Why I left Weight Watchers new "Freestyle" Program
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My problem with ww was I got 27 points and was just hungry all the time. I couldn't stick to it, The leaders response was to fill up on more veggies which was not satisfying to me. I crave sugar and sugar is really restricted on the plan. A piece of cake is 24 points1
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carterbrent wrote: »My problem with ww was I got 27 points and was just hungry all the time. I couldn't stick to it, The leaders response was to fill up on more veggies which was not satisfying to me. I crave sugar and sugar is really restricted on the plan. A piece of cake is 24 points
Depends on the size of the cake. A 40 to 50 gram size slice of cake was only 7 or 8 points. 24 points was for a multitier, frosting loaded bakery sized slice.3 -
Ah, the "F" word... (a.k.a. Freestyle)
I was doing wonderfully well on Smart Points. Blue dot every day, no need for weekly points, not hungry, hitting calcium/protein targets, and losing weight steadily. Then Freestyle happened. All of the sudden, I was hungry (I somehow managed to lose 10 daily points, not just 7 like everyone else), I didn't have enough points for dairy so my calcium/protein numbers took a major nosedive, I ran out of weekly points well before the week was over. And I didn't lose weight!
I tried to voice some of my concerns, but it was made pretty clear that I was just being too picky, too resistant, too stubborn, etc. In other words, I was being too negative. They didn't want to hear any of that.
So while I'm happy for the people Freestyle works for, I wish they'd stop pretending it's the greatest thing ever conceived. It might be the most-awesomest-thing-EVAH for some people, but not for everyone, and certainly not for me.
So now I'm back to MFP. Not only does it hold me accountable for the calories I consume, but it also makes me aware that calories don't tell the whole story. Nutrients matter too!
Not to mention MFP is free. And in this case, free is good.
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Oh and this week on Freestyle I lost 2lbs and I ate all my WP (weekly points)
Why? Because WW is not only about counting points it's about much more!
It gives you tools that you still have to implement but hey! Whatever WORKS right?12 -
Different things work for different people. I like the structure of WW (I learned portion control and healthy eating) and the calorie control of MFP (because you can gain weight on overeating healthy foods). Both are flexible but require sensibility. Like the cake example. Yes you can have cake every day if you have the calories, points, whatever. Does it mean you should? I personally have no interest in continuing a behavior that made me obese. So I kicked the daily Little Debbie habit to the curb. YMMV.2
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I think WW is a good onboarding system. I joined in July, when they had a special that included telephone coaching. I got a lot out of checking in with someone, kept me focused and accountable. However, the long term price I just thought was too high when the program was focused on doing what I was already doing, namely eating more lean protein fruits and vegetables. That's just me; I can totally see how the simplified approach of points can keep people on track more easily than carbs or macro counting. Like everybody said, whatever works for you.
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Download the iTrackBites app. You can track the Smart Points or previous Weight Watchers plans on the app.2
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I had a friend who was over 400 lbs and joined weight watchers. with the points this person was eating under 900 calories. stopped losing weight and weight watchers told this person their body was in starvation mode and to lower the points a little. for goodness sake that is way too little calories even for someone who doesnt have a lot of weight to lose. so now they are telling people higher calorie foods are no points? heck 5-6 oz of turkey is like what 300 calories or a little more?eggs at 74 calories for an large egg? give or take the weight of course. but if you ate nothing but these 0 point foods and as much as you wanted a person could enter into surplus calories territory easily. I dont see this lasting long.
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I just tried to cancel but they are going to charge me a cancellation fee... I’m going to call the # and try to argue that. I signed up for the previous program, not this one. I don’t think I should be penalized18
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I just tried to cancel but they are going to charge me a cancellation fee... I’m going to call the # and try to argue that. I signed up for the previous program, not this one. I don’t think I should be penalized
If you have trouble with them, then dispute the charge via the credit card company.4 -
Depending on where you are, that isn't always possible. I worked in a call center for a Canadian credit card company for 13 years and we were not able to dispute "goods and services" issues. Basically, if there was a charge that was
- never authorized
- for goods/service that were returned for credit and the customer had proof (credit note, etc) but the credit wasn't on the statement
- a duplicate billing
- not recognized
- Merchant went bankrupt without fulfilling customer's order
Yes, we could dispute. But if it was a case of- dissatisfaction with goods or services received
- attempt to get a credit on a non-refundable purchase or deposit
- attempt to cancel a service contract by disputing with the credit card company rather than the merchant
- merchant fraud/bait-and-switch/false advertising
We couldn't get involved. On the latter list, that is not to state that the customer had no legal recourse, only that they had no recourse with us.
I've been out of the industry for six years, now. Laws could have changed. But that's how it was when I was in the field.3 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »Depending on where you are, that isn't always possible. I worked in a call center for a Canadian credit card company for 13 years and we were not able to dispute "goods and services" issues. Basically, if there was a charge that was
- never authorized
- for goods/service that were returned for credit and the customer had proof (credit note, etc) but the credit wasn't on the statement
- a duplicate billing
- not recognized
- Merchant went bankrupt without fulfilling customer's order
Yes, we could dispute. But if it was a case of- dissatisfaction with goods or services received
- attempt to get a credit on a non-refundable purchase or deposit
- attempt to cancel a service contract by disputing with the credit card company rather than the merchant
- merchant fraud/bait-and-switch/false advertising
We couldn't get involved. On the latter list, that is not to state that the customer had no legal recourse, only that they had no recourse with us.
I've been out of the industry for six years, now. Laws could have changed. But that's how it was when I was in the field.
A case can be made for product not as described under the last item.
Just as if I ordered a RCA and was delivered a Samsung, or Ordered a 4K and received a 1080I.1 -
I left WW after Flex Points and have never looked back.... currently watching my father struggle with losing on WW as he is gorging himself on "Zero Point" items. He's now making huge bowls of "nice cream" using a Yonanna machine, all the people at his meetings went on and on about zero point dessert and now he's stalled. Oh well :-/3
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stanmann571 wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »Depending on where you are, that isn't always possible. I worked in a call center for a Canadian credit card company for 13 years and we were not able to dispute "goods and services" issues. Basically, if there was a charge that was
- never authorized
- for goods/service that were returned for credit and the customer had proof (credit note, etc) but the credit wasn't on the statement
- a duplicate billing
- not recognized
- Merchant went bankrupt without fulfilling customer's order
Yes, we could dispute. But if it was a case of- dissatisfaction with goods or services received
- attempt to get a credit on a non-refundable purchase or deposit
- attempt to cancel a service contract by disputing with the credit card company rather than the merchant
- merchant fraud/bait-and-switch/false advertising
We couldn't get involved. On the latter list, that is not to state that the customer had no legal recourse, only that they had no recourse with us.
I've been out of the industry for six years, now. Laws could have changed. But that's how it was when I was in the field.
A case can be made for product not as described under the last item.
Just as if I ordered a RCA and was delivered a Samsung, or Ordered a 4K and received a 1080I.
True enough. Unless (and I'm speculating, based on companies having legal departments and CYA clauses), there was something in the agreement about how "In the event that the item is not available, we reserve the right to substitute an alternative product of similar quality/value". Or in the case of WW, "program guidelines may be subject to change without notice." Again, I'm not saying that the customer doesn't have a valid case, only that it couldn't be taken up with the credit card company. Consumer protection agencies might be better options.3 -
I have tried WW once, years ago, I don’t even remember what plan they were following then. I joined because the docs were offering a 12 week referral to WW, I specifically remember going to the 2nd meeting and the consultant/team leader making a referral to Slimming World and saying how WW teaches you about control, portion sizes, etc and that SW says you can eat unlimited amounts of certain foods (oranges, apples etc) but they don’t teach you that everything has a calorie value. This has stuck with me for however long, but reading all your comments it seems WW May have forgotten it with their new program! I had been going to join WW in the NY but now thinking perhaps I should just use MFP...3
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I just tried to cancel but they are going to charge me a cancellation fee... I’m going to call the # and try to argue that. I signed up for the previous program, not this one. I don’t think I should be penalized
You can still track using Smart Points with the new system. I'm not sure what your daily points limit was under Smart Points, but for me, doing this trick got my to 28 daily points (which is only 2 under the 30 limit I had with Smart Points).
Go to Settings, then go to Food Settings. Under the "Are You Nursing", select "I'm not exclusively nursing" and voila, you get more points! You will need to manually track your weeklies and add back points for the stuff they recently changed to zero points -- you can use the food calculator to manually add those items -- but this trick gets you most of the way there.
I tried Freestyle for 2 weeks and felt boated all the time (I'm vegan and was filling up on beans) and gained weight. I absolutely hated it. I'm much happier back on the program that helped me lose 10 pounds in two months. Good luck!4 -
Another overheard gem - I was at a salad bar filling up a container for lunch. 2 ladies going around together and one of them literally had 10 eggs in her container. Yes, 10 hard boiled eggs. This was on top of a little lettuce, some carrot, a couple of tomatoes and onion. And then she added a couple scoops of chickpeas, some avocado and packet of Ken's ranch. The other lady was looking at her like "whatttttt??" and she calmly said, "the eggs and veggies and beans are all 0 points."
Perhaps it was all she ate that day....5 -
Ten eggs????? Yeesh. I typically have three at a sitting. One time, to break a 25-hour fast, I had four. But ten???? Maybe she's going to box up the leftovers for later?0
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I switched from Weight Watchers to MyFitnesspal because I was having a hard time dropping weight using the point system. The "Zero point" food system worked fine for me when I was in my forties, but did not work well as I moved into my 50s and my metabolism slowed. I am finally losing weight again using MyFitnessPal because I am tracking my calories. I love veggies and fruits and it was easy for me to abuse the system by overeating my "free foods" that I did not have to track. No system is the magic answer for everyone. You have to learn to make the system work for your own body and needs. Good luck--don't feel guilty that you left WW.4
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I recently read a post on WW Connect forum from one of the more "popular kids" that the biggest problem he's having with Freestyle is that it's feeding into his tendency to binge. He's fallen back into the habit of planning binges, this time by either binging on 0 point foods or by eating 0 point foods and then reserving points for the binges. Members are supposed to include a certain amount of points in their day. The protein hoarding I'm seeing above sounds like another example of gaming the system to justify binge eating behavior. I don't think WW thought about the segment of members with this issue when they developed this plan. Rationalizing 10 egg salads, eating whole chickens, unlimited Yonanas? There's a bigger issue at hand.11
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estherdragonbat wrote: »Ten eggs????? Yeesh. I typically have three at a sitting. One time, to break a 25-hour fast, I had four. But ten???? Maybe she's going to box up the leftovers for later?
I'm hoping the same. I can't imagine eating 10 in a sitting. But it's the mentality behind it - I can eat all of this because it's "free." In reality, that salad probably had over 1000 cals.6 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »Ten eggs????? Yeesh. I typically have three at a sitting. One time, to break a 25-hour fast, I had four. But ten???? Maybe she's going to box up the leftovers for later?
I'm hoping the same. I can't imagine eating 10 in a sitting. But it's the mentality behind it - I can eat all of this because it's "free." In reality, that salad probably had over 1000 cals.
I saw a weight watchers commercial today for this program, and I will admit it was very misleading. They actually even said there were 200 zero point foods, and you don't have to track. I really would love to see the actual program to see if there are any guidelines at all.
However, many of the examples in this thread are not really WWs fault IMO. Who honestly believes you can eat as much of these foods with no consequences. I did WW in 2012, and I knew that zero point fruits didn't mean a free for all. When someone starts a diet, there has to be some common sense. And if you don't have much nutrition knowledge, it is on you to do your own research. I can't blame WW because someone used their program to rationalize binging.5 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »Ten eggs????? Yeesh. I typically have three at a sitting. One time, to break a 25-hour fast, I had four. But ten???? Maybe she's going to box up the leftovers for later?
I'm hoping the same. I can't imagine eating 10 in a sitting. But it's the mentality behind it - I can eat all of this because it's "free." In reality, that salad probably had over 1000 cals.
I saw a weight watchers commercial today for this program, and I will admit it was very misleading. They actually even said there were 200 zero point foods, and you don't have to track. I really would love to see the actual program to see if there are any guidelines at all.
However, many of the examples in this thread are not really WWs fault IMO. Who honestly believes you can eat as much of these foods with no consequences. I did WW in 2012, and I knew that zero point fruits didn't mean a free for all. When someone starts a diet, there has to be some common sense. And if you don't have much nutrition knowledge, it is on you to do your own research. I can't blame WW because someone used their program to rationalize binging.
Thing is, it's easy to overeat zero point foods even without explicit binging. A cup of chickpeas looks pathetically small, but has nearly 300 calories. Yesterday for breakfast I had 200 grams of chickpeas (which I assure you is not a big amount), 2 eggs, a little bit of buckwheat, a tomato, and a banana. Other than the buckwheat (which was about 50 calories), everything was zero weight watchers points. Total calories for a meal that isn't even that big: 660. That's about half the calories for someone who is smaller and more sedentary than me and I didn't even go overboard. A person with common sense would not consider it anything out of the ordinary until they see the calories. You don't need to go for 5 bananas and 10 eggs for this method to be less viable. That's my issue with this program, at least for me. I need to consciously decide to have nearly 700 calories for breakfast to make it work within my calories. It can't be a spontaneous occurrence that I can be relaxed about just because it's "healthy".17 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »Ten eggs????? Yeesh. I typically have three at a sitting. One time, to break a 25-hour fast, I had four. But ten???? Maybe she's going to box up the leftovers for later?
I'm hoping the same. I can't imagine eating 10 in a sitting. But it's the mentality behind it - I can eat all of this because it's "free." In reality, that salad probably had over 1000 cals.
I saw a weight watchers commercial today for this program, and I will admit it was very misleading. They actually even said there were 200 zero point foods, and you don't have to track. I really would love to see the actual program to see if there are any guidelines at all.
However, many of the examples in this thread are not really WWs fault IMO. Who honestly believes you can eat as much of these foods with no consequences. I did WW in 2012, and I knew that zero point fruits didn't mean a free for all. When someone starts a diet, there has to be some common sense. And if you don't have much nutrition knowledge, it is on you to do your own research. I can't blame WW because someone used their program to rationalize binging.
Yeah, see, I think that's part of what Weight Watchers should be providing. That's what you pay for. Or at least it used to be (I was a leader once upon a long time ago).17 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »Ten eggs????? Yeesh. I typically have three at a sitting. One time, to break a 25-hour fast, I had four. But ten???? Maybe she's going to box up the leftovers for later?
I'm hoping the same. I can't imagine eating 10 in a sitting. But it's the mentality behind it - I can eat all of this because it's "free." In reality, that salad probably had over 1000 cals.
I saw a weight watchers commercial today for this program, and I will admit it was very misleading. They actually even said there were 200 zero point foods, and you don't have to track. I really would love to see the actual program to see if there are any guidelines at all.
However, many of the examples in this thread are not really WWs fault IMO. Who honestly believes you can eat as much of these foods with no consequences. I did WW in 2012, and I knew that zero point fruits didn't mean a free for all. When someone starts a diet, there has to be some common sense. And if you don't have much nutrition knowledge, it is on you to do your own research. I can't blame WW because someone used their program to rationalize binging.
Thing is, it's easy to overeat zero point foods even without explicit binging. A cup of chickpeas looks pathetically small, but has nearly 300 calories. Yesterday for breakfast I had 200 grams of chickpeas (which I assure you is not a big amount), 2 eggs, a little bit of buckwheat, a tomato, and a banana. Other than the buckwheat (which was about 50 calories), everything was zero weight watchers points. Total calories for a meal that isn't even that big: 660. That's about half the calories for someone who is smaller and more sedentary than me and I didn't even go overboard. A person with common sense would not consider it anything out of the ordinary until they see the calories. You don't need to go for 5 bananas and 10 eggs for this method to be less viable. That's my issue with this program, at least for me. I need to consciously decide to have nearly 700 calories for breakfast to make it work within my calories. It can't be a spontaneous occurrence that I can be relaxed about just because it's "healthy".
Yeah, I realize not everyone likes beans but I like them a lot. If I ate what seemed (pre- MFP) like a normal and satisfying portion to me, it would be really difficult for me to lose weight. That doesn't include any binges. Add fruit on top of that and I know this program wouldn't work for me.0 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »Ten eggs????? Yeesh. I typically have three at a sitting. One time, to break a 25-hour fast, I had four. But ten???? Maybe she's going to box up the leftovers for later?
I'm hoping the same. I can't imagine eating 10 in a sitting. But it's the mentality behind it - I can eat all of this because it's "free." In reality, that salad probably had over 1000 cals.
I saw a weight watchers commercial today for this program, and I will admit it was very misleading. They actually even said there were 200 zero point foods, and you don't have to track. I really would love to see the actual program to see if there are any guidelines at all.
However, many of the examples in this thread are not really WWs fault IMO. Who honestly believes you can eat as much of these foods with no consequences. I did WW in 2012, and I knew that zero point fruits didn't mean a free for all. When someone starts a diet, there has to be some common sense. And if you don't have much nutrition knowledge, it is on you to do your own research. I can't blame WW because someone used their program to rationalize binging.
Not blaming WW at all for someone else's issues. I'm a Lifetime member and I get reamed for my insistence on still weighing, measuring, and tracking all the zero point foods. I know for myself that my portion sizes will grow over time, that I will stop tracking all together over time without that routine (another problem being reported on Connect), and seconds will happen without limits. Because I know me. That's not WW fault it's mine. But I still think WW should still encourage reasonable portion sizes like they used to.7 -
I left it a while ago, I loved it 10 years ago but what are the200 foods they now have added? Also, why not just do the smart points program since you have the info? I didn't like smart points because with the old program I could look at a food and tell the points plus too many points for carbohydrates.
Hi There -
You can't really do any old programs once they change it because everything is done on the WW app now. I guess I could still do it and be a -7 everyday but that would mess with my head seeing the - everyday. WW has changed so much if you haven't been on it in 10 years you would be in for a major change going back. The 200 food list I am sure you can google it "zero point food list" and find an image.
Well you probably COULD do it if you had an old points calculator sitting around and just logged manually on a piece of paper. I used to do WW with the FlexPoints "off the grid" back in the day - I joined, stayed with it for several weeks but then just couldn't afford it anymore. I did it a lot on my own using the old slider points calculator.
There is no need to pay for something like WW when you have MFP and similar apps for free - I didn't enjoy the meetings all that much after a while - initially the first several weeks were great with helpful tips and info - but after a while it was the same old same old.
If you would like to friend me go ahead. I have had many starts and stops and keep coming back to MFP.
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »Ten eggs????? Yeesh. I typically have three at a sitting. One time, to break a 25-hour fast, I had four. But ten???? Maybe she's going to box up the leftovers for later?
I'm hoping the same. I can't imagine eating 10 in a sitting. But it's the mentality behind it - I can eat all of this because it's "free." In reality, that salad probably had over 1000 cals.
I saw a weight watchers commercial today for this program, and I will admit it was very misleading. They actually even said there were 200 zero point foods, and you don't have to track. I really would love to see the actual program to see if there are any guidelines at all.
However, many of the examples in this thread are not really WWs fault IMO. Who honestly believes you can eat as much of these foods with no consequences. I did WW in 2012, and I knew that zero point fruits didn't mean a free for all. When someone starts a diet, there has to be some common sense. And if you don't have much nutrition knowledge, it is on you to do your own research. I can't blame WW because someone used their program to rationalize binging.
Yeah, see, I think that's part of what Weight Watchers should be providing. That's what you pay for. Or at least it used to be (I was a leader once upon a long time ago).
I don't disagree with this at all. That is why I would like to see the actual program. When I was on WW, I had pretty good leaders who set limits on our zero point foods. Apparently not all leaders did this. But my main point is for those eating very large amounts of zero point foods. There has to be common sense. The same applies on mfp.0
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