Of refeeds and diet breaks

Morning 4 of my diet break: weight is up again 187.0 lbs. Lowest weight was 185.0 lbs ten days ago. I figure even if I overshoot my maintenance calories by 500/day, that's only a pound of fat after a week.

Yesterday, I bought my first pair of smaller jeans since starting my weight loss journey. It was exciting when my prepregnancy jeans finally zipped, then buttoned, then slid off my hips without being unbuttoned or unzipped. My new jeans are two sizes smaller than those prepregnancy jeans and are skinny jeans. Even when I was much thinner, I never wore skinny jeans. Now after having been heavy and less heavy (I'm still overweight) I'm delighted to wear skinny jeans.

Boosted my the numerical success of buying smaller jeans, I'm feeling much more positive today about the diet break. (See above comment about only one pound of fat). Last night, I was getting slightly panicked about how I was going to feed myself and the baby at someone else's house. This morning, I packed enough puffs and fruit cups for the two of us, and I'm less nervous thinking about raiding my husband's aunt's pantry and fridge.

For those of you who have read and processed more about the refeed/diet break science - I think it was in Abbey Orr's podcast interview with Lyle (I think part 2), Lyle mentions that he doesn't believe in/recommend the two day refeeds for non-athletes. I could be wrong - I listened while on the treadmill and I don't always absorb 100% of information. I don't think it's harmful to continue doing it as a practice, but I'm not sure it's necessary for optimal results. I do plan on another diet break around Christmas.

Again with the overthinking.

eponine1984 wrote: »

And I don't think the message was that two day refeeds were detrimental or anything, he just wasn't as gung ho about them as he initially was. I just don't remember the logic or reasoning. I need @anubis609 to listen and explain it in a way I can understand it.

In the context of 2-day refeeds, it wasn't really necessary for those who weren't lean, and that's if looking at the term "refeed" to be the actual carb load of 4-5g of carbs/lb of bodyweight. The primary reason being that carrying more body fat meant that leptin and hormonal signaling could still tolerate a deficit.

What Lyle has always recommended but now emphasizes a bit more for people carrying more body fat is to just include a couple of days between deficit periods with free meals, or a couple days just at or just below maintenance. Refeeds were geared towards those who were starting to feel the deleterious effects of a deficit at lower body fat.

As for structured refeeds themselves, as it applies to lean athletes, 2-day carb load refeeds weren't quite enough to bring leptin up as fast as it should, so the leaner you were, the more days at maintenance you should have, *almost* to the point that you were barely dieting. Which is what seems counterintuitive.

Just as a refresher for the thread to anyone lurking and trying to get a grasp on wtf I'm even talking about:

The "dieting period" is an extended period of time where the average intake is at a deficit, and this can be anywhere from 2 - 12 weeks, presumably with a lower carb intake; with leaner individuals on the shorter end of the time frame, larger individuals on the longer end.

The "free meal" is just one meal in the day where you don't worry about eating diet food. It's not an excuse to go to a buffet. You just eat one meal that you enjoy; e.g. instead of egg whites, broccoli, and chicken, you can have eggs, potatoes, and beef.

The "refeed" is a short 1-2 day period of bumping up carbs while keeping fat relatively low to stimulate down-regulated hormone signaling back up to something manageable - it is not to be misinterpreted as a fat bulk period since you can absolutely ruin weeks of hard work in this short time frame.

The "diet break" is a 1-2 week period where you are not in a deficit and maintenance calories are calculated at the new lower body weight achieved after the dieting period. This is to keep the body from fighting back as you start feeling bogged down by being in a constant deficit, also to entrain maintenance eating habits for long term fat loss success.

To set up your diet: calculate the calories needed to be in a deficit > set protein to ~0.8-1.2g protein per lb of lbm > set fat / carbs to taste preference to fill in the rest of the calories. The better way of looking at a deficit is to eat as much as you can that allows for fat/weight loss. Larger individuals can handle a larger deficit, but chronic calorie slashing has a rebound effect. Be smart about the approach. A larger deficit needs a shorter dieting period.

To set up maintenance: calculate calories needed to be in maintenance > set protein to ~0.8-1.2g protein per lb of lbm > set fat / carbs to taste preference to fill in the rest of the calories. The initial introduction to maintenance from a deficit will result in a weight spike up, but it will settle back down to something reasonable and will hover around an average weight.

*Adequate protein intake is constant and by default the most important macro to focus on as a goal for any diet whether you're in a deficit/maintenance/surplus. Your entire body is made of various proteins. Do not neglect this.

*Carbs produce a much higher leptin response without causing fat gain if fat intake is low enough. If you are insulin resistant, diabetic, have PCOS/Hashimoto's/menopause, etc., carbs may cause unwanted blood sugar spikes or your body may poorly partition them. If that is the case, a lower carb intake might be beneficial. If you are strength training and/or an athlete, carbs may be timed around workouts to fuel intense workouts, as a rewarding consequence of strength training and consistent physical activity, your body is better capable of partitioning diet nutrients.

*Fat is essential to regulating hormones, especially the sex hormones. The absolute minimum needed to survive is just getting a few grams of DHA/EPA from omega-3. Optimal intake should probably be around 0.3g/lb of bodyweight as a low, and more if you prefer. Bear in mind that carbs and fat have an inverse relationship. The more fat you consume, the less carbs you might want to have since carbs get preference for oxidation and any dietary fat will be shuttled for storage.

ETA: I realized this turned into lectured synopsis, but it doesn't hurt to bring it back up once in a while

bmeadows380 wrote: »

how much does activity affect a person's weight? I"ve noticed that my weight will be up on the days following hard work. For instance: all week long, my scale has been reading 280.9 lbs. Yesterday evening, I loaded a pantry by myself into my truck, then came home and unloaded it (with help), and fifteen 40 lb bags of pellets along with a laundry sink, and all this after walking 2 stores for an hour each (I'm remodeling a house). After that, I loaded the pellets into the stove, and then painted for 2 hours or so, a ceiling and walls.

So yesterday, I had my usual 280.9 lbs. This morning? 282 lbs. And at the doctor's office, it read 289 lbs, but I was fully dressed with my shoes on and had had breakfast and drank a 16 oz coffee, so I think I can account for the doctor's scale.

Even though my activity wasn't strength training - I would think painting would be more aerobic, right? - would that account for some of this? Or am I falling for my own wishful thinking?

And I have serious doubts about the results I get from calorielab on how many calories I supposedly burned doing all this painting. 255-446 calories an hour for my 281 lb butt?

Depending on the intensity of activity, muscles and fluid will bounce around and it can affect weight either way. The only way to track activity as it plays with weight is if activity is consistent and you have a running average of what your weight is doing at that time.

For example: if you were extremely sedentary and just exercise / perform activity rarely, weight will bounce around and throw off your usual average. If you exercise consistently, your weight bouncing will stabilize in a range you can track consistently since activity is consistent.

Basically, you will have a "sedentary weight" average and an "active weight" average. These can be two different scale weights.

That said, scale weight is not the only metric that should be used when determining health. Mood, body measurements, your mood, outlook on life, energy levels, the mirror, etc., are all going to be factors in determining whether you feel better about including exercise.

And just to drive home the point of why activity is very much a positive factor to include regardless of diet, here's a recent tweet by one of the ISSN members and researchers on diet and activity, Jose Antonio: