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Vegetarian vs. Vegan vs. Eating meat..to lose weight?
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Here is my real life unbiased testimonial on the " Paperpudding Eat the foods you like and are available within calorie allowance and reasonable nutrition balance " diet
Sorry, still trying to come up with catchier name for it.
Anyway, it included meat, fish, eggs, dairy, grains, vegetables, fruit,nuts, cake, chocolate,coffee, wine - not always in that order
It did not include cucumber,watermelon, liver or crumbed brains.
I was not obese but was overweight and steadily getting more so. Lost 10 kg ( around 22 lb) over 10 months in 2013 to reach a BMI of 23 and kept it off since.
I suggest you follow my diet but substitute whatever foods you like and have available for the ones above and if you want to include cucumber, watermelon, liver or crumbed brains, you can.
And of course eat to whatever your calorie allowance is, which may or may not be similar to mine.
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You can definitely lose a bunch of weight and eat meat. I'm down 115 lbs and I had bacon and eggs for breakfast.
Different people have different dietary needs. I'm a diabetic and a lower carb diet is helpful for my blood glucose control. That doesn't mean another person would benefit from the same diet.
You mentioned liking fish - a mainly pescatarian diet can be one of the healthier diets out there.
As far as hating counting calories, I've found that MFP gets easier as you use it. These days, most of my recipes are already in the recipe builder, most of my favorite restaurants have my favorite meals saved under meals, and most of the foods I eat are in my recent foods list. It takes me moments to log a complex meal. I don't always weigh everything - although I do weigh calorie dense foods such as peanut butter occasionally to be sure my portions aren't creeping up. But I log everything every day, and today is my 365th day of doing that, and I intend to do it for the foreseeable future. It's actually very reassuring to know how much I've eaten and what the results will be. I can eat what I want, knowing it's within my carb and calorie budget.5 -
Rabbit1295 wrote: »MFP = MyFitnessPal
And the best thing you can do for your weight loss and your health is stop listening to all those sites, articles, blogs, etc. They try to make it complicated so you stay in the lose/gain cycle and continue to hopefully buy stuff or info so they can make $$$
Sometimes the hardest thing to accept is how simple it is. Not necessarily easy, mind you, but it really is simple. Learning to shut off all that noise is what made the difference for me.
Yep, definitely was a stupid question. Lol
I really don't listen to them too much. Especially when they try to sell something. Like I said, was just mainly curious
I went vegetarian at 19 for a number of (lousy) reasons, including—but not limited to—believing I would lose weight that way. Didn't work that way, but I did find that cutting out meat seemed to help a condition on my scalp that was never diagnosed. (Dry skin and scabs. Might've been eczema; I'd had it come and go on other body parts, and I've had fewer flare-ups with that too, could've been psoriasis, or just really bad dandruff, but it cleared up within a couple of weeks whatever it was). And I felt like I had more energy, so I kept at it. That was 26 years ago. Over that time, I've ballooned out to 254lbs and come down to 155 and been at many points in-between (and even slightly lower on my last jaunt with Weight Watchers). Bottom line: as other posters have been saying, you can lose weight as a vegetarian (or with any other diet, so long as you maintain a calorie deficit). But there's nothing magical about it. Pick a way of eating you can stick to for the long haul.1 -
Don't think it makes a difference, or at least any difference would have to do with personal sustainability.
I found meat and low fat dairy and eggs pretty helpful in weight loss (meat and low fat yogurt/cottage cheese because it is really satiating for me, and for me (not everyone) meat + veg feels like a full meal and can be super low cal). Before losing weight I ate limited meat (mostly fish), and had been vegetarian for periods of time (I'd been fat and not fat eating meat and being vegetarian).
I've recently decided to cut back on animal products again, and may cut them out (I am cutting them out for Lent). This has nothing to do with weight loss and I don't expect it will make maintenance harder for me, but I suppose it might.1 -
Rabbit1295 wrote: »I feel like the responses did answer that question, but... oh, well.
The pros and cons will be different for different people. You need to find the right way for YOU to eat - what fills you up, what tastes good to you, what gives you energy, what weighs you down, what is practical for your lifestyle, what fits with your ethics and priorities. No one can answer that for you. Sounds like bad news, but the good news is you don't have to eat food you don't like to lose weight or be healthy.
A lot of MFP veterans replied to your posts - people who have already lost their weight and are maintaining successfully. And we all have different ideals, activity levels, and lifestyles and all eat pretty different diets.
It's not really a question that I'm asking. I was only curious what people had to say. Especially when you read online and some sites say "go vegan for a healthier lifestyle!" or "why meat is destroying our bodies!" etc. I live in an area where people are vocal about what form of diet or rather lifestyle is better than the rest. (and they get very defensive as well...) I don't know. Was just looking as just trying to make conversation is all. I will always eat meat. I'm just very conscious about where my food comes from. I try to support the local farmers.
Btw..I'm probably going to sound extremely stupid for asking this but..what does MFP stand for?
Maybe it's just me, but I skimmed back over the thread, and I think everyone answered the question you literally asked, and you got responses from committed vegans, vegetarians and omnivores.
Perhaps surprisingly, they mostly agreed with each other: Food preferences or choices make no difference for weight loss, except insofar as they affect satiation, pleasure, convenience and therefore long-term sustainability. Most/all of the responders have been very successful at weight loss, so in that sense maybe it's not surprising we have some common thoughts.
Further, they all seem to feel that the same rules for good nutrition (thus health) apply to all, but with some diets making certain aspects of nutrition something one needs to pay a manageably small bit more attention to in order to achieve good balance.
If you had asked the question you say you really had, about pros and cons of various diets for health and weight loss, I'm not sure I would've even bothered to post. I'm a committed vegetarian - 43+ years, for heaven's sake - but I have no inclination to proselytize, especially not on health or weight loss grounds.
I became vegetarian out of an ethical desire to do less damage. Back in 1974, there was more famine world wide, meat production then and now consumes much more protein than it produces, and I felt like vegetarianism was a step I personally could easily take to reduce the harm my presence in the world was doing.
We in the first world, IMO, are unavoidably each little bundles of planet-wide harm. We can't, in any practical sense, "fix" that. It's not worth being constantly angst-ridden about it, either, since it's pretty unavoidable unless we stop living like a first-worlder, which would be global disaster in other ways if we all did it. But, again IMO, it's good ethics to reduce the harm we do, and it makes practical sense to pick the easier methods (which vary by individual).
I didn't much care for meat, so vegetarianism was easy for me. Other harm-reduction things would be easier for other people, maybe bicycle commuting or joining the Peace Corps or building a net zero energy house . . . I dunno, and don't care. Their problem. (I do other harm-reduction things, too, but they're not relevant here.)
Vegetarianism has cons. One has to pay a little more attention in order to get sound nutrition. It can be socially inconvenient, like handling your non-vegetarian new boss's invitation to dinner at his/her home, or negotiating a good life balance with a non-vegetarian life partner. It can make eating while traveling more difficult, especially in cultures that are more meat-centric and doubly especially those where refusing a proffered food treat can be a major affront.
So, those are the main pros and cons of vegetarianism IMO, none of which have anything to do with health or weight loss, and none of which make me think other people should become vegetarian (unless they want to).
Is that how your friends argue about the merits of their dietary choices? 10 -
May he worth a session or two with a dietician - just saying- I think food exchanges or what ever you want to call them Make a lot more sense then just counting calories if if you r not sure where to start to Figure out your macros- some insurance plans will cover the session
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Vegan and vegetarian diets are more about your morals and less about if you can lose weight. In fact, I think it's mildly insulting that anyone decides to become a vegan or vegetarian for weight loss because that's not the point of why people choose to stop eating meat or meat products.
Secondly, they aren't "healthier" it's not that simple. Animal products have naturally higher levels of protein and fat and whilst it's not impossible to get protein and fats from plants it is A LOT harder. Protein deficiency is a thing and it's not pretty.
Also, animal products have essential amino acids which are, essential to human function. Plant proteins don't have these and we're unable to produce them ourselves so you need to consume them through diet.
Of course, I'd never say don't become a vegan or vegetarian but make sure you are doing it for the right reasons AND have all of the correct information to ensure your diet provides you with everything you require.12 -
TrishSeren wrote: »Vegan and vegetarian diets are more about your morals and less about if you can lose weight. In fact, I think it's mildly insulting that anyone decides to become a vegan or vegetarian for weight loss because that's not the point of why people choose to stop eating meat or meat products.
Secondly, they aren't "healthier" it's not that simple. Animal products have naturally higher levels of protein and fat and whilst it's not impossible to get protein and fats from plants it is A LOT harder. Protein deficiency is a thing and it's not pretty.
Also, animal products have essential amino acids which are, essential to human function. Plant proteins don't have these and we're unable to produce them ourselves so you need to consume them through diet.
Of course, I'd never say don't become a vegan or vegetarian but make sure you are doing it for the right reasons AND have all of the correct information to ensure your diet provides you with everything you require.
It's not "a lot" harder to get fats and protein from plants. Fats are a total no-brainer: Nuts, seeds, avocados, olive oil, etc. Easy. Protein requires a little more thought, as does iron, calcium (for vegan or no-dairy vegetarians), B12, etc. Trust me, I have 43+ years experience as a vegetarian: You're overstating the difficulty. There is a little more attention required. If you have a reason, it's NBD.
Some plant foods have complete protein, such as soy and and quinoa. Others can be combined to get complete protein (well-rounded profile of essential amino acids).
Please be factually accurate.
I agree that people with zero ethical or taste-preference reasons shouldn't bother being vegetarian or vegan, especially not for health or weight loss. Not worth it. But good vegetarian/vegan nutrition is far from rocket science.11 -
TrishSeren wrote: »Vegan and vegetarian diets are more about your morals and less about if you can lose weight. In fact, I think it's mildly insulting that anyone decides to become a vegan or vegetarian for weight loss because that's not the point of why people choose to stop eating meat or meat products.
Secondly, they aren't "healthier" it's not that simple. Animal products have naturally higher levels of protein and fat and whilst it's not impossible to get protein and fats from plants it is A LOT harder. Protein deficiency is a thing and it's not pretty.
Also, animal products have essential amino acids which are, essential to human function. Plant proteins don't have these and we're unable to produce them ourselves so you need to consume them through diet.
Of course, I'd never say don't become a vegan or vegetarian but make sure you are doing it for the right reasons AND have all of the correct information to ensure your diet provides you with everything you require.
It's not "a lot" harder to get fats and protein from plants. Fats are a total no-brainer: Nuts, seeds, avocados, olive oil, etc. Easy. Protein requires a little more thought, as does iron, calcium (for vegan or no-dairy vegetarians), B12, etc. Trust me, I have 43+ years experience as a vegetarian: You're overstating the difficulty. There is a little more attention required. If you have a reason, it's NBD.
Some plant foods have complete protein, such as soy and and quinoa. Others can be combined to get complete protein (well-rounded profile of essential amino acids).
Please be factually accurate.
I agree that people with zero ethical or taste-preference reasons shouldn't bother being vegetarian or vegan, especially not for health or weight loss. Not worth it. But good vegetarian/vegan nutrition is far from rocket science.
Interesting, I wasn't aware that plants could provide complete amino acid requirements. I've learnt something new!
Sorry, I guess what I meant more was that people do need to be a bit more educated on how to meet their protein, iron and B12 needs when switching. Most articles don't seem to really give enough information on this.3 -
TrishSeren wrote: »TrishSeren wrote: »Vegan and vegetarian diets are more about your morals and less about if you can lose weight. In fact, I think it's mildly insulting that anyone decides to become a vegan or vegetarian for weight loss because that's not the point of why people choose to stop eating meat or meat products.
Secondly, they aren't "healthier" it's not that simple. Animal products have naturally higher levels of protein and fat and whilst it's not impossible to get protein and fats from plants it is A LOT harder. Protein deficiency is a thing and it's not pretty.
Also, animal products have essential amino acids which are, essential to human function. Plant proteins don't have these and we're unable to produce them ourselves so you need to consume them through diet.
Of course, I'd never say don't become a vegan or vegetarian but make sure you are doing it for the right reasons AND have all of the correct information to ensure your diet provides you with everything you require.
It's not "a lot" harder to get fats and protein from plants. Fats are a total no-brainer: Nuts, seeds, avocados, olive oil, etc. Easy. Protein requires a little more thought, as does iron, calcium (for vegan or no-dairy vegetarians), B12, etc. Trust me, I have 43+ years experience as a vegetarian: You're overstating the difficulty. There is a little more attention required. If you have a reason, it's NBD.
Some plant foods have complete protein, such as soy and and quinoa. Others can be combined to get complete protein (well-rounded profile of essential amino acids).
Please be factually accurate.
I agree that people with zero ethical or taste-preference reasons shouldn't bother being vegetarian or vegan, especially not for health or weight loss. Not worth it. But good vegetarian/vegan nutrition is far from rocket science.
Interesting, I wasn't aware that plants could provide complete amino acid requirements. I've learnt something new!
Sorry, I guess what I meant more was that people do need to be a bit more educated on how to meet their protein, iron and B12 needs when switching. Most articles don't seem to really give enough information on this.
Yup. 1 -
When I first joined MFP about 4 years ago I lost weight easily still eating meat and dairy. I eventually put the weight back on (my own fault) and started again cutting out meat and dairy and still losing weight. So neither have effected my weight loss (I've given up meat and dairy (except fish) for health reasons though not for ethical reasons)0
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In my opinion the "best" diet is simply choosing the foods that for you personal have you satiated when in a caloric deficit while maintaining good general nutrition. That is it. Doesn't matter if it is meat or not.
Given what I personally find satiating I think it would be silly of me to avoid meat if I wanted to lose weight...but that is me personally and I recognize that different people find different foods satiating.4 -
I lost weight eating a whole food plant based vegan diet, but it wasn't sustainable for me. I was losing weight too quickly because I wasn't eating enough, and I ended up binging on panda express after 2 months and struggling to come back from that for almost 6 months. I never felt satisfied and had cravings all of the time. It also put me back into a really bad place with food that I had worked through previously in weight loss and maintenance and it was a real big blow. I had some very disordered and unhealthy thoughts and feelings about food that set me back a bit. But, I'm now eating a balanced, omnivorous diet, and feeling much better about food and exercise and everything. I wouldn't switch to a vegetarian or vegan diet for weight loss.
You can be healthy in any diet, you can lose weight eating whatever you want as long as you're in a calorie deficit. Vegetarian and vegan diets are better suited for those with very strong ethical or health convictions, in my opinion - I had meager ethical convictions that were simply not strong enough to keep me at it. 10 years off and on vegetarian and vegan diets, and I've accepted it's just not for me. I feel much healthier where I'm at now.4 -
I wish I could go vegan but meat is like an addiction for me. And there's no rehab for meat addicts and if there was it would be over run. It would be like living with a bunch of vampires craving for blood. Probably start eating one another haha. What a scary thought1
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Wow what a great discussion, thanks!0
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I'd recommend making sure you understand what you'll eat before making any sort of diet change. There are a variety of ways to look for recipes and dishes at local restaurants you can eat with with a vegetarian or vegan diet. I personally know several people who've gotten good results from switching to a vegan and I know that one of the biggest factors that contributed to their success is cutting out dairy from their diets.5
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Rabbit1295 wrote: »Heyo! Hope everyone is well
Something I've been wondering about. What form of diet do you think is better to lose weight and maintain a healthy weight? I'm really curious about REAL (hopefully unbiased lol) testimonials. Do you have to switch diets and commit to it for the rest of my life or what?
I personally LOVE my meat and fish. Especially ocean caught fish and organic chicken. But let me know what you guys think.
I haven't read other replies, and I will get to that. To answer this question, the best diet is the one you will stick to. Some people have success completely changing their diet. Personally, this never worked for me. I needed to learn to eat what I wanted in portions that allowed me to reach my goals. Changing my mindset, made progress much less painful.
As for the healthiest content to diet, that depends on balance. Plant-based, vegan, keto, and any other diet can be healthy or unhealthy depending on the macros and micros one chooses to aim for. If you are getting everything your body needs, then it's healthy. If you are allowing treat items (whether that's cake, or booze, or anything else) to crowd out the nutrition you need (and this can happen on all types of diets as well) then it is unhealthy.1 -
Rabbit1295 wrote: »I feel like the responses did answer that question, but... oh, well.
The pros and cons will be different for different people. You need to find the right way for YOU to eat - what fills you up, what tastes good to you, what gives you energy, what weighs you down, what is practical for your lifestyle, what fits with your ethics and priorities. No one can answer that for you. Sounds like bad news, but the good news is you don't have to eat food you don't like to lose weight or be healthy.
A lot of MFP veterans replied to your posts - people who have already lost their weight and are maintaining successfully. And we all have different ideals, activity levels, and lifestyles and all eat pretty different diets.
It's not really a question that I'm asking. I was only curious what people had to say. Especially when you read online and some sites say "go vegan for a healthier lifestyle!" or "why meat is destroying our bodies!" etc. I live in an area where people are vocal about what form of diet or rather lifestyle is better than the rest. (and they get very defensive as well...) I don't know. Was just looking as just trying to make conversation is all. I will always eat meat. I'm just very conscious about where my food comes from. I try to support the local farmers.
Btw..I'm probably going to sound extremely stupid for asking this but..what does MFP stand for?
The diet industry makes millions of dollars every single year through this kind of BS marketing. Keeping people confused has been very lucrative for them. The internet has some great things going for it, but it seems that people have lost their ability to critically think when reading this stuff and they just believe everything. I think the only thing that irritates me as much as the diet industry is Dr. Google.1 -
I'd recommend making sure you understand what you'll eat before making any sort of diet change. There are a variety of ways to look for recipes and dishes at local restaurants you can eat with with a vegetarian or vegan diet. I personally know several people who've gotten good results from switching to a vegan and I know that one of the biggest factors that contributed to their success is cutting out dairy from their diets.
I'm curious: Why do you think that's so (the bolded)?
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OP: For me, it's not a diet at all. I lost 70% of my overall weight loss to date (circa 30+ lbs) whilst eating meat. I then cycled between Pescatarian. Vegan, and Vegetarian. The amount I ate was the defining factor, not that I was a meat eater or not. So it always boiled down to calories in, calories out, irrespective if I ate meat or not. Good luck on your journey.4
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