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Do you think obese/overweight people should pay more for health insurance?
Replies
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your the one that assumed that..
I did not know that political correctness is only a creature of the left.
blaming anything you don't like on "political correctness" is a favorite hobby of the right. Don't feign ignorance. It's unbecoming.2 -
blaming anything you don't like on "political correctness" is a favorite hobby of the right. Don't feign ignorance. It's unbecoming.
go back and read what I said..I blamed it on lack of personal responsibility..
for the record I am a libertarian/independent...
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go back and read what I said..I blamed it on lack of personal responsibility..
for the record I am a libertarian/independent...
that's the other buzzword.
But this is beside the point of this thread.
fat people should pay more insurance, they are statistically more expensive to care for.
But for the 3rd time. Insurance companies already assume that you're fat, because most Americans are fat. So the better answer is that fit people should pay less. Charge everybody like they're fat and incentivize those who take care of themselves.4 -
stanmann571 wrote: »
Largely because a similarly sized although not 1:1 overlapping would do no work if they had their druthers.
I'm not sure where you're going with this. My point is that people work in crap jobs with crap insurance because that's the best they can get. Would they druther be working in some white-collar well-paying job? I would bet the majority would say "damn straight". I don't think they would druther live off the system if given a chance.1 -
I'm not sure where you're going with this. My point is that people work in crap jobs with crap insurance because that's the best they can get. Would they druther be working in some white-collar well-paying job? I would bet the majority would say "damn straight". I don't think they would druther live off the system if given a chance.
Maybe it is the best they can get at the moment, but a person always has the ability to improve themselves and their position in life. Some people have that desire and some don't. I believe the point was that there is a decent percentage that simply does not put in the effort to do that. Those same people tend to not be able to lose weight because of "genetics."1 -
when I started my lifestyle change I weighed 260lbs which is morbidly obese as far as the "charts" are concerned. I have since loss 70+lbs which puts me in the just the obese catagory and my goal weigh of 160ish puts me in the overweight catagory. So I would have loss almost 100lbs and still would need to pay a higher insurance because I have a goal weight in a catagory in which someone else considers to be an"unhealthy" weight? The problem with society is that we tend to associate Healthy with being a certain size. I didn't have medical issues at 260lbs and don't have any issues now. My sister is in a healthy weight catagory and recently had a double mastectomy so the cancer wouldn't kill her. My mother died at the age of 62, from lung cancer also at a healthy weight and exercised faithfully 4 times a week. My father died of colon cancer at the age of 59, also in a healthy weight catagory and didn't believe in cars so walked everywhere. One of my good friends, in a healthy weigh catagory who exercises regularly but loves to eat crap on a daily basis, is on blood pressure meds, as well as cholesterol meds and a diabetic. Where do you draw the line on what HEALTHY looks like? It's a slippery slope...4
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you know what this thread needs? more anecdotes. that'll convince people.3
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Maybe it is the best they can get at the moment, but a person always has the ability to improve themselves and their position in life. Some people have that desire and some don't. I believe the point was that there is a decent percentage that simply does not put in the effort to do that. Those same people tend to not be able to lose weight because of "genetics."
I really disagree with this, but I don't want to pursue it here since it's a sideline to the topic.0 -
when I started my lifestyle change I weighed 260lbs which is morbidly obese as far as the "charts" are concerned. I have since loss 70+lbs which puts me in the just the obese catagory and my goal weigh of 160ish puts me in the overweight catagory. So I would have loss almost 100lbs and still would need to pay a higher insurance because I have a goal weight in a catagory in which someone else considers to be an"unhealthy" weight? The problem with society is that we tend to associate Healthy with being a certain size. I didn't have medical issues at 260lbs and don't have any issues now. My sister is in a healthy weight catagory and recently had a double mastectomy so the cancer wouldn't kill her. My mother died at the age of 62, from lung cancer also at a healthy weight and exercised faithfully 4 times a week. My father died of colon cancer at the age of 59, also in a healthy weight catagory and didn't believe in cars so walked everywhere. One of my good friends, in a healthy weigh catagory who exercises regularly but loves to eat crap on a daily basis, is on blood pressure meds, as well as cholesterol meds and a diabetic. Where do you draw the line on what HEALTHY looks like? It's a slippery slope...
You would have before you know it. They don't call it morbidly obese for nothing.
Congrats on your progress to a healthy weight.5 -
you should check in to that. You might have to dig a little deeper. I had the same insurer for 5 years before I found out how to get discounts and rebates for making healthier lifestyle choices.
I do get some discounts for behaviors, but none of them are related to my weight, activity level, and diet.
They're for things like having an annual checkup, getting my biometrics done, and getting a flu shot.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
I do get some discounts for behaviors, but none of them are related to my weight, activity level, and diet.
They're for things like having an annual checkup, getting my biometrics done, and getting a flu shot.
Same here - loads of financial incentives via our wellness plan and insurance firm. The healthy habits have essentially negated the negative impact of having cancer in the risk profile.
We have benefits for the following: Exercising regularly, maintaining healthy BMI, annual medical/dental checkup, biometrics, vaccinations, getting enough sleep, etc. Even watching wellness videos is counted as a plus in this plan.0 -
Same here - loads of financial incentives via our wellness plan and insurance firm. The healthy habits have essentially negated the negative impact of having cancer in the risk profile.
We have benefits for the following: Exercising regularly, maintaining healthy BMI, annual medical/dental checkup, biometrics, vaccinations, getting enough sleep, etc. Even watching wellness videos is counted as a plus in this plan.
I'd like to have some of those, but it also seems like it would be kind of a pain to track some of it.0 -
does
Can't access that link ATM. But what obese adults spend is not the same as the actual cost is it? And I thought the cost overall was the point in question.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
I'd like to have some of those, but it also seems like it would be kind of a pain to track some of it.
Most of these are linked from Fitbit or other wearables and to my knowledge this is all "on your honor" verification. Perhaps this may come into play in an investigation of a claim, but I doubt it. The overall positive impact of carrot over stick outweighs the negative.
There is a very noticeable positive impact with our firm and while the pounds lost is private - it is very obvious that the entire company is on a healthier trend.1 -
Most of these are linked from Fitbit or other wearables and to my knowledge this is all "on your honor" verification. Perhaps this may come into play in an investigation of a claim, but I doubt it. The overall positive impact of carrot over stick outweighs the negative.
There is a very noticeable positive impact with our firm and while the pounds lost is private - it is very obvious that the entire company is on a healthier trend.
Oh, I didn't think about Fitbit. That would make it easier.0 -
My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
This really hits a nerve with me. It’s overpriced as it is! The middle class pay for so much we can barely survive as it is. We pay 200$/ week for health insurance in my family! Sure why not add more penalty’s because I’m not in my “healthy weight range”. You’d have to prove why the people would have to pay more. What if being obese is due to having a thyroid issue? I mean I guess that’s just an excuse to some people. Gahhhhhh
Can you tell I’m hangry at 4 am?!1 -
Iwannabfit76 wrote: »
This really hits a nerve with me. It’s overpriced as it is! The middle class pay for so much we can barely survive as it is. We pay 200$/ week for health insurance in my family! Sure why not add more penalty’s because I’m not in my “healthy weight range”. You’d have to prove why the people would have to pay more. What if being obese is due to having a thyroid issue? I mean I guess that’s just an excuse to some people. Gahhhhhh
Can you tell I’m hangry at 4 am?!
Here you go:
People who have obesity, compared to those with a normal or healthy weight, are at increased risk for many serious diseases and health conditions, including the following:
All-causes of death (mortality)
High blood pressure (Hypertension)
High LDL cholesterol, low HDL cholesterol, or high levels of triglycerides (Dyslipidemia)
Type 2 diabetes
Coronary heart disease
Stroke
Gallbladder disease
Osteoarthritis (a breakdown of cartilage and bone within a joint)
Sleep apnea and breathing problems
Some cancers (endometrial, breast, colon, kidney, gallbladder, and liver)
Low quality of life
Mental illness such as clinical depression, anxiety, and other mental disorders4,5
Body pain and difficulty with physical functioning
https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/index.html3 -
The proof is in the numbers. Insurance is about math, not feels.3
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Packerjohn wrote: »
Here you go:
People who have obesity, compared to those with a normal or healthy weight, are at increased risk for many serious diseases and health conditions, including the following:
All-causes of death (mortality)
High blood pressure (Hypertension)
High LDL cholesterol, low HDL cholesterol, or high levels of triglycerides (Dyslipidemia)
Type 2 diabetes
Coronary heart disease
Stroke
Gallbladder disease
Osteoarthritis (a breakdown of cartilage and bone within a joint)
Sleep apnea and breathing problems
Some cancers (endometrial, breast, colon, kidney, gallbladder, and liver)
Low quality of life
Mental illness such as clinical depression, anxiety, and other mental disorders4,5
Body pain and difficulty with physical functioning
https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/index.html
Not to mention, if a person is concerned about saving money then it would be in their best interest to lose weight. I would think a person's overall health would be prioritized, but sometimes inexplicably money is more important.0 -
Insurance is a business. All businesses need to make a profit. If a prospective client is at greater risk of sickness or death, this is a greater liability to an insurance company, not an asset. Therefore that person will either be denied coverage, or asked to pay a higher premium to mitigate the higher risk.1
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So I might be brining this thread back to life, but I actually have something to say about it. The vast majority of people are obese because they are misinformed or led down the wrong path about what to eat and what not to eat. Sugar conglomerates actually said that "fatty" foods is what causes wait gain because they are fat. A guy, who was funded by the sugar conglomerates, did a study and found that to be true, but it was debunked when real impartial studies were performed. But still the damage was done and the government backed the sugar companies and actually said sugar is better for you than fatty foods.
I think you'll see a huge decrease in the national obesity rates if the government stopped letting people buy energy drinks and whatever other junk food with their food stamps (I know they're not actually called food stamps. It's just a generic term). If they only let you buy Whole Foods instead of processed foods obesity rates would drop.
Teaching younger people what to eat and how to eat and the benefits of eating right would also bring down obesity rates greatly. I took a nutrition elective in college and was blown away by the amount of knowledge I didn't know.
It's all truly about peeling back the onion. Should an obese person who has a choice of being fit or not being fit be charged more for premiums, short simple answer is no. They have to know the consequences, and if they except a shorter more unhappy life then that's there choice. But also, I don't think I should be fitting the bill for someone's else's health insurance, but that's a different story.4 -
What sugar conglomerates?2
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joshdegen1 wrote: »So I might be brining this thread back to life, but I actually have something to say about it. The vast majority of people are obese because they are misinformed or led down the wrong path about what to eat and what not to eat. Sugar conglomerates actually said that "fatty" foods is what causes wait gain because they are fat. A guy, who was funded by the sugar conglomerates, did a study and found that to be true, but it was debunked when real impartial studies were performed. But still the damage was done and the government backed the sugar companies and actually said sugar is better for you than fatty foods.
I think you'll see a huge decrease in the national obesity rates if the government stopped letting people buy energy drinks and whatever other junk food with their food stamps (I know they're not actually called food stamps. It's just a generic term). If they only let you buy Whole Foods instead of processed foods obesity rates would drop.
Teaching younger people what to eat and how to eat and the benefits of eating right would also bring down obesity rates greatly. I took a nutrition elective in college and was blown away by the amount of knowledge I didn't know.
It's all truly about peeling back the onion. Should an obese person who has a choice of being fit or not being fit be charged more for premiums, short simple answer is no. They have to know the consequences, and if they except a shorter more unhappy life then that's there choice. But also, I don't think I should be fitting the bill for someone's else's health insurance, but that's a different story.
When exactly did the government say that sugar was better than foods containing fat? The government is a huge organization with many individuals and branches so I'm unclear what particular statement you're referring to here.4 -
joshdegen1 wrote: »So I might be brining this thread back to life, but I actually have something to say about it. The vast majority of people are obese because they are misinformed or led down the wrong path about what to eat and what not to eat. Sugar conglomerates actually said that "fatty" foods is what causes wait gain because they are fat. A guy, who was funded by the sugar conglomerates, did a study and found that to be true, but it was debunked when real impartial studies were performed. But still the damage was done and the government backed the sugar companies and actually said sugar is better for you than fatty foods.
I think you'll see a huge decrease in the national obesity rates if the government stopped letting people buy energy drinks and whatever other junk food with their food stamps (I know they're not actually called food stamps. It's just a generic term). If they only let you buy Whole Foods instead of processed foods obesity rates would drop.
Teaching younger people what to eat and how to eat and the benefits of eating right would also bring down obesity rates greatly. I took a nutrition elective in college and was blown away by the amount of knowledge I didn't know.
It's all truly about peeling back the onion. Should an obese person who has a choice of being fit or not being fit be charged more for premiums, short simple answer is no. They have to know the consequences, and if they except a shorter more unhappy life then that's there choice. But also, I don't think I should be fitting the bill for someone's else's health insurance, but that's a different story.
?? What on earth are you talking about?
Do you have peer-reviewed sources to back up your assertions?
What do food stamps have to do with insurance?
To the bolded - that doesn't make even a little bit of sense. Obese people shouldn't be charged more for insurance but you don't want to foot the bill? You're footing the bill with your insurance premiums.
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joshdegen1 wrote: »So I might be brining this thread back to life, but I actually have something to say about it. The vast majority of people are obese because they are misinformed or led down the wrong path about what to eat and what not to eat. Sugar conglomerates actually said that "fatty" foods is what causes wait gain because they are fat. A guy, who was funded by the sugar conglomerates, did a study and found that to be true, but it was debunked when real impartial studies were performed. But still the damage was done and the government backed the sugar companies and actually said sugar is better for you than fatty foods.
I think you'll see a huge decrease in the national obesity rates if the government stopped letting people buy energy drinks and whatever other junk food with their food stamps (I know they're not actually called food stamps. It's just a generic term). If they only let you buy Whole Foods instead of processed foods obesity rates would drop.
Teaching younger people what to eat and how to eat and the benefits of eating right would also bring down obesity rates greatly. I took a nutrition elective in college and was blown away by the amount of knowledge I didn't know.
It's all truly about peeling back the onion. Should an obese person who has a choice of being fit or not being fit be charged more for premiums, short simple answer is no. They have to know the consequences, and if they except a shorter more unhappy life then that's there choice. But also, I don't think I should be fitting the bill for someone's else's health insurance, but that's a different story.
Interesting first post.0 -
joshdegen1 wrote: »So I might be brining this thread back to life, but I actually have something to say about it. The vast majority of people are obese because they are misinformed or led down the wrong path about what to eat and what not to eat. Sugar conglomerates actually said that "fatty" foods is what causes wait gain because they are fat. A guy, who was funded by the sugar conglomerates, did a study and found that to be true, but it was debunked when real impartial studies were performed. But still the damage was done and the government backed the sugar companies and actually said sugar is better for you than fatty foods.
In one sense, they aren't/weren't necessarily wrong about that. People are so *kitten* fat because they are eating way too many calories.. and high fat foods are generally more calorie dense than most merely sugary foods.1 -
Thank goodness for the NHS!5
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joshdegen1 wrote: »The vast majority of people are obese because they are misinformed or led down the wrong path about what to eat and what not to eat.
No, the vast majority (as in all) people who are overweight or obese are so because they overeat for the amount of activity they do.
Think of it this way:
Is the average fat person really unaware that he or she should be eating a good many vegetables (and perhaps some fruit) per day? I think instead everyone knows that's true, and that's the advice from basically everywhere. Yet on average Americans do not.
Is the average person unaware of how to make up a healthy balanced meal (say a source of protein, ideally one that more often than not doesn't have a ton of extra calories from being a fatty cut or fried), some vegetables, and maybe a starch course (and more often than not it's best to have a whole food or whole grain source)? Again, I think this is kindergarten stuff, and it's also consistent with dietary advice.
Is the average person (or anyone) unaware that a diet made up primarily of, say, fast food burgers and fries, pizza, and sweets is not a great or healthy diet or that such foods should be consumed in moderation (as in smaller portions or less frequently)? Again, no, this is something I recall knowing as a small child.
If your diet is high cal and full of sweets and sugary soda or whatever, it is simply NOT because you are misled. It's because you knew that wasn't anyone's idea of a healthy diet but did not care. And that's fine, no need to care, your choice, but claiming BigSugar made you do it is just excuses, IMO, and not accurate at all.I think you'll see a huge decrease in the national obesity rates if the government stopped letting people buy energy drinks and whatever other junk food with their food stamps (I know they're not actually called food stamps. It's just a generic term).
Most fat people are not on SNAP (food stamps).
The studies indicate that what people buy on SNAP is pretty similar to what people not on SNAP buy.
So, no, there would not be a huge decrease in the national obesity rate for that reason. (Heck, I managed to get fat -- and later lose it -- without ever being on SNAP, aren't I fancy!)If they only let you buy Whole Foods instead of processed foods obesity rates would drop.
How is plain greek yogurt making me fat?Teaching younger people what to eat and how to eat and the benefits of eating right would also bring down obesity rates greatly. I took a nutrition elective in college and was blown away by the amount of knowledge I didn't know.
They do this, and I think it's good. Will it help? I doubt it, since I don't think the issue is lack of knowledge. (Also, we learn about history and gov't in school and the average American can't tell you what the various duties of the house and senate are, or even how many branches of gov't there is, and does not understand that the president can't just announce that something is a law, and probably cannot say what decade the Civil War occurred in).Should an obese person who has a choice of being fit or not being fit be charged more for premiums, short simple answer is no.
Why not? (My answer is that our health insurance isn't really based on an insurance model, so we should stop pretending it is, but if it IS based on an insurance model why WOULDN'T risk be taken into account? That's how insurance works.)2 -
joshdegen1 wrote: »...The vast majority of people are obese because they are misinformed or led down the wrong path about what to eat and what not to eat...
I disagree. Most people are fat because they freely choose the comfort, pleasure and instant gratification of overeating and being sedentary. It's easy and it feels good. Most fat people I know absolutely own up to this. As a society, we aren't as innocent and naive as you say. We've had it pounded into our heads for years now that we need to eat more vegetables and fewer donuts and that we need to get up off our butts and move more. And yet, we willfully choose not to. The sooner you own the truth, the better.6
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