Of refeeds and diet breaks
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Yes, I'm sure that there was water weight involved. Saturday was the first day of my cycle and while I'm pretty lucky that I don't bloat like crazy, I know hormones can do a lot. Just good to track trends over time.
A few years ago, I went paleo-ish for about four months. I didn't eat grains, but still ate dairy and I wasn't really counting carbs or macros, just skipping grains. From what I recall, my mood was better, my sleep and energy much improved. Ultimately, I found it unsustainable and any attempts I've made to try again have been half-hearted failures. I'm hoping that increasing my protein will have a similar effect without having to go grain-free.
We'll see. What is life if not a great big experiment?5 -
Still lurking and one by one reading/listening to posted links. I don't know how much physical use 2 day refeeds will be for me for two reasons: 1) I already eat fairly high carb every day and 2) I have never been a disciplined dieter LOL. I don't think I've ever stuck to a deficit for more than 2 or 3 weeks at a time without a weekend or even week-long (or longer)
unplanned slide. So I feel like I've been doing refeeds and diet breaks all along, just not planned and well-calibrated!
I'm a healthy weight, but on the high side for my frame, and while I've never attempted to measure it I'm sure my BF% is higher than it should be. I've been on and off a 250 cal deficit for about 2 years and have maintained my weight through that whole time, so obviously the slides have been an equal offset for the successful weeks.
Regardless, since first spotting this thread, I've been trying to stick to a slightly higher deficit (300-350 cals) M-F, and then eating maintenance on the weekends. And I think the psychological benefits for me will be well worth it, even if that's all I get out of it. In the past, when I tried to shoot for a little higher deficit to offset my bad days, I would end up snacking a lot and eating my way to maintenance calories, and then would get mad cravings for several days, and honestly I think it was guilt for not being "disciplined" enough to diet properly. But at least for the last couple of weeks, that hasn't happened. I am assuming it's because the extra food on the weekend isn't a fail, it's what I'm supposed to do, so no self-doubt. Maybe there is a physiological reason too, but I'm continuing to tweak my plan as I read more.
I got really good about taking morning walks and hitting 9000 steps over the summer, so my other big challenge will be to stay at this higher activity level now that it's getting hella cold out
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I haven't checked on this thread since my last Lyle post lol. I just read it and while it may not completely apply to everyone, something I did take from it is the natural potential of LBM gain for women in general that does apply to the blatant misinformation and inflated comments of "don't worry, that 5lb gain from the week is probably just muscle" I see in other threads complaining of natural bloating/menstrual cycle/weekend face-stuffing/partying, practically asking for pity.
On the other hand, it's also a very supportive article that lifting heavy will not result in being "bulky/blocky/manly" from a LBM standpoint in natural athletes. Women are supposed to have a higher body fat percentage. If one were to maximize their lbm potential and reduced body fat to non-sustainable low levels, let's use the physique competitor's bf of 10%, at 130 lbs for a female with absolute lbm of 117lbs, trying to cram down weight any lower is going to either a) reduce just pure lean mass with fat remaining the same or b) kill themselves.
I'll use this to segue into the other topic of perceived self-image and body dysmorphic disorder. I'm going to call it what it is because I acknowledge my disorder and most people I know personally who've developed an ED have some form of it which is a trigger. Don't like what we see? Slam calories to hell. Feeling good? Eat everything > scale jump/visual bloating > self-loathing calorie slash.. the cycle is self-feeding and perpetual. So, I understand intimately the very concept of self-image and why we put ourselves through actual trash.
Sure, no one else can tell us how to feel about ourselves, but we may actually have a very impossible set of standards in our minds that our bodies weren't made for. That's a reality that must also be accepted. There's some comfort in the fact that we have very determined goals, realistic or not, but stay within the realm of logic. If in the quest of striving to attain the unattainable you lose yourself to demotivation, then cut that goal down to something that actually is attainable, which doesn't necessarily have to be a physical measurement. Mental/psychological/emotional growth is completely valid as a measure of success.
Retain your sanity within the insanity. It's a weird contradiction that not many people can grasp, but if you know what I mean, then you know. Last extreme example: I know amputees who didn't let the lack of limbs get in the way of being able to perform everyday tasks or elevate themselves to reach inspirational heights of athleticism, but they all understood that they will use anything they can to help themselves. They work with what they have (or don't have in this case), and they use that drive to be absolutely happy in their own personal accomplishments.
If your body is absolutely fighting you to chill out, then use that signal to do just that. Take a step back outside of yourself, assess where you are and where you've come from, and what you've accomplished. If you can count more than zero accomplishments, you've done something great that only you've done for yourself. You can't ask roses to bloom more than once, so you wait for new buds to form and bloom. You can't ask your body to do more than it can, so take it as an opportunity to practice acceptance and patience. You can try again later.
*Not directed at anyone specific, but from the general tone, I just wanted to post this as something to take in for anyone dealing with issues. Be stronger than your problems.24 -
I honestly care less about my weight. It took me to get down to 173 to be a 32" waist. Ironically, even when i stopped counting and went to 180, i stayed that size. I was lifting, so its a bit of an unintentional bulk. And while i am still striving for abs, i dont care if its at 175 or 165. Interestingly, i suspect id rather like the 175. But i am male and very emotionally disconcennect with weight. Body composition is what matters to me and what i try to get many women to also believe in. Its also why i show the below often.
https://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/
I'm female and pretty disconnected with the actual number on the scale. I have a hate/love relationship with articles like these. I've been trying to lose weight since 2012, and trying to lose fat by barbell training and macros, etc for 2 years. I'm less fat but still more looking like the "before before" photos. Big fan of body comp but at this rate I doubt I will care once I get to my goal. Senior citizens usually have other concerns.
I'm 43 and not satisfied with how I look but will I ever be? I am pretty sure that there will always be something that could look better. Right now I am not satisfied with my thighs but am pretty happy with my arms, shoulders and back. I think my butt is just OK and could use some improving. But 4 years ago if I saw a picture of current me I am pretty sure I would be impressed.
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Still lurking and one by one reading/listening to posted links. I don't know how much physical use 2 day refeeds will be for me for two reasons: 1) I already eat fairly high carb every day and 2) I have never been a disciplined dieter LOL. I don't think I've ever stuck to a deficit for more than 2 or 3 weeks at a time without a weekend or even week-long (or longer) unplanned slide. So I feel like I've been doing refeeds and diet breaks all along, just not planned and well-calibrated!
I'm a healthy weight, but on the high side for my frame, and while I've never attempted to measure it I'm sure my BF% is higher than it should be. I've been on and off a 250 cal deficit for about 2 years and have maintained my weight through that whole time, so obviously the slides have been an equal offset for the successful weeks.
Regardless, since first spotting this thread, I've been trying to stick to a slightly higher deficit (300-350 cals) M-F, and then eating maintenance on the weekends. And I think the psychological benefits for me will be well worth it, even if that's all I get out of it. In the past, when I tried to shoot for a little higher deficit to offset my bad days, I would end up snacking a lot and eating my way to maintenance calories, and then would get mad cravings for several days, and honestly I think it was guilt for not being "disciplined" enough to diet properly. But at least for the last couple of weeks, that hasn't happened. I am assuming it's because the extra food on the weekend isn't a fail, it's what I'm supposed to do, so no self-doubt. Maybe there is a physiological reason too, but I'm continuing to tweak my plan as I read more.
I got really good about taking morning walks and hitting 9000 steps over the summer, so my other big challenge will be to stay at this higher activity level now that it's getting hella cold out
This is essentially me right now. First 8 months nailed it. Decline in mental health led to the same restrict maintain cycle. I feel the good news from that is that I know I can maintain and fairly painlessly with the extensive training I've now had. I too am finding it a bit easier the last few weeks, even if I fall into having my refeeds on the "wrong" days it's allowing me to recover my deficit more easily. Like you I have a habit of sliding into snacking.
I feel like the other bit of good news is that I have probably gained a little lean mass on top of my already pretty good amount and I can't be mad at that.3 -
I haven't checked on this thread since my last Lyle post lol. I just read it and while it may not completely apply to everyone, something I did take from it is the natural potential of LBM gain for women in general that does apply to the blatant misinformation and inflated comments of "don't worry, that 5lb gain from the week is probably just muscle" I see in other threads complaining of natural bloating/menstrual cycle/weekend face-stuffing/partying, practically asking for pity.
On the other hand, it's also a very supportive article that lifting heavy will not result in being "bulky/blocky/manly" from a LBM standpoint in natural athletes. Women are supposed to have a higher body fat percentage. If one were to maximize their lbm potential and reduced body fat to non-sustainable low levels, let's use the physique competitor's bf of 10%, at 130 lbs for a female with absolute lbm of 117lbs, trying to cram down weight any lower is going to either a) reduce just pure lean mass with fat remaining the same or b) kill themselves.
I'll use this to segue into the other topic of perceived self-image and body dysmorphic disorder. I'm going to call it what it is because I acknowledge my disorder and most people I know personally who've developed an ED have some form of it which is a trigger. Don't like what we see? Slam calories to hell. Feeling good? Eat everything > scale jump/visual bloating > self-loathing calorie slash.. the cycle is self-feeding and perpetual. So, I understand intimately the very concept of self-image and why we put ourselves through actual trash.
Sure, no one else can tell us how to feel about ourselves, but we may actually have a very impossible set of standards in our minds that our bodies weren't made for. That's a reality that must also be accepted. There's some comfort in the fact that we have very determined goals, realistic or not, but stay within the realm of logic. If in the quest of striving to attain the unattainable you lose yourself to demotivation, then cut that goal down to something that actually is attainable, which doesn't necessarily have to be a physical measurement. Mental/psychological/emotional growth is completely valid as a measure of success.
Retain your sanity within the insanity. It's a weird contradiction that not many people can grasp, but if you know what I mean, then you know. Last extreme example: I know amputees who didn't let the lack of limbs get in the way of being able to perform everyday tasks or elevate themselves to reach inspirational heights of athleticism, but they all understood that they will use anything they can to help themselves. They work with what they have (or don't have in this case), and they use that drive to be absolutely happy in their own personal accomplishments.
If your body is absolutely fighting you to chill out, then use that signal to do just that. Take a step back outside of yourself, assess where you are and where you've come from, and what you've accomplished. If you can count more than zero accomplishments, you've done something great that only you've done for yourself. You can't ask roses to bloom more than once, so you wait for new buds to form and bloom. You can't ask your body to do more than it can, so take it as an opportunity to practice acceptance and patience. You can try again later.
*Not directed at anyone specific, but from the general tone, I just wanted to post this as something to take in for anyone dealing with issues. Be stronger than your problems.
This is essentially what I march around here saying. It's one of those pervasive dieting/working out myths, that we just pack on the muscle whilst only hammering the cardio machines. Never mind the weird logic that you can simultaneously eat in a deficit, maintain weight and build muscle when you don't have the calories. My analogy is trying to build a house without the bricks.3 -
You got it @VintageFeline. And most everyone who is new to dieting is going to head straight for the treadmill/elliptical/bike while following the latest "lose 40 lbs in 4 seconds" eating plan of calorie/macro restriction because if they knew better, well.. they probably wouldn't be asking much of the typical advice lol1
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I just read @anubis609 post about "the 5lb gain" and it reminded me about the BS I've heard and been told over the years:
If you gain the week you start lifting it's all muscle. No. Even after trying to explain glycogen stores and intracellular water, no it's instantly pounds of muscle. I want that training program or those pharmaceuticals! I've even been asked how to get rid of glycogen so it can stop showing up on the scale. No. Just. No. But the feel good/ eat, feel bad/ restrict cycle has been a feature of my life for some time. I'm trying to acknowledge how much progress I've already made and appreciate where I am now.
But something I never took into account in my 3 lb creeping gain, because I am so scale conscious, is what if it is muscle in my case? My clothes are looser on the waist and my upper body more defined.
The diet break is going to end for me tomorrow. I feel better. My runs got faster. I just have to watch for shovel it in survival eating, because years end is usually stressful for me. Not holiday related, but every year an unusual chain of tragic and unfortunate events (deaths, layoffs, legal and financial issues) happens in my life. And it's already starting up
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Women can only gain 0.5-1lb of muscle per month if genetically blessed and with perfect training. You may have had some rearranging as it were, a lot of people report this happening for a time immediately after switching to maintenance and far more than would happen with the above perfect training.1
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I am soooo behind on calorie burning today because, ha! I had to cat wrangle (he is fine, probably just sore and feeling punk, but couldn't take the chance he'd blocked again). So now I will get changed back into my workout gear and lift things. 6
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If your body is absolutely fighting you to chill out, then use that signal to do just that. Take a step back outside of yourself, assess where you are and where you've come from, and what you've accomplished. If you can count more than zero accomplishments, you've done something great that only you've done for yourself. You can't ask roses to bloom more than once, so you wait for new buds to form and bloom. You can't ask your body to do more than it can, so take it as an opportunity to practice acceptance and patience. You can try again later.
*Not directed at anyone specific, but from the general tone, I just wanted to post this as something to take in for anyone dealing with issues. Be stronger than your problems.
This is incredible! I'm going to print it out and hang it up as a reminder.I'm 43 and not satisfied with how I look but will I ever be? I am pretty sure that there will always be something that could look better. Right now I am not satisfied with my thighs but am pretty happy with my arms, shoulders and back. I think my butt is just OK and could use some improving. But 4 years ago if I saw a picture of current me I am pretty sure I would be impressed.
Likewise, an amazing thought. I almost can't even remember that part of my life, at least honestly or realistically, but I do know I would be impressed with myself. Or at least impressed I didn't give up on myself.
Thanks @anubis609 and @bioklutz4 -
I am definitely a work in progress, but I am also definitely impressed with myself. This is me, Jan 2015, and today:
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newheavensearth wrote: »I just read @anubis609 post about "the 5lb gain" and it reminded me about the BS I've heard and been told over the years:
If you gain the week you start lifting it's all muscle. No. Even after trying to explain glycogen stores and intracellular water, no it's instantly pounds of muscle. I want that training program or those pharmaceuticals! I've even been asked how to get rid of glycogen so it can stop showing up on the scale. No. Just. No. But the feel good/ eat, feel bad/ restrict cycle has been a feature of my life for some time. I'm trying to acknowledge how much progress I've already made and appreciate where I am now.
But something I never took into account in my 3 lb creeping gain, because I am so scale conscious, is what if it is muscle in my case? My clothes are looser on the waist and my upper body more defined.
The diet break is going to end for me tomorrow. I feel better. My runs got faster. I just have to watch for shovel it in survival eating, because years end is usually stressful for me. Not holiday related, but every year an unusual chain of tragic and unfortunate events (deaths, layoffs, legal and financial issues) happens in my life. And it's already starting up
This reminded me the fact that the amount of glycogen the muscles want to hold are also based on training, besides having glucose available to store in the first place.
So while not literally muscle cells/fibers increasing, part of the aspect of them getting stronger is having the needed available energy source right there, along with attached water.
This is always the conundrum when someone starts a diet and starts exercise from general sedentary lifestyle.
Amount of glucose stored goes down, and usually sodium eaten goes done merely from logging or because of purposely restricting - big water weight drop first week.
Then after few workout sessions body tries to store more glucose in muscles for reaction to workouts.
May not get them though with steep deficit, but when they do, bam.
And then that weekend eating some dessert - really bam, they get refilled.
Or as discussed here - purposeful diet break eating more in general, or specific to carbs - really bam.
So while that is muscles getting heavier, and bigger, with water, weight could hold steady or drop - especially if at same time stress related water drops.
Good job on progress - do you plan on another break during that stressful time?1 -
Most likely yes. Probably just for sanity 's sake.0
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I can confirm that there definitely is such a thing as too much fibre. I found this out at 2am this morning. So now I need to rethink lunch (I'd added chilli beans to my baked potato, cottage cheese and ratatouille). Not enough ratatouille left to just have that, and I really can't be bothered going to get the ingredients and making another batch. Hmmm. Loathe to change dinner, other than scaling back a little on veggie toppings, but that pizza base has 22g of fibre alone, cos sprouted seeds.
Otherwise, Refeed Round 5 is going swimmingly. I may haul butt up the 3 hour track I did the other week this afternoon. Planning a longer hike with my hiking buddy for next weekend, so gotta keep that hill fitness up.11 -
This refeed is great.. its my sons 2nd bday, so i have refeeded with ice cream cake and a pumpkin muffin!15
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This refeed is great.. its my sons 2nd bday, so i have refeeded with ice cream cake and a pumpkin muffin!
Happy birthday, Junior Lemon!!
I confess I keep looking at my side by side photo and going 'holy hell!'. Like, obviously I know I've lost a reasonable whack of weight, and I did some progress pics as I went that first year, but I never did a final one when I got to goal in 2015 (possibly because I didn't quite get to goal, and then hovered a little above for maintenance last year, before regaining some), then also didn't do one when I got back there earlier this year (then regained some with winter and knee injury and eating more, not less).
Anyway, for anyone who hasn't done a side by side between starting and current, I highly recommend it. And keeping up with the progress photos as you go. I'm really glad I took that photo my first day (even though I don't look at all happy about it in the pic!), and still kicking myself for not doing measurements until I was almost a month in.9 -
I don't have any pictures at my highest weight. I wish I did.3
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I don't have any at my very highest but I do from when I started seriously tracking. On my profile in fact. I'm still in denial that I looked at as big as I was, heh.3
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »This refeed is great.. its my sons 2nd bday, so i have refeeded with ice cream cake and a pumpkin muffin!
Happy birthday, Junior Lemon!!
I confess I keep looking at my side by side photo and going 'holy hell!'. Like, obviously I know I've lost a reasonable whack of weight, and I did some progress pics as I went that first year, but I never did a final one when I got to goal in 2015 (possibly because I didn't quite get to goal, and then hovered a little above for maintenance last year, before regaining some), then also didn't do one when I got back there earlier this year (then regained some with winter and knee injury and eating more, not less).
Anyway, for anyone who hasn't done a side by side between starting and current, I highly recommend it. And keeping up with the progress photos as you go. I'm really glad I took that photo my first day (even though I don't look at all happy about it in the pic!), and still kicking myself for not doing measurements until I was almost a month in.
I wish I had but too late 25lbs later!2
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