Crossfit for Heavier Beginners?
Replies
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stanmann571 wrote: »
High-intensity is a fundamental part of crossfit. If someone can't do the intensity, then it's really just random circuit training.
It's like people saying they're doing "tabata planks".
Certainly if someone's goal is to do crossfit, it would be worthwhile to start there at a low level and work your way up. But if not, I was just pointing out that it's an expensive way to do basic conditioning.
Intensity is relative. Scaling allows the individual to perform at the appropriate intensity level for their fitness. It's not random circuit training. And crossfit is a lot more than just conditioning, there is strength work, depending on the individual box programming, it could be fairly significant.
Resistance and workload may be relative, but intensity is not. 80% intensity is 80% intensity-- for one it might mean lifting 50lbs and another 200lbs, but the effect on each body will still be 80%.
You're confusedThe only way you can "scale" the workload for someone who is less fit is to decrease the intensity and likely the volume. And once you do that---it's not crossfit. It's circuit training designed to condition someone so that they can do crossfit.
If 80% intensity for A is walking 100 meters and picking up a broom stick 10 times and 80% intensity for B is sprinting 400 meters and snatching 100 kilos 10 times
That's called scaling intensity.
This.
You gave a textbook example of the relativity of intensity. Immediately after saying it didn't exist...0 -
These 2 statements say the same thing.Crossfit is not defined by a particular intensity level, that's pretty laughable. 79% intensity, nope, not crossfit yet...80.5% yay! Welcome to crossfit!
" Bike, run, swim, row, etc, hard and fast. Five or six days per week mix these elements in as many combinations and patterns as creativity will allow. Routine is the enemy. Keep workouts short and intense. " --Gary Glassman
Maybe he doesn't know what Crossfit is either.
You aren't supporting your case.
100% intensity for a person of low fitness is still 100% intensity...for them. What particular movements they do or pace at which they are able to perform them, is going to be vastly different from someone who is highly trained. That doesn't mean they aren't trying or working out with intensity. I don't know how to make it any simpler.
You: "intensity is relative--'scaling' allow the individual to perform at the appropriate intensity level for their fitness"
Me: That's changing workload, not intensity. "intensity" is working at a certain percentage of maximum. "Workload" is the resistance, weight, speed, etc necessary to achieve an "intensity".
I say that scaling is how you adjust the workout to set the intensity.
You say that adjusting workload is how you set the intensity.
Are you trying to say that a beginner cannot work to a high enough percentage of their maximum for it to be called "high intensity"?
I think we are just getting bogged down in the semantics of the words "intensity", "workload", and "scaling". By using "intensity" imprecisely, it makes it sound like you are saying two different things.
You can adjust a workload, to allow 2 people of different fitness levels to work at the same intensity (for them).
You can change a workload,movement, etc to reduce the intensity of the workout so that a beginner or someone with less fitness/stamina can do a stripped down version of the workout while they improve their fitness and endurance.
Both could be referred to as "scaling" the workout, but they are completely different things.
In scenario A, the goal might be to squat at 80% intensity. For Guy 1, that might be 160 pounds; for Bro 1, that might be 280 lbs. Both are working at 80%, it feels roughly the same for both, but they are doing different workloads. You have "scaled" the workload, but not the intensity.
In scenario B, the goal is to work at 80% effort for the following circuit: box jumps, row, and kettle bell snatch. Bro 1 can do all three at 80% effort. Average Guy doesn't have the ability or endurance to do those, so he does the following: step up, row, push press. Since he is fairly new, we have him work at 60% effort. You have "scaled" both the workload and the intensity, but in a different way than for scenario A. In this case, "scaling" means something different--the workouts are different.
Except that the goal is still to get him to 80%.. so you're either not understanding the point, or deliberately misconstruing it.
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stanmann571 wrote: »
Except that the goal is still to get him to 80%.. so you're either not understanding the point, or deliberately misconstruing it.
Except what he's saying is that why pay for crossfit when you're just working on the goal to be able to get to 80%? Spend less money at a normal gym to build up endurance and stamina so you can join crossfit when you can do 80% intensity. If we're having him "scale" to only 60% intensity then is he REALLY doing crossfit?
(I have no bone in this fight, I just like discussions on semantics)
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Juniper210 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Except that the goal is still to get him to 80%.. so you're either not understanding the point, or deliberately misconstruing it.
Except what he's saying is that why pay for crossfit when you're just working on the goal to be able to get to 80%? Spend less money at a normal gym to build up endurance and stamina so you can join crossfit when you can do 80% intensity. If we're having him "scale" to only 60% intensity then is he REALLY doing crossfit?
(I have no bone in this fight, I just like discussions on semantics)
Yes, that's where I started. But I broke my own rule -- which is when someone asks a direct question, just answer the question and not soapbox. I guess I was just in the mood.
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stanmann571 wrote: »
These 2 statements say the same thing.Crossfit is not defined by a particular intensity level, that's pretty laughable. 79% intensity, nope, not crossfit yet...80.5% yay! Welcome to crossfit!
" Bike, run, swim, row, etc, hard and fast. Five or six days per week mix these elements in as many combinations and patterns as creativity will allow. Routine is the enemy. Keep workouts short and intense. " --Gary Glassman
Maybe he doesn't know what Crossfit is either.
You aren't supporting your case.
100% intensity for a person of low fitness is still 100% intensity...for them. What particular movements they do or pace at which they are able to perform them, is going to be vastly different from someone who is highly trained. That doesn't mean they aren't trying or working out with intensity. I don't know how to make it any simpler.
You: "intensity is relative--'scaling' allow the individual to perform at the appropriate intensity level for their fitness"
Me: That's changing workload, not intensity. "intensity" is working at a certain percentage of maximum. "Workload" is the resistance, weight, speed, etc necessary to achieve an "intensity".
I say that scaling is how you adjust the workout to set the intensity.
You say that adjusting workload is how you set the intensity.
Are you trying to say that a beginner cannot work to a high enough percentage of their maximum for it to be called "high intensity"?
I think we are just getting bogged down in the semantics of the words "intensity", "workload", and "scaling". By using "intensity" imprecisely, it makes it sound like you are saying two different things.
You can adjust a workload, to allow 2 people of different fitness levels to work at the same intensity (for them).
You can change a workload,movement, etc to reduce the intensity of the workout so that a beginner or someone with less fitness/stamina can do a stripped down version of the workout while they improve their fitness and endurance.
Both could be referred to as "scaling" the workout, but they are completely different things.
In scenario A, the goal might be to squat at 80% intensity. For Guy 1, that might be 160 pounds; for Bro 1, that might be 280 lbs. Both are working at 80%, it feels roughly the same for both, but they are doing different workloads. You have "scaled" the workload, but not the intensity.
In scenario B, the goal is to work at 80% effort for the following circuit: box jumps, row, and kettle bell snatch. Bro 1 can do all three at 80% effort. Average Guy doesn't have the ability or endurance to do those, so he does the following: step up, row, push press. Since he is fairly new, we have him work at 60% effort. You have "scaled" both the workload and the intensity, but in a different way than for scenario A. In this case, "scaling" means something different--the workouts are different.
Except that the goal is still to get him to 80%.. so you're either not understanding the point, or deliberately misconstruing it.
???
I was clarifying different workout terms, not programming workouts.
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Yes, you can start crossfit at any level. When they scale the workouts to your ability you are still pushing and getting stronger and after so much time you'll be able to do the workout as prescribed. I started crossfit 4 months ago at 270 lbs, I'm down 33 from that now. You'll pay about $150 a month for unlimited box time. And the value in that is so high. It's like getting a personal training session every day of the week, most gyms will give nutrition advice, and you get the camaraderie of the community. I will never go back to a regular gym. At least not anytime soon. Yes I'm scaling workouts but at my weight and ability they are still super intense. I say go for it! What do you have to lose?0
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Juniper210 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Except that the goal is still to get him to 80%.. so you're either not understanding the point, or deliberately misconstruing it.
Except what he's saying is that why pay for crossfit when you're just working on the goal to be able to get to 80%? Spend less money at a normal gym to build up endurance and stamina so you can join crossfit when you can do 80% intensity. If we're having him "scale" to only 60% intensity then is he REALLY doing crossfit?
(I have no bone in this fight, I just like discussions on semantics)
Yes, that's where I started. But I broke my own rule -- which is when someone asks a direct question, just answer the question and not soapbox. I guess I was just in the mood.
Your definition of scaling is vastly different. The one where you described athletes doing 2 different weights for squats isn't scaling.
Scaling is to allow both athletes to work at the desired intesity like in the 2nd example, except both are working at 80% not 80&60.1 -
MaryYoungmark wrote: »Yes, you can start crossfit at any level. When they scale the workouts to your ability you are still pushing and getting stronger and after so much time you'll be able to do the workout as prescribed. I started crossfit 4 months ago at 270 lbs, I'm down 33 from that now. You'll pay about $150 a month for unlimited box time. And the value in that is so high. It's like getting a personal training session every day of the week, most gyms will give nutrition advice, and you get the camaraderie of the community. I will never go back to a regular gym. At least not anytime soon. Yes I'm scaling workouts but at my weight and ability they are still super intense. I say go for it! What do you have to lose?
You know, I had not thought about it in those terms- I admit I looked at the price at my local boxes and was struggling to justify that cost to my budget.
Congratulations on your success so far!
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Juniper210 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Except that the goal is still to get him to 80%.. so you're either not understanding the point, or deliberately misconstruing it.
Except what he's saying is that why pay for crossfit when you're just working on the goal to be able to get to 80%? Spend less money at a normal gym to build up endurance and stamina so you can join crossfit when you can do 80% intensity. If we're having him "scale" to only 60% intensity then is he REALLY doing crossfit?
(I have no bone in this fight, I just like discussions on semantics)
Because crossfit is for joiners who need to be told what to do when and how.
If you're already able to do your own programming, then you don't need crossfit.1 -
If you want to try crossfit before committing to it, check out Groupon. That's what I did, for $30 I took 8 "on-ramp" classes. They teach the fundamentals and put you through a workout or WOD. If you like it, then you can decide to join.2
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I started CF 3 months ago & was very intimidated. I started at right under 300 lbs so I am heavier than most of the people at the box. Everything can be scaled. You want to find the right place for you & make sure they are working with you to modify movements for what you can do right now. I am down 23 lbs & have even started their nutrition program. I agree with Mary that I was overwhelmed by the price of it. It is like having a personal trainer for every workout. You will also get some awesome encouragement from other members cheering you on!! That helps so much to when I am struggling to finish or the last one. I would say go for it!! Be consistent in going a few times a week to get adjusted....even if your sore, keep moving!1
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Thanks everyone! I am going to check it out in a few more months
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High-intensity is a fundamental part of crossfit. If someone can't do the intensity, then it's really just random circuit training.
It's like people saying they're doing "tabata planks".
Certainly if someone's goal is to do crossfit, it would be worthwhile to start there at a low level and work your way up. But if not, I was just pointing out that it's an expensive way to do basic conditioning.
Intensity is relative. Scaling allows the individual to perform at the appropriate intensity level for their fitness. It's not random circuit training. And crossfit is a lot more than just conditioning, there is strength work, depending on the individual box programming, it could be fairly significant.
Resistance and workload may be relative, but intensity is not. 80% intensity is 80% intensity-- for one it might mean lifting 50lbs and another 200lbs, but the effect on each body will still be 80%.
The only way you can "scale" the workload for someone who is less fit is to decrease the intensity and likely the volume. And once you do that---it's not crossfit. It's circuit training designed to condition someone so that they can do crossfit.
Crossfit defines itself as focused on "constantly varied, high-intensity, functional movement". Now a facility can expand its services to include other things as accessories to crossfit, but these are not unique to that business.
Again, I am only making the point that someone starting out who is likely not conditioned to do crossfit does not have to pay a premium to go to a CF facility to go through that conditioning process. (Actually I'm not even doing that anymore--this is just for fun).
So at what point does it become not crossfit? Do you have to RX everything to be doing crossfit, and everything else is circuit training? Was my workout yesterday not crossfit because I used an 18 lb kettlebell instead of 28, and used 55 lbs for cleans instead of 65? If I have to use bands to assist with pullups, does that mean I didn't do crossfit? Or if I did 4 rounds instead of 5?0 -
BrunetteRunner87 wrote: »
High-intensity is a fundamental part of crossfit. If someone can't do the intensity, then it's really just random circuit training.
It's like people saying they're doing "tabata planks".
Certainly if someone's goal is to do crossfit, it would be worthwhile to start there at a low level and work your way up. But if not, I was just pointing out that it's an expensive way to do basic conditioning.
Intensity is relative. Scaling allows the individual to perform at the appropriate intensity level for their fitness. It's not random circuit training. And crossfit is a lot more than just conditioning, there is strength work, depending on the individual box programming, it could be fairly significant.
Resistance and workload may be relative, but intensity is not. 80% intensity is 80% intensity-- for one it might mean lifting 50lbs and another 200lbs, but the effect on each body will still be 80%.
The only way you can "scale" the workload for someone who is less fit is to decrease the intensity and likely the volume. And once you do that---it's not crossfit. It's circuit training designed to condition someone so that they can do crossfit.
Crossfit defines itself as focused on "constantly varied, high-intensity, functional movement". Now a facility can expand its services to include other things as accessories to crossfit, but these are not unique to that business.
Again, I am only making the point that someone starting out who is likely not conditioned to do crossfit does not have to pay a premium to go to a CF facility to go through that conditioning process. (Actually I'm not even doing that anymore--this is just for fun).
So at what point does it become not crossfit? Do you have to RX everything to be doing crossfit, and everything else is circuit training? Was my workout yesterday not crossfit because I used an 18 lb kettlebell instead of 28, and used 55 lbs for cleans instead of 65? If I have to use bands to assist with pullups, does that mean I didn't do crossfit? Or if I did 4 rounds instead of 5?
I totally disagree with that whole line of thinking. CrossFit is scaleable and adaptable, and if you're in a box doing it, you're doing it.
You're doing CrossFit if you're taking part in a program at a box that has paid to use the name CrossFit. There's no magical point where you're "doing CrossFit" based on your skill or fitness level.1 -
Do it!!! the trainer will be able to help you with modifications when needed. When I started, I was in need of ALOT of modifications and I still do, but not as many. Never a better time to start than NOW!!! Keep us posted!!1
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It's fine. Just make sure you have a quality instructor/guide who knows how to keep you scaled down. There are some legitimately dangerous wingnuts in Crossfit Land....1
This discussion has been closed.
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