The odds of long-term weight loss success
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I believe above you referred to your weight loss phase as "torture". I find that really sad. It's taken me about 8 years to take off about 65 lbs (in smaller chunks at a modest calorie deficit) and I still have about 40 to go. I have enough struggles in life without torturing myself, and I've gotten a lot of maintenance practice in as well. I know not everyone wants to wait that long, and that's fine too, but hopefully there's a happy medium to be had there (emphasis on the *happy* part).
Well, I’m with you on it was sad but that is because it is too few calories (even my estimated maintenance is too few) to keep me from being hungry most of the time. Until I found the 5:2 intermittent fasting which allows me to eat a satisfying amount of calories on the five days by severely restricting the other two days I was miserable, yes. But the weight loss was worth it. The chronic pain the extra weight had me in is almost completely absent now. My sleep is so much better. Etc etc. Taking a long time was a much worse option, and one I would have abandoned as not worth it.
But, I don’t see why one size should fit all. I’m glad your way works for you! I’m glad I found 5:2 IF so that my way ( which I feel was necessary for me) became bearable. I don’t fit well with MFP diet recommendations norms. So what? It’s all good in the end.7 -
What's long term, and what's a significant amount. Until those terms are defined you can't have a study.1
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purpleannex wrote: »What's long term, and what's a significant amount. Until those terms are defined you can't have a study.
The study links in my original post spelled out at least 10% of a person's body weight with maintenance of at least a year (though to me, "long-term" maintenance would mean something more along the lines of at least 3 years), but the discussion in the thread has pointed out these studies are actually pretty unscientific in nature. On the National Weight Loss Registry (again, these people come to the registry themselves, so it's not representative), the average weight loss reported is 66 lbs for an average length of 5.5 years.2 -
I believe above you referred to your weight loss phase as "torture". I find that really sad. It's taken me about 8 years to take off about 65 lbs (in smaller chunks at a modest calorie deficit) and I still have about 40 to go. I have enough struggles in life without torturing myself, and I've gotten a lot of maintenance practice in as well. I know not everyone wants to wait that long, and that's fine too, but hopefully there's a happy medium to be had there (emphasis on the *happy* part).
This just seems a perfect example of one way not being the best for everyone. You prefer a slow method, someone else prefers a fast method. Neither is right or wrong, they are simply different. The fact that her method works for her but makes you sad is somewhat odd but really neither here nor there.6 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
This just seems a perfect example of one way not being the best for everyone. You prefer a slow method, someone else prefers a fast method. Neither is right or wrong, they are simply different. The fact that her method works for her but makes you sad is somewhat odd but really neither here nor there.
I think being sad is a pretty natural response to a person "torturing" themself. But at any rate, I acknowledged that people are different and some prefer a faster route.
But there's a study I'd like to see... how long-term success rates compare between people who have taken a drastic approach vs those who took a more moderate approach. I'm not trying to be snarky or imply anything... I just think it would be genuinely interesting.3 -
I think being sad is a pretty natural response to a person "torturing" themself. But at any rate, I acknowledged that people are different and some prefer a faster route.
But there's a study I'd like to see... how long-term success rates compare between people who have taken a drastic approach vs those who took a more moderate approach. I'm not trying to be snarky or imply anything... I just think it would be genuinely interesting.
I think the numbers would favour a slow approach but they would be skewed. The casual non- commuted dieters would skew the results because they do always seem to go with the quick and fadish ways. I can’t think how a study could compare the serious committed dieters - success and long term success rates between the lose it fast or slow without getting mucked up with those who never really committed to the process. A study with well selected subjects, yes that would be interesting.
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One of the things I've noticed on studies about weight loss and maintenance is that the advice to lose slowly so as to learn how to maintain a weight loss, while perfectly rational and logical and the standard for most weight loss programs (including MFP), isn't borne out in the research. It doesn't seem to matter HOW one loses the weight, so much as what one does after one has lost the weight.
The biggest indicators of who will maintain a lower weight (whether after a weight loss or if the person has been at a healthy weight for their adult life) seem to be: having a good internal locus of control, a good support system (that includes some other-directed and some self-directed motivation/contacts), and exercise (doesn't have to be Cross-Fit or working out at a gym; it can be a stroll around the neighborhood every day) and have nothing to do with HOW the weight was lost.
I'm making these observations as someone who is trying to get down to a BMI of 24 and stay there long-term instead of ping-ponging between a BMI of 27 and 24 because, I will be honest, I like the way I looked when I'm thinner. Secondary to that is the fact that I am less likely to get diabetes and that, as my PCP has pointed out, every pound I lose is a pound I don't have to carry around with me on long hikes. (I am a minimalist hiker.) So the internal question of how to stay there once I get there is one of very relevant importance to me.
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snarlingcoyote wrote: »One of the things I've noticed on studies about weight loss and maintenance is that the advice to lose slowly so as to learn how to maintain a weight loss, while perfectly rational and logical and the standard for most weight loss programs (including MFP), isn't borne out in the research. It doesn't seem to matter HOW one loses the weight, so much as what one does after one has lost the weight.
The biggest indicators of who will maintain a lower weight (whether after a weight loss or if the person has been at a healthy weight for their adult life) seem to be: having a good internal locus of control, a good support system (that includes some other-directed and some self-directed motivation/contacts), and exercise (doesn't have to be Cross-Fit or working out at a gym; it can be a stroll around the neighborhood every day) and have nothing to do with HOW the weight was lost.
I'm making these observations as someone who is trying to get down to a BMI of 24 and stay there long-term instead of ping-ponging between a BMI of 27 and 24 because, I will be honest, I like the way I looked when I'm thinner. Secondary to that is the fact that I am less likely to get diabetes and that, as my PCP has pointed out, every pound I lose is a pound I don't have to carry around with me on long hikes. (I am a minimalist hiker.) So the internal question of how to stay there once I get there is one of very relevant importance to me.
I like how you think. I too have been peripherally aware of research that says quick or slow weight loss doesn’t matter to long term success (even one which says quicker is MORE likely to result in long term success). But I don’t know if they are scientific and peer reviewed enough (for the MFP crowd) and frankly have not cared enough to track down the references. I’m not actually aware of anything other than forum chatter advice that says take it slowly (in the context of sustained weight loss). Again, that particular issue wasn’t relevant to me (I had made my decision and it was working well for me) so I never looked into it. But I am skeptical of the claims that the slower the more likely the weight will stay off.1 -
I am always willing to learn. Found this, which again probably involves too many variables to be truly scientific, but that seems to bear out what some of you are saying:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780395/
I also found this in an abstract (but wasn't willing to pay to read the actual study):
"According to our review, successful weight maintenance is associated with more initial weight loss, reaching a self-determined goal weight, having a physically active lifestyle, a regular meal rhythm including breakfast and healthier eating, control of over-eating and self-monitoring of behaviours. Weight maintenance is further associated with an internal motivation to lose weight, social support, better coping strategies and ability to handle life stress, self-efficacy, autonomy, assuming responsibility in life, and overall more psychological strength and stability. Factors that may pose a risk for weight regain include a history of weight cycling, disinhibited eating, binge eating, more hunger, eating in response to negative emotions and stress, and more passive reactions to problems."
Honestly, I lack many, if not most, of the positive qualities associated with maintenance, but all-in-all, I still don't seem to be doing too bad.
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I lost the first 40 pounds (from 220-180) at 1200 calories.
Then I bonked and got more reasonable for the remainder. I think it's common and not that difficult to go really low-cal if you have a lot of weight to lose. As I got closer to a healthy BMI, it just wasn't possible to cut calories so low and still have any energy or keep my hair. That's my N=1 results. I went up to 1600 (Net) for the remainder of my weight loss.1 -
1200-ish. When I could stick to it.0
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@try2again nicely done on the research! What MFP has taught me most is when it comes to diet and weight maintenance one size does not fit all!
I was told over and over in MFP forums that I was doing it wrong by wanting and trying to shed the weight fast. (Caveat, I never exceeded average 1.1 lb weight loss a week, and certainly never got close to the 2.0 lb loss even when obese - I stayed at healthy weight loss rate and was clear in NOT trying to be attempting unhealthy loss level. Fast to me was 1-2 lb a week). Continually told I would not be able to maintain and that my choices were not sustainable. It irked me, but I ended up just tuning it out rather than research and try to refute.
I went on a diet. It was unpleasant. I hope never again do I have to restrict my calorie intake by that amount. Some of what I did diet-wise was NOT a sustainable way of eating for me in the long run. INTENTIONALLY SO.
Now I'm at maintaining. Sustainability (subjectively of course) is the prime concern for me now. (Hello again cheddar cheese!)
I don't think my way was wrong or right. It merely was what worked for me.6 -
I am always willing to learn. Found this, which again probably involves too many variables to be truly scientific, but that seems to bear out what some of you are saying:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780395/
I also found this in an abstract (but wasn't willing to pay to read the actual study):
"According to our review, successful weight maintenance is associated with more initial weight loss, reaching a self-determined goal weight, having a physically active lifestyle, a regular meal rhythm including breakfast and healthier eating, control of over-eating and self-monitoring of behaviours. Weight maintenance is further associated with an internal motivation to lose weight, social support, better coping strategies and ability to handle life stress, self-efficacy, autonomy, assuming responsibility in life, and overall more psychological strength and stability. Factors that may pose a risk for weight regain include a history of weight cycling, disinhibited eating, binge eating, more hunger, eating in response to negative emotions and stress, and more passive reactions to problems."
Honestly, I lack many, if not most, of the positive qualities associated with maintenance, but all-in-all, I still don't seem to be doing too bad.
This is definitely a properly structured scientific study.
Purpose
This study examined whether gradual initial weight loss was associated with greater long-term weight reduction than rapid initial loss.
Methods
Groups were drawn from participants in the TOURS trial, which included a sample of middle-aged (mean =59.3 years) obese women (mean BMI =36.8) who received a 6-month lifestyle intervention followed by a 1-year extended care program. Participants were encouraged to reduce caloric intake to achieve weight losses of 0.45 kg/ week. Groups were categorized as “FAST” (≥0.68 kg/week, n=69), “MODERATE” (≥0.23 and <0.68 kg/week, n= 104), and “SLOW” (<0.23 kg/week, n=89) based on rate of weight loss during first month of treatment.1 -
I think being sad is a pretty natural response to a person "torturing" themself. But at any rate, I acknowledged that people are different and some prefer a faster route.
But there's a study I'd like to see... how long-term success rates compare between people who have taken a drastic approach vs those who took a more moderate approach. I'm not trying to be snarky or imply anything... I just think it would be genuinely interesting.
I agree that would be interesting. My guess, and that's all it is, is that the results would poor for both groups.0 -
I've gained and lost weight many times gradually getting higher. The reason I let it go so far is because the only way I knew how to lose weight was to starve myself which is very stressful. And recently in the past few years, I've had boat loads of stress, and couldn't tolerate even the thought of adding more. Now that I'm not stressed by losing weight, I hope I can keep this way up in maintenance as well, and I see no reason why not.1
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I've lost and maintained a loss of about 40% of my body weight for 5 years (right at 100 pounds). Whatever your method it boils down to having the discipline to identify what works for your lifestyle, nutritional needs and personal satisfaction then sticking to that.
Discipline.4 -
I've always heard (and have seen) people who lose a lot of weight, but don't keep it off long-term.
When I was losing I asked myself what can I do to try and keep the weight off for good? (This was before I was on weight loss/fitness message boards and I lost my weight on my own without support.)
I figured if I lost weight the long, slow boring way maybe that would help me to get adjusted to a completely new way of living which would hopefully make things easier to keep it going after I've reached my goal.
I tried different things - different eating patterns, different workouts, I learned about myself and took notes on how certain foods made me feel and I ran with it.
This worked for me. I didn't have a time-based weight loss goal so it was no pressure there. I took it easy on myself, but I remained dedicated and consistent. The weight continuously came off. And stayed off.
I'm in my 5th year of maintaining an 80 pound loss without any regain. It was my first real attempt to lose the weight as well after being overweight most of my life.
Maintenance has been a pleasant experience (other then the mental transition of eating more calories at the beginning). It took me longer to lose the weight and I had a lot of ups and downs doing everything alone and on my own, but I wouldn't change a thing.15 -
As Han Solo said, "Never tell me the odds!" Lol6
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I have lost 100 pounds 6 years ago. I kept it up for a while, then I hurt my knee and my workout routine suffered. I ran 5 miles a day for at least 4 days a week. Soon enough I started putting on weight. 20 pounds in less than two years. So here I am trying to get rid of those twenty pounds and maintain my original weight of 150 pounds (I'm 5'7). I know if I don't get a grip on it I'll be back to 250 in a heartbeat.4
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I have lost 100 pounds 6 years ago. I kept it up for a while, then I hurt my knee and my workout routine suffered. I ran 5 miles a day for at least 4 days a week. Soon enough I started putting on weight. 20 pounds in less than two years. So here I am trying to get rid of those twenty pounds and maintain my original weight of 150 pounds (I'm 5'7). I know if I don't get a grip on it I'll be back to 250 in a heartbeat.
I only run of something is chasing me, and it better be bigger and meaner than me. I just enjoy walking. Will burn as many calories, just take a bit longer.4 -
The national weight loss study says 65% regain. That means 35% don't. That is a sample of people who lost more than 30 pounds and kept it off a year before they can even get into it (I'm part of that study.) Before I started this (5 years ago), I read all the tips on how to stay in that 35% and followed them. I've done pretty well. I've regained 5 pounds and am still 33 pounds less than when I started. And I know what's wrong - it's wicked cold and I'm not exercising. I eat very very well, although my calories are low. My only regret is not doing this 10 years earlier when I first let the weight creep up. I just turned 59 and am the same weight I was at 23. (At my lowest it was 21, but hey.)6
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The national weight loss study says 65% regain. That means 35% don't. That is a sample of people who lost more than 30 pounds and kept it off a year before they can even get into it (I'm part of that study.) Before I started this (5 years ago), I read all the tips on how to stay in that 35% and followed them. I've done pretty well. I've regained 5 pounds and am still 33 pounds less than when I started. And I know what's wrong - it's wicked cold and I'm not exercising. I eat very very well, although my calories are low. My only regret is not doing this 10 years earlier when I first let the weight creep up. I just turned 59 and am the same weight I was at 23. (At my lowest it was 21, but hey.)
Thanks for the positive post I'm happy to say I'm in the 35% camp, will have been at maintenance for 5 years this summer. 3 -
I got to my goal weight last July and I've been maintaining. I know it's not long term but I've made this a lifestyle and habit that I plan to keep up. The thing is, it's almost like when I was losing the weight... I still log all of my food, I use a weight tending app to make sure I'm not gaining, and I still consistently exercise. But to me this isn't really work anymore it's just a way of life and I'm perfectly happy with it. With all of that being said I'm now working on losing 5 more pounds and then I'll go back into maintenance.4
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The national weight loss study says 65% regain. That means 35% don't. That is a sample of people who lost more than 30 pounds and kept it off a year before they can even get into it (I'm part of that study.) Before I started this (5 years ago), I read all the tips on how to stay in that 35% and followed them. I've done pretty well. I've regained 5 pounds and am still 33 pounds less than when I started.
So, is the statistic that 35% keep it off for a year, or only that one has to keep it off for a year to get in the registry? And if it's not a year, then for what period of time do 35% keep it off? One year isn't very long.0 -
As Lawerence of Arabia said about surviving in the desert, "Nothing is written."
It is up to each individual to change her/his lifestyle, one day at a time.4 -
The national weight loss study says 65% regain. That means 35% don't. That is a sample of people who lost more than 30 pounds and kept it off a year before they can even get into it (I'm part of that study.) Before I started this (5 years ago), I read all the tips on how to stay in that 35% and followed them. I've done pretty well. I've regained 5 pounds and am still 33 pounds less than when I started. And I know what's wrong - it's wicked cold and I'm not exercising. I eat very very well, although my calories are low. My only regret is not doing this 10 years earlier when I first let the weight creep up. I just turned 59 and am the same weight I was at 23. (At my lowest it was 21, but hey.)
I've been gaining some of my weight back lately, but I've been lifting heavier and heavier things three times a week, so I'm happy with this.0 -
Just remember that this is not a gamble where you have to be lucky. It's entirely in your own hands whether you're successful or not.8
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@try2again nicely done on the research! What MFP has taught me most is when it comes to diet and weight maintenance one size does not fit all!
I was told over and over in MFP forums that I was doing it wrong by wanting and trying to shed the weight fast. (Caveat, I never exceeded average 1.1 lb weight loss a week, and certainly never got close to the 2.0 lb loss even when obese - I stayed at healthy weight loss rate and was clear in NOT trying to be attempting unhealthy loss level. Fast to me was 1-2 lb a week). Continually told I would not be able to maintain and that my choices were not sustainable. It irked me, but I ended up just tuning it out rather than research and try to refute.
I went on a diet. It was unpleasant. I hope never again do I have to restrict my calorie intake by that amount. Some of what I did diet-wise was NOT a sustainable way of eating for me in the long run. INTENTIONALLY SO.
Now I'm at maintaining. Sustainability (subjectively of course) is the prime concern for me now. (Hello again cheddar cheese!)
I don't think my way was wrong or right. It merely was what worked for me.
The flu caught me and smacked me down good, so I am a few days late with this, but. . .
Your post reminded me of something.
Years and years and years ago, there was a computer geek diet program that went around - this is back in the days when things went viral by people making physical copies on floppies and handing them around or putting them on the Usenet, mind you. There was one comment, one nugget of absolute wisdom in that diet that has stayed with me for all of my adult life. I am completely paraphrasing, but the gist of it was that it is okay to be hungry, even if it doesn't feel good. You are losing weight! Normal hunger is okay.
That thought has sustained me and kept my weight down for many years. Sometimes I'm hungry and I don't have any food with me and I think about McDonald's. . .then I think. Yeah. It's okay to be hungry. I give myself permission feel a little unpleasant until I find something healthy.
I sometimes wonder if we, as a culture, have lost this concept, hence the slow. gradual method of dieting is the only one some can stand?
I remember as a kid being hungry before dinner and my mom saying "a little hungry won't kill you." And, you know what? It didn't, it just added sauce to the meal when we ate. Now we'd tell the kid to go grab an apple or a carrot. . .11 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
So, is the statistic that 35% keep it off for a year, or only that one has to keep it off for a year to get in the registry? And if it's not a year, then for what period of time do 35% keep it off? One year isn't very long.
You have to have lost the weight and kept it off a full year to get in the registry.
My first goal was losing the weight. My second was getting in the registry. My third is to stay in that 35%.
The 35% is people who have lost more than 30 pounds and kept it off at least FOUR years. I have it all three goals. Hoping to extend that!
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