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tea/coffe/diet pop vs water debate
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This discussion was created from replies split from: tea/coffee/diet pop same as water?.
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I know your question was about tea, but diet soda has been mentioned. Diet soda may hydrate as much as water, but it has been linked to weight gain:
http://time.com/collection/guide-to-weight-loss/3746047/diet-soda-weight-gain/38 -
Correlation is not causation. In general, diet soda 'causes' weight gain because many people who drink it seem to feel that doing so negates the calories in the meal they order with it. (I.E. thinking that if they order an extra-large fries, breaded chicken sandwich, salad with 3 tbsp dressing, and fudge sundae, somehow if they have a diet coke, it will magically counter all the other calories.) Of course it doesn't work that way.12
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abbefaria4 wrote: »I know your question was about tea, but diet soda has been mentioned. Diet soda may hydrate as much as water, but it has been linked to weight gain:
http://time.com/collection/guide-to-weight-loss/3746047/diet-soda-weight-gain/
And many, many, many studies have never been able to find any causation, only correlation.11 -
As far as I can tell, scientific opinion is overwhelmingly against diet soda. Consider the below link that discusses the current state of research to date. Is there a single major scientist who is confident that diet soda does not cause weight gain?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/09/08/the-awful-truth-about-diet-soda-and-weight-gain-according-to-science/#4dbd4f7462f8
Also, you mentioned the reason people drinking diet soda gain more weight is because they use it to justify eating more. Do you have any evidence to back that up. Consider Stanford professor Kelly McGonigal's explanation of the more likely reason why people eat more on diet soda. I'm quoting chapter three of her book The Willpower Instinct. It's discussing why people have a hard time staying on diets. "This is a little known effect of diet soda that contributes to hunger, overeating, and weight gain. The sweet taste tricks the body into taking up glucose from the bloodstream in anticipation of a sugar spike. You're left with less energy and less self-control, while your body and brain wonder what happened to the sugar rush you were promised. This may be why recent studies show diet soda is associated with weight gain, not weight loss."
Kelly's point isn't that people irrationally eat more because of "magical thinking", it's that diet soda has an actual metabolic effect which makes them hungrier.28 -
Sure the content is mostly water, but coffee and tea are also diuretic so I don’t count them into my 6 glass a day consumption. The amount of water doesn’t affect my weight much, but my skin looks better and my head hurts when I don’t drink enough.14
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Also note, my second link discusses studies that have shown diet soda causes weight gain even when calorie consumption was the same. The effect was there whether the artificial sweetener was used in tea or diet soda.20
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abbefaria4 wrote: »As far as I can tell, scientific opinion is overwhelmingly against diet soda. Consider the below link that discusses the current state of research to date. Is there a single major scientist who is confident that diet soda does not cause weight gain?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/09/08/the-awful-truth-about-diet-soda-and-weight-gain-according-to-science/#4dbd4f7462f8
Also, you mentioned the reason people drinking diet soda gain more weight is because they use it to justify eating more. Do you have any evidence to back that up. Consider Stanford professor Kelly McGonigal's explanation of the more likely reason why people eat more on diet soda. I'm quoting chapter three of her book The Willpower Instinct. It's discussing why people have a hard time staying on diets. "This is a little known effect of diet soda that contributes to hunger, overeating, and weight gain. The sweet taste tricks the body into taking up glucose from the bloodstream in anticipation of a sugar spike. You're left with less energy and less self-control, while your body and brain wonder what happened to the sugar rush you were promised. This may be why recent studies show diet soda is associated with weight gain, not weight loss."
Kelly's point isn't that people irrationally eat more because of "magical thinking", it's that diet soda has an actual metabolic effect which makes them hungrier.
The bolded part clearly demonstrates the author's complete lack (or ignorance) of knowledge of basic physiological concepts. That's not how any of this works. It might sell books, but it's not fact-based.
If we put aside the woo and look at actual science, there's nothing there to prove that diet soda is causally linked with weight gain: https://examine.com/nutrition/is-diet-soda-bad-for-you/ (links to studies included therein).
Weight gain/loss is dictated by calorie intake in relation to energy expenditure. A (nominally) zero-calorie beverage will not magically defy the laws of energy balance and cause weight gain just because there are artificial sweeteners in it. Again, the concept defies basic physiological concepts.23 -
Sure the content is mostly water, but coffee and tea are also diuretic so I don’t count them into my 6 glass a day consumption. The amount of water doesn’t affect my weight much, but my skin looks better and my head hurts when I don’t drink enough.
No.
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/12187618...caffeine consumption stimulates a mild diuresis similar to water, but there is no evidence of a fluid-electrolyte imbalance that is detrimental to exercise performance or health. Investigations comparing caffeine (100-680 mg) to water or placebo seldom found a statistical difference in urine volume. In the 10 studies reviewed, consumption of a CB resulted in 0-84% retention of the initial volume ingested, whereas consumption of water resulted in 0-81% retention...14 -
The idea that coffee and tea have a diuretic effect has been debunked.
https://www.webmd.com/parenting/features/healthy-beverages12 -
Your link says there were no studies that were conducted with caloric consumption held constant. I cited two in my link. Let's run a hypothetical, if we were to ask every specialist in the Harvard biology department and medical school, "Does the evidence suggest diet soda consumption causes weight gain?", what do you think the majority of responses would say. I ask again, is there a single major scientist in this country who has taken your side or a single article that has run in a major journal?22
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abbefaria4 wrote: »Your link says there were no studies that were conducted with caloric consumption held constant. I cited two in my link. Let's run a hypothetical, if we were to ask every specialist in the Harvard biology department and medical school, "Does the evidence suggest diet soda consumption causes weight gain?", what do you think the majority of responses would say. I ask again, is there a single major scientist in this country who has taken your side or a single article that has run in a major journal?
Believe what you want to believe. The laws of energy balance aren't referred to as the suggestions of energy balance. They're scientifically proven/validated concepts.
I can choose not to believe in gravity too - but if I jump out of a tree I'm going to hit the ground no matter what I want to "believe".14 -
The scientists are with me, not you as I've repeated. What you have is "bro science."36
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Exactly, the 64oz per day is not exactly a myth but it's based on calculations of food intake to water requirements and the 64oz included water within the food itself, which is substantial. The marketing myth of being thirsty before you know it is another thing that needs to die. Your body is pretty good at letting you know when you need food and water.
OP, tea, coffee and sodas are pretty much the same for hydration but for anyone doing IF or other fasting they are not the same since they cause certain metabolic reactions that alter the fasting state.
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abbefaria4 wrote: »The scientists are with me, not you as I've repeated. What you have is "bro science."
But that's the thing. They're not.14 -
Sure the content is mostly water, but coffee and tea are also diuretic so I don’t count them into my 6 glass a day consumption. The amount of water doesn’t affect my weight much, but my skin looks better and my head hurts when I don’t drink enough.
This is incorrect, the diuretic effects of these drinks is insignificant and has negligable impact on their ability to hydrate the body. You would have to drink a lot of coffee or tea to actually get the diuretic effect. I'm not surprised that your skin looks better since hydration levels can affect the apperance and quality.4 -
abbefaria4 wrote: »The scientists are with me, not you as I've repeated. What you have is "bro science."
No, there’re not. Repeating something doesn’t make it true, it just makes you repetitive. You’re the one spouting bro science, correlation does not equal causation. Link a study showing causation..........I’ll wait.
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abbefaria4 wrote: »The scientists are with me, not you as I've repeated. What you have is "bro science."
So quoting a business magazine article makes you an authority on the state of the body of scientific evidence? Ok that makes so much sense. I'll turn in my neuroscience degree and take a subscription out on Forbes.13 -
If you want to read research review about it, go to http://seriecientifica.org/sites/default/files/scl_enc_butchko.pdf and into the sub-heading "Evaluation of Appetite, Food Intake, and Usefulness of Aspartame in Weight Control".
Then go tell all the researchers who authored all those studies that it's broscience.9 -
Alatarel75, I know I seem like I'm being a troll, but I'm honestly not trying to. Those links seemed legitimate to me. You guys may know more than me and be right, but I'm not an expert. At the very least, don't they provide some evidence?16
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Sorry about the broscience comment. Having a bad day. I realize you probably know more about me on this stuff. I guess I just don't know what to make of it all the research. Your right. That was a good study. The studies I cited seem good too. I don't know what to say If multiple studies point in different directions.7
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