Calories in calories out is it that simple?
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »According to the AMA and other authoritative bodies within the United States, a "balanced diet" is not really all that subjective, and looks something like this:
However, I think you will find many people among the fad diet crowd who would not find this to be healthy at all. Such a diet would fill them with paranoia. Bread, cheese, rice, pasta, butter (on my!) or nearly any other individual food on the above graphic representing a balanced diet has to the potential to cause several dieting cults or "clean" eating psychos to lose their cookies. Why? Because most of these individual sects operate largely outside the realm of medical science and nutrition and rely instead on semantics and pop culture to forward their ideas.
Regardless of this, I know one universal way to improve health and decrease risk for a wide assortment of health related conditions and diseases, and that is to decrease your BMI. In this context your diet of choice is largely irrelevant. Be it clean, balanced or otherwise. the biological mechanism to achieve weight loss is identical.
If you are diabetic, that's a terrible diet. I wonder if the AMA makes a differentiation. PS - your average doctor knows nothing about diet and nutrition.
Why should the average person worry about being diabetic?
Diabetes also doesn't mean you have to forgo carbs.
Paging @earlnabby .
Here. Better late than never.
Diabetics do not need to eliminate carbs. They DO need to watch them and limit on a sliding scale as needed to manage their disease. Some do best on low carb or even keto, others are good with moderate carbs. The types of carb-y food depends on the severity of the disease. Those who take insulin really need to know the total sugars as well as the total carbs in a meal in order to calculate the correct dosage. Those on oral medication or managing by diet and exercise can just monitor their total carbs for the day.
Fiber in the food slows the conversion to blood glucose. The difference is, you either have a spike and fall, or you have a slow rise and slow drop. Either way, your AVERAGE blood glucose for the day will be the same. There are some issues with the quick drop, especially for those on medication but for T2 diabetics not using insulin the average numbers are the most important. That is why they have their A1C checked every 3 months. It gives the average blood glucose over the previous 2-3 months (lifetime of a red blood cell).
Insulin is a good thing. It is what the body produces in order to handle glucose in the blood. In diabetics, there is a problem with that mechanism. Either the pancreas does not produce enough insulin (or none in the case of T1Dm) or the cells in your body do not handle insulin correctly (insulin resistance) allowing glucose to remain in the bloodstream. The excess glucose in the bloodstream is what causes damage. If it is not turned into energy or stored for future energy needs over time, the body has issues.
What you eat does NOT cause diabetes. Diabetes is a disease of the pancreas where the beta cells do not function properly. Doctors STILL do not know why it happens. They HAVE identified risk factors in those who developed the disease:- Genetics (family history and also racial heritage)
- Obesity
- Age (the pancreas gets old just like the rest f the body)
- Long term use of some medications like statins and certain types of antidepressant
- If you mother had gestational diabetes when carrying you
- Some cancer treatments, especially in childhood
- There is some correlation to environmental factors like exposure to arsenic and herbicides/pesticides but these need further study to determine an actual causation.
Most people who develop T2Dm have two or more of the risk factors, but many with a genetic risk don't need a second. Scientists do NOT know what actually triggers the disease.
The only risk factor totally under our control is obesity. Not only is it the #2 risk factor, it can combine with genetics to trigger the disease and it can contribute to the heart issues where statins are prescribed, which also are a risk factor.
Me, I was diagnosed at age 58. I have been overweight most of my adult life but became very obese in my 40's. Diabetes is unknown in my family even though many in my family have weight issues. I have been taking antidepressants for the last 15 years to deal with Major Depressive Disorder (which does run in my family). I started losing weight immediately after diagnosis and limiting my carbs to a maximum of 180 grams per day (the amount recommended by my Certified Diabetes Educator PCP). My starting A1c was 7.3. I was on medication for 8 months and when my A1C dropped to 5.5 in that time I was taken off the meds. I still have 60 lb to lose, but my A1C has stayed between 5.0 and 5.5 ever since. My calories are lower now so I changed my maximum carbs to 160.
I am a T2Dm in remission, managing by diet and exercise.
Earlnabby
I had gestational diabetes with all the of my children (not diagnosed with my first causing preclempsia and having to be induced early). I thought that was a warning sign for me of becoming diabetic. I did not know it was a warning sign for my children. So, am I more likely to become diabetic, or just my kids?0 -
J9LynnHelton wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »According to the AMA and other authoritative bodies within the United States, a "balanced diet" is not really all that subjective, and looks something like this:
However, I think you will find many people among the fad diet crowd who would not find this to be healthy at all. Such a diet would fill them with paranoia. Bread, cheese, rice, pasta, butter (on my!) or nearly any other individual food on the above graphic representing a balanced diet has to the potential to cause several dieting cults or "clean" eating psychos to lose their cookies. Why? Because most of these individual sects operate largely outside the realm of medical science and nutrition and rely instead on semantics and pop culture to forward their ideas.
Regardless of this, I know one universal way to improve health and decrease risk for a wide assortment of health related conditions and diseases, and that is to decrease your BMI. In this context your diet of choice is largely irrelevant. Be it clean, balanced or otherwise. the biological mechanism to achieve weight loss is identical.
If you are diabetic, that's a terrible diet. I wonder if the AMA makes a differentiation. PS - your average doctor knows nothing about diet and nutrition.
Why should the average person worry about being diabetic?
Diabetes also doesn't mean you have to forgo carbs.
Paging @earlnabby .
Here. Better late than never.
Diabetics do not need to eliminate carbs. They DO need to watch them and limit on a sliding scale as needed to manage their disease. Some do best on low carb or even keto, others are good with moderate carbs. The types of carb-y food depends on the severity of the disease. Those who take insulin really need to know the total sugars as well as the total carbs in a meal in order to calculate the correct dosage. Those on oral medication or managing by diet and exercise can just monitor their total carbs for the day.
Fiber in the food slows the conversion to blood glucose. The difference is, you either have a spike and fall, or you have a slow rise and slow drop. Either way, your AVERAGE blood glucose for the day will be the same. There are some issues with the quick drop, especially for those on medication but for T2 diabetics not using insulin the average numbers are the most important. That is why they have their A1C checked every 3 months. It gives the average blood glucose over the previous 2-3 months (lifetime of a red blood cell).
Insulin is a good thing. It is what the body produces in order to handle glucose in the blood. In diabetics, there is a problem with that mechanism. Either the pancreas does not produce enough insulin (or none in the case of T1Dm) or the cells in your body do not handle insulin correctly (insulin resistance) allowing glucose to remain in the bloodstream. The excess glucose in the bloodstream is what causes damage. If it is not turned into energy or stored for future energy needs over time, the body has issues.
What you eat does NOT cause diabetes. Diabetes is a disease of the pancreas where the beta cells do not function properly. Doctors STILL do not know why it happens. They HAVE identified risk factors in those who developed the disease:- Genetics (family history and also racial heritage)
- Obesity
- Age (the pancreas gets old just like the rest f the body)
- Long term use of some medications like statins and certain types of antidepressant
- If you mother had gestational diabetes when carrying you
- Some cancer treatments, especially in childhood
- There is some correlation to environmental factors like exposure to arsenic and herbicides/pesticides but these need further study to determine an actual causation.
Most people who develop T2Dm have two or more of the risk factors, but many with a genetic risk don't need a second. Scientists do NOT know what actually triggers the disease.
The only risk factor totally under our control is obesity. Not only is it the #2 risk factor, it can combine with genetics to trigger the disease and it can contribute to the heart issues where statins are prescribed, which also are a risk factor.
Me, I was diagnosed at age 58. I have been overweight most of my adult life but became very obese in my 40's. Diabetes is unknown in my family even though many in my family have weight issues. I have been taking antidepressants for the last 15 years to deal with Major Depressive Disorder (which does run in my family). I started losing weight immediately after diagnosis and limiting my carbs to a maximum of 180 grams per day (the amount recommended by my Certified Diabetes Educator PCP). My starting A1c was 7.3. I was on medication for 8 months and when my A1C dropped to 5.5 in that time I was taken off the meds. I still have 60 lb to lose, but my A1C has stayed between 5.0 and 5.5 ever since. My calories are lower now so I changed my maximum carbs to 160.
I am a T2Dm in remission, managing by diet and exercise.
Earlnabby
I had gestational diabetes with all the of my children (not diagnosed with my first causing preclempsia and having to be induced early). I thought that was a warning sign for me of becoming diabetic. I did not know it was a warning sign for my children. So, am I more likely to become diabetic, or just my kids?
From what I have read, it is a risk factor for both. Again, those studying the disease say that MOST people who develop diabetes have two or more risk factors so staying at a healthy weight and remaining active are even more important to them. here is some info from the American Diabetes Association: "High Prevalence of Type 2 Diabetes and Pre-Diabetes in Adult Offspring of Women with Gestational Diabetes Mellitus or Type 1 Diabetes – The Role of Intrauterine Hyperglycemia" http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/early/2007/11/13/dc07-15962 -
Maybe, but the calories would be really low and you might not get adequate nutrition. Some foods do boost your metabolism a bit and give you energy.
No, the calories would be about the same, if exercise is.
Of course, it depends on what someone means by junk food. The vast majority of Americans, even on poor diets, don't eat super low protein. If it's like an all sweet/super low protein diet, that would be worse for body composition, although the fatter you are the less it is likely to matter.
I, of course, think people SHOULD eat a nutritious diet and that there are tons of benefits, but as someone who lost weight on a nutrient dense diet, it doesn't mean you have a totally different calorie goal.
Edit: just realized this wasn't the "eat only junk food" thread, but the "eating whatever even junk food" thread, which I'd take to mean a mix of nutrient-dense food plus some junk food. Especially curious why including some junk food would mean calories would be really low.1 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Surely everyone knows at least one person who lives on take away/ready meals/junk food and absolutely refuses to eat a single solitary fruit or vegetable! I have a family right next door to me who eats like this, and if they came on here asking "can i eat anything and still lose weight" they would 100% mean, can i eat the crap foods that made me super obese and still lose weight. Some people give no *kitten* about nutrition whatsoever.
Agree with all three of your points.1 -
many people reversed their diabetes with weight loss alone.some still eat grains,starches and sugars(which grains and starches are carbs so they are sugar).losing weight for some was enough,for others changing their diet helped as well.0
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Fresh fruit, vegetables is the best option.0
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To simply lose weight? Yes, that simple.
To maximize fat loss? No, the type of food you eat can have a huge impact on your energy level. Eating nutrient dense foods that make you feel good will make you want to be more active and you will naturally increase movement without thinking about it.3 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »According to the AMA and other authoritative bodies within the United States, a "balanced diet" is not really all that subjective, and looks something like this:
However, I think you will find many people among the fad diet crowd who would not find this to be healthy at all. Such a diet would fill them with paranoia. Bread, cheese, rice, pasta, butter (on my!) or nearly any other individual food on the above graphic representing a balanced diet has to the potential to cause several dieting cults or "clean" eating psychos to lose their cookies. Why? Because most of these individual sects operate largely outside the realm of medical science and nutrition and rely instead on semantics and pop culture to forward their ideas.
Regardless of this, I know one universal way to improve health and decrease risk for a wide assortment of health related conditions and diseases, and that is to decrease your BMI. In this context your diet of choice is largely irrelevant. Be it clean, balanced or otherwise. the biological mechanism to achieve weight loss is identical.
If you are diabetic, that's a terrible diet. I wonder if the AMA makes a differentiation. PS - your average doctor knows nothing about diet and nutrition.
Why should the average person worry about being diabetic?
Diabetes also doesn't mean you have to forgo carbs.
Paging @earlnabby .
Because the way things are going, in 20 years the average person will be diabetic.
Yes, diabetes means you should forgo grains, sugars and starches as much as possible, unless you want to slowly deteriorate over the course of your life because of the diabetes. It's a fact.
Do you know what causes diabetes? I don't think you do.
Yes I do. And I did not say grains, starches and sugar cause T2 diabetes. You should avoid grains, sugars and starches if you are pre-T2 or T2. Unless you want to inject large amounts of insulin for the rest of your life, likely gain weight, and likely be a lot less healthy than people who do not have T2.
Incorrect. You should manage them. You don't need to avoid them. Some T2's need to avoid certain grains and not others.
What T2's should do is reach a normal weight and become active.
Again, paging @earlnabby
I have read case after case on-line of people stopping or reversing T2 diabetes not by avoiding carbs (green veggies have carbs and you can eat all the green veggies you want), but avoiding, as best as you can, grains, starches and sugars. Why? Because they have a high glycemic index.
That's it. Not making this up. If you don't want to believe me, that's fine.
The two diabetics posting in this thread don't count then? Alrighty then.
Their experiences aren't unique because they are being treated by programs who treat other diabetic patients who share similar success.
Your method is like putting a cast on a simple cut, sure, it works to stop the bleeding, but it's not necessary when a simple bandage will do the same thing.
The thing is that not everyone who needs to put diabetes into remission wants to forgo grains and sugar, and the good news is that they don't have to.7 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Surely everyone knows at least one person who lives on take away/ready meals/junk food and absolutely refuses to eat a single solitary fruit or vegetable! I have a family right next door to me who eats like this, and if they came on here asking "can i eat anything and still lose weight" they would 100% mean, can i eat the crap foods that made me super obese and still lose weight. Some people give no *kitten* about nutrition whatsoever.
Agree with all three of your points.
Some people DON'T care about nutrition.
Is lying to them and saying "yes, you have to care about nutrition to lose" the answer?
(I don't think the answer is to say "yes, it doesn't matter at all" either, but these threads demonstrate that's NOT the advice they get. They get told it matters for nutrition and health and satiety, but if they can manage to eat the right cal on a bad diet, they can lose. They usually also get told that there's a difference between eating ALL junk food or no veg vs. some less nutrient dense foods. So this idea that people are being told not to care about their diets is a strawman, no?)
They may well decide to lose without concern about nutrition and although most will gravitate to more satiating foods if at lower cal, some perhaps won't. Do you think it's because they don't know what's healthy? I don't. I think every single person who eats a really poor SAD-type diet knows it's poor. They likely don't care, but they know they should eat lean meat, veg, whole grains vs. refined. Blaming it on people saying "well, of course you can eat some junk food and still lose" would be an excuse, not reality (and if they are reading here they have not managed to avoid all sources on nutrition, much garbage, but definitely not saying food makes no difference, that our culture is permeated with).
The people I think who DO eat poor diets and don't know it aren't those who say "who cares about nutrition" and eat lots of fast food and junk foods and no veg (they know and don't care). It's those who do diets they think are extra healthy, whether all fruit and veg (super low fat and protein) or starch solution (in some formulations) or no veg super low carb diets (at least for some people, and yes I know this is my view and some disagree) or juicing or so on. People have weird ideas about nutrition, yes, but the average person who hasn't gotten into to something like that knows the basics.7 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Surely everyone knows at least one person who lives on take away/ready meals/junk food and absolutely refuses to eat a single solitary fruit or vegetable! I have a family right next door to me who eats like this, and if they came on here asking "can i eat anything and still lose weight" they would 100% mean, can i eat the crap foods that made me super obese and still lose weight. Some people give no *kitten* about nutrition whatsoever.
Agree with all three of your points.
Some people DON'T care about nutrition.
Is lying to them and saying "yes, you have to care about nutrition to lose" the answer?
They may well decide to lose without concern about nutrition and although most will gravitate to more satiating foods if at lower cal, some perhaps won't. Do you think it's because they don't know what's healthy? I don't. I think every single person who eats a really poor SAD-type diet knows it's poor. They likely don't care, but they know they should eat lean meat, veg, whole grains vs. refined. Blaming it on people saying "well, of course you can eat some junk food and still lose" would be an excuse, not reality (and if they are reading here they have not managed to avoid all sources on nutrition, much garbage, but definitely not saying food makes no difference, that our culture is permeated with).
The people I think who DO eat poor diets and don't know it aren't those who say "who cares about nutrition" and eat lots of fast food and junk foods and no veg (they know and don't care). It's those who do diets they think are extra healthy, whether all fruit and veg (super low fat and protein) or starch solution (in some formulations) or no veg super low carb diets (at least for some people, and yes I know this is my view and some disagree) or juicing or so on. People have weird ideas about nutrition, yes, but the average person who hasn't gotten into to something like that knows the basics.
Quoting because awesoming it wasn't enough. Especially the bolded.2 -
Physics (thermo) demands that you lose at least as much as a calorie deficit (you can lose more) and that you can gain no more than a surplus (you don't have to gain all that). CICO is a great model in that it bounds weight loss/gain as just described. It doesn't mean that other things don't help (you can gain less and you can lose more). Whether you lose more than a deficit demands or don't put on as much as a surplus depends on what and when you eat also. CI the mouth are not equivalent to calories in a fat cell. There are energy losses in digestion, there is excretion where calories are not used. There are losses depending on the path we get our energy from. The more gluconeogenisis you do (inefficient process) the more you will lose eating the same calories. Fasting and low carb force more gluconeogenisis. CICO is a sufficient condition to lose weight and will work every time but other things can help.
One thing I see that can get people into trouble, besides eating junk which will make you very hungry, is constantly never eating tell full and driving the BMR down very low so that it is hard to have a deficit.14 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »According to the AMA and other authoritative bodies within the United States, a "balanced diet" is not really all that subjective, and looks something like this:
However, I think you will find many people among the fad diet crowd who would not find this to be healthy at all. Such a diet would fill them with paranoia. Bread, cheese, rice, pasta, butter (on my!) or nearly any other individual food on the above graphic representing a balanced diet has to the potential to cause several dieting cults or "clean" eating psychos to lose their cookies. Why? Because most of these individual sects operate largely outside the realm of medical science and nutrition and rely instead on semantics and pop culture to forward their ideas.
Regardless of this, I know one universal way to improve health and decrease risk for a wide assortment of health related conditions and diseases, and that is to decrease your BMI. In this context your diet of choice is largely irrelevant. Be it clean, balanced or otherwise. the biological mechanism to achieve weight loss is identical.
If you are diabetic, that's a terrible diet. I wonder if the AMA makes a differentiation. PS - your average doctor knows nothing about diet and nutrition.
Why should the average person worry about being diabetic?
Diabetes also doesn't mean you have to forgo carbs.
Paging @earlnabby .
Because the way things are going, in 20 years the average person will be diabetic.
Yes, diabetes means you should forgo grains, sugars and starches as much as possible, unless you want to slowly deteriorate over the course of your life because of the diabetes. It's a fact.
Do you know what causes diabetes? I don't think you do.
Yes I do. And I did not say grains, starches and sugar cause T2 diabetes. You should avoid grains, sugars and starches if you are pre-T2 or T2. Unless you want to inject large amounts of insulin for the rest of your life, likely gain weight, and likely be a lot less healthy than people who do not have T2.
Incorrect. You should manage them. You don't need to avoid them. Some T2's need to avoid certain grains and not others.
What T2's should do is reach a normal weight and become active.
Again, paging @earlnabby
I have read case after case on-line of people stopping or reversing T2 diabetes not by avoiding carbs (green veggies have carbs and you can eat all the green veggies you want), but avoiding, as best as you can, grains, starches and sugars. Why? Because they have a high glycemic index.
That's it. Not making this up. If you don't want to believe me, that's fine.
So, you know more than the collective brains of science-y type people who have been studying and treating diabetics for decades. Allrighty then.7 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »According to the AMA and other authoritative bodies within the United States, a "balanced diet" is not really all that subjective, and looks something like this:
However, I think you will find many people among the fad diet crowd who would not find this to be healthy at all. Such a diet would fill them with paranoia. Bread, cheese, rice, pasta, butter (on my!) or nearly any other individual food on the above graphic representing a balanced diet has to the potential to cause several dieting cults or "clean" eating psychos to lose their cookies. Why? Because most of these individual sects operate largely outside the realm of medical science and nutrition and rely instead on semantics and pop culture to forward their ideas.
Regardless of this, I know one universal way to improve health and decrease risk for a wide assortment of health related conditions and diseases, and that is to decrease your BMI. In this context your diet of choice is largely irrelevant. Be it clean, balanced or otherwise. the biological mechanism to achieve weight loss is identical.
If you are diabetic, that's a terrible diet. I wonder if the AMA makes a differentiation. PS - your average doctor knows nothing about diet and nutrition.
Why should the average person worry about being diabetic?
Diabetes also doesn't mean you have to forgo carbs.
Paging @earlnabby .
Because the way things are going, in 20 years the average person will be diabetic.
Yes, diabetes means you should forgo grains, sugars and starches as much as possible, unless you want to slowly deteriorate over the course of your life because of the diabetes. It's a fact.
Do you know what causes diabetes? I don't think you do.
Yes I do. And I did not say grains, starches and sugar cause T2 diabetes. You should avoid grains, sugars and starches if you are pre-T2 or T2. Unless you want to inject large amounts of insulin for the rest of your life, likely gain weight, and likely be a lot less healthy than people who do not have T2.
Incorrect. You should manage them. You don't need to avoid them. Some T2's need to avoid certain grains and not others.
What T2's should do is reach a normal weight and become active.
Again, paging @earlnabby
I have read case after case on-line of people stopping or reversing T2 diabetes not by avoiding carbs (green veggies have carbs and you can eat all the green veggies you want), but avoiding, as best as you can, grains, starches and sugars. Why? Because they have a high glycemic index.
That's it. Not making this up. If you don't want to believe me, that's fine.
Perhaps by avoiding grains, starches, and sugars they reduced their calories and lost weight? I find it odd that you are telling people with diabetes that what they and their doctors did to reverse their diabetes is wrong because... you read stuff online. You are saying that the American Diabetes Association and many diabetics here who have reversed all sorts of bad numbers, including diabetes, are wrong and your expertise is Google?9 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »According to the AMA and other authoritative bodies within the United States, a "balanced diet" is not really all that subjective, and looks something like this:
However, I think you will find many people among the fad diet crowd who would not find this to be healthy at all. Such a diet would fill them with paranoia. Bread, cheese, rice, pasta, butter (on my!) or nearly any other individual food on the above graphic representing a balanced diet has to the potential to cause several dieting cults or "clean" eating psychos to lose their cookies. Why? Because most of these individual sects operate largely outside the realm of medical science and nutrition and rely instead on semantics and pop culture to forward their ideas.
Regardless of this, I know one universal way to improve health and decrease risk for a wide assortment of health related conditions and diseases, and that is to decrease your BMI. In this context your diet of choice is largely irrelevant. Be it clean, balanced or otherwise. the biological mechanism to achieve weight loss is identical.
If you are diabetic, that's a terrible diet. I wonder if the AMA makes a differentiation. PS - your average doctor knows nothing about diet and nutrition.
Why should the average person worry about being diabetic?
Diabetes also doesn't mean you have to forgo carbs.
Paging @earlnabby .
Because the way things are going, in 20 years the average person will be diabetic.
Yes, diabetes means you should forgo grains, sugars and starches as much as possible, unless you want to slowly deteriorate over the course of your life because of the diabetes. It's a fact.
Do you know what causes diabetes? I don't think you do.
Yes I do. And I did not say grains, starches and sugar cause T2 diabetes. You should avoid grains, sugars and starches if you are pre-T2 or T2. Unless you want to inject large amounts of insulin for the rest of your life, likely gain weight, and likely be a lot less healthy than people who do not have T2.
Incorrect. You should manage them. You don't need to avoid them. Some T2's need to avoid certain grains and not others.
What T2's should do is reach a normal weight and become active.
Again, paging @earlnabby
I have read case after case on-line of people stopping or reversing T2 diabetes not by avoiding carbs (green veggies have carbs and you can eat all the green veggies you want), but avoiding, as best as you can, grains, starches and sugars. Why? Because they have a high glycemic index.
That's it. Not making this up. If you don't want to believe me, that's fine.
So, you know more than the collective brains of science-y type people who have been studying and treating diabetics for decades. Allrighty then.
Well if you read it online, it's true. I mean, c'mon earlnabby.
2 -
J9LynnHelton wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »According to the AMA and other authoritative bodies within the United States, a "balanced diet" is not really all that subjective, and looks something like this:
However, I think you will find many people among the fad diet crowd who would not find this to be healthy at all. Such a diet would fill them with paranoia. Bread, cheese, rice, pasta, butter (on my!) or nearly any other individual food on the above graphic representing a balanced diet has to the potential to cause several dieting cults or "clean" eating psychos to lose their cookies. Why? Because most of these individual sects operate largely outside the realm of medical science and nutrition and rely instead on semantics and pop culture to forward their ideas.
Regardless of this, I know one universal way to improve health and decrease risk for a wide assortment of health related conditions and diseases, and that is to decrease your BMI. In this context your diet of choice is largely irrelevant. Be it clean, balanced or otherwise. the biological mechanism to achieve weight loss is identical.
If you are diabetic, that's a terrible diet. I wonder if the AMA makes a differentiation. PS - your average doctor knows nothing about diet and nutrition.
Why should the average person worry about being diabetic?
Diabetes also doesn't mean you have to forgo carbs.
Paging @earlnabby .
Here. Better late than never.
Diabetics do not need to eliminate carbs. They DO need to watch them and limit on a sliding scale as needed to manage their disease. Some do best on low carb or even keto, others are good with moderate carbs. The types of carb-y food depends on the severity of the disease. Those who take insulin really need to know the total sugars as well as the total carbs in a meal in order to calculate the correct dosage. Those on oral medication or managing by diet and exercise can just monitor their total carbs for the day.
Fiber in the food slows the conversion to blood glucose. The difference is, you either have a spike and fall, or you have a slow rise and slow drop. Either way, your AVERAGE blood glucose for the day will be the same. There are some issues with the quick drop, especially for those on medication but for T2 diabetics not using insulin the average numbers are the most important. That is why they have their A1C checked every 3 months. It gives the average blood glucose over the previous 2-3 months (lifetime of a red blood cell).
Insulin is a good thing. It is what the body produces in order to handle glucose in the blood. In diabetics, there is a problem with that mechanism. Either the pancreas does not produce enough insulin (or none in the case of T1Dm) or the cells in your body do not handle insulin correctly (insulin resistance) allowing glucose to remain in the bloodstream. The excess glucose in the bloodstream is what causes damage. If it is not turned into energy or stored for future energy needs over time, the body has issues.
What you eat does NOT cause diabetes. Diabetes is a disease of the pancreas where the beta cells do not function properly. Doctors STILL do not know why it happens. They HAVE identified risk factors in those who developed the disease:- Genetics (family history and also racial heritage)
- Obesity
- Age (the pancreas gets old just like the rest f the body)
- Long term use of some medications like statins and certain types of antidepressant
- If you mother had gestational diabetes when carrying you
- Some cancer treatments, especially in childhood
- There is some correlation to environmental factors like exposure to arsenic and herbicides/pesticides but these need further study to determine an actual causation.
Most people who develop T2Dm have two or more of the risk factors, but many with a genetic risk don't need a second. Scientists do NOT know what actually triggers the disease.
The only risk factor totally under our control is obesity. Not only is it the #2 risk factor, it can combine with genetics to trigger the disease and it can contribute to the heart issues where statins are prescribed, which also are a risk factor.
Me, I was diagnosed at age 58. I have been overweight most of my adult life but became very obese in my 40's. Diabetes is unknown in my family even though many in my family have weight issues. I have been taking antidepressants for the last 15 years to deal with Major Depressive Disorder (which does run in my family). I started losing weight immediately after diagnosis and limiting my carbs to a maximum of 180 grams per day (the amount recommended by my Certified Diabetes Educator PCP). My starting A1c was 7.3. I was on medication for 8 months and when my A1C dropped to 5.5 in that time I was taken off the meds. I still have 60 lb to lose, but my A1C has stayed between 5.0 and 5.5 ever since. My calories are lower now so I changed my maximum carbs to 160.
I am a T2Dm in remission, managing by diet and exercise.
Earlnabby
I had gestational diabetes with all the of my children (not diagnosed with my first causing preclempsia and having to be induced early). I thought that was a warning sign for me of becoming diabetic. I did not know it was a warning sign for my children. So, am I more likely to become diabetic, or just my kids?
From what I have read, it is a risk factor for both. Again, those studying the disease say that MOST people who develop diabetes have two or more risk factors so staying at a healthy weight and remaining active are even more important to them. here is some info from the American Diabetes Association: "High Prevalence of Type 2 Diabetes and Pre-Diabetes in Adult Offspring of Women with Gestational Diabetes Mellitus or Type 1 Diabetes – The Role of Intrauterine Hyperglycemia" http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/early/2007/11/13/dc07-1596
Wow, I need to let my kids know. They eat very healthy and are all very thin, but was thin too until kids and 4-0 hit. Thank you for the info.0 -
J9LynnHelton wrote: »J9LynnHelton wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »According to the AMA and other authoritative bodies within the United States, a "balanced diet" is not really all that subjective, and looks something like this:
However, I think you will find many people among the fad diet crowd who would not find this to be healthy at all. Such a diet would fill them with paranoia. Bread, cheese, rice, pasta, butter (on my!) or nearly any other individual food on the above graphic representing a balanced diet has to the potential to cause several dieting cults or "clean" eating psychos to lose their cookies. Why? Because most of these individual sects operate largely outside the realm of medical science and nutrition and rely instead on semantics and pop culture to forward their ideas.
Regardless of this, I know one universal way to improve health and decrease risk for a wide assortment of health related conditions and diseases, and that is to decrease your BMI. In this context your diet of choice is largely irrelevant. Be it clean, balanced or otherwise. the biological mechanism to achieve weight loss is identical.
If you are diabetic, that's a terrible diet. I wonder if the AMA makes a differentiation. PS - your average doctor knows nothing about diet and nutrition.
Why should the average person worry about being diabetic?
Diabetes also doesn't mean you have to forgo carbs.
Paging @earlnabby .
Here. Better late than never.
Diabetics do not need to eliminate carbs. They DO need to watch them and limit on a sliding scale as needed to manage their disease. Some do best on low carb or even keto, others are good with moderate carbs. The types of carb-y food depends on the severity of the disease. Those who take insulin really need to know the total sugars as well as the total carbs in a meal in order to calculate the correct dosage. Those on oral medication or managing by diet and exercise can just monitor their total carbs for the day.
Fiber in the food slows the conversion to blood glucose. The difference is, you either have a spike and fall, or you have a slow rise and slow drop. Either way, your AVERAGE blood glucose for the day will be the same. There are some issues with the quick drop, especially for those on medication but for T2 diabetics not using insulin the average numbers are the most important. That is why they have their A1C checked every 3 months. It gives the average blood glucose over the previous 2-3 months (lifetime of a red blood cell).
Insulin is a good thing. It is what the body produces in order to handle glucose in the blood. In diabetics, there is a problem with that mechanism. Either the pancreas does not produce enough insulin (or none in the case of T1Dm) or the cells in your body do not handle insulin correctly (insulin resistance) allowing glucose to remain in the bloodstream. The excess glucose in the bloodstream is what causes damage. If it is not turned into energy or stored for future energy needs over time, the body has issues.
What you eat does NOT cause diabetes. Diabetes is a disease of the pancreas where the beta cells do not function properly. Doctors STILL do not know why it happens. They HAVE identified risk factors in those who developed the disease:- Genetics (family history and also racial heritage)
- Obesity
- Age (the pancreas gets old just like the rest f the body)
- Long term use of some medications like statins and certain types of antidepressant
- If you mother had gestational diabetes when carrying you
- Some cancer treatments, especially in childhood
- There is some correlation to environmental factors like exposure to arsenic and herbicides/pesticides but these need further study to determine an actual causation.
Most people who develop T2Dm have two or more of the risk factors, but many with a genetic risk don't need a second. Scientists do NOT know what actually triggers the disease.
The only risk factor totally under our control is obesity. Not only is it the #2 risk factor, it can combine with genetics to trigger the disease and it can contribute to the heart issues where statins are prescribed, which also are a risk factor.
Me, I was diagnosed at age 58. I have been overweight most of my adult life but became very obese in my 40's. Diabetes is unknown in my family even though many in my family have weight issues. I have been taking antidepressants for the last 15 years to deal with Major Depressive Disorder (which does run in my family). I started losing weight immediately after diagnosis and limiting my carbs to a maximum of 180 grams per day (the amount recommended by my Certified Diabetes Educator PCP). My starting A1c was 7.3. I was on medication for 8 months and when my A1C dropped to 5.5 in that time I was taken off the meds. I still have 60 lb to lose, but my A1C has stayed between 5.0 and 5.5 ever since. My calories are lower now so I changed my maximum carbs to 160.
I am a T2Dm in remission, managing by diet and exercise.
Earlnabby
I had gestational diabetes with all the of my children (not diagnosed with my first causing preclempsia and having to be induced early). I thought that was a warning sign for me of becoming diabetic. I did not know it was a warning sign for my children. So, am I more likely to become diabetic, or just my kids?
From what I have read, it is a risk factor for both. Again, those studying the disease say that MOST people who develop diabetes have two or more risk factors so staying at a healthy weight and remaining active are even more important to them. here is some info from the American Diabetes Association: "High Prevalence of Type 2 Diabetes and Pre-Diabetes in Adult Offspring of Women with Gestational Diabetes Mellitus or Type 1 Diabetes – The Role of Intrauterine Hyperglycemia" http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/early/2007/11/13/dc07-1596
Wow, I need to let my kids know. They eat very healthy and are all very thin, but do war I until kids and 4-0 hit. Thank you for the info.
Lol. Translation?2 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »According to the AMA and other authoritative bodies within the United States, a "balanced diet" is not really all that subjective, and looks something like this:
However, I think you will find many people among the fad diet crowd who would not find this to be healthy at all. Such a diet would fill them with paranoia. Bread, cheese, rice, pasta, butter (on my!) or nearly any other individual food on the above graphic representing a balanced diet has to the potential to cause several dieting cults or "clean" eating psychos to lose their cookies. Why? Because most of these individual sects operate largely outside the realm of medical science and nutrition and rely instead on semantics and pop culture to forward their ideas.
Regardless of this, I know one universal way to improve health and decrease risk for a wide assortment of health related conditions and diseases, and that is to decrease your BMI. In this context your diet of choice is largely irrelevant. Be it clean, balanced or otherwise. the biological mechanism to achieve weight loss is identical.
If you are diabetic, that's a terrible diet. I wonder if the AMA makes a differentiation. PS - your average doctor knows nothing about diet and nutrition.
Why should the average person worry about being diabetic?
Diabetes also doesn't mean you have to forgo carbs.
Paging @earlnabby .
Because the way things are going, in 20 years the average person will be diabetic.
Yes, diabetes means you should forgo grains, sugars and starches as much as possible, unless you want to slowly deteriorate over the course of your life because of the diabetes. It's a fact.
Do you know what causes diabetes? I don't think you do.
Yes I do. And I did not say grains, starches and sugar cause T2 diabetes. You should avoid grains, sugars and starches if you are pre-T2 or T2. Unless you want to inject large amounts of insulin for the rest of your life, likely gain weight, and likely be a lot less healthy than people who do not have T2.
Incorrect. You should manage them. You don't need to avoid them. Some T2's need to avoid certain grains and not others.
What T2's should do is reach a normal weight and become active.
Again, paging @earlnabby
I have read case after case on-line of people stopping or reversing T2 diabetes not by avoiding carbs (green veggies have carbs and you can eat all the green veggies you want), but avoiding, as best as you can, grains, starches and sugars. Why? Because they have a high glycemic index.
That's it. Not making this up. If you don't want to believe me, that's fine.
Perhaps by avoiding grains, starches, and sugars they reduced their calories and lost weight? I find it odd that you are telling people with diabetes that what they and their doctors did to reverse their diabetes is wrong because... you read stuff online. You are saying that the American Diabetes Association and many diabetics here who have reversed all sorts of bad numbers, including diabetes, are wrong and your expertise is Google?
Yes, I can see by the great reduction in the number of Type 2 diabetics that the American Diabetes Association has really done a great job over the years with their dietary recommendations.
That argument of yours makes no logical sense because the recommendations to TREAT diabetes have nothing to do with the growing number of diagnosed T2D's and what CAUSES diabetes.
You are conflating cause and treatment.
4 -
cmriverside wrote: »J9LynnHelton wrote: »J9LynnHelton wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »According to the AMA and other authoritative bodies within the United States, a "balanced diet" is not really all that subjective, and looks something like this:
However, I think you will find many people among the fad diet crowd who would not find this to be healthy at all. Such a diet would fill them with paranoia. Bread, cheese, rice, pasta, butter (on my!) or nearly any other individual food on the above graphic representing a balanced diet has to the potential to cause several dieting cults or "clean" eating psychos to lose their cookies. Why? Because most of these individual sects operate largely outside the realm of medical science and nutrition and rely instead on semantics and pop culture to forward their ideas.
Regardless of this, I know one universal way to improve health and decrease risk for a wide assortment of health related conditions and diseases, and that is to decrease your BMI. In this context your diet of choice is largely irrelevant. Be it clean, balanced or otherwise. the biological mechanism to achieve weight loss is identical.
If you are diabetic, that's a terrible diet. I wonder if the AMA makes a differentiation. PS - your average doctor knows nothing about diet and nutrition.
Why should the average person worry about being diabetic?
Diabetes also doesn't mean you have to forgo carbs.
Paging @earlnabby .
Here. Better late than never.
Diabetics do not need to eliminate carbs. They DO need to watch them and limit on a sliding scale as needed to manage their disease. Some do best on low carb or even keto, others are good with moderate carbs. The types of carb-y food depends on the severity of the disease. Those who take insulin really need to know the total sugars as well as the total carbs in a meal in order to calculate the correct dosage. Those on oral medication or managing by diet and exercise can just monitor their total carbs for the day.
Fiber in the food slows the conversion to blood glucose. The difference is, you either have a spike and fall, or you have a slow rise and slow drop. Either way, your AVERAGE blood glucose for the day will be the same. There are some issues with the quick drop, especially for those on medication but for T2 diabetics not using insulin the average numbers are the most important. That is why they have their A1C checked every 3 months. It gives the average blood glucose over the previous 2-3 months (lifetime of a red blood cell).
Insulin is a good thing. It is what the body produces in order to handle glucose in the blood. In diabetics, there is a problem with that mechanism. Either the pancreas does not produce enough insulin (or none in the case of T1Dm) or the cells in your body do not handle insulin correctly (insulin resistance) allowing glucose to remain in the bloodstream. The excess glucose in the bloodstream is what causes damage. If it is not turned into energy or stored for future energy needs over time, the body has issues.
What you eat does NOT cause diabetes. Diabetes is a disease of the pancreas where the beta cells do not function properly. Doctors STILL do not know why it happens. They HAVE identified risk factors in those who developed the disease:- Genetics (family history and also racial heritage)
- Obesity
- Age (the pancreas gets old just like the rest f the body)
- Long term use of some medications like statins and certain types of antidepressant
- If you mother had gestational diabetes when carrying you
- Some cancer treatments, especially in childhood
- There is some correlation to environmental factors like exposure to arsenic and herbicides/pesticides but these need further study to determine an actual causation.
Most people who develop T2Dm have two or more of the risk factors, but many with a genetic risk don't need a second. Scientists do NOT know what actually triggers the disease.
The only risk factor totally under our control is obesity. Not only is it the #2 risk factor, it can combine with genetics to trigger the disease and it can contribute to the heart issues where statins are prescribed, which also are a risk factor.
Me, I was diagnosed at age 58. I have been overweight most of my adult life but became very obese in my 40's. Diabetes is unknown in my family even though many in my family have weight issues. I have been taking antidepressants for the last 15 years to deal with Major Depressive Disorder (which does run in my family). I started losing weight immediately after diagnosis and limiting my carbs to a maximum of 180 grams per day (the amount recommended by my Certified Diabetes Educator PCP). My starting A1c was 7.3. I was on medication for 8 months and when my A1C dropped to 5.5 in that time I was taken off the meds. I still have 60 lb to lose, but my A1C has stayed between 5.0 and 5.5 ever since. My calories are lower now so I changed my maximum carbs to 160.
I am a T2Dm in remission, managing by diet and exercise.
Earlnabby
I had gestational diabetes with all the of my children (not diagnosed with my first causing preclempsia and having to be induced early). I thought that was a warning sign for me of becoming diabetic. I did not know it was a warning sign for my children. So, am I more likely to become diabetic, or just my kids?
From what I have read, it is a risk factor for both. Again, those studying the disease say that MOST people who develop diabetes have two or more risk factors so staying at a healthy weight and remaining active are even more important to them. here is some info from the American Diabetes Association: "High Prevalence of Type 2 Diabetes and Pre-Diabetes in Adult Offspring of Women with Gestational Diabetes Mellitus or Type 1 Diabetes – The Role of Intrauterine Hyperglycemia" http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/early/2007/11/13/dc07-1596
Wow, I need to let my kids know. They eat very healthy and are all very thin, but do war I until kids and 4-0 hit. Thank you for the info.
Lol. Translation?
But I was too until kids and 4-0 hit. Wow,lol, I need to proofread.3
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