2012 was the first time that I noticed it.

    During that period of time, I developed a severe eczema-like rash on my forearms. That rash will still appear whenever I have stress in my life- particularly stress related to immediate deadlines, intense workload, etc.

    Ay yi yi yi, sorry to hear this.

    Yoga may help. It sure helped me after my divorce (which came about after a long illness, which also resulted in the loss of two jobs.)

    Thank you- I think it sounds like really good idea
  • ritzvin
    ritzvin Posts: 2,860 Member
    Ready2Getcut wrote: »
    noirelb wrote: »
    Ready2Getcut wrote: »
    HeidiCooksSupper wrote: »
    How much of a calorie deficit? Are you suddenly dropping a thousand or more calories a day? Are you changing what you eat? Have you had your blood glucose checked?

    So far today, I have had about 1200 cal of whole foods....I am about 280 lbs and not sedentary. My normal caloric intake is probably 2500 cal+.

    My blood glucose is between 90 and 116 today. Ketones are normal...

    Well now I'm voting simply too low in calories... Well its after dinner time here so do you mean that 1200 is all you will have pr is it earlier where you live?

    it's 8:00 pm here- I just ate some peanuts, so I'm over 1200 calories now. The things is that I experience these symptoms on a regular basis....and I'm GAINING weight. That is why I'm pushing so hard to restrict calories.

    Over what time period are you "gaining weight", and how much weight? Weight normally fluctuates due to water weight. You can see a several pound difference within the same day.
  • Ready2Getcut
    Ready2Getcut Posts: 68 Member
    edited August 2017
    ritzvin wrote: »
    Ready2Getcut wrote: »
    noirelb wrote: »
    Ready2Getcut wrote: »
    HeidiCooksSupper wrote: »
    How much of a calorie deficit? Are you suddenly dropping a thousand or more calories a day? Are you changing what you eat? Have you had your blood glucose checked?

    So far today, I have had about 1200 cal of whole foods....I am about 280 lbs and not sedentary. My normal caloric intake is probably 2500 cal+.

    My blood glucose is between 90 and 116 today. Ketones are normal...

    Well now I'm voting simply too low in calories... Well its after dinner time here so do you mean that 1200 is all you will have pr is it earlier where you live?

    it's 8:00 pm here- I just ate some peanuts, so I'm over 1200 calories now. The things is that I experience these symptoms on a regular basis....and I'm GAINING weight. That is why I'm pushing so hard to restrict calories.

    Over what time period are you "gaining weight", and how much weight? Weight normally fluctuates due to water weight. You can see a several pound difference within the same day.

    on a weekly/monthly basis- also year over year :( It's like it just gets harder every year

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