Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.

tea/coffe/diet pop vs water debate

Options
24

Replies

  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    Options
    abbefaria4 wrote: »
    Wheelhouse15, your right. Sorry about how I sounded earlier. I'm not an expert. I guess I just thought the studies seemed convincing.

    See my reply above, I'm just a sarcastic person late at night lol.
  • positivepowers
    positivepowers Posts: 902 Member
    Options
    BetterInTheFall wrote: »
    abbefaria4 wrote: »
    The scientists are with me, not you as I've repeated. What you have is "bro science."

    No, there’re not. Repeating something doesn’t make it true, it just makes you repetitive. You’re the one spouting bro science, correlation does not equal causation. Link a study showing causation..........I’ll wait.

    Actually, I would say, "Link a peer reviewed study. I just did a quick search on Google Scholar trying to prove that soda, tea, etc., was equal to water and found: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3577072/ .
    This shows some causation between soda, tea, coffee, etc., usage in dehydration and linked it to cognitive decline in the elderly.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    Options
    meowthhh wrote: »
    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    meowthhh wrote: »
    Sure the content is mostly water, but coffee and tea are also diuretic so I don’t count them into my 6 glass a day consumption. The amount of water doesn’t affect my weight much, but my skin looks better and my head hurts when I don’t drink enough.

    This is incorrect, the diuretic effects of these drinks is insignificant and has negligable impact on their ability to hydrate the body. You would have to drink a lot of coffee or tea to actually get the diuretic effect. I'm not surprised that your skin looks better since hydration levels can affect the apperance and quality.

    I guess I don’t read enough current stuff about health and fitness :/ thanks for the info

    I still can’t imagine substituting my water intake with any of the 3 though, habits I guess

    Many would say it's the best thing to drink so no need to change unless you want to. Just know that if you want to switch some of your water for coffee or tea that it isn't going to be an issue either.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    Options
    positivepowers wrote: »
    BetterInTheFall wrote: »
    abbefaria4 wrote: »
    The scientists are with me, not you as I've repeated. What you have is "bro science."

    No, there’re not. Repeating something doesn’t make it true, it just makes you repetitive. You’re the one spouting bro science, correlation does not equal causation. Link a study showing causation..........I’ll wait.

    Actually, I would say, "Link a peer reviewed study. I just did a quick search on Google Scholar trying to prove that soda, tea, etc., was equal to water and found: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3577072/ .
    This shows some causation between soda, tea, coffee, etc., usage in dehydration and linked it to cognitive decline in the elderly.

    Not sure how a correlative study shows causality but it's curious that it seems to be limited to women who drink tea and no difference was found with men. I only did a quick read though but the authors seem to note that there are a lot of issues with many of the studies that included as well.

    I'll have to look more into this since this looks pretty interesting but at this time it seems that the results are rather muddled.
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,728 Member
    Options
    Ryansworld84 wrote: »
    I cannot ever accept the people who say they NEVER drink water and only diet pop. I drink diet pop but not in the amounts some people here do :D

    I just cannot wrap my head around all the crap in it and what stuff we don't know about right now. For me my MO is more chemicals might be bad so dont over do it.

    I can see this topic usually sparks a lot of debate, and rude responses on these forums.

    I work with a guy who hasn't drunk water in years or decades.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    edited January 2018
    Options
    stevencloser wrote: »
    abbefaria4 wrote: »
    As far as I can tell, scientific opinion is overwhelmingly against diet soda. Consider the below link that discusses the current state of research to date. Is there a single major scientist who is confident that diet soda does not cause weight gain?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/09/08/the-awful-truth-about-diet-soda-and-weight-gain-according-to-science/#4dbd4f7462f8

    Also, you mentioned the reason people drinking diet soda gain more weight is because they use it to justify eating more. Do you have any evidence to back that up. Consider Stanford professor Kelly McGonigal's explanation of the more likely reason why people eat more on diet soda. I'm quoting chapter three of her book The Willpower Instinct. It's discussing why people have a hard time staying on diets. "This is a little known effect of diet soda that contributes to hunger, overeating, and weight gain. The sweet taste tricks the body into taking up glucose from the bloodstream in anticipation of a sugar spike. You're left with less energy and less self-control, while your body and brain wonder what happened to the sugar rush you were promised. This may be why recent studies show diet soda is associated with weight gain, not weight loss."

    Kelly's point isn't that people irrationally eat more because of "magical thinking", it's that diet soda has an actual metabolic effect which makes them hungrier.

    Yeah, I looked at those linked studies. The "non-increased food intake" wasn't actually measured. They filled out a questionnaire about what they usually eat, like in 90% of long-term studies like this. Same with their energy expenditure. That's probably the least reliable way of getting numbers like that. Not to mention the ones who drank diet soda may have already been gaining weight and have been using diet soda in the hopes of stopping it without eating less, something you can't know if you only take a measure of weight at the beginning of your study and one at the end.

    Oh, also the two studies both used the same data and looked for the same things, so they were kinda redundant to begin with.

    And we know that self-reports are so inaccurate you can just chuck them in the garbage and not feel guilty. Plenty of metabolic chamber studies have shown that people are horrible at self-reports and are usually under reporting consumption by half. People also tend to over report exercise by double. This originally led earlier researchers, who relied on self reports, to conclude that obese people were no different in eating and exercising habits than those of normal weight, but this has been proven to be incorrect due to the self-reporting bias. Researchers that still employ these methods of self-report are intentionally employing deceptive tactics for research money and to make a name for themselves IMO. I often suspect these researchers will eventually write books based on these flawed findings because that happens a lot in the diet industry.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Options
    One of those studies was basically a look back over years at people who more consumed soda (diet or non) and people who did not, and found that people who consumed soda of either type were more likely to have gained.

    That kind of study doesn't allow for an accurate calorie comparison.

    There are MANY reasons why people who consume more soda might, on average, gain weight more as they age than people who don't. Big reason: health conscious people are more likely to not consume soda or to consume less soda and to have other habits that help avoid weight gain (basically people who try to live healthfully do a bunch of things, including eating vegetables, exercise). Another possible reason: people who consume soda have more of a sweet tooth on average (NOT because of the soda) and so don't consume as many sweets which would in some cases make it easier to control calories.

    Most people don't watch calories, so big longterm studies like this don't tell us that consuming diet soda makes it harder to lose. (I can take or leave soda, my vice is coffee when it comes to beverages, but since I like diet soda and have never had difficulty drinking water, if I happen to feel like a diet coke I have one. I don't keep it at home, though, because it's a hassle to carry and I normally walk to and from the grocery store.)
  • shannonprovenzano2812
    shannonprovenzano2812 Posts: 60 Member
    Options
    3bambi3 wrote: »
    shannonprovenzano2812 wrote: »
    abbefaria4 wrote: »
    As far as I can tell, scientific opinion is overwhelmingly against diet soda. Consider the below link that discusses the current state of research to date. Is there a single major scientist who is confident that diet soda does not cause weight gain?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/09/08/the-awful-truth-about-diet-soda-and-weight-gain-according-to-science/#4dbd4f7462f8

    Also, you mentioned the reason people drinking diet soda gain more weight is because they use it to justify eating more. Do you have any evidence to back that up. Consider Stanford professor Kelly McGonigal's explanation of the more likely reason why people eat more on diet soda. I'm quoting chapter three of her book The Willpower Instinct. It's discussing why people have a hard time staying on diets. "This is a little known effect of diet soda that contributes to hunger, overeating, and weight gain. The sweet taste tricks the body into taking up glucose from the bloodstream in anticipation of a sugar spike. You're left with less energy and less self-control, while your body and brain wonder what happened to the sugar rush you were promised. This may be why recent studies show diet soda is associated with weight gain, not weight loss."

    Kelly's point isn't that people irrationally eat more because of "magical thinking", it's that diet soda has an actual metabolic effect which makes them hungrier.

    If it weren't for diet soda, I wouldn't have survived this long on my diet. Is it as healthy as water? No! there's sodium and artificial sweeteners in it. But it is very low- no calories. A bottle of coke zero has about 4 calories from the artificial sweetener but they're allowed to mark the calories as zero because anything under than 5 counts as insignificant to the FDA.

    There have been studies done that show artificial sweeteners cause a chemical reaction in the body that may trigger hunger/ sugar cravings like the one above. But for me, diet soda is a lifesaver because if I'm at the movies and everyone near me is eating popcorn and drinking sprite, at least I have something that isn't water to drink. I've lost over 90lbs drinking a few bottles a day. It doesn't contribute calories. Also, for every article you've pulled, I can pull another one stating the exact opposite.

    Soda has the same amount of sodium as water, just an FYI.

    There is about 18MG of sodium in 12 ounces of water. 40MG in 12 ounces of diet coke...

Categories