Of refeeds and diet breaks
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NB, for anyone thinking of embarking on the high carb refeed, you really need to plan getting food in consistently throughout the day so you don't end up with a mega dinner like that. I did actually learn this lesson my first refeed weekend, but when I made the filling for dinner earlier I didn't factor in how much the potato was going to bulk up once I added cottage cheese. Because keeping fats lower plus all the carbs inevitably leads to higher volume, you just about need to plan on having 4-5 meals. Or lots of snacks.6
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »JoLightensUp wrote: »
...
- As counterintuitive as it is: the leaner you are, the less dieting you need to do to continue fat loss with optimal hormone response; therefore, instead of extended periods of refeeds, more frequent, small refeed periods tend to work better.
...
I've just snipped the quote above out of the synopsis by @anubis609 on page 6. Could someone explain this a bit more to me?
I don't quite understand this part: "the leaner you are, the less dieting you need to do to continue fat loss with optimal hormone response".
(Great thread, by the way. I'm really enjoying reading along!)
I would take that to mean that when you're lean, your hormone function will become less optimal more quickly. more frequent refeeds will benefit leaner people trying to lose fat as the refeeds will promote better hormone function.
Yep, that's my take on it too. You know how almost everyone says the last lbs are harder to lose? That's because your body fights back harder against weight loss, the metabolic adaptations happen quicker, especially if you are pushing for too big a deficit. So, lower deficit, more frequent refeeds and diet breaks to mitigate the adaptations = less dieting.
And this is especially true of women, who are essential to survival of the species and carrying life. It will fight ruddy damn hard to keep its fat reserves.4 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »NB, for anyone thinking of embarking on the high carb refeed, you really need to plan getting food in consistently throughout the day so you don't end up with a mega dinner like that. I did actually learn this lesson my first refeed weekend, but when I made the filling for dinner earlier I didn't factor in how much the potato was going to bulk up once I added cottage cheese. Because keeping fats lower plus all the carbs inevitably leads to higher volume, you just about need to plan on having 4-5 meals. Or lots of snacks.
I think this can also greatly depend on how filling you find carbs. I sort of ended up with starting my carby goodness yesterday and did indeed feel completely stuffed but that's because I mostly crammed it in over just 4 or 5 hours. But I woke up starving this morning so your body soon learns to enjoy all that food! And only 0.5lb scale spike, which is nice (though I'm patiently or not so patiently waiting on a whoosh so the scale and I aren't friends at the moment). It can also depend what starch you're eating. Nony mostly loads up on potatoes whereas I, having no issues with gluten, can load up on bread which is really really easy to eat. And cereal, cereal is a really great way to get the carbs in.3 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »JoLightensUp wrote: »
...
- As counterintuitive as it is: the leaner you are, the less dieting you need to do to continue fat loss with optimal hormone response; therefore, instead of extended periods of refeeds, more frequent, small refeed periods tend to work better.
...
I've just snipped the quote above out of the synopsis by @anubis609 on page 6. Could someone explain this a bit more to me?
I don't quite understand this part: "the leaner you are, the less dieting you need to do to continue fat loss with optimal hormone response".
(Great thread, by the way. I'm really enjoying reading along!)
I would take that to mean that when you're lean, your hormone function will become less optimal more quickly. more frequent refeeds will benefit leaner people trying to lose fat as the refeeds will promote better hormone function.
Yep, that's my take on it too. You know how almost everyone says the last lbs are harder to lose? That's because your body fights back harder against weight loss, the metabolic adaptations happen quicker, especially if you are pushing for too big a deficit. So, lower deficit, more frequent refeeds and diet breaks to mitigate the adaptations = less dieting.
This is extremely helpful... Especially when the first thought (even some advice?) Is to double down on the deficit.3 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »NB, for anyone thinking of embarking on the high carb refeed, you really need to plan getting food in consistently throughout the day so you don't end up with a mega dinner like that. I did actually learn this lesson my first refeed weekend, but when I made the filling for dinner earlier I didn't factor in how much the potato was going to bulk up once I added cottage cheese. Because keeping fats lower plus all the carbs inevitably leads to higher volume, you just about need to plan on having 4-5 meals. Or lots of snacks.
You don't know me!!! I can throw down, woman.
As I said, I'm somewhat of a volume eater. I pad everything with veg. You should have seen the frittata I had last night. There was a pound of vegetables (total, there was a variety in there) in it. Still, my meal was around 580 calories.4 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »JoLightensUp wrote: »
...
- As counterintuitive as it is: the leaner you are, the less dieting you need to do to continue fat loss with optimal hormone response; therefore, instead of extended periods of refeeds, more frequent, small refeed periods tend to work better.
...
I've just snipped the quote above out of the synopsis by @anubis609 on page 6. Could someone explain this a bit more to me?
I don't quite understand this part: "the leaner you are, the less dieting you need to do to continue fat loss with optimal hormone response".
(Great thread, by the way. I'm really enjoying reading along!)
I would take that to mean that when you're lean, your hormone function will become less optimal more quickly. more frequent refeeds will benefit leaner people trying to lose fat as the refeeds will promote better hormone function.
Yep, that's my take on it too. You know how almost everyone says the last lbs are harder to lose? That's because your body fights back harder against weight loss, the metabolic adaptations happen quicker, especially if you are pushing for too big a deficit. So, lower deficit, more frequent refeeds and diet breaks to mitigate the adaptations = less dieting.
This actually makes a lot of sense.2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »JoLightensUp wrote: »
...
- As counterintuitive as it is: the leaner you are, the less dieting you need to do to continue fat loss with optimal hormone response; therefore, instead of extended periods of refeeds, more frequent, small refeed periods tend to work better.
...
I've just snipped the quote above out of the synopsis by @anubis609 on page 6. Could someone explain this a bit more to me?
I don't quite understand this part: "the leaner you are, the less dieting you need to do to continue fat loss with optimal hormone response".
(Great thread, by the way. I'm really enjoying reading along!)
I would take that to mean that when you're lean, your hormone function will become less optimal more quickly. more frequent refeeds will benefit leaner people trying to lose fat as the refeeds will promote better hormone function.
Yep, that's my take on it too. You know how almost everyone says the last lbs are harder to lose? That's because your body fights back harder against weight loss, the metabolic adaptations happen quicker, especially if you are pushing for too big a deficit. So, lower deficit, more frequent refeeds and diet breaks to mitigate the adaptations = less dieting.
This is extremely helpful... Especially when the first thought (even some advice?) Is to double down on the deficit.
I finally listened to this video! Lyle even mentions the mistake of dieting harder.
Even after listening to this, I'm still wondering if refeeds apply to me. I have been dieting on and off for 5+ years and just now am at ~30% estimated body fat. But I stopped making progress and the deficit was just too low for me to adhere to. As a non competitor with the goal of "less fat" maybe I just don't have as much of a drive to stick to very low calories. My goal is honestly the "fat" (Lyle's words!) 24%.
Are there any podcasts or his articles that speak to an average Dieter? Not a competitor. I'd love to read/learn more.1 -
I just want to say this refeed has been absolutely amazing!! Im happy I read about it and decided to give it a try
Yall have some amazing info here! Emotionally, Its been wonderful to be able to enjoy more food and not feel deprived all the time. Physically, my workouts are more efficient, my energy is better, and Im losing weight faster than when I was eating less. Just wanted to say thank you for this thread!!! 13 -
Excessive carb fuelled workouts are the best. I'm glad you found us!3
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evilpoptart63 wrote: »I just want to say this refeed has been absolutely amazing!! Im happy I read about it and decided to give it a try Yall have some amazing info here! Emotionally, Its been wonderful to be able to enjoy more food and not feel deprived all the time. Physically, my workouts are more efficient, my energy is better, and Im losing weight faster than when I was eating less. Just wanted to say thank you for this thread!!!
That right there is what this is all about. So great to hear about your progress!3 -
evilpoptart63 wrote: »I just want to say this refeed has been absolutely amazing!! Im happy I read about it and decided to give it a try Yall have some amazing info here! Emotionally, Its been wonderful to be able to enjoy more food and not feel deprived all the time. Physically, my workouts are more efficient, my energy is better, and Im losing weight faster than when I was eating less. Just wanted to say thank you for this thread!!!
FTW! Good for you!2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »JoLightensUp wrote: »
...
- As counterintuitive as it is: the leaner you are, the less dieting you need to do to continue fat loss with optimal hormone response; therefore, instead of extended periods of refeeds, more frequent, small refeed periods tend to work better.
...
I've just snipped the quote above out of the synopsis by @anubis609 on page 6. Could someone explain this a bit more to me?
I don't quite understand this part: "the leaner you are, the less dieting you need to do to continue fat loss with optimal hormone response".
(Great thread, by the way. I'm really enjoying reading along!)
I would take that to mean that when you're lean, your hormone function will become less optimal more quickly. more frequent refeeds will benefit leaner people trying to lose fat as the refeeds will promote better hormone function.
Yep, that's my take on it too. You know how almost everyone says the last lbs are harder to lose? That's because your body fights back harder against weight loss, the metabolic adaptations happen quicker, especially if you are pushing for too big a deficit. So, lower deficit, more frequent refeeds and diet breaks to mitigate the adaptations = less dieting.
This is extremely helpful... Especially when the first thought (even some advice?) Is to double down on the deficit.
I finally listened to this video! Lyle even mentions the mistake of dieting harder.
Even after listening to this, I'm still wondering if refeeds apply to me. I have been dieting on and off for 5+ years and just now am at ~30% estimated body fat. But I stopped making progress and the deficit was just too low for me to adhere to. As a non competitor with the goal of "less fat" maybe I just don't have as much of a drive to stick to very low calories. My goal is honestly the "fat" (Lyle's words!) 24%.
Are there any podcasts or his articles that speak to an average Dieter? Not a competitor. I'd love to read/learn more.
Cruise on over to https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/ 3 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »JoLightensUp wrote: »
...
- As counterintuitive as it is: the leaner you are, the less dieting you need to do to continue fat loss with optimal hormone response; therefore, instead of extended periods of refeeds, more frequent, small refeed periods tend to work better.
...
I've just snipped the quote above out of the synopsis by @anubis609 on page 6. Could someone explain this a bit more to me?
I don't quite understand this part: "the leaner you are, the less dieting you need to do to continue fat loss with optimal hormone response".
(Great thread, by the way. I'm really enjoying reading along!)
I would take that to mean that when you're lean, your hormone function will become less optimal more quickly. more frequent refeeds will benefit leaner people trying to lose fat as the refeeds will promote better hormone function.
Yep, that's my take on it too. You know how almost everyone says the last lbs are harder to lose? That's because your body fights back harder against weight loss, the metabolic adaptations happen quicker, especially if you are pushing for too big a deficit. So, lower deficit, more frequent refeeds and diet breaks to mitigate the adaptations = less dieting.
This is extremely helpful... Especially when the first thought (even some advice?) Is to double down on the deficit.
I finally listened to this video! Lyle even mentions the mistake of dieting harder.
Even after listening to this, I'm still wondering if refeeds apply to me. I have been dieting on and off for 5+ years and just now am at ~30% estimated body fat. But I stopped making progress and the deficit was just too low for me to adhere to. As a non competitor with the goal of "less fat" maybe I just don't have as much of a drive to stick to very low calories. My goal is honestly the "fat" (Lyle's words!) 24%.
Are there any podcasts or his articles that speak to an average Dieter? Not a competitor. I'd love to read/learn more.
It's possible the diet break would be better for you as a starter, esp. since you've been dieting so long. It's two weeks, but more flexible to an extent because you just have to keep carbs above 100-150g a day, leaving more room for fat. That two weeks gives leptin and thyroid a chance to come up fully (or more, at least) and also 'settle in', as such. My take is that if you have had your nose to the grindstone for a while, do a diet break, then incorporate refeeds after that if/as necessary. I'm probably going overkill with the every week, cos also not lean, but meh. In no hurry (aka jeans fit
), can't hurt, might help.
And yes, head over to Bodyrecomposition.com for tons and tons of info!! Welcome to the rabbit hole
3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »NB, for anyone thinking of embarking on the high carb refeed, you really need to plan getting food in consistently throughout the day so you don't end up with a mega dinner like that. I did actually learn this lesson my first refeed weekend, but when I made the filling for dinner earlier I didn't factor in how much the potato was going to bulk up once I added cottage cheese. Because keeping fats lower plus all the carbs inevitably leads to higher volume, you just about need to plan on having 4-5 meals. Or lots of snacks.
You don't know me!!! I can throw down, woman.
As I said, I'm somewhat of a volume eater. I pad everything with veg. You should have seen the frittata I had last night. There was a pound of vegetables (total, there was a variety in there) in it. Still, my meal was around 580 calories.
Pfft, I totally know you
That was probably similar volume to my usual salad dinners, but way denser, and way higher cal. Like 850 or something. And I'm not at all used to carbs at volume. Actually when I made the filling, I looked at it, imagined it with pasta, and was like 'yeah, I used to eat that all the time' (totally ignoring the fact my pasta sauces never had beans in them). Also, carbs I find filling at the time, but not overly satiating, so I can easily go back for more an hour later. Hence, I just need to pace myself throughout the day 2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »JoLightensUp wrote: »
...
- As counterintuitive as it is: the leaner you are, the less dieting you need to do to continue fat loss with optimal hormone response; therefore, instead of extended periods of refeeds, more frequent, small refeed periods tend to work better.
...
I've just snipped the quote above out of the synopsis by @anubis609 on page 6. Could someone explain this a bit more to me?
I don't quite understand this part: "the leaner you are, the less dieting you need to do to continue fat loss with optimal hormone response".
(Great thread, by the way. I'm really enjoying reading along!)
I would take that to mean that when you're lean, your hormone function will become less optimal more quickly. more frequent refeeds will benefit leaner people trying to lose fat as the refeeds will promote better hormone function.
Yep, that's my take on it too. You know how almost everyone says the last lbs are harder to lose? That's because your body fights back harder against weight loss, the metabolic adaptations happen quicker, especially if you are pushing for too big a deficit. So, lower deficit, more frequent refeeds and diet breaks to mitigate the adaptations = less dieting.
This is extremely helpful... Especially when the first thought (even some advice?) Is to double down on the deficit.
I finally listened to this video! Lyle even mentions the mistake of dieting harder.
Even after listening to this, I'm still wondering if refeeds apply to me. I have been dieting on and off for 5+ years and just now am at ~30% estimated body fat. But I stopped making progress and the deficit was just too low for me to adhere to. As a non competitor with the goal of "less fat" maybe I just don't have as much of a drive to stick to very low calories. My goal is honestly the "fat" (Lyle's words!) 24%.
Are there any podcasts or his articles that speak to an average Dieter? Not a competitor. I'd love to read/learn more.
It's possible the diet break would be better for you as a starter, esp. since you've been dieting so long. It's two weeks, but more flexible to an extent because you just have to keep carbs above 100-150g a day, leaving more room for fat. That two weeks gives leptin and thyroid a chance to come up fully (or more, at least) and also 'settle in', as such. My take is that if you have had your nose to the grindstone for a while, do a diet break, then incorporate refeeds after that if/as necessary. I'm probably going overkill with the every week, cos also not lean, but meh. In no hurry (aka jeans fit), can't hurt, might help.
And yes, head over to Bodyrecomposition.com for tons and tons of info!! Welcome to the rabbit hole
Thanks @Nony_Mouse I actually did a whole month at maintenance in September. I will do another maintenance break here in November while I'm on vacation, and possibly through Thanksgiving.0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »JoLightensUp wrote: »
...
- As counterintuitive as it is: the leaner you are, the less dieting you need to do to continue fat loss with optimal hormone response; therefore, instead of extended periods of refeeds, more frequent, small refeed periods tend to work better.
...
I've just snipped the quote above out of the synopsis by @anubis609 on page 6. Could someone explain this a bit more to me?
I don't quite understand this part: "the leaner you are, the less dieting you need to do to continue fat loss with optimal hormone response".
(Great thread, by the way. I'm really enjoying reading along!)
I would take that to mean that when you're lean, your hormone function will become less optimal more quickly. more frequent refeeds will benefit leaner people trying to lose fat as the refeeds will promote better hormone function.
Yep, that's my take on it too. You know how almost everyone says the last lbs are harder to lose? That's because your body fights back harder against weight loss, the metabolic adaptations happen quicker, especially if you are pushing for too big a deficit. So, lower deficit, more frequent refeeds and diet breaks to mitigate the adaptations = less dieting.
This is extremely helpful... Especially when the first thought (even some advice?) Is to double down on the deficit.
I finally listened to this video! Lyle even mentions the mistake of dieting harder.
Even after listening to this, I'm still wondering if refeeds apply to me. I have been dieting on and off for 5+ years and just now am at ~30% estimated body fat. But I stopped making progress and the deficit was just too low for me to adhere to. As a non competitor with the goal of "less fat" maybe I just don't have as much of a drive to stick to very low calories. My goal is honestly the "fat" (Lyle's words!) 24%.
Are there any podcasts or his articles that speak to an average Dieter? Not a competitor. I'd love to read/learn more.
It's possible the diet break would be better for you as a starter, esp. since you've been dieting so long. It's two weeks, but more flexible to an extent because you just have to keep carbs above 100-150g a day, leaving more room for fat. That two weeks gives leptin and thyroid a chance to come up fully (or more, at least) and also 'settle in', as such. My take is that if you have had your nose to the grindstone for a while, do a diet break, then incorporate refeeds after that if/as necessary. I'm probably going overkill with the every week, cos also not lean, but meh. In no hurry (aka jeans fit), can't hurt, might help.
And yes, head over to Bodyrecomposition.com for tons and tons of info!! Welcome to the rabbit hole
Thanks @Nony_Mouse I actually did a whole month at maintenance in September. I will do another maintenance break here in November while I'm on vacation, and possibly through Thanksgiving.
You are good to go on refeeds then! Enjoy 3 -
I finally listened to this video! Lyle even mentions the mistake of dieting harder.
Even after listening to this, I'm still wondering if refeeds apply to me. I have been dieting on and off for 5+ years and just now am at ~30% estimated body fat. But I stopped making progress and the deficit was just too low for me to adhere to. As a non competitor with the goal of "less fat" maybe I just don't have as much of a drive to stick to very low calories. My goal is honestly the "fat" (Lyle's words!) 24%.
Are there any podcasts or his articles that speak to an average Dieter? Not a competitor. I'd love to read/learn more.
He also mentions in lifting articles the complete *kitten*-backwards method of going into a deficit and increasing workout intensity - which is usually what most people tend to do. Then they skip eating back exercise calories, so in essence taking a deficit from non-true sedentary activity level that is already probably too big, then making it bigger with exercise, then making it worse by doing more exercise.
When you have less fat to lose, the leptin issue will definitely be more of an effect when you take a deficit.
And I'm taking your terms to mean deficit too low meaning you were eating too little. So doesn't matter your goal not matching the majority of what he was discussing - you are getting to reasonable BF for a female, so the issues do apply taking a steep deficit.
Nothing says you have to attempt a fast weight loss and eat so little.
Nothing even says you need a deficit every day.
Pick your more active days to take a deficit on, eat at normal day eating levels. This is basically the essence of weekly avg TDEE method. Same amount every day eaten, some days big deficit, some days little.
Make the average deficit reasonable - some days can be small deficit, some days none.
And eating level at perhaps very easy to adhere to for you.9 -
@Luna3386 check out the Fat Loss for Women podcast that was posted a couple of pages back. Also the Abbey Orr ones which you can find on bodyrecomposition.com (just search 'abbey orr' and they'll come up), the second one in particular talks more about the average dieter, but the ones on women's fat loss in general, while often aimed more at competitors, have a ton of very useful info.2
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Been reading this thread and am finding that I have done much of it naturally over the course of my weightloss journey. Less organised of course as I did it on listening to my body and also maybe less frequent than was recommended here.
For me personally it was a way of dealing with it all or a psychological level. I was always conscious when doing this of what I was still eating, often when eating out taking care to eat at around maintenance with a few days a year to eat big time over (i.e. christmas). To me it was about sanity, but I am so glad to see what felt good for me actually has a base that agrees with it.6 -
I love that pretty much every day, new people pop into this thread
4
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