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Do you think obese/overweight people should pay more for health insurance?
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Cynthia1066 wrote: »No. I happen to believe that EVERYONE regardless of health, personal habits, income, or age should have access to basic healthcare. We need a single payer system like other civilized countries. If anything, barring the obese (or the old, poor, unemployed) from medical attention costs our country more in terms of lost productivity. Not to mention the humanitarian concerns. Look, it's hard enough to be fat. Why punish people further?
What is BASIC health care? The potential cost of services provided by an ACA health plan could be tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on the person's issues.3 -
hold on. I'm one of the ones here advocating for higher premiums for the obese. This isn't a "you" vs "they" argument. I AM they. I AM obese. My parents ARE obese. Most of my family IS obese.
This is about math and risk. Not about profits. I don't give a *kitten* about health insurer profits.
But increasing premiums for the morbidly obese would lower premiums for people with a healthy weight. This would also encourage people to lose weight, thus lowering health care expenses across the economy.
There are plenty of people in the health care industry making a FORTUNE on obesity, and the fact that insurance has to eat it when it comes to people making poor life choices.
So no, this isn't YOU vs THEY. This is reality vs mindless idealism.
I know you want to try and frame this as "fat people did nothing wrong," but that's naive. The percentage of overweight people whose weight is due to things outside their immediate control, is minuscule in comparison to the number of people who have just had a lifetime of *kitten* choices around diet and exercise.
People like me, who got fat because they made bad decisions, shouldn't get to free ride on the backs of people who made good decisions and gain sympathy or "benefit of the doubt" on the backs of people who have legitimate issues that caused their weight problems.
As for 'fat people did nothing.' I don't believe that. I just believe that WE don't know what the situation is for someone else. And I honestly don't know that the majority of people ARE actually doing it due to bad choices, or if it's the other way around. I have no idealistic view on this subject, honestly. I just know there can be many reasons for obesity.
"Although there are genetic, behavioral and hormonal influences on body weight, obesity occurs when you take in more calories than you burn through exercise and normal daily activities. Your body stores these excess calories as fat.
Obesity can sometimes be traced to a medical cause, such as Prader-Willi syndrome, Cushing's syndrome, and other diseases and conditions. However, these disorders are rare and, in general, the principal causes of obesity are:
Inactivity. If you're not very active, you don't burn as many calories. With a sedentary lifestyle, you can easily take in more calories every day than you use through exercise and normal daily activities.
Unhealthy diet and eating habits. Weight gain is inevitable if you regularly eat more calories than you burn. And most Americans' diets are too high in calories and are full of fast food and high-calorie beverages."
Source:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/obesity/basics/causes/con-20014834
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So do people just not want to penalize individual people by charging them more than the group for insurance? Because at some point, everyone who causes more medical expenses will result in the company they work for being charged more for insurance. At that point, they're being charged more irrespective of how overweight people got that way.1
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I do not agree with charging more for being overweight. Where does that end and why only obese people? What about alcoholics and drug seekers/users? What about anorexics and other eating disorders, why don't they pay more too then? Not to mention the logistics would be a nightmare, at what point are you weighed and what happens when you yo-yo up and down in weight going over and under the threshold? Then there are the numerous exceptions you would have to consider. I have had back surgery twice, I could claim it keeps from being active (and for many people this does). This would create a really big mess for an already stressed health care system.0
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I do not agree with charging more for being overweight. Where does that end and why only obese people? What about alcoholics and drug seekers/users? What about anorexics and other eating disorders, why don't they pay more too then? Not to mention the logistics would be a nightmare, at what point are you weighed and what happens when you yo-yo up and down in weight going over and under the threshold? Then there are the numerous exceptions you would have to consider. I have had back surgery twice, I could claim it keeps from being active (and for many people this does). This would create a really big mess for an already stressed health care system.
Eating more calories than you burn causes one to be overweight. Claiming one gained weight due to an orthopedic operation preventing them from being active is really fooling themselves.
If you can't move as much, eat less. Problem solved.
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MonaLisaLianne wrote: »Right... so you won't mind being one of those who waits for 4 years for a hip replacement, I assume.
Don't confuse the VA system with single payer. No one on medicare has to wait 4 years for a hip replacement.
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In theory, the idea behind charging more for obesity/smoking is to provide an incentive for the person to change something that can be changed. That could be applied even in a single payer kind of system.
In a free insurance market (which we don't have in the US, it's called insurance but doesn't work as insurance), all risk factors would lead to higher prices based on underwriting (or in many cases denial of coverage). For obvious reasons we don't do that (and we have Medicare for old people in large part because of the problems with the insurance model for health care).1 -
MonaLisaLianne wrote: »Right... so you won't mind being one of those who waits for 4 years for a hip replacement, I assume.
Don't confuse the VA system with single payer. No one on medicare has to wait 4 years for a hip replacement.
While I don't approve of single payer, I do agree with this statement. VA issues are about the provider of the medical services, not who is paying for them.1 -
I do not agree with charging more for being overweight. Where does that end and why only obese people? What about alcoholics and drug seekers/users? What about anorexics and other eating disorders, why don't they pay more too then? Not to mention the logistics would be a nightmare, at what point are you weighed and what happens when you yo-yo up and down in weight going over and under the threshold? Then there are the numerous exceptions you would have to consider. I have had back surgery twice, I could claim it keeps from being active (and for many people this does). This would create a really big mess for an already stressed health care system.
What about being charged more for auto insurance because of a bad driving record? Or having a car popular among car theives? In my mind, these are very similar circumstances.4 -
I can appreciate when the right candidates get approved for bypass surgery, however I'm more concerned about the co-workers I have heard talking about LYING on the questionaire just to get approved. Supposedly there are questions that when answered the right way make you a much better candidate for the surgery. Sad. The girl could never get control over her eating and lied to get approved. Gained it all back. So hard on the body to do that too. Surgeries are very expensive and include hospital stays, meds, follow-ups, etc and add to insurance rates going up. Again, I support the right people getting it, not just everybody who is sure it's a quick fix.0
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It'd be great if it were framed, as some companies/insurance do, as those who are healthier get discounts and incentives. Goals motivate people more than penalties, and it can hard to self-motivate off principles alone, especially because of how easily our biology caves to modern advertising. And yes, as a fit, active vegan who pays a ton of attention to my health and how my diet impacts the environment, I believe there should be rewards for this. We must reform our broken health care and food systems to be based around proper nutrition, exercise, and disease prevention! Money would go to organic farmers and well-trained nutritionists, and otherwise stay in people's pockets, instead of Big Pharmaceuticals and the junk food industry; the environment would be back on the upswing, and people would be happy, healthy, productive, and looking up to proper role models.3
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I think we should have Medicare for All, and I think that there should be a flat tax % for that health care, and that people who fall within a healthy weight range should get a tax credit for being in that healthy range. That way it doesn't punish overweight/obese people strictly speaking, but does reward those that are healthy. Underweight people would not be able to get this tax credit, either. There could be ranges of tax credit, like obese class II pay the full %, obese class I receive a small tax credit, overweight get a greater tax credit, healthy pay the least with the greatest tax credit, underweight pay the same as overweight, etc. Mandatory yearly physicals if you want to receive any tax credit because that is proof of BMI/weight category.1
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Yes, the same for smokers, extreme sports, etc. It seems logic from the logistics of health insurance.
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Assigning premiums based on lifestyle choices that can change at any time for any reason sounds like a pretty big overhead expense to me... and overhead costs are ultimately absorbed by consumers anyway. Sounds like a waste of time and money, but what do I know...1
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Assigning premiums based on lifestyle choices that can change at any time for any reason sounds like a pretty big overhead expense to me... and overhead costs are ultimately absorbed by consumers anyway. Sounds like a waste of time and money, but what do I know...
I think a mandatory yearly physical should be put in place, and at that time the doctor can calculate your BMI, which you would then submit as part of your taxes in return for a tax credit if you are in a healthy BMI range or no tax credit (or at least a reduced tax credit) if you are in an unhealthy range.1 -
JMcGee2018 wrote: »Assigning premiums based on lifestyle choices that can change at any time for any reason sounds like a pretty big overhead expense to me... and overhead costs are ultimately absorbed by consumers anyway. Sounds like a waste of time and money, but what do I know...
I think a mandatory yearly physical should be put in place, and at that time the doctor can calculate your BMI, which you would then submit as part of your taxes in return for a tax credit if you are in a healthy BMI range or no tax credit (or at least a reduced tax credit) if you are in an unhealthy range.
Wishful thinking. The government in the US is limiting tax credits and tax deductions and do you think that Congress will change the tax code again to accommodate for incentives for a healthy BMI? I think NOT!
Besides, we all know that BMI is a relative measure of fitness. A very fit person doing a lot of exercise and developing a nice muscular physic will weigh more and have a higher BMI that somebody leaner but probably not so healthy. So the ripped guy will pay more while the not so healthy one will be rewarded with a tax refund, credit or what ever? Not a good idea.2 -
>Build muscleJMcGee2018 wrote: »I think a mandatory yearly physical should be put in place, and at that time the doctor can calculate your BMI
>Score high BMI
>Be forced to pay more
Haha, no thanks.
Especially when 6'4 at 155 is considered healthy and 6'4 at 205 is considered overweight.4 -
Only if you make everyone else who has any 'condition' pay more. ...0
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Absolutely not. I know people who are over weight but eat well and exercise. The problem? Health issues. One had their thyroid removed. Another has ongoing hormonal issues that Still haven't been diagnoised fully(cause still unknown). Another has cfs and Wishes they could lift, swim and horseback ride again but can barely stand up without nearly passing out. I had problems with overeating/disordered eating until this summer. Reason? Weirdly enough, ADHD. Never felt "hungry" a day in my life. Medication made it possible for me to curb the insane constant never ending cravings, actually know what hunger was and loose 30 pounds in six months by tweeking my diet. Nobody gets obese Just Cause, there's often an underlying medical or mental health issues at play. Also social issues, like food deserts and terrible food being cheaper than good food. I'd rather support continuing to educate and helping people get to the point where I am. I want my friend to be able to afford the expensive diagnoistics needed to help them. Support research into the stuff that hurts people the most. Obesity is a social issue, not a personal failing. To continue to label it as personal when the majority of overweight people are struggling, fails them as well as the rest of us.7
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JMcGee2018 wrote: »Assigning premiums based on lifestyle choices that can change at any time for any reason sounds like a pretty big overhead expense to me... and overhead costs are ultimately absorbed by consumers anyway. Sounds like a waste of time and money, but what do I know...
I think a mandatory yearly physical should be put in place, and at that time the doctor can calculate your BMI, which you would then submit as part of your taxes in return for a tax credit if you are in a healthy BMI range or no tax credit (or at least a reduced tax credit) if you are in an unhealthy range.
Wishful thinking. The government in the US is limiting tax credits and tax deductions and do you think that Congress will change the tax code again to accommodate for incentives for a healthy BMI? I think NOT!
Besides, we all know that BMI is a relative measure of fitness. A very fit person doing a lot of exercise and developing a nice muscular physic will weigh more and have a higher BMI that somebody leaner but probably not so healthy. So the ripped guy will pay more while the not so healthy one will be rewarded with a tax refund, credit or what ever? Not a good idea.
I am not advocating for a BMI-based tax credit system, but it's likely that the very fit person who has developed a muscular physique and the leaner person who is not so healthy will both fall into the healthy BMI range. BMI being thrown off my muscle is only an issue for more serious bodybuilders, not people who are just fit and developing muscle.1
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