Ketogenic Diet
cocolove444
Posts: 4 Member
Would like to know who has had success in losing weight while following a Ketogenic diet.
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Replies
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Some people have. Others don't. Keto is no success for weightloss. It still comes down to eating less calories than you need. Do you want to eat like this for the rest of your life? If not then don't do it as you only learn how to eat keto while losing weight. Once you switch back to your normal diet you'll most likely gain weight again as you don't know how much to eat.4
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Keto is just fine, I've been doing it for 1 year, lost 48 lbs. Aside from the mental clarity, being metabolic flexible is very beneficial to the body, not to mention the anti aging, cancer and Alzheimers and heart disease prenvention benefits. Look it up,also, kcals in vs kcals out is a myth, 1000 kcals of carbs/sugar is nowhere close to being the same as 1000 kcals of rich nutrient foods. I would argue that it is one of the easier diets, if you go out to a restaurant...get a steak (fatty one) and veggies....whats hard about that?30
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Agree with what @yirara said. The very best thing you can do for yourself to be successful is to find a way to eat that is good for your body, good for your soul (by that I mean that it satisfies you and doesn't leave you with yearnings for food that takes you away from your goals), and is sustainable in the long run. You can learn a lot from any named diet out there, but you have to tweak your own way of eating to be successful.
I do well with low carb. I have diabetes and I need to watch my sugar and starches very carefully. That doesn't mean I won't eat bread or ice cream or potatoes; it does mean that I'm figuring out what balance of things gets me and keeps me healthy. This will be a lifelong process. It's supposed to be.
In short: try keto or LC if you like; you'll learn something about yourself. But it's not magic, and it isn't right for everyone. And give the Low Carber Daily Forum a try, there's lots of good information there.3 -
I do not fully agree with the first reply. Yes, everyone is different. I have continued to have pretty good success using keto. The biggest plus for me is that I have a LOT less cravings with keto than I've had with any other eating style. In short, here's my best resources that I use:
Background information:
eatingacademy.com (A wealth of information from a medical professional's personal perspective and has some of his research.) (I'm still working through this slowly -- it's a TON of information.)
Understanding caloric/macronutrient intake needs:
Keto calculator (a GREAT starting point for personalizing macronutrients -- update it with your weight every week!): https://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/
Calorie calculator/Calorie variation (zig-zag to help break plateaus): https://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm
Be aware of your sodium/potassium/magnesium intake as you go into this. "Keto flu" is something a lot of people go through, but it can be minimized/avoided with thoughtful planning. I used to have a ton of carbs and unhealthy food. The first few days were pretty tough, but once you're settled into it with a good balance, it feels great!
Also, here are a couple of resources I have personally found to be valuable as I've gone into this head-first.
MFP Food planning and tracking using "net carb" ingredients (just be careful to double-check against a label or a reliable database (such as USDA's national nutrient database: https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/search/list).
TERRAfit challenges. This is an outside program, and is not necessarily ketogenic, but I work keto within it to help my accountability. If you'd like a program to help you stay on track with weight loss, building healthy habits, and with support from a team I recommend checking it out. There are 3, 4, and 12-week programs that start at various times (a few times a month in my experience). If you look into it, please consider using my link to get into it: https://terrafit.com/joinme/sara-blom.4 -
Also, I will add that a person can have a wonderfully diverse intake on keto. I have had success finding tweaks and alternatives to various foods which are delicious and keep me coming back for more! I do break keto every once in a while for potatoes or fresh homemade bread, but most of the time I'm "in." Fruits, vegetables, meats, legumes, dairy... it's all there. The main thing I have to do is control portions to keep my carb intake low and reasonably steady. I do six meals a day, and try to keep most meals under 12 carbs. Some are quite low, some are at the top of that scale.
I don't know if it makes a difference, but I generally try to focus my higher carb intake before and after workouts, as I am hoping it better supports my quest to become more fit.
Best of luck to you!3 -
What some people here write that keto keeps you happy and fuller for longer is not neccessary true. Everybody is different. Some people thrive on fats, other on protein, others on carbs. Saying that everybody feels great eating keto is just not true; it's too individual to generalise about this.0
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I am doing a medically-supervised keto diet for weight loss, taking all the supplements and water, very light exercise. It works for me. Have lost 155+ in 12 months. Have weekly weigh in on an InBody scale so know what I am losing (fat, water, muscle) so I can tweak my plan as needed. There are as many ways to be in ketosis as there are people so it may take a while to find a protocol that is right for your goals and appropriate for your lifestyle. Keep reading and learning, find professionals you respect, compare recommendations, involve your doctor (get labs regularly) and then trust your gut and your head. That is my theory.5
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What some people here write that keto keeps you happy and fuller for longer is not neccessary true. Everybody is different. Some people thrive on fats, other on protein, others on carbs. Saying that everybody feels great eating keto is just not true; it's too individual to generalise about this.
It was disappointing to see this post following my post, especially considering I mentioned "Yes, everyone is different," and followed with what was noted as my personal experience. Additionally, I guess I'm missing the post that talks about "everybody." Not even optishot's post says that, though the way I read it does imply that keto is possible for everyone to do/try.
Keto, done right, is a shift in the carb-protein-fat balance. A person will get a variety of foods and all three macronutrients still. Maybe it doesn't work for some people, and that's fine, but I personally wouldn't shut the door before trying something that has a track record of pretty decent success and sustainability as a lifestyle when done right.10 -
I liked it in the beginning, lost only a little bit, purely because I realize I was not eating at deficit. The fats did not keep me satiated and I was still grazing and snacking (keto foods) all day. Although I kept my macros pretty strict at 75-80% fat, 20% protein, and 5% or less of carbs, it didn't make me lose any more weight than if I eat high carb and keep at deficit. The restrictions made me crave sugar and desserts so bad and keto desserts just don't do it for me. Now I eat anything I want as long as I'm at deficit and I am much more happier and satisfied. I just can't eat avocados, bacon and eggs for the rest of my life!1
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I have lost over 20 lbs on Keto since just before Mother's Day. Keto only, no exercise. I will admit, I was desperate. Nothing else was working for me. I had just turned 45 and started at 174 lbs. I would lose and regain the same 5-10 lbs over and over and over again working out and counting calories and/or carbs. With Keto, I focus a lot on getting healthy fats into my diet, and virtually everything I eat is clean. It has completely changed how I see food and how I eat. We had 3 birthdays and the 4th of July in a 2 week period, and I wasn't even tempted to eat cake or dessert!!! I WASN'T EVEN TEMPTED! I don't know if you can understand how completely HUGE that was for me, but trust me, it was huge.
(I don't cheat on Keto, although I probably have plenty of days when my macros aren't perfect. I do "lazy keto" and track mentally, but sometimes the actual MFP tracking increases my anxiety.)
For over 10 years I followed the AHA's recommendations and the USDA's recommendations on what to eat: complex carbs, fruits and veggies, lean meats, fats sparingly, and I gained weight. Now I eat fat all day long and fat is melting off of me. I eat olive oil, avocado and coconut oils, nuts, low carb veggies, meats and cheeses. I never have trouble finding something I can eat when we are out. Eliminating processed foods was something I wanted to do, but never actually achieved before Keto. For me, I know that I am eating 100% healthier than I was, and it has been an easy way of life for me to adapt to, because fat satisfies. But my body composition tells it best. I had a lot of extra weight on my tummy - weight that I have seen all my life on my aunts and mom. Weight that I knew was probably going to mark me for diabetes and heart disease. That belly fat is leaving my body.
I will say that the biggest success stories I see on the FB Ketogenic Success group are people who had a very large amount of weight to lose. Those starting under 200 lbs may not lose quite as rapidly, but they do lose. With almost 200,000 members, I've not personally seen even 1 "keto didn't work for me" post that wasn't either impatience (didn't give it enough time/I've been on Keto for one month and haven't lost anything) and/or ignorance (I'm eating fruit and beans, and keto isn't working!), so do your own research and decide. But for me, it's a lifechanger, and I will be Keto for life!11 -
14 lbs in one month on Keto. I am a believer.10
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I lost about 40 lbs using CICO and was pretty miserable. I was still losing at the rate of about a pound a week, so it was working. I switched to keto in October of last year and have been much happier and satisfied with what I am eating. I calculate my macros to give me the same calorie deficit I had before. I am still losing about a pound a week. I am much more content with the keto diet, and it seems pretty sustainable to me. I get bacon, eggs and coffee with HWC for breakfast (on a diet!). What is not to like?6
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Keto is just fine, I've been doing it for 1 year, lost 48 lbs. Aside from the mental clarity, being metabolic flexible is very beneficial to the body, not to mention the anti aging, cancer and Alzheimers and heart disease prenvention benefits. Look it up,also, kcals in vs kcals out is a myth, 1000 kcals of carbs/sugar is nowhere close to being the same as 1000 kcals of rich nutrient foods. I would argue that it is one of the easier diets, if you go out to a restaurant...get a steak (fatty one) and veggies....whats hard about that?
do you have any links to back up the claims that keto is anti aging,anti cancer and so on? I lost a lot of weight on a non keto diet(which I cant do due to health issues),I lost a lot of fat and improved my health markers. I do a low fat/low cholesterol diet (because of health issues) before I knew I had my health issue I tried keto and let me tell you I was sick (I dont mean just keto flu),I had no energy to even get out of bed, I had the nasty breath and sweat and my cholesterol went through the roof.
I did the diet because I have cholesterol issues(mine are hereditary but had no idea really) and was trying to get it down through diet alone. now I know that high fat and cholesterol for me can literally kill me(clog my arterie,cause heart attack,stroke,etc) as I have FH-familial hypercholesterolemia). so for me keto is a no go. I also lost my weight eating what I wanted and in moderation I made it fit. all your food is broken down as long as you dont have digestive issues, some foods are broken down slower if they have fiber in them compared to if they lack fiber. not to mention fruits,veggies,beans,legumes,and grains are carbs so is fiber,and carbs are sugar.
I eat a lot of carbs too most days Im over 200g. Im maintaining my weight purposely right now as Im trying to recomp for awhile. but even when I ate less calories and high carbs I still lost weight ,when I did keto for a month I lost maybe 7 lbs and I was doing it right,its just my body cant properly process fats and cholesterol like most people so for some,keto is not a way to eat.4 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
do you have any links to back up the claims that keto is anti aging,anti cancer and so on?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4215472/
"This review summarizes the evidence supporting the hypothesis that ketogenic diets may be safely used as an adjuvant therapy to conventional radiation and chemotherapies and discusses the proposed mechanisms by which ketogenic diets may enhance cancer cell therapeutic responses...
Increased recognition of the safety and efficacy of using ketogenic diets in the treatment of epilepsy has resulted in successful application of this dietary intervention to other disorders. The most notable and well-studied use of a ketogenic diet is for the treatment of obesity popularized by Dr. Robert Atkins (see Fig. 1) (Dr. Atkins Diet Revolution 1972). Ketogenic diets have also been shown to be beneficial in the treatment of patients with glucose transporter defects and other inborn metabolic disorders [24]. The diet is reported to show promise in slowing the progression of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis [25], and there is a growing body of evidence suggesting ketogenic diets may be beneficial in other neurodegenerative diseases including Alzheimer’s disease and Parkinson’s disease [26]. In addition, there are case reports and small case studies indicating improvement in patients with autism [27] depression [28], polycystic ovary syndrome [29], and type 2 diabetes mellitus [18]...
Recently, ketogenic diets have been studied as an adjuvant to cancer therapy in both animal models and human case reports. As early as 1987, Tisdale et al. saw decreased tumor weight and improved cachexia in mice with colon adenocarcinoma xenografts eating a ketogenic diet [30]. Additional studies have shown that ketogenic diets reduce tumor growth and improve survival in animal models of malignant glioma [31–33], colon cancer [34], gastric cancer [35], and prostate cancer [36–38]. Furthermore, ketogenic diets have been hypothesized, with some supporting evidence, to potentiate the effects of radiation in malignant glioma models [39] as well as in non-small cell lung cancer models [5]. Fasting, which also induces a state of ketosis, has been shown to enhance responsiveness to chemotherapy in pre-clinical cancer therapy models as well as possibly ameliorating some of the normal tissue side effects seen with chemotherapy [40]. Fasting cycles are also reported to retard the growth of tumors and sensitize a range of cancer cell types to chemotherapy [40,41]."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/
"Moreover, there is evidence from uncontrolled clinical trials and studies in animal models that the ketogenic diet can provide symptomatic and disease-modifying activity in a broad range of neurodegenerative disorders including Alzheimer’s disease and Parkinson’s disease, and may also be protective in traumatic brain injury and stroke. These observations are supported by studies in animal models and isolated cells that show that ketone bodies, especially β-hydroxybutyrate, confer neuroprotection against diverse types of cellular injury."4 -
A keto diet is considered anti-inflammatory, so yes, there is scientific proof that it reduces inflammation in your body (inflammation is what causes diseases like cancer and alzheimers). My Harvard trained GI doctor has me on a keto type diet and I've lost 50 lbs in about 10 months. Went from 235 to 185 and I am a 5'9" female, no exercise whatsoever until the last month. So yes it works, it depends on you what plans is "easiest" for you.6
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wonderflair wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
do you have any links to back up the claims that keto is anti aging,anti cancer and so on?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4215472/
"This review summarizes the evidence supporting the hypothesis that ketogenic diets may be safely used as an adjuvant therapy to conventional radiation and chemotherapies and discusses the proposed mechanisms by which ketogenic diets may enhance cancer cell therapeutic responses...
Increased recognition of the safety and efficacy of using ketogenic diets in the treatment of epilepsy has resulted in successful application of this dietary intervention to other disorders. The most notable and well-studied use of a ketogenic diet is for the treatment of obesity popularized by Dr. Robert Atkins (see Fig. 1) (Dr. Atkins Diet Revolution 1972). Ketogenic diets have also been shown to be beneficial in the treatment of patients with glucose transporter defects and other inborn metabolic disorders [24]. The diet is reported to show promise in slowing the progression of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis [25], and there is a growing body of evidence suggesting ketogenic diets may be beneficial in other neurodegenerative diseases including Alzheimer’s disease and Parkinson’s disease [26]. In addition, there are case reports and small case studies indicating improvement in patients with autism [27] depression [28], polycystic ovary syndrome [29], and type 2 diabetes mellitus [18]...
Recently, ketogenic diets have been studied as an adjuvant to cancer therapy in both animal models and human case reports. As early as 1987, Tisdale et al. saw decreased tumor weight and improved cachexia in mice with colon adenocarcinoma xenografts eating a ketogenic diet [30]. Additional studies have shown that ketogenic diets reduce tumor growth and improve survival in animal models of malignant glioma [31–33], colon cancer [34], gastric cancer [35], and prostate cancer [36–38]. Furthermore, ketogenic diets have been hypothesized, with some supporting evidence, to potentiate the effects of radiation in malignant glioma models [39] as well as in non-small cell lung cancer models [5]. Fasting, which also induces a state of ketosis, has been shown to enhance responsiveness to chemotherapy in pre-clinical cancer therapy models as well as possibly ameliorating some of the normal tissue side effects seen with chemotherapy [40]. Fasting cycles are also reported to retard the growth of tumors and sensitize a range of cancer cell types to chemotherapy [40,41]."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/
"Moreover, there is evidence from uncontrolled clinical trials and studies in animal models that the ketogenic diet can provide symptomatic and disease-modifying activity in a broad range of neurodegenerative disorders including Alzheimer’s disease and Parkinson’s disease, and may also be protective in traumatic brain injury and stroke. These observations are supported by studies in animal models and isolated cells that show that ketone bodies, especially β-hydroxybutyrate, confer neuroprotection against diverse types of cellular injury."
adjuvant:: one that helps or facilitates: such as
a : an ingredient (as in a prescription or a solution) that modifies the action of the principal ingredient
b : something (such as a drug or method) that enhances the effectiveness of medical treatment used chemotherapy as an adjuvant to surgery
c : a substance (such as one added to a vaccine) enhancing the immune response to an antigen
so with that said its used in conjuction(in addition) with say chemo and other therapies.I know ketos origin was to be used for those with seizure disorders and then they found that they also help those with type 2,pcos and insulin resistance. as for parkinsons and alzheimers most of those studies it states were done on rats/mice and the others were uncontrolled studies. it says nowhere in the post above that it involved humans. humans and rats are two different beasts in more ways that one.
o therefore keto alone is not going to prevent or put your cancer into remission. doesnt mean you will age more gracefully either. There have been many people who have done keto diets and still died from cancer. if keto was the cure all then most oncologist would recommend keto along with radiation/chemo. keto is just a another way of eating. sure for some it has its benefits but its not for everyone and not a cure all for everything.0 -
A keto diet is considered anti-inflammatory, so yes, there is scientific proof that it reduces inflammation in your body (inflammation is what causes diseases like cancer and alzheimers). My Harvard trained GI doctor has me on a keto type diet and I've lost 50 lbs in about 10 months. Went from 235 to 185 and I am a 5'9" female, no exercise whatsoever until the last month. So yes it works, it depends on you what plans is "easiest" for you.
you lost because you were in a deficit. if you were to eat over your maintenance calories every day you would gain weight. weight is lost in a deficit no matter what way of eating you have(vegan,vegetarian,paleo,lchf,hclf).1 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »A keto diet is considered anti-inflammatory, so yes, there is scientific proof that it reduces inflammation in your body (inflammation is what causes diseases like cancer and alzheimers). My Harvard trained GI doctor has me on a keto type diet and I've lost 50 lbs in about 10 months. Went from 235 to 185 and I am a 5'9" female, no exercise whatsoever until the last month. So yes it works, it depends on you what plans is "easiest" for you.
you lost because you were in a deficit. if you were to eat over your maintenance calories every day you would gain weight. weight is lost in a deficit no matter what way of eating you have(vegan,vegetarian,paleo,lchf,hclf).
This exactly. Deficit equals loss, no matter how or what you eat. On keto, consuming so much fat May satiate a person better than , let's say eating muffins and cake. But in the end, keto is still CICO. It doesn't magically burn fat because of the macros.0 -
Meant to say, *than eating muffins and cake*0
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CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »A keto diet is considered anti-inflammatory, so yes, there is scientific proof that it reduces inflammation in your body (inflammation is what causes diseases like cancer and alzheimers). My Harvard trained GI doctor has me on a keto type diet and I've lost 50 lbs in about 10 months. Went from 235 to 185 and I am a 5'9" female, no exercise whatsoever until the last month. So yes it works, it depends on you what plans is "easiest" for you.
you lost because you were in a deficit. if you were to eat over your maintenance calories every day you would gain weight. weight is lost in a deficit no matter what way of eating you have(vegan,vegetarian,paleo,lchf,hclf).
Yes, I am aware of that since I have greater than a 5th grade education. I never stated otherwise. I'm saying YES I lost weight on a keto diet and YES it has health benefits. I don't understand why some people get their panties in a twist over some people finding success in a different way than they may have.5 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »A keto diet is considered anti-inflammatory, so yes, there is scientific proof that it reduces inflammation in your body (inflammation is what causes diseases like cancer and alzheimers). My Harvard trained GI doctor has me on a keto type diet and I've lost 50 lbs in about 10 months. Went from 235 to 185 and I am a 5'9" female, no exercise whatsoever until the last month. So yes it works, it depends on you what plans is "easiest" for you.
you lost because you were in a deficit. if you were to eat over your maintenance calories every day you would gain weight. weight is lost in a deficit no matter what way of eating you have(vegan,vegetarian,paleo,lchf,hclf).
This exactly. Deficit equals loss, no matter how or what you eat. On keto, consuming so much fat May satiate a person better than , let's say eating muffins and cake. But in the end, keto is still CICO. It doesn't magically burn fat because of the macros.
I agree. I found that personally eating keto (and thus eliminating certain foods that I was addicted too--mainly sugar) curbed cravings, I wasn't nearly as hungry as eating a similar calorie diet where nothing was off limits. I had the personal experience that keto reduced my appetite a bit, cut all cravings for sugar/sweets and I ultimately feel better, more energy, less brain fog/lagging, joints don't hurt, etc. Keto is great for evening out blood sugar spikes that would normally cause me to feel ravenously hungry.
But like anything else, what works best for one, may not work best for another person.
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CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »A keto diet is considered anti-inflammatory, so yes, there is scientific proof that it reduces inflammation in your body (inflammation is what causes diseases like cancer and alzheimers). My Harvard trained GI doctor has me on a keto type diet and I've lost 50 lbs in about 10 months. Went from 235 to 185 and I am a 5'9" female, no exercise whatsoever until the last month. So yes it works, it depends on you what plans is "easiest" for you.
you lost because you were in a deficit. if you were to eat over your maintenance calories every day you would gain weight. weight is lost in a deficit no matter what way of eating you have(vegan,vegetarian,paleo,lchf,hclf).
Yes, I am aware of that since I have greater than a 5th grade education. I never stated otherwise. I'm saying YES I lost weight on a keto diet and YES it has health benefits. I don't understand why some people get their panties in a twist over some people finding success in a different way than they may have.
not getting panties in a twist and I lost weight on keto it just was not a healthy choice for me to continue due to my health issues. some people think keto is a magical way to lose weight and that you can lose weight even eating over maintenance. and I didnt knock your education or say you had a lack of it, you did.2 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »wonderflair wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
do you have any links to back up the claims that keto is anti aging,anti cancer and so on?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4215472/
"This review summarizes the evidence supporting the hypothesis that ketogenic diets may be safely used as an adjuvant therapy to conventional radiation and chemotherapies and discusses the proposed mechanisms by which ketogenic diets may enhance cancer cell therapeutic responses...
Increased recognition of the safety and efficacy of using ketogenic diets in the treatment of epilepsy has resulted in successful application of this dietary intervention to other disorders. The most notable and well-studied use of a ketogenic diet is for the treatment of obesity popularized by Dr. Robert Atkins (see Fig. 1) (Dr. Atkins Diet Revolution 1972). Ketogenic diets have also been shown to be beneficial in the treatment of patients with glucose transporter defects and other inborn metabolic disorders [24]. The diet is reported to show promise in slowing the progression of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis [25], and there is a growing body of evidence suggesting ketogenic diets may be beneficial in other neurodegenerative diseases including Alzheimer’s disease and Parkinson’s disease [26]. In addition, there are case reports and small case studies indicating improvement in patients with autism [27] depression [28], polycystic ovary syndrome [29], and type 2 diabetes mellitus [18]...
Recently, ketogenic diets have been studied as an adjuvant to cancer therapy in both animal models and human case reports. As early as 1987, Tisdale et al. saw decreased tumor weight and improved cachexia in mice with colon adenocarcinoma xenografts eating a ketogenic diet [30]. Additional studies have shown that ketogenic diets reduce tumor growth and improve survival in animal models of malignant glioma [31–33], colon cancer [34], gastric cancer [35], and prostate cancer [36–38]. Furthermore, ketogenic diets have been hypothesized, with some supporting evidence, to potentiate the effects of radiation in malignant glioma models [39] as well as in non-small cell lung cancer models [5]. Fasting, which also induces a state of ketosis, has been shown to enhance responsiveness to chemotherapy in pre-clinical cancer therapy models as well as possibly ameliorating some of the normal tissue side effects seen with chemotherapy [40]. Fasting cycles are also reported to retard the growth of tumors and sensitize a range of cancer cell types to chemotherapy [40,41]."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/
"Moreover, there is evidence from uncontrolled clinical trials and studies in animal models that the ketogenic diet can provide symptomatic and disease-modifying activity in a broad range of neurodegenerative disorders including Alzheimer’s disease and Parkinson’s disease, and may also be protective in traumatic brain injury and stroke. These observations are supported by studies in animal models and isolated cells that show that ketone bodies, especially β-hydroxybutyrate, confer neuroprotection against diverse types of cellular injury."
adjuvant:: one that helps or facilitates: such as
a : an ingredient (as in a prescription or a solution) that modifies the action of the principal ingredient
b : something (such as a drug or method) that enhances the effectiveness of medical treatment used chemotherapy as an adjuvant to surgery
c : a substance (such as one added to a vaccine) enhancing the immune response to an antigen
so with that said its used in conjuction(in addition) with say chemo and other therapies.I know ketos origin was to be used for those with seizure disorders and then they found that they also help those with type 2,pcos and insulin resistance. as for parkinsons and alzheimers most of those studies it states were done on rats/mice and the others were uncontrolled studies. it says nowhere in the post above that it involved humans. humans and rats are two different beasts in more ways that one.
o therefore keto alone is not going to prevent or put your cancer into remission. doesnt mean you will age more gracefully either. There have been many people who have done keto diets and still died from cancer. if keto was the cure all then most oncologist would recommend keto along with radiation/chemo. keto is just a another way of eating. sure for some it has its benefits but its not for everyone and not a cure all for everything.
Who claimed it was a cure-all for everything? I read back thinking I missed that, but I couldn't find it in the thread. Also, while I can certainly appreciate the difference between a cure and a complementary therapy, anyone should be able to see that tumors which are basically fed by sugar (had you read the links, you would have seen the information to which I am referring), will either slow their growth or stop growing in the absence of sugar. Sugar is not Keto. http://www.nbcnews.com/health/cancer/here-s-how-sugar-might-fuel-growth-cancer-n488456
And although I agree that rats differ from humans, obviously, I think it would be quite ignorant to throw out all scientific testing that is first conducted on animals on that basis alone. It is the preliminary testing done, and generally is a very good predictor of what we can expect in human trials.2 -
Just to expound a bit on that point, ketone bodies - ketones, produced as a waste by product during ketosis, as well as during illness/fever- have neuroprotective properties! So if someone says Keto doesn't have the power to cure disease, it looks as if they may be entirely mistaken.4
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Listen to this Joe Rogan podcast. Very informative and scientific review on the ketogenic diet and nutrition in general. http://podcasts.joerogan.net/podcasts/dom-dagostino2
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Keto diets are not necessary unless you happen to suffer from epilepsy. Weight loss is a matter of CICO (calories in vs. calories out). You can go about achieving this ratio favorably any number of ways, including the keto way, but it only works if it fulfills CICO.
Keto and similar fad diets are interesting in that they tend to put forth nutritional "musts" that are not really musts to maintain optimal health, and furthermore demonize nutritional macros which are perfectly healthy. What's more disturbing is the number of outlandish claims many people seem to attribute to the diet. For whatever reason, the Keto crowd seems far more prone to nonsense than supporters of other fad diets out there. I see some evidence of this above, and it's sadly fairly systemic among this crowd.3 -
wonderflair wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »wonderflair wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
do you have any links to back up the claims that keto is anti aging,anti cancer and so on?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4215472/
"This review summarizes the evidence supporting the hypothesis that ketogenic diets may be safely used as an adjuvant therapy to conventional radiation and chemotherapies and discusses the proposed mechanisms by which ketogenic diets may enhance cancer cell therapeutic responses...
Increased recognition of the safety and efficacy of using ketogenic diets in the treatment of epilepsy has resulted in successful application of this dietary intervention to other disorders. The most notable and well-studied use of a ketogenic diet is for the treatment of obesity popularized by Dr. Robert Atkins (see Fig. 1) (Dr. Atkins Diet Revolution 1972). Ketogenic diets have also been shown to be beneficial in the treatment of patients with glucose transporter defects and other inborn metabolic disorders [24]. The diet is reported to show promise in slowing the progression of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis [25], and there is a growing body of evidence suggesting ketogenic diets may be beneficial in other neurodegenerative diseases including Alzheimer’s disease and Parkinson’s disease [26]. In addition, there are case reports and small case studies indicating improvement in patients with autism [27] depression [28], polycystic ovary syndrome [29], and type 2 diabetes mellitus [18]...
Recently, ketogenic diets have been studied as an adjuvant to cancer therapy in both animal models and human case reports. As early as 1987, Tisdale et al. saw decreased tumor weight and improved cachexia in mice with colon adenocarcinoma xenografts eating a ketogenic diet [30]. Additional studies have shown that ketogenic diets reduce tumor growth and improve survival in animal models of malignant glioma [31–33], colon cancer [34], gastric cancer [35], and prostate cancer [36–38]. Furthermore, ketogenic diets have been hypothesized, with some supporting evidence, to potentiate the effects of radiation in malignant glioma models [39] as well as in non-small cell lung cancer models [5]. Fasting, which also induces a state of ketosis, has been shown to enhance responsiveness to chemotherapy in pre-clinical cancer therapy models as well as possibly ameliorating some of the normal tissue side effects seen with chemotherapy [40]. Fasting cycles are also reported to retard the growth of tumors and sensitize a range of cancer cell types to chemotherapy [40,41]."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/
"Moreover, there is evidence from uncontrolled clinical trials and studies in animal models that the ketogenic diet can provide symptomatic and disease-modifying activity in a broad range of neurodegenerative disorders including Alzheimer’s disease and Parkinson’s disease, and may also be protective in traumatic brain injury and stroke. These observations are supported by studies in animal models and isolated cells that show that ketone bodies, especially β-hydroxybutyrate, confer neuroprotection against diverse types of cellular injury."
adjuvant:: one that helps or facilitates: such as
a : an ingredient (as in a prescription or a solution) that modifies the action of the principal ingredient
b : something (such as a drug or method) that enhances the effectiveness of medical treatment used chemotherapy as an adjuvant to surgery
c : a substance (such as one added to a vaccine) enhancing the immune response to an antigen
so with that said its used in conjuction(in addition) with say chemo and other therapies.I know ketos origin was to be used for those with seizure disorders and then they found that they also help those with type 2,pcos and insulin resistance. as for parkinsons and alzheimers most of those studies it states were done on rats/mice and the others were uncontrolled studies. it says nowhere in the post above that it involved humans. humans and rats are two different beasts in more ways that one.
o therefore keto alone is not going to prevent or put your cancer into remission. doesnt mean you will age more gracefully either. There have been many people who have done keto diets and still died from cancer. if keto was the cure all then most oncologist would recommend keto along with radiation/chemo. keto is just a another way of eating. sure for some it has its benefits but its not for everyone and not a cure all for everything.
Who claimed it was a cure-all for everything? I read back thinking I missed that, but I couldn't find it in the thread. Also, while I can certainly appreciate the difference between a cure and a complementary therapy, anyone should be able to see that tumors which are basically fed by sugar (had you read the links, you would have seen the information to which I am referring), will either slow their growth or stop growing in the absence of sugar. Sugar is not Keto. http://www.nbcnews.com/health/cancer/here-s-how-sugar-might-fuel-growth-cancer-n488456
And although I agree that rats differ from humans, obviously, I think it would be quite ignorant to throw out all scientific testing that is first conducted on animals on that basis alone. It is the preliminary testing done, and generally is a very good predictor of what we can expect in human trials.
really quoting nbc news? there is no proof that keto or any other way of eating cures cancer or any other disease. sure like I said it can help with seizures,diabetes,pcos and insulin resistance but there arent enough studies proving it cures cancer or anything else. as for sugar causing tumors to grow you do know that sugar is a carb and fruits,veggies,whole grains and things like that are carbs right? until a study and more info is done where humans are involved then the studies will be more accurate. I have known many who have had cancer and were told to try different diets and guess what? none of those people lived. not to mention no matter what you do if you are going to get cancer you are going to get it. some of it is caused by genetic defects. saying a diet can cure a disease which atm has no cure is ridiculous.
so you are saying that people with tumors should eat only meats,oils and fats so their tumors dont grow? oh and another thing. my sister had a brain tumor for years only we didnt know because it grew ever so slowly. it was causing her seizures. she eats nothing but sugar. shes almost 30 and probably eats half her weight in sugar and it didnt make her tumor grow. she had no chemo or no radiation. it was able to be removed by laser sugery.she never once changed her diet either.since shes had it out she has had no more seizures and she has no new growth.0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »wonderflair wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »wonderflair wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
do you have any links to back up the claims that keto is anti aging,anti cancer and so on?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4215472/
"This review summarizes the evidence supporting the hypothesis that ketogenic diets may be safely used as an adjuvant therapy to conventional radiation and chemotherapies and discusses the proposed mechanisms by which ketogenic diets may enhance cancer cell therapeutic responses...
Increased recognition of the safety and efficacy of using ketogenic diets in the treatment of epilepsy has resulted in successful application of this dietary intervention to other disorders. The most notable and well-studied use of a ketogenic diet is for the treatment of obesity popularized by Dr. Robert Atkins (see Fig. 1) (Dr. Atkins Diet Revolution 1972). Ketogenic diets have also been shown to be beneficial in the treatment of patients with glucose transporter defects and other inborn metabolic disorders [24]. The diet is reported to show promise in slowing the progression of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis [25], and there is a growing body of evidence suggesting ketogenic diets may be beneficial in other neurodegenerative diseases including Alzheimer’s disease and Parkinson’s disease [26]. In addition, there are case reports and small case studies indicating improvement in patients with autism [27] depression [28], polycystic ovary syndrome [29], and type 2 diabetes mellitus [18]...
Recently, ketogenic diets have been studied as an adjuvant to cancer therapy in both animal models and human case reports. As early as 1987, Tisdale et al. saw decreased tumor weight and improved cachexia in mice with colon adenocarcinoma xenografts eating a ketogenic diet [30]. Additional studies have shown that ketogenic diets reduce tumor growth and improve survival in animal models of malignant glioma [31–33], colon cancer [34], gastric cancer [35], and prostate cancer [36–38]. Furthermore, ketogenic diets have been hypothesized, with some supporting evidence, to potentiate the effects of radiation in malignant glioma models [39] as well as in non-small cell lung cancer models [5]. Fasting, which also induces a state of ketosis, has been shown to enhance responsiveness to chemotherapy in pre-clinical cancer therapy models as well as possibly ameliorating some of the normal tissue side effects seen with chemotherapy [40]. Fasting cycles are also reported to retard the growth of tumors and sensitize a range of cancer cell types to chemotherapy [40,41]."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/
"Moreover, there is evidence from uncontrolled clinical trials and studies in animal models that the ketogenic diet can provide symptomatic and disease-modifying activity in a broad range of neurodegenerative disorders including Alzheimer’s disease and Parkinson’s disease, and may also be protective in traumatic brain injury and stroke. These observations are supported by studies in animal models and isolated cells that show that ketone bodies, especially β-hydroxybutyrate, confer neuroprotection against diverse types of cellular injury."
adjuvant:: one that helps or facilitates: such as
a : an ingredient (as in a prescription or a solution) that modifies the action of the principal ingredient
b : something (such as a drug or method) that enhances the effectiveness of medical treatment used chemotherapy as an adjuvant to surgery
c : a substance (such as one added to a vaccine) enhancing the immune response to an antigen
so with that said its used in conjuction(in addition) with say chemo and other therapies.I know ketos origin was to be used for those with seizure disorders and then they found that they also help those with type 2,pcos and insulin resistance. as for parkinsons and alzheimers most of those studies it states were done on rats/mice and the others were uncontrolled studies. it says nowhere in the post above that it involved humans. humans and rats are two different beasts in more ways that one.
o therefore keto alone is not going to prevent or put your cancer into remission. doesnt mean you will age more gracefully either. There have been many people who have done keto diets and still died from cancer. if keto was the cure all then most oncologist would recommend keto along with radiation/chemo. keto is just a another way of eating. sure for some it has its benefits but its not for everyone and not a cure all for everything.
Who claimed it was a cure-all for everything? I read back thinking I missed that, but I couldn't find it in the thread. Also, while I can certainly appreciate the difference between a cure and a complementary therapy, anyone should be able to see that tumors which are basically fed by sugar (had you read the links, you would have seen the information to which I am referring), will either slow their growth or stop growing in the absence of sugar. Sugar is not Keto. http://www.nbcnews.com/health/cancer/here-s-how-sugar-might-fuel-growth-cancer-n488456
And although I agree that rats differ from humans, obviously, I think it would be quite ignorant to throw out all scientific testing that is first conducted on animals on that basis alone. It is the preliminary testing done, and generally is a very good predictor of what we can expect in human trials.
really quoting nbc news? there is no proof that keto or any other way of eating cures cancer or any other disease. sure like I said it can help with seizures,diabetes,pcos and insulin resistance but there arent enough studies proving it cures cancer or anything else. as for sugar causing tumors to grow you do know that sugar is a carb and fruits,veggies,whole grains and things like that are carbs right? until a study and more info is done where humans are involved then the studies will be more accurate. I have known many who have had cancer and were told to try different diets and guess what? none of those people lived. not to mention no matter what you do if you are going to get cancer you are going to get it. some of it is caused by genetic defects. saying a diet can cure a disease which atm has no cure is ridiculous.
so you are saying that people with tumors should eat only meats,oils and fats so their tumors dont grow? oh and another thing. my sister had a brain tumor for years only we didnt know because it grew ever so slowly. it was causing her seizures. she eats nothing but sugar. shes almost 30 and probably eats half her weight in sugar and it didnt make her tumor grow. she had no chemo or no radiation. it was able to be removed by laser sugery.she never once changed her diet either.since shes had it out she has had no more seizures and she has no new growth.
You cite your sister's situation, which is anecdotal at best, but criticize the article from NBC, which at least cited one of the authors of the study. Ok then. Since Google doesn't work for you, let me link you directly to the Lorenzo Cohen/MD Anderson article: https://www.mdanderson.org/newsroom/2015/12/sugar-in-western-diets.html
FYI, I very clearly did not say nor imply that people with tumors should only eat meats, oils and fats (by the way, oils are fats).
I didn't say that Keto cures those diseases. You asked whether there were any studies showing that Keto was anti-cancer, etc... and I linked to some promising data. That's all. I'm not here to tell you that you should be doing Keto. And I don't believe that Keto will save the world. But I do personally believe there is enough data that a Ketogenic diet is worth considering and evaluating for a broad range of reasons. And if you don't like it - great! Don't do it! But there is no basis for your continued denial of any potential health benefits of Keto on diseases.
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