How do I talk my Mom off the "Sugar is Toxic" ledge?
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Strongerxthanxyesterday wrote: »Fruits are absolutely complex carbs.
Sorry but no. Though lots of bloggers will say they are so they can explain why table sugar is bad but fruits are good.
Complex carbs are made up of chains of sugar molecules, like whole grains and veggies.
Simple carbs are made up of one or two sugar molecules, like fruit, milk, and table sugar.13 -
I agree fruits are good.1
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kshama2001 wrote: »Mom keeps seeing these types of articles in the Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/guides/smarterliving/how-to-stop-eating-sugar
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html
She also has a book on brain health with the same attitude. (I don't know the title off hand.)
I've started by asking her how many grams of added sugar she consumes per day. (I already know the answer is a lot less than the average American. For starters, she doesn't drink sweetened beverages.)
Now, I'd need more than "Lustig is a quack" or "Taubes is a quack." I'd need something reputable debunking their theories. (Not random blog posts.)
I've read here a lot that our bodies don't know the difference between sugar from fruit and sugar from added sugar - are there reputable sources for this?
BTW, she's not trying to lose weight and in fact struggles to stay above Underweight because she is very very active, especially for her age (80).
TIA
You can't, she's too fixated, you can throw all the right argument and throw link from websites, she will refuse it. It's like me saying to my mom that dr Oz is a snake oil salesmen. She will defend his reputation, there's nothing I can say to her that will change her mind.5 -
stevencloser wrote: »vermilionflower wrote: »Fructose separated from the fruit is just like eating any other sugar, but that's completely different than eating fruit where the fructose is not separated. Straight sugar has zero nutrition, there's no healthy amount because it isn't nutritious.kshama2001 wrote: »Mom keeps seeing these types of articles in the Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/guides/smarterliving/how-to-stop-eating-sugar
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html
She also has a book on brain health with the same attitude. (I don't know the title off hand.)
I've started by asking her how many grams of added sugar she consumes per day. (I already know the answer is a lot less than the average American. For starters, she doesn't drink sweetened beverages.)
Now, I'd need more than "Lustig is a quack" or "Taubes is a quack." I'd need something reputable debunking their theories. (Not random blog posts.)
I've read here a lot that our bodies don't know the difference between sugar from fruit and sugar from added sugar - are there reputable sources for this?
BTW, she's not trying to lose weight and in fact struggles to stay above Underweight because she is very very active, especially for her age (80).
TIA
On fruit, fruit has vitamins/bioflavnoids/minerals and some fiber, than does refined sugar. Sugar are empty calories, devoid of healthy nutrients except for carbs.
You guys DO know that there's a minimum amount of calories your body needs, right? If you were only eating the nutrients your body needs, the essential fats and proteins, and carbs only from the most nutritious, green vegetables for their minerals and vitamins... you'd starve to death eventually because that's something like 800 calories.
I'm betting the guy in your profile picture doesn't get most of the calories he needs above the 800 you mention that are needed for minimum nutrition from foods with a lot of added sugar.
Nothing wrong with added sugars. The WHO and several other respected organizations provide guidelines on the amount of added sugars in a healthy diet.
Personally I try to stay about that level overall, but will splurge on occasion.7 -
stevencloser wrote: »JMcGee2018 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »vermilionflower wrote: »Fructose separated from the fruit is just like eating any other sugar, but that's completely different than eating fruit where the fructose is not separated. Straight sugar has zero nutrition, there's no healthy amount because it isn't nutritious.kshama2001 wrote: »Mom keeps seeing these types of articles in the Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/guides/smarterliving/how-to-stop-eating-sugar
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html
She also has a book on brain health with the same attitude. (I don't know the title off hand.)
I've started by asking her how many grams of added sugar she consumes per day. (I already know the answer is a lot less than the average American. For starters, she doesn't drink sweetened beverages.)
Now, I'd need more than "Lustig is a quack" or "Taubes is a quack." I'd need something reputable debunking their theories. (Not random blog posts.)
I've read here a lot that our bodies don't know the difference between sugar from fruit and sugar from added sugar - are there reputable sources for this?
BTW, she's not trying to lose weight and in fact struggles to stay above Underweight because she is very very active, especially for her age (80).
TIA
On fruit, fruit has vitamins/bioflavnoids/minerals and some fiber, than does refined sugar. Sugar are empty calories, devoid of healthy nutrients except for carbs.
You guys DO know that there's a minimum amount of calories your body needs, right? If you were only eating the nutrients your body needs, the essential fats and proteins, and carbs only from the most nutritious, green vegetables for their minerals and vitamins... you'd starve to death eventually because that's something like 800 calories.
But there's no reason to be getting those calories from simple sugars. Complex carbs, protein, and healthy fats are all better ways to meet those caloric needs than bags of skittles, although both options will do the job of keeping you alive.
Agree. Fruits are considered complex carbs. Do you agree that eating a few fruits can serve the purpose?
As for Skittles, might be fuel for Marshawn Lynch to go Beastmode. Or for aiding someone having a hypoglycemic episode. I limit my "sugar" intake, and limit high glycemic index foods.
Fruits are not complex carbs. And what is the reason for eating more protein and more fats after you've already met your needs? Just your subjective opinion that sugars are bad for you?
Just eating enough of something to meet your calorie needs, probably.0 -
TynaBaby17 wrote: »
That is not what your quoted article says - it says there MAY be some correlation between high consumption of soft drinks (sugar source) and obesity, but there is no directly established connection between the two. The real cause of obesity is over-consumption of CALORIES from any source, and obesity leads to heart disease and other problems.
As to the addictive nature of sugar - again, nope. They are trying to say that sugar is addictive because it lights up the dopamine receptors in the brain, the problem with trying to make that correlation is that ANY pleasurable activity causes the same response.
I agree with Aaron's take on the matter - is this really a battle that you want to take on with your 80 year old mom?
Yes obesity is caused by over consumption of calories of any kind, but obesity in America is not being caused by the over consumption of calories from vegetables or protein. But added sugar is becoming a large portion of average calorie consumption; soft drinks, white flour bread, pasta, fast food. Sugar is a simple carb, these carbs are converted directly to energy and the excess energy is then stored as fat. Because there is so much added sugar there is almost always a excess of energy and thus the excess fat. The added sugar also causes insulin spikes in our blood, and with a more and more constant spike of insulin due to the large amounts of sugar ingested by the average American, this damages the lining of our blood vessels which causes inflammation and circulatory/heart illnesses. I am not arguing added sugar is the ONLY cause of obesity, I am arguing it is a leading cause of the obesity epidemic in America.
The addictiveness of sugar is not just demonstrated by the dopamine response which IS found in pleasurable experiences, but more significantly in the opiod receptor response. By definition of addictive it leads to compulsory behavior despite knowing about its (likely unhealthy) consequences, like weigh gain, diabetes, hormone changes and fatigue because there is an initial pleasure response, and the opiod responses found in the rats are more specifically similar to the responses from opiod drugs.
Wrong people are overweight because they eat too much protein, too much carbs and too much fats.... People don't binge just on candies, people binge on food like pizza, donuts, chicken wings, muffins (basically food with high carbs, high fats and most important of all high calories) or simply eat food with big portions on food they think it's healthy but have no clue about CICO (example peanuts, avocado, olive oil, salads with high caloric sauces etc...) . Blaming carbs for obesity is a poor argument that usually comes from ketovangelists who love to put the blame on carbs in order to promote their diet or lifestyle.
I was able to lose 20 pounds on my last cut while eating over 200g of carbs and doing no cardio....just lifting. As long as you follow your calories intake, eating carbs doesn't do *kitten* all in body composition....but boy do they help me thrive at the gym.14 -
Well, call me the bride of Satan then!24
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estherdragonbat wrote: »Well, call me the bride of Satan then!
Satan lover!6 -
I think I know the book. Grain Brain? I'm reading it and it has some very interesting theories that make sense for someone of her age to be thinking about. It specifically says that excessive sugar causes damage to the brain. I would suggest borrowing the book to see what kind of information she's absorbing so that you can approach the situation with something concrete.8
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brightresolve wrote: »Brain health is a concern for a lot of older people. As a 61 year old, both of whose parents suffered from very late life dementia, I understand.
I also think sweets are quite possibly one of the best arguments for wishing to stay on the planet longer.
Watching this thread with interest
Oh and 80? I saw my mom changing her opinions, striving, becoming a more open and even more loving person, until alzheimer's stole her in her mid 90's. Hope I can do the same.
Her brother just replied to our email chain with a similar sentiment as the bolded so hopefully that will help
My grandfather had Alzheimer's so I understand her concern about brain health. I keep reminding her that he was a drinker and smoker, and she is not, (and has never been.)2 -
I say if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
If she is healthy and what she is doing is working just fine then just leave it alone.
In these cases I believe you shouldn’t try to push your beliefs on others. Just let it be. Sometimes you just have to let people do what they want.
However, if it is hurting her then by all means try and change her mind. Just make sure it’s a change that will actually help.6 -
starryphoenix wrote: »I say if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
If she is healthy and what she is doing is working just fine then just leave it alone.
In these cases I believe you shouldn’t try to push your beliefs on others. Just let it be.
Did you read the thread? She's worried her mother isn't eating enough at 80, because she's very active.4 -
snowflake954 wrote: »starryphoenix wrote: »I say if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
If she is healthy and what she is doing is working just fine then just leave it alone.
In these cases I believe you shouldn’t try to push your beliefs on others. Just let it be.
Did you read the thread? She's worried her mother isn't eating enough at 80, because she's very active.
Right! And she's adding unnecessary stress to her life by obsessing about her sugar intake.
Eta the mother is adding stress to her own life5 -
snowflake954 wrote: »starryphoenix wrote: »I say if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
If she is healthy and what she is doing is working just fine then just leave it alone.
In these cases I believe you shouldn’t try to push your beliefs on others. Just let it be.
Did you read the thread? She's worried her mother isn't eating enough at 80, because she's very active.
Right! And she's adding unnecessary stress to her life by obsessing about her sugar intake.
Eta the mother is adding stress to her own life
Yes - all of this. Elderly parents, and their children, have enough to worry about. They shouldn't have the woo peddlers trying to convince them that they have grain brain or wheat belly or whatever the kitten else these charlatans are peddling.
The part that kills me with my FIL is that I've tried to show him some peer reviewed science debunking Taubes and Fung and the latest things he's read - but he dismisses them outright saying that scientists get funding and therefore you can't trust them. Unlike, you know, the guy whose book you purchased - he's not profiting at all from all this. UGH.
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Strongerxthanxyesterday wrote: »Carbs are the devil.
Sigh. Are you trolling?
There are plenty of threads where this debate has been undertaken time and again. OP is looking for some guidance on how to help her elderly mother maintain a healthy lifestyle - both physically and mentally healthy - for her remaining years. Statements like "carbs are the devil" or "sugar is the devil" doesn't really help accomplish that- does it? I mean, do you really think that a person shouldn't eat fruits and vegetables? They are the devil? Talk about sensationalism and fear mongering...12 -
I think it would help to clarify your goals. If I were in your shoes I don't think I could steer an eighty year old mother in any direction at all. My grandmother died of a fast acting bone cancer, and she refused transfusions near the end because she was afraid of contracting "Aids". I did not have the heart to tell her that the cancer would take her too quickly to worry about Aids or Hepatitis. But hey, if she doesn't want a transfusion, no matter how illogical, why contradict her? She left us on her own terms.
Besides, at that age, they deserve to do whatever they want. Walk the dog in a ratty pink housecoat? Go for it.
If she doesn't know that natural fruits are full of the toxins she's worrying about, don't enlighten her.
If you are worried about her weight, there's nuts.
If you think it is time she developed her critical thinking skills beyond the New York Times, good luck. Maybe pick a research paper referenced in the newspaper and read the results together.
What I might try is sitting down and watching Little Miss Sunshine together. Have a good laugh, and use it as a conversation starter for end of life questions.
5 -
Has she talked to her doctor about these ideas? It's absolutely possible for older folks to develop eating disorders. My 94 year old grandpa became convinced that he needed to lose a lot of weight, and so he ate almost nothing--a half slice of bread, a tiny glass of milk, a bag of popcorn. Fortunately, a talk with his doctor helped. He still has...quirky...eating habits, but at least he's eating enough.
In his case, and perhaps in your mom's case, there are other mental health concerns affecting his dietary choices. He tends to become depressed and dwell a lot on the fact that most people he knew are dead. I think that his food choices were related to the anxiety and depression that he feels. I struggled with depression in my 20s and I sometimes wouldn't eat foods that I thought were "bad" because I was afraid they would make me die sooner. I can only imagine that older people who have anxiety or depression might develop the same fear.
If she is willing to talk to her doctor, I think that they might be able to address her nutritional concerns as well as any mental health concerns that might be making her feel this way.9 -
I haven't got much value to add, except for this...
My friend / coworker used to eat VERY clean and organic. She used to often tease me about the food I was eating, telling me that I shouldn't eat processed foods, donuts, coffee, treats etc. She gave me links to articles about how sugar is toxic and I'd give her links to articles that debunked that.
It was a funny game we'd play at least once a week.
We lost our dear friend to pancreatic cancer this January, within 3 months of diagnosis. (gawd, I miss you, Julia)
Life is a crap shoot. You can do it all 'right' and die way too early... And do it all 'wrong' and live past 100.
So for me... I'm aiming for healthy-ish and happy. For me, that means pizza, burgers, bacon, donuts, coffee, treats... And sugar.
We're not getting out of this alive, anyways. Might as well have some fun doing it.
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JMcGee2018 wrote: »JMcGee2018 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »vermilionflower wrote: »Fructose separated from the fruit is just like eating any other sugar, but that's completely different than eating fruit where the fructose is not separated. Straight sugar has zero nutrition, there's no healthy amount because it isn't nutritious.kshama2001 wrote: »Mom keeps seeing these types of articles in the Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/guides/smarterliving/how-to-stop-eating-sugar
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html
She also has a book on brain health with the same attitude. (I don't know the title off hand.)
I've started by asking her how many grams of added sugar she consumes per day. (I already know the answer is a lot less than the average American. For starters, she doesn't drink sweetened beverages.)
Now, I'd need more than "Lustig is a quack" or "Taubes is a quack." I'd need something reputable debunking their theories. (Not random blog posts.)
I've read here a lot that our bodies don't know the difference between sugar from fruit and sugar from added sugar - are there reputable sources for this?
BTW, she's not trying to lose weight and in fact struggles to stay above Underweight because she is very very active, especially for her age (80).
TIA
On fruit, fruit has vitamins/bioflavnoids/minerals and some fiber, than does refined sugar. Sugar are empty calories, devoid of healthy nutrients except for carbs.
You guys DO know that there's a minimum amount of calories your body needs, right? If you were only eating the nutrients your body needs, the essential fats and proteins, and carbs only from the most nutritious, green vegetables for their minerals and vitamins... you'd starve to death eventually because that's something like 800 calories.
But there's no reason to be getting those calories from simple sugars. Complex carbs, protein, and healthy fats are all better ways to meet those caloric needs than bags of skittles, although both options will do the job of keeping you alive.
Agree. Fruits are considered complex carbs. Do you agree that eating a few fruits can serve the purpose?
As for Skittles, might be fuel for Marshawn Lynch to go Beastmode. Or for aiding someone having a hypoglycemic episode. I limit my "sugar" intake, and limit high glycemic index foods.
What purpose? Fruits typically don't have that many calories (100-200), so they might not be the best way to raise caloric intake and prevent someone from being underweight, but they are a great way to get vitamins and satisfy a sweet tooth.
Exactly. I usually have 2-3 fruits a day. Veggies I am working at increasing (never been a fan, but since they are good for me I know to include some veggies.)
And as for the rest of my carb intake, it is usually things like whole grain breads, brown rice, double fiber english muffins, steamed potatoes, beans, chilis.
As for fats/oils, I usually use extra virgin cold pressed olive oil.
My proteins come from meats, poultry/eggs, fish, cheese, Greek yogurt.
I have found out from my workouts in the pool, that I need to be eating complex carbs along with the other macros, or I will "bonk". So I eat about 2 hrs before my workouts. I drink fluids throughout my workout also.
And after a tough longer swim, I may eat a protein bar along with fluids for rehydration.
This is what works for me right now. I let MFP app help guide my food choices/intake.
Everybody is different though, and each person using mfp needs to find a healthy way to make MFP app work for them.2
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