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Addicted to sugar DEBATE
Replies
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If people can be addicted to gambling, sex, drugs, etc, why is it so hard to accept that someone can be addicted to consuming sugar? They all cause reactions inside the body that release hormones that make us feel good, therefore we keep going back to that thing that gives us that feeling. People can be addicted to sugar just like anything else.What is gained by this?
Is there a "Hey I'm addicted too?" trophy the rest of us aren't aware of?
I think her point was that being pedantic about sugar addiction isn't helpful, plus since there is behavioral addiction, why bother insisting that sugar is not physically addictive. Something doesn't need to be physically addictive to be a problem - for example, gambling.
What IS helpful is suggesting strategies for changing behavior.10 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »nvsmomketo, this is not directed at you, since I know your issues are with carbs in general!
However, for those who assert that they have a sugar addiction and that makes things harder, I wonder what you think of my comments above about mostly having fruit when craving sugar. If the problem with the "addiction" is that you tend to overeat or eat less healthful foods, wouldn't doing that, and otherwise eating enough protein and fat (which should not be too hard) make the "addiction" harmless?
I am always curious about this when people insist they are struggling with sugar or carb cravings or have difficulty because of a sugar addiction.
I happen to think it's good to learn to consume even other kinds of sweet treats in moderation if you can, but if the desire is simply for sugar this seems like a good way to satisfy it.
While I don't claim to have a sugar addiction, I will say that moderating peach desserts is difficult for me. However, moderating peaches is not. I can be satisfied with 30 calories of peaches, yet it's difficult to stop at 300 calories of peach pie or cake. Pre MFP, there would have been 300 calories of vanilla ice cream as well.
(Those are actual numbers - had 31 calories of peaches after dinner and the pie servings were over 300 calories.)
I went peach picking at a local orchard last month. You have to get a minimum - in this case a half peck, which came to 6 pounds. I made a peach kuchen and a peach pie. One way I moderate baked goods is make them on Saturday and share them with my mother and brother on Sunday.
I hardly ever make pies and wasn't happy with the way it came out - I was using my mother's cousin's wife's recipe from a 1945 cook book and the directions were quite sparse. I was going to try again this weekend using a JOC recipe which was very similar except it added 3 T of flour in with the peaches and had actual directions regarding temperatures and times.
But my mother was critical about my use of white flour and my aunt will be there this weekend and she is super critical of all kinds of foods, so I've decided to just enjoy the fruit plain.
But I did enjoy the silly email exchanges with my cousins about this pie recipe. My cousin even wrote a poem about it!
You gotta share the poem! Ode to a sparsely detailed peach pie recipe? Genius!
@nutmegoreo it was more an ode to his mother and her pie making, but here it is:
A Cousin Asks for a Recipe for My Mother’s Peach Pie
for Mary and Trudy
In my mind, there is still
that fruity smudge
grazing the taste buds,
the glazed confection that once
jangled the sweet tooth
of any summer visitor or host.
Now, a hardier friend, swapping
stories at her husband’s
post-funeral gathering,
remembers her and my mother’s cohort
with a tear traded for a guffaw,
a smiling grimace at the joke
I pulled off at my mother’s expense.
The peach trees still spread
their blossoms and stones
over the dessert plates
of a history more sad than sugar,
of pie crusts pricked to vent
the ripening steam.
My mother’s hand
was a sometimes glad hand
back-tracing the small stains
that betrayal had carved
into her rolling pin’s wood.
Her fingertips pressed into the dough,
crimping the crust, crisscrossing
the doughy strips into ladders
of a tart collusion of peeled crescents
and lemon zest
that soon melted along the back
of the tongue
before it was lost
in the acid churn
of the gut.
And yet they still spring their legends,
those delectable wedges
doled out in summer idylls
by pond or bay or in the thicket
of suburban smog,
even if she
has lost herself in the small vapors
and wisps that time turns to film
on the bottom of a glass pie plate
that can never be scraped
utterly clean.10 -
kshama2001 wrote: »If people can be addicted to gambling, sex, drugs, etc, why is it so hard to accept that someone can be addicted to consuming sugar? They all cause reactions inside the body that release hormones that make us feel good, therefore we keep going back to that thing that gives us that feeling. People can be addicted to sugar just like anything else.What is gained by this?
Is there a "Hey I'm addicted too?" trophy the rest of us aren't aware of?
I think her point was that being pedantic about sugar addiction isn't helpful, plus since there is behavioral addiction, why bother insisting that sugar is not physically addictive. Something doesn't need to be physically addictive to be a problem - for example, gambling.
What IS helpful is suggesting strategies for changing behavior.
I realize this is my pet peeve, but I also think calling it what it is can be helpful.
If someone insists that their issue is just addiction to blackjack, and ignores that they have an issue with the lottery ('cause they are in denial that that's gambling) or the stock market, that's a problem.
The issue with "sugar" or "carbs" on this site is really the opposite. It's so trendy to see sugar (or carbs) as the source of all evil, that people blame them and claim "sugar addiction" when the truth is (with some exceptions, sure) that their issues if they actually think about it are different. For example, they may have zero problems consuming fruit (and not even have an interest in fruit sometimes). Yet fruit is a high sugar food, and if the issue were -- as is often claimed -- a physical issue with sugar or even a "behavioral" addiction to "sugar" (whatever that would mean), fruit ought to inspire the same reaction.
Similarly, it may be that the issue isn't sugar at all, but a use of foods the person likes (often sweets if the person has a sweet tooth, but perhaps cupcakes and cookies, not soda, because of taste preferences, or even oatmeal cookies, not Oreos) for emotional purposes. If the person stops sweets, they may find they are using other foods that they love for the same purpose.
Or in other cases it might not be this at all. It might be a pattern of saying "this is bad for me, I'm never eating this again" and then blowing it and feeling like it's ruined but also thinking "I'll never have this again, so I might as well make the best of it and eat it ALL!"
Or it could be an eating addiction of sorts, or a bingeing problem.
I don't really care if the person wants to call the issue "addiction" and in some cases I might agree (and it doesn't really matter," but being specific about what's going on is ESSENTIAL to getting good advice and working it out for yourself, IMO.
The idea that it's just a SUGAR ADDICTION because SUGAR is BAD and ADDICTIVE, physically, like heroin (which is commonly insisted on, not by OP, but by some other poster quoting some anti sugar guru or another), and that all sugar addictions are the same and mean you can never have sugar (or never have BAD sugar, because fruit sugar is different and not addictive -- which makes no sense, it just doesn't, it's scientifically inaccurate), IMO really prevents a sensible discussion of what would help with feeling out of control and getting a handle on it, IMO.
I get the impression that you want to prevent this kind of more specific discussion and just say "oh, well, it's sugar addiction, so..." and I really don't see how that's helpful. Whether it's called addiction or not, it's generally not really just sugar or all sugar, the issue is NOT that the body is having a physical withdrawal (it could be keto flu, but one can cut way down on sugary treats without keto flu), and making it all about sugar rather than being specific about what exactly is the difficulty, what is being craved or overeaten or missed or whatever and when and why and under what circumstances seems to me to be what prevents real discussion of strategies.
And I will note I gave some strategy ideas in the other thread that I found helpful in my own experience.10 -
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The issue with "sugar" or "carbs" on this site is really the opposite. It's so trendy to see sugar (or carbs) as the source of all evil, that people blame them and claim "sugar addiction" when the truth is (with some exceptions, sure) that their issues if they actually think about it are different. For example, they may have zero problems consuming fruit (and not even have an interest in fruit sometimes). Yet fruit is a high sugar food, and if the issue were -- as is often claimed -- a physical issue with sugar or even a "behavioral" addiction to "sugar" (whatever that would mean), fruit ought to inspire the same reaction.
Here's the thing with fruit. I have eaten pounds of apples, peaches, cherries, watermelon, fruit salad, grapes, mangoes, pineapple. I have binged on hundreds and hundreds of calories and huge bowls of fruit. LOL, there are consequences to fruit. First of all the obvious consequence that we all know is the fiber/water/it has to go somewhere issue. Second is that it is really filling, so it's hard to keep eating it until the high kicks in, because I have to eat so much of it to get the same brain-kick as straight sugar. Straight sugar or candy is like mainlining fruit. So it is basically the same thing, only without physical discomfort/consequences.
Anyone who has been an alcohol or drug addict knows that it starts with wine or beer on the weekends and/or pot and in the end, it takes heroin or meth and Jack Daniels or vodka in the handles - or six bottles of wine or 30 cans of beer Every Day. Hard liquor is easier, less bloating, quicker drunk. There is a progression and a tolerance, and it happens by over-loading those receptors in the brain. The desire to feel that dopamine rush is strong, and it gets harder to achieve, hence the higher alcohol percentage products (or just greater quantity.)
Humans weren't created to ingest this level of concentrated sugars in such quantity. The dopamine receptor gates are blown wide open and more and more receptors are created to intake the overwhelming flow of dopamine released by the concentrated sugar (same thing happens with alcohol/drugs.)Those additional receptors mean additional cravings. If we didn't have processed sugars, we would all be just eating normal amounts of carbs and a little honey and maple because it would be so expensive. A grass (sugar cane and corn) that is so easily produced has made a big problem out of this. People with compulsion issues may have started out with a little behavior problem but it becomes a physical problem in time and with over-consumption and that is partly due to cheap availability in the last century.
It's a physical/physiological thing that happens. It really happens. Of course it's complicated. Human behavior always is.
The DSM isn't written to include it - yet. It will be. It may be "simple carbs" but I think it should be "sugar," it's just difficult to get a definition. And you can split hairs all you want, it's a real thing. Problem is, then that's one more "disease" the insurance companies and the food industry really doesn't want to see happen, so it's gonna take time and people speaking up. It took decades for, "Alcohol Dependence," to become something other than a character defect. It isn't all a thinking problem.16 -
...and I finished off the Little Debbies.
But now I'll be up until 1AM with all this zippity doo dah extra energy. 
0 -
cmriverside wrote: »...and I finished off the Little Debbies. But now I'll be up until 1AM with all this zippity doo dah extra energy.
LOL! Can you get some housework done? Thats usually what i do
Thank you for posting what you have in this thread. What still leaves me wondering though, is at least in my recollection you are literally the only poster who has said that you would eat straight sugar or large amounts of fruits.
So perhaps an actual sugar addiction is a real but rare thing that is being co-opted by anti-sugar mania? Most people who talk about it say they got over their addiction by switching to fruits, or honey, or something else they consider "healthy". Honestly if everyone's situation sounded as you described, I would probably have a different opinion on the issue.4 -
Well, but no one can eat enough fruit...and why would anyone be honest about it? On this forum you get shouted down.
I've been here long enough to not care, and I've seen enough people with similar stories who get shut down by the vocal few. Even some long-time high-count posters have given up on this debate because it's exhausting. I know what I know about my experience, but it's not easy to stand up for my personal truth when it is so against the MFP dogma. I'm on an addiction forum as well, and this story is very common over there - where it doesn't get poo-pooed.8 -
cmriverside wrote: »...and I finished off the Little Debbies. But now I'll be up until 1AM with all this zippity doo dah extra energy.
LOL! Can you get some housework done? Thats usually what i do
Thank you for posting what you have in this thread. What still leaves me wondering though, is at least in my recollection you are literally the only poster who has said that you would eat straight sugar or large amounts of fruits.
So perhaps an actual sugar addiction is a real but rare thing that is being co-opted by anti-sugar mania? Most people who talk about it say they got over their addiction by switching to fruits, or honey, or something else they consider "healthy". Honestly if everyone's situation sounded as you described, I would probably have a different opinion on the issue.
I've done that too but I don't like fruit a lot. I would eat a lot of grapes, pineapple or dried fruit. Lots of dried fruit - like a soup bowl of raisins... maybe with a bit of cereal. I've "overdosed" on dried prunes and apricots when that was all I had. So not good.
When I had fruit, I just wanted more sugars. I was not satiated. If I have my sugars, I NEVER say "that was enough because I had my little bit".3 -
ooooohhhhhh apricots. Raisins. I've gotten sick a couple times from apricots.
It seems dates are a big thing with sugar cravers. I know more than one person who "broke" their sugar thing but buy Costco size bags of dates. *nods*2 -
cmriverside wrote: »The issue with "sugar" or "carbs" on this site is really the opposite. It's so trendy to see sugar (or carbs) as the source of all evil, that people blame them and claim "sugar addiction" when the truth is (with some exceptions, sure) that their issues if they actually think about it are different. For example, they may have zero problems consuming fruit (and not even have an interest in fruit sometimes). Yet fruit is a high sugar food, and if the issue were -- as is often claimed -- a physical issue with sugar or even a "behavioral" addiction to "sugar" (whatever that would mean), fruit ought to inspire the same reaction.
Here's the thing with fruit. I have eaten pounds of apples, peaches, cherries, watermelon, fruit salad, grapes, mangoes, pineapple. I have binged on hundreds and hundreds of calories and huge bowls of fruit. LOL, there are consequences to fruit. First of all the obvious consequence that we all know is the fiber/water/it has to go somewhere issue. Second is that it is really filling, so it's hard to keep eating it until the high kicks in, because I have to eat so much of it to get the same brain-kick as straight sugar. Straight sugar or candy is like mainlining fruit. So it is basically the same thing, only without physical discomfort/consequences.
Anyone who has been an alcohol or drug addict knows that it starts with wine or beer on the weekends and/or pot and in the end, it takes heroin or meth and Jack Daniels or vodka in the handles - or six bottles of wine or 30 cans of beer Every Day. Hard liquor is easier, less bloating, quicker drunk. There is a progression and a tolerance, and it happens by over-loading those receptors in the brain. The desire to feel that dopamine rush is strong, and it gets harder to achieve, hence the higher alcohol percentage products (or just greater quantity.)
Humans weren't created to ingest this level of concentrated sugars in such quantity. The dopamine receptor gates are blown wide open and more and more receptors are created to intake the overwhelming flow of dopamine released by the concentrated sugar (same thing happens with alcohol/drugs.)Those additional receptors mean additional cravings. If we didn't have processed sugars, we would all be just eating normal amounts of carbs and a little honey and maple because it would be so expensive. A grass (sugar cane and corn) that is so easily produced has made a big problem out of this. People with compulsion issues may have started out with a little behavior problem but it becomes a physical problem in time and with over-consumption and that is partly due to cheap availability in the last century.
It's a physical/physiological thing that happens. It really happens. Of course it's complicated. Human behavior always is.
The DSM isn't written to include it - yet. It will be. It may be "simple carbs" but I think it should be "sugar," it's just difficult to get a definition. And you can split hairs all you want, it's a real thing. Problem is, then that's one more "disease" the insurance companies and the food industry really doesn't want to see happen, so it's gonna take time and people speaking up. It took decades for, "Alcohol Dependence," to become something other than a character defect. It isn't all a thinking problem.
Any research to back those claims?3 -
cmriverside wrote: »Well, but no one can eat enough fruit...and why would anyone be honest about it? On this forum you get shouted down.
I've been here long enough to not care, and I've seen enough people with similar stories who get shut down by the vocal few. Even some long-time high-count posters have given up on this debate because it's exhausting. I know what I know about my experience, but it's not easy to stand up for my personal truth when it is so against the MFP dogma. I'm on an addiction forum as well, and this story is very common over there - where it doesn't get poo-pooed.
It's fine to have your own anecdote and/or your own opinion/perception of the situation...but no one gets their own personal truth. The facts are what they are.
Fact is, there's no scientific evidence (despite your anecdotal experience) that sugar is a physically addictive substance in humans.5 -
An interesting opinion piece published recently called "The Pursuit of Pleasure is a Modern Day Addiction"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/09/pursuit-of-pleasure-modern-day-addiction
In this piece, the author argues that it's the dopamine our brains release when we do something pleasurable which is the true addiction. So if we drink alcohol, smoke, eat sugar, look at porn, get friended on FB, we get a release of dopamine...which causes us to want more dopamine so we repeat the activity that gives us that feel good feeling. He talks about how serotonin is the feel good but satisfied feeling and how modern day stress reduce serotonin levels such that we are seeking more dopamine. He basically points to the increasing rates of depression ( linked to low serotonin...caused by stress in his opinion) as a symptom of this increased need for dopamine.7 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »If people can be addicted to gambling, sex, drugs, etc, why is it so hard to accept that someone can be addicted to consuming sugar? They all cause reactions inside the body that release hormones that make us feel good, therefore we keep going back to that thing that gives us that feeling. People can be addicted to sugar just like anything else.What is gained by this?
Is there a "Hey I'm addicted too?" trophy the rest of us aren't aware of?
I think her point was that being pedantic about sugar addiction isn't helpful, plus since there is behavioral addiction, why bother insisting that sugar is not physically addictive. Something doesn't need to be physically addictive to be a problem - for example, gambling.
What IS helpful is suggesting strategies for changing behavior.
I realize this is my pet peeve, but I also think calling it what it is can be helpful.
If someone insists that their issue is just addiction to blackjack, and ignores that they have an issue with the lottery ('cause they are in denial that that's gambling) or the stock market, that's a problem.
The issue with "sugar" or "carbs" on this site is really the opposite. It's so trendy to see sugar (or carbs) as the source of all evil, that people blame them and claim "sugar addiction" when the truth is (with some exceptions, sure) that their issues if they actually think about it are different. For example, they may have zero problems consuming fruit (and not even have an interest in fruit sometimes). Yet fruit is a high sugar food, and if the issue were -- as is often claimed -- a physical issue with sugar or even a "behavioral" addiction to "sugar" (whatever that would mean), fruit ought to inspire the same reaction.
Similarly, it may be that the issue isn't sugar at all, but a use of foods the person likes (often sweets if the person has a sweet tooth, but perhaps cupcakes and cookies, not soda, because of taste preferences, or even oatmeal cookies, not Oreos) for emotional purposes. If the person stops sweets, they may find they are using other foods that they love for the same purpose.
Or in other cases it might not be this at all. It might be a pattern of saying "this is bad for me, I'm never eating this again" and then blowing it and feeling like it's ruined but also thinking "I'll never have this again, so I might as well make the best of it and eat it ALL!"
Or it could be an eating addiction of sorts, or a bingeing problem.
I don't really care if the person wants to call the issue "addiction" and in some cases I might agree (and it doesn't really matter," but being specific about what's going on is ESSENTIAL to getting good advice and working it out for yourself, IMO.
The idea that it's just a SUGAR ADDICTION because SUGAR is BAD and ADDICTIVE, physically, like heroin (which is commonly insisted on, not by OP, but by some other poster quoting some anti sugar guru or another), and that all sugar addictions are the same and mean you can never have sugar (or never have BAD sugar, because fruit sugar is different and not addictive -- which makes no sense, it just doesn't, it's scientifically inaccurate), IMO really prevents a sensible discussion of what would help with feeling out of control and getting a handle on it, IMO.
I get the impression that you want to prevent this kind of more specific discussion and just say "oh, well, it's sugar addiction, so..." and I really don't see how that's helpful. Whether it's called addiction or not, it's generally not really just sugar or all sugar, the issue is NOT that the body is having a physical withdrawal (it could be keto flu, but one can cut way down on sugary treats without keto flu), and making it all about sugar rather than being specific about what exactly is the difficulty, what is being craved or overeaten or missed or whatever and when and why and under what circumstances seems to me to be what prevents real discussion of strategies.
And I will note I gave some strategy ideas in the other thread that I found helpful in my own experience.
I agree with you and don't see why you are getting woos on this.
You give that you don't care that people call it addiction, neither do I. I also don't get how it makes sense that they do, but think ... I will bold here for emphasis... being specific about what's going on is ESSENTIAL to getting good advice and working out the issue each individual faces.
It doesn't help anyone in the long run to prematurely call their issue something simplistic when it's really complex.8 -
cmriverside wrote: »Well, but no one can eat enough fruit...and why would anyone be honest about it? On this forum you get shouted down.
I've been here long enough to not care, and I've seen enough people with similar stories who get shut down by the vocal few. Even some long-time high-count posters have given up on this debate because it's exhausting. I know what I know about my experience, but it's not easy to stand up for my personal truth when it is so against the MFP dogma. I'm on an addiction forum as well, and this story is very common over there - where it doesn't get poo-pooed.
You are one of the very few people I've ever seen say this stuff and are giving me pause here, so I'm open to thinking it's rare but can happen.
Saying that, I don't think it's helpful to confuse people who don't have the same issues you have with people like you.
I'll use an example of my issues with alcohol. I had problems with it in the past, and some troubling behaviors, but I wasn't an alcoholic.
I believe there's a rush some people have to call themselves addicts in a lot of cases, and being specific about what the real nature of their problem can be useful in determining just what strategies they need to employ to deal with their issues.6 -
cmriverside wrote: »...and I finished off the Little Debbies. But now I'll be up until 1AM with all this zippity doo dah extra energy.
LOL! Can you get some housework done? Thats usually what i do
Thank you for posting what you have in this thread. What still leaves me wondering though, is at least in my recollection you are literally the only poster who has said that you would eat straight sugar or large amounts of fruits.
So perhaps an actual sugar addiction is a real but rare thing that is being co-opted by anti-sugar mania? Most people who talk about it say they got over their addiction by switching to fruits, or honey, or something else they consider "healthy". Honestly if everyone's situation sounded as you described, I would probably have a different opinion on the issue.
I've done that too but I don't like fruit a lot. I would eat a lot of grapes, pineapple or dried fruit. Lots of dried fruit - like a soup bowl of raisins... maybe with a bit of cereal. I've "overdosed" on dried prunes and apricots when that was all I had. So not good.
When I had fruit, I just wanted more sugars. I was not satiated. If I have my sugars, I NEVER say "that was enough because I had my little bit".
I thought I recalled you posting recently that you eat berries on occasion since going keto. I'm confused now if this is your experience with fruit.4 -
if someone were addicted to sugar, wouldnt they be eating table sugar directly as well? if that is not the case, they are not addicted to sugar, but something else.4
-
An interesting opinion piece published recently called "The Pursuit of Pleasure is a Modern Day Addiction"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/09/pursuit-of-pleasure-modern-day-addiction
In this piece, the author argues that it's the dopamine our brains release when we do something pleasurable which is the true addiction. So if we drink alcohol, smoke, eat sugar, look at porn, get friended on FB, we get a release of dopamine...which causes us to want more dopamine so we repeat the activity that gives us that feel good feeling. He talks about how serotonin is the feel good but satisfied feeling and how modern day stress reduce serotonin levels such that we are seeking more dopamine. He basically points to the increasing rates of depression ( linked to low serotonin...caused by stress in his opinion) as a symptom of this increased need for dopamine.
The problem with this hypothesis is that dopamine is now considered the anticipation hormone. In studies it has been shown to release before the desired reward is given.
8 -
I reckon at the heart of this discussion it depends on how you define 'addiction'. If like me, you consider it to have a spectrum then yes, I believe sugar does have addictive qualities, though granted not as severe as drug/alcohol addiction.
If you are a person who regularly consumes a large amount of sugar (any kind) and then stop all forms of it, do you feel a longing to eat something high in sugars/carbs? Do you miss it? Do you feel somewhat empty? Does it consume your thoughts? Do you get cravings? If you stop do you feel somewhat unwell/lethargic etc... I agree it depends on how much you consumed before you went cold turkey and everything else, but I don't think anyone can disagree that there are addictive qualities to sugar.
For those who want a Journal Article/Literature Review: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.neubiorev.2007.04.019
(PDF of mentioned article)
http://www.lunaliving.org/pdf/evidence-for-sugar-addiction.-behavioral-and-neurochemical-effects-of-intermittent,-excessive-sugar-intake.pdf
1 -
cmriverside wrote: »@cmriverside I'm glad someone has the same view on this. Having struggled with addiction (and gone to treatment), I know that denying the physiological component of these kinds of things actually makes it harder for us to consciously change our behaviors. If I hadn't been taught about the way my body physically responds when I'm actively engaging in my addiction, I would have continued to beat myself up for not having the willpower to just not give in. Knowing that, yes, there is an actual, tangible thing happening in my body when I do this, and this is why it is so hard to stop, helped me find my resolve to do whatever it takes to not give in. Now I think: "Mind Over Matter." Yes, my biology drives me to want to engage in these addictive things, BUT, I KNOW they aren't good. Maybe it just pisses me off that my body tries really hard to make me give it these things, so, knowing that, when I consciously decide not to, it's like a big f-u to the addiction.
Sorry for the long post. Hopefully the OP will find something helpful among my rambling.
Yeah.
And those who are not believers are going to argue for many pages. I just find it easier to accept that other people (usually those who have not been addicted to some typically destructive thing like alcohol, pornography, drugs or gambling) - have different beliefs about this and I am not going to waste my day getting up in arms over it.
*cue* the hyper-palatable/fruit/vegetable arguments.
Actually, in previous discussions on the subject, it's the people who HAVE struggled with drug and alcohol addictions that are the most offended by the idea that sugar is addictive.
Cosigned7
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