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When lifestyle doesn't impact chronic disease
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amandaeve
Posts: 723 Member
in Debate Club
There is no end to studies that show how healthy lifestyles improve chronic diseases (high blood pressure, diabetes, cancer, etc.) and how poor lifestyles (smoking, drinking, sedentary, fatty food, etc.) contribute to chronic disease. I keep looking for information on the outliers. Are there studies on those with chronic disease for whom lifestyle makes no difference? We all know that person who didn’t fit the data, but I can’t find data as to percentage of the population who are outliers. Are you one of those people? I am curious how many other people are out there like me. The only influence my doctors can attribute to my hypertension is heredity; lifestyle choices make no difference- but none of them can tell me how common that is.
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I think part of the problem is what we are told is a healthy diet is not always healthiest for our situation.
I developed prediabetes when I was just barely into the overweight BMI range. I had been told to avoid fatty foods and things only got worse. When I embraced fatty whole foods, my prediabetes is under control.
I had hypotension and never once did a doctor tell me to eat more salt... because too much salt is unhealthy, right? Once I increased my salt by a lot, I had normal blood pressure.
I had reactive hypoglycemia so I shook, got headaches and cold sweats if I did not eat every 2-3 hours as prescribed. I greatly reduced my carb intake, against one doctor's orders, and I was suddenly better.
I think a "healthy lifestyle" is sometimes just dogma based on little evidence. Some seems absolutely true like smoking is bad and activity is good. Some only has some correlations to good health, or just some opinions, going for it, and that's it.20 -
I went to my GP a few years back and had a BP check. His advice at the time was that I should exercise a bit more, so I asked what I should do in addition to running 40 miles per week and should I aim higher than Half Marathons.
His response was that he meant to go for a brisk walk!
fwiw Marathons did seem to be the cusp point for improvement.13 -
I don't know about any studies. But I have been thinking a lot about this. I think getting excess weight off will improve quality of life even if it doesn't directly makes a difference on any illnesses. One of the great things that happened to me this time when I lost weight, was that I realized that it wouldn't make my life fantastic. I'm more flexible, I can get into smaller clothes, my back doesn't hurt, I love to cook now - but I'm still the same person, struggling with the same insecurities, poor motor skills, vision and hearing impairment, I've not turned into a gym fiend, etc etc. Coming to terms with that, actually makes it easier to stick to the new lifestyle. (Not that the lifestyle isn't easy to stick to in itself, I just feel grounded, in a new and different way.)14
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@MeanderingMammal lol, yeah, if I had a dollar for every vegetarian friend who was told by their GP to eat less red meat!
@kommodevaran Agreed, perspective is important, and I think medicine misses that sometimes.0 -
There is no end to studies that show how healthy lifestyles improve chronic diseases (high blood pressure, diabetes, cancer, etc.) and how poor lifestyles (smoking, drinking, sedentary, fatty food, etc.) contribute to chronic disease. I keep looking for information on the outliers. Are there studies on those with chronic disease for whom lifestyle makes no difference? We all know that person who didn’t fit the data, but I can’t find data as to percentage of the population who are outliers. Are you one of those people? I am curious how many other people are out there like me. The only influence my doctors can attribute to my hypertension is heredity; lifestyle choices make no difference- but none of them can tell me how common that is.
I have severe digestive issues. People say to eat more fiber, fruits, veggies, lean meat, and drink more water. What they fail to understand is in my case, fiber makes it 100x worse as does tough meats. And drinking lots of water makes no difference. The unhealthier I eat, the better I feel and less hospital trips I make. My conditions are Gastroparesis and Colonic Inertia. What's even worse is there have been nutritionists who assume I have an eating disorder because I don't eat much and like being a small size. Um, yeah a slow stomach + paralyzed colon = constantly full. Not my fault. And the smaller I am, the less unnecessary food/stool weight it feels like I'm carrying = the more energy I have to get things done. Some people are pricks, I swear.8 -
When I quit smoking my blood pressure shot up. It took me two years to get it back down. I still can't explain that one.4
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I have no idea how common it is in the general population, but hereditary hypertension is pretty common in my mother's side of the family. My grandfather was diagnosed with high blood pressure when he was 18 and enlisting for WWII. At the time he was a skinny beanpole raised on a working farm, so definitely don't think lifestyle was a factor there! My sister was slightly older when she started meds. She's gone up and down in size over the years, but weight changes haven't ever affected her blood pressure. She's also been a pretty nutrition-conscious vegetarian for at least 25 years, so low salt, low cholesterol, high fiber and all that good stuff is a big part of her lifestyle. She's even weirder though because her BP gets lower when she's stressed.
My suspicion is that there are a lot more outliers than one might expect.1 -
There is a great story about how the air force used to design cockpits that would fit the “average” pilot: average height, average leg length, average arm length, etc. But then they found that almost no one is “average” in EVERY way- you may be average height but your arms or legs or something will be unusual.
Studies of health and diet look at populations- on AVERAGE, people who eat more fruit have less heart disease, etc. But each body is its own system with its own quirks, too, and likely to be unique in one small way or another.9 -
Do you count mental illnesses as chronic disease? Everyone crows about how wonderful exercise is for treating depression, but for me personally (bipolar I, mostly depression) exercise does nothing to improve my mood. The only thing that works for my mood is medication.
I worked for a year and a half in retail, walking constantly for hours a time, never standing in one place for more than a couple minutes. For me, that was exercise, because I'm typically quite sedentary. (This was before my arthritis in my knee got so bad and before I started MFP).
I had a mixed episode (manic and depressed at the same time, I was sucidial and went into a mental hospital for a week, mixed episodes are very dangerous because the mania gives you the energy to actually go through with suicide) and quit my job.
I did three months of purposeful exercise after that, still no difference in my moods. I make myself exercise to get more calories to eat and to improve my cardiovascular health, but it doesn't seem to do a thing for my mental health.
Losing weight has also not made the arthrtis/mechanical problems in my knee better. Before I started losing weight I could stand and walk for a three hour shift at work without too much pain in my knee, mostly in my feet, and some in my knee. Now, 57 pounds lighter, I can hardly walk a mile without my knee starting to hurt.
I do have mechanical problems as well as arthritis though (I had a tendon moved 15 millimeters, which is QUITE a distance), and it's unknown which is causing the pain. I haven't done any MRIs or other tests to find out.3 -
There is no end to studies that show how healthy lifestyles improve chronic diseases (high blood pressure, diabetes, cancer, etc.) and how poor lifestyles (smoking, drinking, sedentary, fatty food, etc.) contribute to chronic disease. I keep looking for information on the outliers. Are there studies on those with chronic disease for whom lifestyle makes no difference? We all know that person who didn’t fit the data, but I can’t find data as to percentage of the population who are outliers. Are you one of those people? I am curious how many other people are out there like me. The only influence my doctors can attribute to my hypertension is heredity; lifestyle choices make no difference- but none of them can tell me how common that is.
I'm a regular exerciser and still have high BP...since losing weight and making exercise a regular thing, my meds were reduced, but I'm still on them. Exercise has also helped to keep it at around 118/75 with my meds...before exercise and a stronger dose of meds I was still like 140/90.
Heredity plays a big part...5 -
30-50% of hypertension is inherited factors. But lifestyle can make it worse. Any scientific study looks at the outliers but that's not what makes it to the popular press.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/214628491 -
I think a lot of people refuse to accept the fact that, for most chronic conditions, lifestyle is a factor, but a healthy lifestyle doesn't necessarily mean you definitely won't be afflicted with a chronic condition, and it doesn't necessarily mean you had an unhealthy lifestyle if you get one of these conditions. It would be comforting to believe you had that much control over your future, but realistically you don't. All you are doing is exerting some influence on your risk levels. We are working off of correlations. It's great to eat healthy, but even the healthiest of diets and exercise regiments is not a guarantee against high blood pressure, cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer's, etc, if that's what's in the cards for you. It doesn't mean you shouldn't try -- you should take what control you can take. However, realize that it is impossible to take absolute control. There is only so much you can do.
You should strive to be your best self, not the best ever. I wear sunscreen every day to avoid photoaging. It doesn't mean I won't look like I've aged at all -- a good portion of that is hereditary and also just unavoidable. However, it may mean that I'll look like I've aged less than I would've if I wore no sunscreen, so I'll take it. Likewise, my resting heart rate is naturally on the higher end -- about 80 BPM when I first started exercising regularly. I'm trying to lower it with regular cardio 3 - 5 times a week. It is working (I'm at 70 BPM now), but it's still pretty high compared to most other people my age/weight/gender/height. That's okay -- it's about doing what you can do with the cards you've been dealt.9 -
30-50% of hypertension is inherited factors. But lifestyle can make it worse. Any scientific study looks at the outliers but that's not what makes it to the popular press.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21462849
@lorrpb Thank you for sharing. I am impressed 30-50% is attributed to inherited factors. This thread aside, I've yet to meet anyone who went on medication who fit any or many of the categories that fit me at diagnosis (young, female, physically fit, a healthy BMI, healthy lifestyle, following a DASH diet). I have a curiosity in finding other people like me. You'd think with numbers like that study presented, I would have met more by now.
@Zodikosis I'm impressed you lowered your RHR that much! Good job!
I've also been curious about RHR averages. I've seen charts that match RHR to age and fitness level, but I've never been able to find information on how many people actually fall into what category per age group. If you have anything like that handy, please share. 1 -
KrazyKrissyy wrote: »There is no end to studies that show how healthy lifestyles improve chronic diseases (high blood pressure, diabetes, cancer, etc.) and how poor lifestyles (smoking, drinking, sedentary, fatty food, etc.) contribute to chronic disease. I keep looking for information on the outliers. Are there studies on those with chronic disease for whom lifestyle makes no difference? We all know that person who didn’t fit the data, but I can’t find data as to percentage of the population who are outliers. Are you one of those people? I am curious how many other people are out there like me. The only influence my doctors can attribute to my hypertension is heredity; lifestyle choices make no difference- but none of them can tell me how common that is.
I have severe digestive issues. People say to eat more fiber, fruits, veggies, lean meat, and drink more water. What they fail to understand is in my case, fiber makes it 100x worse as does tough meats. And drinking lots of water makes no difference. The unhealthier I eat, the better I feel and less hospital trips I make. My conditions are Gastroparesis and Colonic Inertia. What's even worse is there have been nutritionists who assume I have an eating disorder because I don't eat much and like being a small size. Um, yeah a slow stomach + paralyzed colon = constantly full. Not my fault. And the smaller I am, the less unnecessary food/stool weight it feels like I'm carrying = the more energy I have to get things done. Some people are pricks, I swear.
This. I suffer from Ulcerative Colitis and if I were to eat 'healthily' I'd end up in hospital.
And my lifestyle makes very little difference to my condition. Flare ups occur out of the blue and seem to bear no relation to what I've eaten how much stress I'm under or how much water I've drunk. I am at my best when I eat 'beige' food!3 -
comptonelizabeth wrote: »KrazyKrissyy wrote: »There is no end to studies that show how healthy lifestyles improve chronic diseases (high blood pressure, diabetes, cancer, etc.) and how poor lifestyles (smoking, drinking, sedentary, fatty food, etc.) contribute to chronic disease. I keep looking for information on the outliers. Are there studies on those with chronic disease for whom lifestyle makes no difference? We all know that person who didn’t fit the data, but I can’t find data as to percentage of the population who are outliers. Are you one of those people? I am curious how many other people are out there like me. The only influence my doctors can attribute to my hypertension is heredity; lifestyle choices make no difference- but none of them can tell me how common that is.
I have severe digestive issues. People say to eat more fiber, fruits, veggies, lean meat, and drink more water. What they fail to understand is in my case, fiber makes it 100x worse as does tough meats. And drinking lots of water makes no difference. The unhealthier I eat, the better I feel and less hospital trips I make. My conditions are Gastroparesis and Colonic Inertia. What's even worse is there have been nutritionists who assume I have an eating disorder because I don't eat much and like being a small size. Um, yeah a slow stomach + paralyzed colon = constantly full. Not my fault. And the smaller I am, the less unnecessary food/stool weight it feels like I'm carrying = the more energy I have to get things done. Some people are pricks, I swear.
This. I suffer from Ulcerative Colitis and if I were to eat 'healthily' I'd end up in hospital.
And my lifestyle makes very little difference to my condition. Flare ups occur out of the blue and seem to bear no relation to what I've eaten how much stress I'm under or how much water I've drunk. I am at my best when I eat 'beige' food!
Very interesting! However, just to clarify, this thread is about when lifestyle (including eating behaviors) have no effect on chronic conditions. Ending up in the hospital from eating certain foods is definitely an impact.2 -
30-50% of hypertension is inherited factors. But lifestyle can make it worse. Any scientific study looks at the outliers but that's not what makes it to the popular press.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21462849
@lorrpb Thank you for sharing. I am impressed 30-50% is attributed to inherited factors. This thread aside, I've yet to meet anyone who went on medication who fit any or many of the categories that fit me at diagnosis (young, female, physically fit, a healthy BMI, healthy lifestyle, following a DASH diet). I have a curiosity in finding other people like me. You'd think with numbers like that study presented, I would have met more by now.
@Zodikosis I'm impressed you lowered your RHR that much! Good job! I've also been curious about RHR averages. I've seen charts that match RHR to age and fitness level, but I've never been able to find information on how many people actually fall into what category per age group. If you have anything like that handy, please share.
I was surprised the number was that high. But just because 30-50% of hypertension is familial, it doesn't mean all those people are leading healthy lifestyles. Young healthy fit people could have it and not have any idea because they don't go to the doctor very often. That's why hypertension is called the "silent killer." It has no external symptoms.1 -
30-50% of hypertension is inherited factors. But lifestyle can make it worse. Any scientific study looks at the outliers but that's not what makes it to the popular press.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21462849
@lorrpb Thank you for sharing. I am impressed 30-50% is attributed to inherited factors. This thread aside, I've yet to meet anyone who went on medication who fit any or many of the categories that fit me at diagnosis (young, female, physically fit, a healthy BMI, healthy lifestyle, following a DASH diet). I have a curiosity in finding other people like me. You'd think with numbers like that study presented, I would have met more by now.
@Zodikosis I'm impressed you lowered your RHR that much! Good job! I've also been curious about RHR averages. I've seen charts that match RHR to age and fitness level, but I've never been able to find information on how many people actually fall into what category per age group. If you have anything like that handy, please share.
Often people find out afterwards that it's hereditary...so they're not leading a necessarily healthy lifestyle, but they start to and then find out it's hereditary.
I was diagnosed with mild hypertension when I was in my 20s and was 6 pack lean and fit...not bad enough to warrant meds, but was told to monitor it as they would likely be necessary in the future. My dad was diagnosed young and while not the fittest guy in the world, he was pretty lean and played tennis most weekends...and both my grandpa and great grandpa had it and they were both pretty fit and active.
In my dad's case, he blew up with weight and it exacerbated the issue and he also ended up with Type II diabetes and kidney disease.3 -
30-50% of hypertension is inherited factors. But lifestyle can make it worse. Any scientific study looks at the outliers but that's not what makes it to the popular press.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21462849
@lorrpb Thank you for sharing. I am impressed 30-50% is attributed to inherited factors. This thread aside, I've yet to meet anyone who went on medication who fit any or many of the categories that fit me at diagnosis (young, female, physically fit, a healthy BMI, healthy lifestyle, following a DASH diet). I have a curiosity in finding other people like me. You'd think with numbers like that study presented, I would have met more by now.
@Zodikosis I'm impressed you lowered your RHR that much! Good job! I've also been curious about RHR averages. I've seen charts that match RHR to age and fitness level, but I've never been able to find information on how many people actually fall into what category per age group. If you have anything like that handy, please share.
There's any RHR chart for Canada here:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-626-x/2013001/t004-eng.htm
It's not numbers of people, but it does have percentiles of people. (I'm not Canadian, but its the first one I found from a solid source, and I'd be surprised if the rest of the first world were wildly different.)
The post you're replying to is right, though: Individuals can vary in absolute RHR, even at similar fitness levels.2 -
30-50% of hypertension is inherited factors. But lifestyle can make it worse. Any scientific study looks at the outliers but that's not what makes it to the popular press.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21462849
@lorrpb Thank you for sharing. I am impressed 30-50% is attributed to inherited factors. This thread aside, I've yet to meet anyone who went on medication who fit any or many of the categories that fit me at diagnosis (young, female, physically fit, a healthy BMI, healthy lifestyle, following a DASH diet). I have a curiosity in finding other people like me. You'd think with numbers like that study presented, I would have met more by now.
@Zodikosis I'm impressed you lowered your RHR that much! Good job! I've also been curious about RHR averages. I've seen charts that match RHR to age and fitness level, but I've never been able to find information on how many people actually fall into what category per age group. If you have anything like that handy, please share.
There's any RHR chart for Canada here:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-626-x/2013001/t004-eng.htm
It's not numbers of people, but it does have percentiles of people. (I'm not Canadian, but its the first one I found from a solid source, and I'd be surprised if the rest of the first world were wildly different.)
The post you're replying to is right, though: Individuals can vary in absolute RHR, even at similar fitness levels.
Thank you for some more data, @AnnPT77. So just to clarify for OP, depending on how familiar you are with statistical tables, the "outliers" would be the 5th-10th percentile, and 90-95th percentile, depending on how tightly you want to define outlier. These numbers would be the tails on a bell curve.2
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