Low carb vs Ketogenic. CICO?
RubinaKochar
Posts: 43 Member
I did ketogenic in the past but it was too restrictive for me since I am a vegetarian. I gained back some of the weight I lost when I fell off wagon.
I started again recently but this time around, I am not OCD about it. I ea mostly low carb high fat foods because of the satiety. It's easier to create calorie deficit eating this way. And once a week, when I visit my family, I eat what they cook. Though I'm always within my calorie limit.
My question is would I lose weight by this? Is weight loss really as simple as Calories in Calories out irrespective of whatever macro dominates my diet?
I started again recently but this time around, I am not OCD about it. I ea mostly low carb high fat foods because of the satiety. It's easier to create calorie deficit eating this way. And once a week, when I visit my family, I eat what they cook. Though I'm always within my calorie limit.
My question is would I lose weight by this? Is weight loss really as simple as Calories in Calories out irrespective of whatever macro dominates my diet?
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Replies
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Yes. Going lower-carb will cause your scale to go down faster at the beginning, because you will shed more initial water weight. But over time, it levels off.
My n=1: I eat around 50% carbs and I'm down nearly 100lbs in 15 months.9 -
@estherdragonbat. Thanks a lot for your response.
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Hi Rubina,
I currently follow a lower carb diet. But implement carbs immediately post work out (pending on your needs, can be between 25g - 50g) since I do weight training and cardio. Besides that, the only carbs I consume during the day are in the form of veggies and fruit. This seems to work for me. I'm down about 60 lbs so far.
-Michelle1 -
Yes in the long term it really is down to calories in/calories out, check out the success boards, people have lost with moderate carb/low catrb/high carb, working out/doing no exercise at all it's all down to what works for you.
I personally eat around 200-250g of carbs and lose just fine.
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All you need to do is eat at a calorie deficit!
I did keto for about a year and lost about 20lbs (160lbs to 140lbs at 5'7"). I ended up finding it too restrictive and quitting, then regaining the weight... since it did not teach me to eat in a sustainable way and demonized carbs, making me crave them even more.
Now I'm losing weight again with just calorie counting. I'm down to 145lbs, so getting very close to my last low-weight with keto.
I eat plenty of fast food, sugary desserts, pasta, rice... and I'm still losing weight at a good pace. And it's sustainable! The key is just accurate logging.8 -
Why do you feel that you have to manipulate carbs at all? Fat loss is all about calorie deficit.3
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I'm curious why you think you would not lose weight doing it that way.
I think low carb/keto can be helpful if one finds it makes a difference with satiety or makes things easier (sometimes just because you get to feel like you are eating in an indulgent way still, even when cutting calories). But not everyone does, and if you don't there's no weight loss benefit.
I would find very low carb hard as a vegetarian (and probably get tired of the amount of eggs and dairy I was consuming), but some might find it helpful. For me, not worrying about carb numbers but focusing on eating foods I find satiating and pleasurable and nutrient-dense would be a better approach, as well as calories, of course. If that means carbs in up at 20%, great, if it means they end up at 55%, great -- it's having a satisfying and enjoyable overall diet that hits my nutrient goals (like micros, protein) that matters to me.1 -
Why do you feel that you have to manipulate carbs at all? Fat loss is all about calorie deficit.
It's easier for me to feel full on higher fat diet and helps me create a deficit. Since I have to cut somewhere to accommodate higher fats and I can't compromise proteins, therefore lower carb.7 -
RubinaKochar wrote: »Why do you feel that you have to manipulate carbs at all? Fat loss is all about calorie deficit.
It's easier for me to feel full on higher fat diet and helps me create a deficit. Since I have to cut somewhere to accommodate higher fats and I can't compromise proteins, therefore lower carb.
Ah, that makes sense.0 -
KellyPoetry wrote: »Keto can be dangerous if not done correctly, alsoy friend who does keto,has metabolic weakness. And insulin resistance so she gains on all carbs. Not everyone needs to be on keto... Is there a health reason for choosin keto?
No. No particular reason. It's easier to create deficit on low carb, high fat is all.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I'm curious why you think you would not lose weight doing it that way.
I think low carb/keto can be helpful if one finds it makes a difference with satiety or makes things easier (sometimes just because you get to feel like you are eating in an indulgent way still, even when cutting calories). But not everyone does, and if you don't there's no weight loss benefit.
I would find very low carb hard as a vegetarian (and probably get tired of the amount of eggs and dairy I was consuming), but some might find it helpful. For me, not worrying about carb numbers but focusing on eating foods I find satiating and pleasurable and nutrient-dense would be a better approach, as well as calories, of course. If that means carbs in up at 20%, great, if it means they end up at 55%, great -- it's having a satisfying and enjoyable overall diet that hits my nutrient goals (like micros, protein) that matters to me.
I agree to all you said. I think the main problem is that I'm feeling better creating a deficit on low carb high fat. When I was trying everything in moderation, I was eating my fingertips off. Maybe I'll learn a better, less "diet-oriented" path along the way, but for now this seems doable.4 -
All you need to do is eat at a calorie deficit!
I did keto for about a year and lost about 20lbs (160lbs to 140lbs at 5'7"). I ended up finding it too restrictive and quitting, then regaining the weight... since it did not teach me to eat in a sustainable way and demonized carbs, making me crave them even more.
Now I'm losing weight again with just calorie counting. I'm down to 145lbs, so getting very close to my last low-weight with keto.
I eat plenty of fast food, sugary desserts, pasta, rice... and I'm still losing weight at a good pace. And it's sustainable! The key is just accurate logging.
Thank you. This does take out a lot of anxiety.1 -
Hi Rubina,
I currently follow a lower carb diet. But implement carbs immediately post work out (pending on your needs, can be between 25g - 50g) since I do weight training and cardio. Besides that, the only carbs I consume during the day are in the form of veggies and fruit. This seems to work for me. I'm down about 60 lbs so far.
-Michelle
Oh wow. Congratulations. I think it boils down to CICO then? I hope to lose these 20ish lbs some day.0 -
RubinaKochar wrote: »Hi Rubina,
I currently follow a lower carb diet. But implement carbs immediately post work out (pending on your needs, can be between 25g - 50g) since I do weight training and cardio. Besides that, the only carbs I consume during the day are in the form of veggies and fruit. This seems to work for me. I'm down about 60 lbs so far.
-Michelle
Oh wow. Congratulations. I think it boils down to CICO then? I hope to lose these 20ish lbs some day.
It always boils down to CICO.3 -
RubinaKochar wrote: »I did ketogenic in the past but it was too restrictive for me since I am a vegetarian. I gained back some of the weight I lost when I fell off wagon.
I started again recently but this time around, I am not OCD about it. I ea mostly low carb high fat foods because of the satiety. It's easier to create calorie deficit eating this way. And once a week, when I visit my family, I eat what they cook. Though I'm always within my calorie limit.
My question is would I lose weight by this? Is weight loss really as simple as Calories in Calories out irrespective of whatever macro dominates my diet?
Yes...a calorie is just a unit of energy...all of us require XXXX amount of energy to maintain the status quot. When we consume more energy than we require, that surplus is stored as body fat...stored energy...basically your backup generator.
When you consume less energy than your body requires, you are in an energy deficit...that deficit has to be made up for...so your backup generator kicks on and your burn stored energy...ie body fat.
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RubinaKochar wrote: »Hi Rubina,
I currently follow a lower carb diet. But implement carbs immediately post work out (pending on your needs, can be between 25g - 50g) since I do weight training and cardio. Besides that, the only carbs I consume during the day are in the form of veggies and fruit. This seems to work for me. I'm down about 60 lbs so far.
-Michelle
Oh wow. Congratulations. I think it boils down to CICO then? I hope to lose these 20ish lbs some day.
It always boils down to CICO.
Thanks. 0 -
tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Yes in the long term it really is down to calories in/calories out, check out the success boards, people have lost with moderate carb/low catrb/high carb, working out/doing no exercise at all it's all down to what works for you.
I personally eat around 200-250g of carbs and lose just fine.
This is very helpful. Thanks a ton. 0 -
RubinaKochar wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I'm curious why you think you would not lose weight doing it that way.
I think low carb/keto can be helpful if one finds it makes a difference with satiety or makes things easier (sometimes just because you get to feel like you are eating in an indulgent way still, even when cutting calories). But not everyone does, and if you don't there's no weight loss benefit.
I would find very low carb hard as a vegetarian (and probably get tired of the amount of eggs and dairy I was consuming), but some might find it helpful. For me, not worrying about carb numbers but focusing on eating foods I find satiating and pleasurable and nutrient-dense would be a better approach, as well as calories, of course. If that means carbs in up at 20%, great, if it means they end up at 55%, great -- it's having a satisfying and enjoyable overall diet that hits my nutrient goals (like micros, protein) that matters to me.
I agree to all you said. I think the main problem is that I'm feeling better creating a deficit on low carb high fat. When I was trying everything in moderation, I was eating my fingertips off. Maybe I'll learn a better, less "diet-oriented" path along the way, but for now this seems doable.
You may find that you naturally end up lower carb but higher than keto. I'd try focusing on calories and protein and let fat and carbs fall where they do (which may well mean more fat fewer carbs if fat is what satiates you -- when you find that some foods are more satiating pay attention to that.
Which actually sounds exactly like what you described in the first post, so my short answer is yes, you will lose weight doing that, if the calories are on point! ;-)2 -
Just to further what others have said, Low carb diets come with one caveat that they always leave out. The moment you start eating a normal amount of carbs again you WILL gain water/glycogen weight back that left from the start of the low carb diet. It is NOT a permanent loss unless you plan on never having a normal amount of carbs again. It is also not stored fat which is what you are trying to lose.3
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RubinaKochar wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I'm curious why you think you would not lose weight doing it that way.
I think low carb/keto can be helpful if one finds it makes a difference with satiety or makes things easier (sometimes just because you get to feel like you are eating in an indulgent way still, even when cutting calories). But not everyone does, and if you don't there's no weight loss benefit.
I would find very low carb hard as a vegetarian (and probably get tired of the amount of eggs and dairy I was consuming), but some might find it helpful. For me, not worrying about carb numbers but focusing on eating foods I find satiating and pleasurable and nutrient-dense would be a better approach, as well as calories, of course. If that means carbs in up at 20%, great, if it means they end up at 55%, great -- it's having a satisfying and enjoyable overall diet that hits my nutrient goals (like micros, protein) that matters to me.
I agree to all you said. I think the main problem is that I'm feeling better creating a deficit on low carb high fat. When I was trying everything in moderation, I was eating my fingertips off. Maybe I'll learn a better, less "diet-oriented" path along the way, but for now this seems doable.
As long as you're meeting your nutritional needs (and I see no particular reason to worry that you aren't), I always think the best thing to do for weight loss is to follow the eating style that makes it easiest for you to maintain a deficit. Why make things harder than they are? If eating lower carbohydrate and higher fat makes it easier for you and makes weight loss more doable, go for it!4 -
Yes, which I acknowledged on the previous page:Ah, that makes sense.0 -
Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Just to further what others have said, Low carb diets come with one caveat that they always leave out. The moment you start eating a normal amount of carbs again you WILL gain water/glycogen weight back that left from the start of the low carb diet. It is NOT a permanent loss unless you plan on never having a normal amount of carbs again. It is also not stored fat which is what you are trying to lose.
Yup, it can be very dramatic depending on how big you are and how much muscle mass you have. I was 240# at the peak of my bulk eating an average of 400-500g of carbs a day. When I started my cut I dropped that to about 80-100g of carbs and ended up shedding about 20 pounds in the first two weeks... 30 pounds total since Christmas.
However, I have no delusions that it was fat I initially lost and I know that as soon as I start ramping up my carbs again it's going to be quite a rebound.
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Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Just to further what others have said, Low carb diets come with one caveat that they always leave out. The moment you start eating a normal amount of carbs again you WILL gain water/glycogen weight back that left from the start of the low carb diet. It is NOT a permanent loss unless you plan on never having a normal amount of carbs again. It is also not stored fat which is what you are trying to lose.
I'm confused. I might be losing water/ glycogen mass initially. But am I not losing fat if I'm eating at a deficit consistently??
If after losing I go back to eating carbs but eating at maintenance, I would gain back water + glycogen but I won't gain fat (since I'm not eating at a caloric surplus). Isn't it??3 -
jseams1234 wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Just to further what others have said, Low carb diets come with one caveat that they always leave out. The moment you start eating a normal amount of carbs again you WILL gain water/glycogen weight back that left from the start of the low carb diet. It is NOT a permanent loss unless you plan on never having a normal amount of carbs again. It is also not stored fat which is what you are trying to lose.
Yup, it can be very dramatic depending on how big you are and how much muscle mass you have. I was 240# at the peak of my bulk eating an average of 400-500g of carbs a day. When I started my cut I dropped that to about 80-100g of carbs and ended up shedding about 20 pounds in the first two weeks... 30 pounds total since Christmas.
However, I have no delusions that it was fat I initially lost and I know that as soon as I start ramping up my carbs again it's going to be quite a rebound.
I know I will gain back water and glycogen mass when and if I start eating a normal carb diet. But why would I gain back the fat I have lost if I'm eating at maintenance?
It's a genuine question, not a rhetoric argument. :P0 -
I've lost 50lbs and 50-60% of my intake is carbs.1
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yvonne_beavis wrote: »I've lost 50lbs and 50-60% of my intake is carbs.
I do not contradict that fat can be lost at a high carb diet. I'm just very cranky when I'm eating less with nearly half of my diet being carbs. Higher fat allows me to feel full. If you don't feel like me on a normal carb diet, more power to you! I envy your will power. 0 -
RubinaKochar wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Just to further what others have said, Low carb diets come with one caveat that they always leave out. The moment you start eating a normal amount of carbs again you WILL gain water/glycogen weight back that left from the start of the low carb diet. It is NOT a permanent loss unless you plan on never having a normal amount of carbs again. It is also not stored fat which is what you are trying to lose.
I'm confused. I might be losing water/ glycogen mass initially. But am I not losing fat if I'm eating at a deficit consistently??
If after losing I go back to eating carbs but eating at maintenance, I would gain back water + glycogen but I won't gain fat (since I'm not eating at a caloric surplus). Isn't it??
@Poisonedpawn78 Kindly throw some light here0 -
RubinaKochar wrote: »RubinaKochar wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Just to further what others have said, Low carb diets come with one caveat that they always leave out. The moment you start eating a normal amount of carbs again you WILL gain water/glycogen weight back that left from the start of the low carb diet. It is NOT a permanent loss unless you plan on never having a normal amount of carbs again. It is also not stored fat which is what you are trying to lose.
I'm confused. I might be losing water/ glycogen mass initially. But am I not losing fat if I'm eating at a deficit consistently??
If after losing I go back to eating carbs but eating at maintenance, I would gain back water + glycogen but I won't gain fat (since I'm not eating at a caloric surplus). Isn't it??
@Poisonedpawn78 Kindly throw some light here
I think it's just in general that a lot of people creep back to their old ways of eating if they are looking at something as a temporary measure only whilst in a deficit and not a way of eating they plan to continue on in to maintenance. If you find it more satisfying to eat higher fat/lower carb, chances are you will be fine in the long term.2 -
RubinaKochar wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Just to further what others have said, Low carb diets come with one caveat that they always leave out. The moment you start eating a normal amount of carbs again you WILL gain water/glycogen weight back that left from the start of the low carb diet. It is NOT a permanent loss unless you plan on never having a normal amount of carbs again. It is also not stored fat which is what you are trying to lose.
I'm confused. I might be losing water/ glycogen mass initially. But am I not losing fat if I'm eating at a deficit consistently??
If after losing I go back to eating carbs but eating at maintenance, I would gain back water + glycogen but I won't gain fat (since I'm not eating at a caloric surplus). Isn't it??
Yes you have it right. I was pointing out how some people think keto is magic because of that initial loss that will return once the eating habits change. They dont distinguish that it isnt permanent and confuse it with fat loss which is entirely about calories/deficit.
The fat you lose while on keto or any other diet will only return if you eat more calories than you are burning.1
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