"Who's NOT Overweight?"
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Here's an idea: how about those with "healthy" BMIs pay lower premiums, rather than making people with "unhealthy" BMIs pay more? I'd love to have a lower premuium. And it would motivate people that lose weight to actually keep it off.6
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Obesity rate keeps rising, and yet instead of trying to solve the problem, we are just accepting it. Clothing sizes just keep getting bigger, food portions at restaurants keep getting larger.. when are we going to say, "no, it is not healthy to be overweight, let's do something about it". ?
yes this exactly3 -
Strawblackcat wrote: »Here's an idea: how about those with "healthy" BMIs pay lower premiums, rather than making people with "unhealthy" BMIs pay more? I'd love to have a lower premuium. And it would motivate people that lose weight to actually keep it off.
Love this idea2 -
Obesity rate keeps rising, and yet instead of trying to solve the problem, we are just accepting it. Clothing sizes just keep getting bigger, food portions at restaurants keep getting larger.. when are we going to say, "no, it is not healthy to be overweight, let's do something about it". ?
Those two examples have nothing whatever to do with each other, though.
Portion sizes increasing is a big problem, a contributing factor to obesity, and a hindrance to those of us trying to lose/control our weight. Something should totally be done about that.
Clothing sizes getting bigger is just a necessity, though. It doesn't contribute to the problem at all. Unless you're suggesting that forcing fat people to go naked would somehow stop them being fat?
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I work in academia. Most professors I know work out a lot and everyone in my department is a healthy weight except for the secretaries.
My dad is considered obese by BMI even though he plays full court basketball at 60 and the doctors say he has the best heart condition they have ever seen for someone his age.
I worked on the financial side of healthcare, and the whole system is messed up. About 20% of the people incur 80% of the healthcare costs in the country, some of this due to an unhealthy lifestyle, but a lot also due to genetics or freak accidents. I remember one individual who did everything right and a freak tree branch falling on her head left her with too many medical bills to pay for. My horseback riding teacher is racking up medical bills, which would be expected for someone who does one of most dangerous sports for a living, except that she is racking them up because she has (unrelated) cancer. Healthcare is not a right, however, from an economics perspective I think something more needs to be done in order to mitigate the risk so that one broken leg doesn't equal financial disaster for an otherwise fiscally responsible individual... but that is a whole different matter.5 -
Strawblackcat wrote: »Here's an idea: how about those with "healthy" BMIs pay lower premiums, rather than making people with "unhealthy" BMIs pay more? I'd love to have a lower premuium. And it would motivate people that lose weight to actually keep it off.
This doesn't change the substance of what you are trying to do, it just frames it as a reward rather than a punishment. Nothing wrong with that, just pointing it out.8 -
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CattOfTheGarage wrote: »Obesity rate keeps rising, and yet instead of trying to solve the problem, we are just accepting it. Clothing sizes just keep getting bigger, food portions at restaurants keep getting larger.. when are we going to say, "no, it is not healthy to be overweight, let's do something about it". ?
Those two examples have nothing whatever to do with each other, though.
Portion sizes increasing is a big problem, a contributing factor to obesity, and a hindrance to those of us trying to lose/control our weight. Something should totally be done about that.
Clothing sizes getting bigger is just a necessity, though. It doesn't contribute to the problem at all. Unless you're suggesting that forcing fat people to go naked would somehow stop them being fat?
No, but they have more larger sizes, with plus size models glamorizing plus sizes, and thinner people are being shamed. I can hardly find xs these days or now they do vanity sizing ( labeling a medium a small) All these things attribute to society's acceptance of overweight or obesity rates.9 -
CattOfTheGarage wrote: »Obesity rate keeps rising, and yet instead of trying to solve the problem, we are just accepting it. Clothing sizes just keep getting bigger, food portions at restaurants keep getting larger.. when are we going to say, "no, it is not healthy to be overweight, let's do something about it". ?
Those two examples have nothing whatever to do with each other, though.
Portion sizes increasing is a big problem, a contributing factor to obesity, and a hindrance to those of us trying to lose/control our weight. Something should totally be done about that.
Clothing sizes getting bigger is just a necessity, though. It doesn't contribute to the problem at all. Unless you're suggesting that forcing fat people to go naked would somehow stop them being fat?
No, but they have more larger sizes, with plus size models glamorizing plus sizes, and thinner people are being shamed. I can hardly find xs these days or now they do vanity sizing ( labeling a medium a small) All these things attribute to society's acceptance of overweight or obesity rates.
Thin people are shamed, fat people are also shamed. It's a problem at both ends of the scale and trying to increase the level of shame (as you sound like you want to do) will help nobody.
For me and many others, body acceptance and self love have been a crucial part of being able to lose weight in a healthy way. Shame is a completely negative thing, which gets in the way of weight loss, it doesn't help it.
And plus sized models are usually nothing of the sort - they are usually a normal weight, and are a welcome pushback against the cult of only ever showing women at an unhealthily low weight.
What is needed to tackle obesity is straight talking, about the risks, about the causes, and about the best strategies to lose weight; better nutrition training for primary care doctors and easier access to dietitians; better access to fresh food and actions to tackle food deserts; decisive action against bogus health claims, fake nutrition experts and 'diet foods' that make things worse; and more education for kids on basic nutrition and how to cook simple, cheap, balanced meals.
The Daily Mail armchair warrior approach of ranting about how "we're all too accepting of fat people" is not on my list, strangely. Of all the things we can say about our world, "too much love and understanding" is not one of them. A bit more can only ever help.24 -
CattOfTheGarage wrote: »Obesity rate keeps rising, and yet instead of trying to solve the problem, we are just accepting it. Clothing sizes just keep getting bigger, food portions at restaurants keep getting larger.. when are we going to say, "no, it is not healthy to be overweight, let's do something about it". ?
Those two examples have nothing whatever to do with each other, though.
Portion sizes increasing is a big problem, a contributing factor to obesity, and a hindrance to those of us trying to lose/control our weight. Something should totally be done about that.
Clothing sizes getting bigger is just a necessity, though. It doesn't contribute to the problem at all. Unless you're suggesting that forcing fat people to go naked would somehow stop them being fat?
No, but they have more larger sizes, with plus size models glamorizing plus sizes, and thinner people are being shamed. I can hardly find xs these days or now they do vanity sizing ( labeling a medium a small) All these things attribute to society's acceptance of overweight or obesity rates.
I actually think it does contribute to the problem. Size 00/0 used to be meant for very thin people, now most healthy weight people fit into 0. The vanity sizing gives overweight people the impression they really aren't "that big" and reinforces the idea they are normal and that being overweight is normal because "hey I'm only a size ___". And I agree with you I can hardly find clothes that fit anymore. My mom gave me some of her old clothes from the 80s/90s and the size 4-6 fits snug. However, I now have to find 000/00 and xs in today's ridiculous vanity sizing. It disgusts me that as a country we are normalizing obesity more and more every year. I agree vanity sizing and all these 'plus size' campaigns show people "hey this is what normal is and it's completely fine to be this way".18 -
Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »Obesity rate keeps rising, and yet instead of trying to solve the problem, we are just accepting it. Clothing sizes just keep getting bigger, food portions at restaurants keep getting larger.. when are we going to say, "no, it is not healthy to be overweight, let's do something about it". ?
Those two examples have nothing whatever to do with each other, though.
Portion sizes increasing is a big problem, a contributing factor to obesity, and a hindrance to those of us trying to lose/control our weight. Something should totally be done about that.
Clothing sizes getting bigger is just a necessity, though. It doesn't contribute to the problem at all. Unless you're suggesting that forcing fat people to go naked would somehow stop them being fat?
No, but they have more larger sizes, with plus size models glamorizing plus sizes, and thinner people are being shamed. I can hardly find xs these days or now they do vanity sizing ( labeling a medium a small) All these things attribute to society's acceptance of overweight or obesity rates.
I actually think it does contribute to the problem. Size 00/0 used to be meant for very thin people, now most healthy weight people fit into 0. The vanity sizing gives overweight people the impression they really aren't "that big" and reinforces the idea they are normal and that being overweight is normal because "hey I'm only a size ___". And I agree with you I can hardly find clothes that fit anymore. My mom gave me some of her old clothes from the 80s/90s and the size 4-6 fits snug. However, I now have to find 000/00 and xs in today's ridiculous vanity sizing. It disgusts me that as a country we are normalizing obesity more and more every year. I agree vanity sizing and all these 'plus size' campaigns show people "hey this is what normal is and it's completely fine to be this way".
I agree with this. Nobody wants to force fat people to go naked, that's quite extreme to write that. Just keep clothing sizes true to size. Someone is hurt they are a size 20? Too bad, it's reality. People have made fun of size 00/000 asking how someone can be below a size 0. That's kind of the point. A size 0 was originally meant as just that; for extremely petite people. Being a size 0 was rare, not some coveted number to aspire to. Size 00/000 was created for those who are actually closer to a true size 0 and even then, it's still off. Now because of vanity sizing, you have many people saying things like "I'm 170 pounds but a size 6!" Then they refer to Marilyn Monroe's size, etc as if those sizes are comparable to today's sizing. It's ridiculous.20 -
In fairness, I'm not defending vanity sizing. That's absurd (I've actually never encountered it myself). But complaining because larger clothing sizes are available at all is absurd too. It does seem like saying fat people shouldn't have clothes.
And like I said, I've never even seen a 'plus sized' model that was actually fat. Just healthy weight women, being presented as if they were fat, because our whole fashion world has become convinced that underweight is normal for models.
It's like two weird parallel worlds exist, one in fashion advertising, where everyone is dangerously underweight, and the other in the real world, where overweight is increasingly the norm. Healthy weights are kind of lost in the middle.9 -
Maxematics wrote: »Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »Obesity rate keeps rising, and yet instead of trying to solve the problem, we are just accepting it. Clothing sizes just keep getting bigger, food portions at restaurants keep getting larger.. when are we going to say, "no, it is not healthy to be overweight, let's do something about it". ?
Those two examples have nothing whatever to do with each other, though.
Portion sizes increasing is a big problem, a contributing factor to obesity, and a hindrance to those of us trying to lose/control our weight. Something should totally be done about that.
Clothing sizes getting bigger is just a necessity, though. It doesn't contribute to the problem at all. Unless you're suggesting that forcing fat people to go naked would somehow stop them being fat?
No, but they have more larger sizes, with plus size models glamorizing plus sizes, and thinner people are being shamed. I can hardly find xs these days or now they do vanity sizing ( labeling a medium a small) All these things attribute to society's acceptance of overweight or obesity rates.
I actually think it does contribute to the problem. Size 00/0 used to be meant for very thin people, now most healthy weight people fit into 0. The vanity sizing gives overweight people the impression they really aren't "that big" and reinforces the idea they are normal and that being overweight is normal because "hey I'm only a size ___". And I agree with you I can hardly find clothes that fit anymore. My mom gave me some of her old clothes from the 80s/90s and the size 4-6 fits snug. However, I now have to find 000/00 and xs in today's ridiculous vanity sizing. It disgusts me that as a country we are normalizing obesity more and more every year. I agree vanity sizing and all these 'plus size' campaigns show people "hey this is what normal is and it's completely fine to be this way".
I agree with this. Nobody wants to force fat people to go naked, that's quite extreme to write that. Just keep clothing sizes true to size. Someone is hurt they are a size 20? Too bad, it's reality. People have made fun of size 00/000 asking how someone can be below a size 0. That's kind of the point. A size 0 was originally meant as just that; for extremely petite people. Being a size 0 was rare, not some coveted number to aspire to. Size 00/000 was created for those who are actually closer to a true size 0 and even then, it's still off. Now because of vanity sizing, you have many people saying things like "I'm 170 pounds but a size 6!" Then they refer to Marilyn Monroe's size, etc as if those sizes are comparable to today's sizing. It's ridiculous.
Exactly this! Sizes have gotten way larger than what they used to be. It is to accommodate larger, overweight, even obese people into thinking they are not as large as they actually are. We are now teaching our kids that "big is beautiful". Somehow we have forgotten that with heavier weight comes health issues. We have got to reverse our thinking and acceptance of being overweight.5 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »OliveGirl128 wrote: »OliveGirl128 wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »My life insurance company charges extra if your BMI is 'obese' or higher. No penalty for 'overweight'. I think it's fair, to be honest, for life insurance - which is basically gambling. You pays your money, you takes your chance.
Health insurance is rather different. Putting hurdles between people and healthcare because they're unhealthy is absurd.
But from an insurance perspective, those who are obese are more likely incur more health care costs, just like smokers.
I'm 6 ft and 200 lbs. my body fat is roughly 10%. My vitals are near perfect. I'm "overweight" and approaching "obese" based on that. Total horseshit.
Do you really think your stats are the norm though?
Actually, I know a lot of guys, including myself who are overweight by BMI but are perfectly lean and healthy...I don't think it's that unusual for active males to be overweight per BMI but still lean and healthy. Someone bordering on obese is hitting the weight room pretty hard, which isn't particularly unusual either but probably more of a rarity than just being overweight.
I'm about 8 Lbs overweight as per BMI but at a perfectly healthy BF%...no love handles, no gut, etc...right around 15%. I'm by no means a body builder as I only lift 2x per week and spend most of my exercise time on my bike...but being active, I have enough muscle mass to class me as overweight by BMI.
I don't think BMI is total BS or anything, but I think using it as the sole measure to run up someone's rates is pretty asinine.
I agree with the bold but have a question about your first sentence--Are active males the norm? In my corner of the world, they are not. I don't think that many guys around me are in the overweight category BMI-wise due to their activity (actually muscle) level.
This. Thinking of my husband's friends, the co-workers I've met of his, my male relatives and husband's relatives, and then the men I interact with at church-none of them have an athletic build and are all sporting extra weight to some extent. My husband plays in-line hockey once a week and all his team mates are overweight, even playing a sport. Of course after each game they make a beeline to the parking lot to pull out the cases of beer from their trucks. One can pretty much cancels out calories burned from the game, and most drink waaay more than one can
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Maxematics wrote: »Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »Obesity rate keeps rising, and yet instead of trying to solve the problem, we are just accepting it. Clothing sizes just keep getting bigger, food portions at restaurants keep getting larger.. when are we going to say, "no, it is not healthy to be overweight, let's do something about it". ?
Those two examples have nothing whatever to do with each other, though.
Portion sizes increasing is a big problem, a contributing factor to obesity, and a hindrance to those of us trying to lose/control our weight. Something should totally be done about that.
Clothing sizes getting bigger is just a necessity, though. It doesn't contribute to the problem at all. Unless you're suggesting that forcing fat people to go naked would somehow stop them being fat?
No, but they have more larger sizes, with plus size models glamorizing plus sizes, and thinner people are being shamed. I can hardly find xs these days or now they do vanity sizing ( labeling a medium a small) All these things attribute to society's acceptance of overweight or obesity rates.
I actually think it does contribute to the problem. Size 00/0 used to be meant for very thin people, now most healthy weight people fit into 0. The vanity sizing gives overweight people the impression they really aren't "that big" and reinforces the idea they are normal and that being overweight is normal because "hey I'm only a size ___". And I agree with you I can hardly find clothes that fit anymore. My mom gave me some of her old clothes from the 80s/90s and the size 4-6 fits snug. However, I now have to find 000/00 and xs in today's ridiculous vanity sizing. It disgusts me that as a country we are normalizing obesity more and more every year. I agree vanity sizing and all these 'plus size' campaigns show people "hey this is what normal is and it's completely fine to be this way".
I agree with this. Nobody wants to force fat people to go naked, that's quite extreme to write that. Just keep clothing sizes true to size. Someone is hurt they are a size 20? Too bad, it's reality. People have made fun of size 00/000 asking how someone can be below a size 0. That's kind of the point. A size 0 was originally meant as just that; for extremely petite people. Being a size 0 was rare, not some coveted number to aspire to. Size 00/000 was created for those who are actually closer to a true size 0 and even then, it's still off. Now because of vanity sizing, you have many people saying things like "I'm 170 pounds but a size 6!" Then they refer to Marilyn Monroe's size, etc as if those sizes are comparable to today's sizing. It's ridiculous.
is it extremely petite? or extremely skinny?
and i dont understand the concept of having a size below zero
i agree with the true to size in stores makes it easier to shop. each shop seems to do their own thing0 -
But there are massive health risks to being underweight as well, and yet that has been the norm and pressure in women's fashion and fashion advertising for decades.
ETA I have never understood why women's clothes can't just be sized in inches like mens'.10 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »Maxematics wrote: »Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »Obesity rate keeps rising, and yet instead of trying to solve the problem, we are just accepting it. Clothing sizes just keep getting bigger, food portions at restaurants keep getting larger.. when are we going to say, "no, it is not healthy to be overweight, let's do something about it". ?
Those two examples have nothing whatever to do with each other, though.
Portion sizes increasing is a big problem, a contributing factor to obesity, and a hindrance to those of us trying to lose/control our weight. Something should totally be done about that.
Clothing sizes getting bigger is just a necessity, though. It doesn't contribute to the problem at all. Unless you're suggesting that forcing fat people to go naked would somehow stop them being fat?
No, but they have more larger sizes, with plus size models glamorizing plus sizes, and thinner people are being shamed. I can hardly find xs these days or now they do vanity sizing ( labeling a medium a small) All these things attribute to society's acceptance of overweight or obesity rates.
I actually think it does contribute to the problem. Size 00/0 used to be meant for very thin people, now most healthy weight people fit into 0. The vanity sizing gives overweight people the impression they really aren't "that big" and reinforces the idea they are normal and that being overweight is normal because "hey I'm only a size ___". And I agree with you I can hardly find clothes that fit anymore. My mom gave me some of her old clothes from the 80s/90s and the size 4-6 fits snug. However, I now have to find 000/00 and xs in today's ridiculous vanity sizing. It disgusts me that as a country we are normalizing obesity more and more every year. I agree vanity sizing and all these 'plus size' campaigns show people "hey this is what normal is and it's completely fine to be this way".
I agree with this. Nobody wants to force fat people to go naked, that's quite extreme to write that. Just keep clothing sizes true to size. Someone is hurt they are a size 20? Too bad, it's reality. People have made fun of size 00/000 asking how someone can be below a size 0. That's kind of the point. A size 0 was originally meant as just that; for extremely petite people. Being a size 0 was rare, not some coveted number to aspire to. Size 00/000 was created for those who are actually closer to a true size 0 and even then, it's still off. Now because of vanity sizing, you have many people saying things like "I'm 170 pounds but a size 6!" Then they refer to Marilyn Monroe's size, etc as if those sizes are comparable to today's sizing. It's ridiculous.
is it extremely petite? or extremely skinny?
and i dont understand the concept of having a size below zero
i agree with the true to size in stores makes it easier to shop. each shop seems to do their own thing
Extremely petite and/or skinny, yes. Someone who is quite skinny, yet 5'10" may not have the bone structure to fit into a size 0. The reason a size below zero was created was because an actual size 0 is no longer an actual 0. When vanity sizing became a thing, let's say a true size 4 became a size 0, so what are people who are actually a true size 0 or 2 to do in that situation? What can they do for people that size? Create size 00 and 000 of course, which is just silly.4 -
I'm in my 40's and I have never been overweight in my life. The highest I've been is near the top of the healthy weight range. I came to MFP several years ago to reverse the upward trend I was on and get back to my ideal. Been maintaining at goal for over 5 years now. Among my friends, I am pretty average, since most of us have always been more fit than average. But I do notice that the majority of people I see when I'm out and about seem to be on the heavy side these days.
It's not particularly complicated to maintain a healthy weight in my experience. It just takes the commitment and some basic effort. The most important thing is determining your priorities. If fitness is a true priority, you'll make it happen. If not, you won't. Of course, some people have special medical problems that complicate weight management, but most people could do more to stay in shape. They just chose not to.
I can see why insurance might want to charge more for obesity (especially morbid obesity), considering the numerous conditions and health risks associated with it, but simply being overweight doesn't necessarily increase risks...
It sounds like it hasn't been hard or complicated for you-which is great! For some people it is much more challenging. (Otherwise we'd all be normal weight!)6 -
CattOfTheGarage wrote: »Obesity rate keeps rising, and yet instead of trying to solve the problem, we are just accepting it. Clothing sizes just keep getting bigger, food portions at restaurants keep getting larger.. when are we going to say, "no, it is not healthy to be overweight, let's do something about it". ?
Those two examples have nothing whatever to do with each other, though.
Portion sizes increasing is a big problem, a contributing factor to obesity, and a hindrance to those of us trying to lose/control our weight. Something should totally be done about that.
Clothing sizes getting bigger is just a necessity, though. It doesn't contribute to the problem at all. Unless you're suggesting that forcing fat people to go naked would somehow stop them being fat?
No, but they have more larger sizes, with plus size models glamorizing plus sizes, and thinner people are being shamed. I can hardly find xs these days or now they do vanity sizing ( labeling a medium a small) All these things attribute to society's acceptance of overweight or obesity rates.
I am short, and always have been. I have been fat since age 10. As I became an adult, I noticed it is really difficult to find pants at the right length. Furthermore, in the event that I did find pants of the right length (or close enough, anyway), the waist was either way too big or way too small. Now that I am a healthy weight, I can find pants in the right waist size. It is the smallest available off the rack. However, I want to lose another 10 lbs. and will have to custom order pants if/when I finally reach goal.2
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