Low protein diet to reduce hanging skin?
goldthistime
Posts: 3,213 Member
Read in a blog or pseudo-sciency article recently that you should REDUCE your protein intake while on a diet so that your body will cannibalize extra skin. The photo that accompanied it was of a man who had lost weight, had good muscle development but lots of extra skin. I dismissed it as nonsense initially but later started thinking that the connection between muscle loss and protein intake is unequivocal--skin contains protein, is it really that impossible that a lower protein diet would lead to less hanging skin?
I went back to find the blurb but couldn't find it (you're not missing much). Then I went looking for studies on the topic and couldn't find anyway. All I found was another opinion piece that suggested adequate protein was necessary for skin's elasticity (so the opposite conclusion).
Has anyone come across reliable information on the relationship between protein consumption and excess skin while dieting?
I went back to find the blurb but couldn't find it (you're not missing much). Then I went looking for studies on the topic and couldn't find anyway. All I found was another opinion piece that suggested adequate protein was necessary for skin's elasticity (so the opposite conclusion).
Has anyone come across reliable information on the relationship between protein consumption and excess skin while dieting?
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Replies
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No No No...do not go low protein. I suggest you read or watch Mike Matthews podcast about it:
https://legionathletics.com/loose-skin-weight-loss/
and
Youtube: https://youtube.com/watch?v=TG_sF7PMiME
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Loose skin may or may not bounce back based on several factors. The low protein thing is not something I've ever heard of before.
Legitimate factors include - how long the skin was stretched, how far the skin was stretched, the age of the person (younger skin is more resilient) and genetics. Either way, your skin needs time to recover.7 -
I found the original website:
https://idmprogram.com/how-much-protein-is-excessive/
The author states that he has had patients lose 100lbs+ in his diet clinic but hasn't sent anyone for skin surgery. I know, I know, not exactly evidence. I'd love to see a controlled study.
@TeaBea Yes, your summary of factors affecting excess skin are those I've heard of before and believe.
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No No No...do not go low protein. I suggest you read or watch Mike Matthews podcast about it:
https://legionathletics.com/loose-skin-weight-loss/
and
Youtube: https://youtube.com/watch?v=TG_sF7PMiME
Browsed the text of the podcast. Am now googling gelatin supplements and excess skin.
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Honestly, even if low protein did help with lose skin (which I’ve never heard before but who knows), I would take the risk of loose skin over increased loss of muscle mass any day. It doesn’t even seem like a question.13
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I really know nothing about this. But I wonder, if you can’t direct which fat you want to burn, how would you be able to direct your body to burn up your excess skin rather than muscle or organs?17
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This won't work. Unlike muscle, skin gets REPRODUCED daily and is the made of the same structure as hair and nails. It's just not PROTEIN. But if you want to get rid of excess skin you could callus it up and then just cut it off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaVVO_bl3hA
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I really know nothing about this. But I wonder, if you can’t direct which fat you want to burn, how would you be able to direct your body to burn up your excess skin rather than muscle or organs?
IF there were ever evidence to support lower protein consumption to reduce hanging skin, I would have to assume that people would be instructed to maintain a high enough level to protect their organs.
Let's get specific. SAD is said to be 15% protein. Bodybuilders and dieters are generally encouraged to have much more, at least 20 or 30%. But there are definitely proponents of 10% protein. Valter Longo is one of those proponents (but in his case he argues for low protein for longevity vs the skin thing). I tried looking for criticisms of Longo and didn't find much. Surely he would meet a lot of opposition if 10% wasn't enough to protect your organs.2 -
This won't work. Unlike muscle, skin gets REPRODUCED daily and is the made of the same structure as hair and nails. It's just not PROTEIN. But if you want to get rid of excess skin you could callus it up and then just cut it off.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaVVO_bl3hA
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Between pedicures and my dermatologist cutting away precancerous stuff I shouldn't need to worry about extra skin.
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet that the article is by Dr. Jason Fung. He tends to not be well thought of by many from what I read in the forums. He's very keen on fasting. I have no opinion really. I do find Rosedale's and Longo's research interesting.5
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This won't work. Unlike muscle, skin gets REPRODUCED daily and is the made of the same structure as hair and nails. It's just not PROTEIN. But if you want to get rid of excess skin you could callus it up and then just cut it off.
Seeing how mine is on my neck, this seems like a really bad idea...
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goldthistime wrote: »I really know nothing about this. But I wonder, if you can’t direct which fat you want to burn, how would you be able to direct your body to burn up your excess skin rather than muscle or organs?
IF there were ever evidence to support lower protein consumption to reduce hanging skin, I would have to assume that people would be instructed to maintain a high enough level to protect their organs.
Let's get specific. SAD is said to be 15% protein. Bodybuilders and dieters are generally encouraged to have much more, at least 20 or 30%. But there are definitely proponents of 10% protein. Valter Longo is one of those proponents (but in his case he argues for low protein for longevity vs the skin thing). I tried looking for criticisms of Longo and didn't find much. Surely he would meet a lot of opposition if 10% wasn't enough to protect your organs.
Mon
I am sure the 10% would be welcome news to many vegans. I, on the otherhand would not be as concerned about the impact low protein would have on my muscles and organs as much as I would be concerned about being hungry all the time.0 -
I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet that the article is by Dr. Jason Fung. He tends to not be well thought of by many from what I read in the forums. He's very keen on fasting. I have no opinion really. I do find Rosedale's and Longo's research interesting.
Not surprised. And I was equally not surprised when I clicked the link, read through the article and rolled my eyes so hard I gave myself a brain scan from all the woo Fung vomited in that article. Oh Gawd. Just when I thought he couldn't possibly be any further off base, he went and proved me wrong again. You'd think an M.D. would know at least a little bit about actual physiology.7 -
I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet that the article is by Dr. Jason Fung. He tends to not be well thought of by many from what I read in the forums. He's very keen on fasting. I have no opinion really. I do find Rosedale's and Longo's research interesting.
Not surprised. And I was equally not surprised when I clicked the link, read through the article and rolled my eyes so hard I gave myself a brain scan from all the woo Fung vomited in that article. Oh Gawd. Just when I thought he couldn't possibly be any further off base, he went and proved me wrong again. You'd think an M.D. would know at least a little bit about actual physiology.
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Well, not the same thing but I did just read that fuji apples help with the outer layer of the skin.8
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if your skin has been stretched out too much for too long, the bottom line is you're gonna have to have it removed or deal with looking like you're draped in skin curtains for the rest of your life. Cut protein and you'll cannibalize your muscle too making it even worse.7
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It is genetics that will determin the amount your skin will recover after weight loss.
However, one has to wonder, since both collagen and elastin are proteins and affect skin's elasticity, which would give one's genetic disposition, with regards to skin, the best chance of recovery.
I would be inclined not to go for a low protein option.
Cheers, h.6 -
goldthistime wrote: »Read in a blog or pseudo-sciency article recently that you should REDUCE your protein intake while on a diet so that your body will cannibalize extra skin. The photo that accompanied it was of a man who had lost weight, had good muscle development but lots of extra skin. I dismissed it as nonsense initially but later started thinking that the connection between muscle loss and protein intake is unequivocal--skin contains protein, is it really that impossible that a lower protein diet would lead to less hanging skin?
I went back to find the blurb but couldn't find it (you're not missing much). Then I went looking for studies on the topic and couldn't find anyway. All I found was another opinion piece that suggested adequate protein was necessary for skin's elasticity (so the opposite conclusion).
Has anyone come across reliable information on the relationship between protein consumption and excess skin while dieting?
My own observation from people who waterfast is, they do seem to eat their own protein or skin, namely life long scar tissues would disappear during fast.
Which leads me to believe if that can happen, it's likely the body can feed on extra sagging skin to supplement the lack of protein.
I don't condone waterfast in, I just came across it on a YouTube video that happened to be trending months ago.7 -
Saggy skin comes down to
1. Speed of loss
2. Amount of loss
3. Genetics
4. Time some skin sag will firm up in time
5.(not sure) I have heard hydration so staying well hydrated is supposed to make for more elastic skin. I am not sure if fact or woo. However staying well hydrated has many other health benefits so might be a small additional plus.0 -
After a certain age skin loses elasticity and the ability to "bounce back".
The solution at that point is surgery or gaining lots of muscle.0 -
I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet that the article is by Dr. Jason Fung. He tends to not be well thought of by many from what I read in the forums. He's very keen on fasting. I have no opinion really. I do find Rosedale's and Longo's research interesting.
This post got wooed. Is this woo for Dr Fung (which I would agree with) or for finding Longo's work interesting? If it's for Valter Longo, I'd be happy to digress into the IGF/longevity thing. It's been on my mind a lot lately.
I am perplexed by the Longo's advice to crossover at age 65 to higher protein levels. Firstly, I think it takes away from the strength of his argument that low protein in your 40s and 50s leads to a longer life, and secondly, even if I were to believe it without question, surely I don't switch over on my 65th birthday. Not to mention that I wonder how much strength and vigour (as well as ease in maintaining a lower weight), I'm willing to sacrifice for 5 or 10 lingering years of life?
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well, i think going low protein for a while to see if it works isn't a bad idea. i read going low protein also helps your liver to heal itself. don't know if it's true or not. i don't see the harm in trying it out. it's the only way you will know if it works or not. i find it easy to put muscle on personally when i want to, so giving up a little for a while in order to shed some loose skin doesn't sound like that much of a sacrifice. @goldthistime12
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet that the article is by Dr. Jason Fung. He tends to not be well thought of by many from what I read in the forums. He's very keen on fasting. I have no opinion really. I do find Rosedale's and Longo's research interesting.
Not surprised. And I was equally not surprised when I clicked the link, read through the article and rolled my eyes so hard I gave myself a brain scan from all the woo Fung vomited in that article. Oh Gawd. Just when I thought he couldn't possibly be any further off base, he went and proved me wrong again. You'd think an M.D. would know at least a little bit about actual physiology.
I don't disagree. I did the same inner eye roll, plus I didn't like his baffle them with trivia style. So why am I giving his idea attention? Because I wanted to bring it to this forum for cross examination. I think @ninerbuff is the only one to have brought up an argument/evidence yet that disputes the idea directly. I have to get Wiki to help me understand skin better, but the fact that the outer layers of skin slough off and are made of the same materials as skin and hair doesn't on its own convince me there's no protein in the inner layers, and thus no chance low protein diets could lead to less hanging skin.
As to the argument that you're worse off with no muscle development, it depends. What if someone were to eat lower protein until they lost their weight, (and hypothetically maximized skin loss), and then at maintenance switched to recomp, including a higher protein diet?
Going to reiterate here that it's a BIG hypothetical. Right now I'm considering increasing my protein from the equivalent of 20% to 30%. I'm totally sold on the satiety and skeletal muscle development arguments, just wanted to look at arguments against before I take the plunge.
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I lost 45 pounds in 2016. I had some loose skin from that (not as much as people who lose more weight, of course). I have been a vegetarian for nearly 25 years and eat a very high carb, relatively low fat and low protein diet. It is now 2018 and I still have some loose skin (have basically maintained my weight loss in that I still fit in my size 2 pants, though of course there are fluctuations from week to week).
I also had a giant fibroid (16cm diameter) and had an open hysterectomy last year, so about 3 pounds of tissue was removed from a single, small-ish spot in my lower abdomen. I also have loose skin from that. The muscles have mostly healed (I can do crunches and planks, anyway) but that loose skin is taking its sweet time going away as well.
So just from personal experience, I really don't believe a lower protein diet helps with this issue.3 -
If you think about it, when you go from morbidly obese to ideal weight, there has to be a considerable amount of skin loss.
your face, body, arms all shrink as you're in a deficit and the body not only feeds on the fat and muscle but the skin itself cause where the heck did all the skin shrink or go to if not into our blood stream for enerrgy, Just like the principle that fat you first put on is the last to go and hard to lose, the same principle seems to be at work here in regards to skin.3 -
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alicebhsia wrote: »well, i think going low protein for a while to see if it works isn't a bad idea. i read going low protein also helps your liver to heal itself. don't know if it's true or not. i don't see the harm in trying it out. it's the only way you will know if it works or not. i find it easy to put muscle on personally when i want to, so giving up a little for a while in order to shed some loose skin doesn't sound like that much of a sacrifice. @goldthistime
Eek! Apologies. I'm just trying to explore the idea, not promote it. My uneducated advice, that I shouldn't dispense but will anyway, would be to go no lower than 20% (as I did). It was MFPs default when I signed up (is it still anyone know?). Your first priority should be making this process easier on yourself, and protein will help with that.0 -
Someone had mentioned earlier about the maintaining muscle mass in face of perhaps not enough protein.
Could you be selective in what is not built back up (since it's not a matter of breaking it down for protein to use, but rather just not building it back up).
Organs are used daily, and only going to have an issue in cases of starving, muscle will be lost before organs, body isn't stupid about what keeps it alive.
Use it. We know that, just use it.
Don't have time to look up the studies, but several have shown that decent deficit with adequate, not even extra protein, and lifting, will keep the muscle mass (LBM goes down of course still). The all about CICO thread was not a great amount of protein by OP.
Since the skin is broken down daily as muscle is, actually as a structure I recall more frequently, that need to build it back up isn't there, in the face of limited protein.
And it does take protein too, despite comment it's not, just not the same density as muscle.
So in theory I'd be interested in some studies of it.1 -
Poor nutrition, to look cuter? Sure, bound to be totally worth it. Speculatively, even.3
This discussion has been closed.
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