How do I talk my Mom off the "Sugar is Toxic" ledge?
Replies
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Chunkahlunkah wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Hi all - sorry I wasn't clear. I don't want Mom to make ANY changes - I want her to stop worrying about sugar. She eats very healthily, but has been worrying about her (almost non-existent) sugar consumption.
Is she worrying about it to a level that's causing her major distress? Can she raise her calories while still harboring her "sugar is toxic" belief?
Everyone needs a hobby. I think, in a way, that it's a positive that as an 80 year old she has a topic that keeps her engaged and learning (even if the material she's learning isn't 100% correct).
you can raise your calories on any type of diet plan. for low carb type diets and low sugar diets you just need to eat something like pecans (home made nut butters with coconut oil or mct oils) and avocados.8 -
xhunter561 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Mom keeps seeing these types of articles in the Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/guides/smarterliving/how-to-stop-eating-sugar
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html
She also has a book on brain health with the same attitude. (I don't know the title off hand.)
I've started by asking her how many grams of added sugar she consumes per day. (I already know the answer is a lot less than the average American. For starters, she doesn't drink sweetened beverages.)
Now, I'd need more than "Lustig is a quack" or "Taubes is a quack." I'd need something reputable debunking their theories. (Not random blog posts.)
I've read here a lot that our bodies don't know the difference between sugar from fruit and sugar from added sugar - are there reputable sources for this?
BTW, she's not trying to lose weight and in fact struggles to stay above Underweight because she is very very active, especially for her age (80).
TIA
for most people sugar is really toxic and can cause a number of health problems from inflammation, headaches, bad sugar drops, ect. for others not so much it just depends on your body, age, genetics, processed or unprocessed, how often its being consumed, and over all reason on eating it (as well as a lot more factors). But some people seem to thrive on it and if your not really seeing or feeling any ill health problems it probably doesn't mean you need to worry too much on it. but if she wants to try low to no sugar let her see if it works for herself, if it doesn't work for her she will stop and if she thrives she will be better off for it so i would be happy for her if she is feeling well, only a monster would want someone to go back eating something that is causing someone else ill. only worry if health problems start showing up.
What most people would benefit more from is removing sugar that is not from something like a fruit or veggie. (if you don't medically need to avoid it in general). basically processed sugars added to 'sweeten' stuff up is what is not overly good sense its also just empty calories not in accusation with nutrients. these added sugars also have a bad habit of causing a bad spike of blood sugar that tends to drop too fast at times making a person hungry within a few hours after foods.
it's better to talk around than to go off these 'studies' as most medical food related 'studies' don't take into consider other factors that pays into health and most studies in general are funded by someone selling something. especially the ones demonizing fats or carbs. For health its petty much just go off what your body is telling you and taking out what is causing you problems by isolation periods of certain items.
But let her try it and let her see how her body responds to it. If you don't want to listen to her just don't listen to her but let her work on her own body sense she is the one living in it. But if she struggles with weight and doesn't use carbs suggest home made nut butters like pecan. basically pecans and coconut oil. or just Fat bombs from something like coconut oil mixed with other simple items. Though if she is fat adapted she can use a little bit of carbs to spike insulin enough for it to start putting a little fat back on, done every so often its fine.
I'm shaking my head in wonder how Mom, who:
1) has always eaten a healthy diet
2) read a couple of articles regarding sugar and
3) is contemplating reducing sugar
Has turned into:
1) making fat bombs
2) being fat adapted and
3) eating a few carbs to spike her insulin.
What?10 -
xhunter561 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Mom keeps seeing these types of articles in the Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/guides/smarterliving/how-to-stop-eating-sugar
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html
She also has a book on brain health with the same attitude. (I don't know the title off hand.)
I've started by asking her how many grams of added sugar she consumes per day. (I already know the answer is a lot less than the average American. For starters, she doesn't drink sweetened beverages.)
Now, I'd need more than "Lustig is a quack" or "Taubes is a quack." I'd need something reputable debunking their theories. (Not random blog posts.)
I've read here a lot that our bodies don't know the difference between sugar from fruit and sugar from added sugar - are there reputable sources for this?
BTW, she's not trying to lose weight and in fact struggles to stay above Underweight because she is very very active, especially for her age (80).
TIA
for most people sugar is really toxic and can cause a number of health problems from inflammation, headaches, bad sugar drops, ect. for others not so much it just depends on your body, age, genetics, processed or unprocessed, how often its being consumed, and over all reason on eating it (as well as a lot more factors). But some people seem to thrive on it and if your not really seeing or feeling any ill health problems it probably doesn't mean you need to worry too much on it. but if she wants to try low to no sugar let her see if it works for herself, if it doesn't work for her she will stop and if she thrives she will be better off for it so i would be happy for her if she is feeling well, only a monster would want someone to go back eating something that is causing someone else ill. only worry if health problems start showing up.
What most people would benefit more from is removing sugar that is not from something like a fruit or veggie. (if you don't medically need to avoid it in general). basically processed sugars added to 'sweeten' stuff up is what is not overly good sense its also just empty calories not in accusation with nutrients. these added sugars also have a bad habit of causing a bad spike of blood sugar that tends to drop too fast at times making a person hungry within a few hours after foods.
it's better to talk around than to go off these 'studies' as most medical food related 'studies' don't take into consider other factors that pays into health and most studies in general are funded by someone selling something. especially the ones demonizing fats or carbs. For health its petty much just go off what your body is telling you and taking out what is causing you problems by isolation periods of certain items.
But let her try it and let her see how her body responds to it. If you don't want to listen to her just don't listen to her but let her work on her own body sense she is the one living in it. But if she struggles with weight and doesn't use carbs suggest home made nut butters like pecan. basically pecans and coconut oil. or just Fat bombs from something like coconut oil mixed with other simple items. Though if she is fat adapted she can use a little bit of carbs to spike insulin enough for it to start putting a little fat back on, done every so often its fine.
All sugar is from a fruit or veggie. The white powdery stuff you get in a bag? Made by making sugar beet tea and boiling it until all the water evaporates.13 -
xhunter561 wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »for most people sugar is really toxic and can cause a number of health problems from inflammation, headaches, bad sugar drops, ect. for others not so much it just depends on your body, age, genetics, processed or unprocessed, how often its being consumed, and over all reason on eating it (as well as a lot more factors).
The bold is an outright falsehood, peddled by pseudoscientific quacks like Taubes, Lustig and Fung. Sugar is not "toxic" by any legitimate definition of the word.
when i eat carbs or simple carbs i Do have these side affects so no its not false.
They poison you and you have to go to a hospital for an antidote?
Also n=1 is not the same as n=all, and the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'. For somebody who has a peanut allergy, eating peanuts can be fatal. That doesn't mean peanuts are "toxic" or that nobody should eat peanuts.
As far as processed vs. unprocessed, it makes no difference to the body. Sugar is sugar and it's metabolized the same way.
we are going to have to agree to disagree i suppose. toxic is anything that causes ill to a person and should be used with caution or avoided for those that do have problems with the thing in question.29 -
xhunter561 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Mom keeps seeing these types of articles in the Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/guides/smarterliving/how-to-stop-eating-sugar
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html
She also has a book on brain health with the same attitude. (I don't know the title off hand.)
I've started by asking her how many grams of added sugar she consumes per day. (I already know the answer is a lot less than the average American. For starters, she doesn't drink sweetened beverages.)
Now, I'd need more than "Lustig is a quack" or "Taubes is a quack." I'd need something reputable debunking their theories. (Not random blog posts.)
I've read here a lot that our bodies don't know the difference between sugar from fruit and sugar from added sugar - are there reputable sources for this?
BTW, she's not trying to lose weight and in fact struggles to stay above Underweight because she is very very active, especially for her age (80).
TIA
for most people sugar is really toxic and can cause a number of health problems from inflammation, headaches, bad sugar drops, ect. for others not so much it just depends on your body, age, genetics, processed or unprocessed, how often its being consumed, and over all reason on eating it (as well as a lot more factors). But some people seem to thrive on it and if your not really seeing or feeling any ill health problems it probably doesn't mean you need to worry too much on it. but if she wants to try low to no sugar let her see if it works for herself, if it doesn't work for her she will stop and if she thrives she will be better off for it so i would be happy for her if she is feeling well, only a monster would want someone to go back eating something that is causing someone else ill. only worry if health problems start showing up.
What most people would benefit more from is removing sugar that is not from something like a fruit or veggie. (if you don't medically need to avoid it in general). basically processed sugars added to 'sweeten' stuff up is what is not overly good sense its also just empty calories not in accusation with nutrients. these added sugars also have a bad habit of causing a bad spike of blood sugar that tends to drop too fast at times making a person hungry within a few hours after foods.
it's better to talk around than to go off these 'studies' as most medical food related 'studies' don't take into consider other factors that pays into health and most studies in general are funded by someone selling something. especially the ones demonizing fats or carbs. For health its petty much just go off what your body is telling you and taking out what is causing you problems by isolation periods of certain items.
But let her try it and let her see how her body responds to it. If you don't want to listen to her just don't listen to her but let her work on her own body sense she is the one living in it. But if she struggles with weight and doesn't use carbs suggest home made nut butters like pecan. basically pecans and coconut oil. or just Fat bombs from something like coconut oil mixed with other simple items. Though if she is fat adapted she can use a little bit of carbs to spike insulin enough for it to start putting a little fat back on, done every so often its fine.
I'm shaking my head in wonder how Mom, who:
1) has always eaten a healthy diet
2) read a couple of articles regarding sugar and
3) is contemplating reducing sugar
Has turned into:
1) making fat bombs
2) being fat adapted and
3) eating a few carbs to spike her insulin.
What?
if she is contemplating reducing sugars then evidently there is a reason. people that eat healthy for them selves really don't bother changing their diets unless they are testing a diet. healthy is a very subjective thing as what is healthy for one person might not be as healthy for another. its just that simple and for the second part if i am getting your question is the whole thing of having a hard time staying at a healthy weight (not falling bellow) from a flexible diet stance for someone that wants to stay away from sugars, or at lest the empty sugars ( processed stuff). Carbs seem to spike insulin really well and used right it can help you produce more insulin naturally without a shot.18 -
stevencloser wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Mom keeps seeing these types of articles in the Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/guides/smarterliving/how-to-stop-eating-sugar
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html
She also has a book on brain health with the same attitude. (I don't know the title off hand.)
I've started by asking her how many grams of added sugar she consumes per day. (I already know the answer is a lot less than the average American. For starters, she doesn't drink sweetened beverages.)
Now, I'd need more than "Lustig is a quack" or "Taubes is a quack." I'd need something reputable debunking their theories. (Not random blog posts.)
I've read here a lot that our bodies don't know the difference between sugar from fruit and sugar from added sugar - are there reputable sources for this?
BTW, she's not trying to lose weight and in fact struggles to stay above Underweight because she is very very active, especially for her age (80).
TIA
for most people sugar is really toxic and can cause a number of health problems from inflammation, headaches, bad sugar drops, ect. for others not so much it just depends on your body, age, genetics, processed or unprocessed, how often its being consumed, and over all reason on eating it (as well as a lot more factors). But some people seem to thrive on it and if your not really seeing or feeling any ill health problems it probably doesn't mean you need to worry too much on it. but if she wants to try low to no sugar let her see if it works for herself, if it doesn't work for her she will stop and if she thrives she will be better off for it so i would be happy for her if she is feeling well, only a monster would want someone to go back eating something that is causing someone else ill. only worry if health problems start showing up.
What most people would benefit more from is removing sugar that is not from something like a fruit or veggie. (if you don't medically need to avoid it in general). basically processed sugars added to 'sweeten' stuff up is what is not overly good sense its also just empty calories not in accusation with nutrients. these added sugars also have a bad habit of causing a bad spike of blood sugar that tends to drop too fast at times making a person hungry within a few hours after foods.
it's better to talk around than to go off these 'studies' as most medical food related 'studies' don't take into consider other factors that pays into health and most studies in general are funded by someone selling something. especially the ones demonizing fats or carbs. For health its petty much just go off what your body is telling you and taking out what is causing you problems by isolation periods of certain items.
But let her try it and let her see how her body responds to it. If you don't want to listen to her just don't listen to her but let her work on her own body sense she is the one living in it. But if she struggles with weight and doesn't use carbs suggest home made nut butters like pecan. basically pecans and coconut oil. or just Fat bombs from something like coconut oil mixed with other simple items. Though if she is fat adapted she can use a little bit of carbs to spike insulin enough for it to start putting a little fat back on, done every so often its fine.
All sugar is from a fruit or veggie. The white powdery stuff you get in a bag? Made by making sugar beet tea and boiling it until all the water evaporates.
yes but the white stuff in bags have had all nutrition stripped from it as well as the fiber from the plant its taken from. sugar cane and sugar beets. its just processed empty calories lacking in nutrition in comparison to just nibbling on the actual plant it came from.18 -
xhunter561 wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »for most people sugar is really toxic and can cause a number of health problems from inflammation, headaches, bad sugar drops, ect. for others not so much it just depends on your body, age, genetics, processed or unprocessed, how often its being consumed, and over all reason on eating it (as well as a lot more factors).
The bold is an outright falsehood, peddled by pseudoscientific quacks like Taubes, Lustig and Fung. Sugar is not "toxic" by any legitimate definition of the word.
when i eat carbs or simple carbs i Do have these side affects so no its not false.
They poison you and you have to go to a hospital for an antidote?
Also n=1 is not the same as n=all, and the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'. For somebody who has a peanut allergy, eating peanuts can be fatal. That doesn't mean peanuts are "toxic" or that nobody should eat peanuts.
As far as processed vs. unprocessed, it makes no difference to the body. Sugar is sugar and it's metabolized the same way.
we are going to have to agree to disagree i suppose. toxic is anything that causes ill to a person and should be used with caution or avoided for those that do have problems with the thing in question.
Unfortunately, that's how misinformation gets started - when people decide to make up their own definitions that don't match what the real definition of something is.
So if I decide that I want to call my car a bicycle, then tell everybody that riding a bicycle 100 miles back and forth to work every day doesn't burn many calories or increase my fitness, I'm not being very helpful to anybody.22 -
xhunter561 wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »for most people sugar is really toxic and can cause a number of health problems from inflammation, headaches, bad sugar drops, ect. for others not so much it just depends on your body, age, genetics, processed or unprocessed, how often its being consumed, and over all reason on eating it (as well as a lot more factors).
The bold is an outright falsehood, peddled by pseudoscientific quacks like Taubes, Lustig and Fung. Sugar is not "toxic" by any legitimate definition of the word.
when i eat carbs or simple carbs i Do have these side affects so no its not false.
They poison you and you have to go to a hospital for an antidote?
Also n=1 is not the same as n=all, and the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'. For somebody who has a peanut allergy, eating peanuts can be fatal. That doesn't mean peanuts are "toxic" or that nobody should eat peanuts.
As far as processed vs. unprocessed, it makes no difference to the body. Sugar is sugar and it's metabolized the same way.
we are going to have to agree to disagree i suppose. toxic is anything that causes ill to a person and should be used with caution or avoided for those that do have problems with the thing in question.
Unfortunately, that's how misinformation gets started - when people decide to make up their own definitions that don't match what the real definition of something is.
So if I decide that I want to call my car a bicycle, then tell everybody that riding a bicycle 100 miles back and forth to work every day doesn't burn many calories or increase my fitness, I'm not being very helpful to anybody.
in any case if your getting a very bad side affect from something then for simple terms. and yes i have landed in the hospital from eating way too many carbs before because of severe responses with the headaches and just pain in general. Before cutting the simple carbs i was almost drove to suicide to get away from the pain i was constantly in so yes i'm going to say its really toxic for me to consume too many simple carbs. if you want to call that misinformation then you can call it that.18 -
kshama2001 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »OP's mom is not eating lots of sugar, that's kind of the point, so that's a sidetrack.
OP, are you worried she's getting so stressed she's not able to eat enough, or just that she's unnecessarily stressed? Is she getting concerned about added sugar and thinking she eats more than she really does? Maybe focusing on something like the WHO guidelines and their own explanation or the US Dietary guidelines or MyPlate, which are phrased pretty reasonably, would be helpful.
Yes, I will bring up the WHO guidelines, but anticipate she will counter that those are for reducing obesity, not preventing Alzheimer's.
I am both worried that 1. she will end up not eating enough and 2. that she is unnecessarily stressed, because she is already a very healthy eater.
She has since clarified that it's not just added sugar she wants to cut down on, but sugar from fruits, etc. I will let her know that berries are lower sugar fruits.
I know that you got this, so I am saying it for others who seemed to have missed this:
* She never ate a lot of added sugar to start with, so reducing sugar will necessarily come out of healthy foods like fruits.
* And this is new, so I'm not trying to change an 80 year old set in her ways, but someone recently succumbing to the current sugar alarmism, which is not applicable to her natural healthy eating habits.
She has been reading "that there is a connection between sugar and insulin resistance and brain cells and Alzheimer's". Her goal is to get down to 25 g sugar total (total meaning including naturally occurring sugars.)
She dropped into Underweight when she was following the suggestions in Dropping Acid: The Reflux Diet Cookbook & Cure. This did help her silent reflux - she no longer sounds like she has hairballs all the time. I think she went all out for a while and then pruned it back to just a few suggestions.
She will probably do the same thing with the sugar thing - jump on this bandwagon full force for a while, and then taper off to something more reasonable.
Maybe I am stressing more than she is
I don't have anything helpful to add, but I'm kind of in awe of how many people believe they know your mother better than you do. I hope everything works out for the two of you and you can both stop stressing soon :flowerforyou:15 -
Maybe your mother will like this article from the New York Times. A woman nearly dies from Scurvy from eliminating all fruit from her diet.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/magazine/a-painful-bruise-wouldnt-heal-it-took-several-hospital-visits-to-discover-why.html?referer=https://www.google.ca/7 -
Maybe your mother will like this article from the New York Times. A woman nearly dies from Scurvy from eliminating all fruit from her diet.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/magazine/a-painful-bruise-wouldnt-heal-it-took-several-hospital-visits-to-discover-why.html?referer=https://www.google.ca/
you do realize there* are more things out their that have vitamins and minerals right? fruit might have nutrition but your not going to die unless your not eating another source of vitamins and minerals. scurvy is really easy to prevent she would have had to have been eating the worst diet to catch it. a person can thrive really well off of just veggies and meats, organ meats not just muscle meats as muscle meat really doesn't have as much in micro-nutrition.28 -
You didn’t read the article did you?10
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Just nod, say ah ha... and as you walk away, roll your eyes each to their own, let her have her own notions, you do you 4
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You didn’t read the article did you?
"A woman nearly dies from Scurvy from eliminating all fruit from her diet." this is what i am referring to. i am replying on the bases that you seem to think that eliminating all fruit = Scurvy. I am assuming that just cause the doctors seemed to think it was from the article was ok though but they could get to the point faster more than having so much filler words.
a first sign she wasn't eating much nutrition or varied nutrition was the statement that she seemed to be pledge with so much ill health and due to that her body could not heal. that was on her for not doing some research before cutting fruits because if you don't have another food that can back the nutrition your screwed either way. simply eating a little raw liver every so often even if its once a week could have supplemented the v- c she needed. but if not from that she could have supplemented if she had to. You always need to keep your vitamins and minerals in consideration when removing a food group. that's why i like MFP because it gives a good indication on where your at when it comes to the vitamins and minerals.19 -
This is why we can't have nice things
@kshama2001 I hope your mom moves past this and stays healthy and active, and I'm glad you are willing to talk honestly with her about her health and habits. Good luck!9 -
xhunter561 wrote: »You didn’t read the article did you?
"A woman nearly dies from Scurvy from eliminating all fruit from her diet." this is what i am referring to. i am replying on the bases that you seem to think that eliminating all fruit = Scurvy. I am assuming that just cause the doctors seemed to think it was from the article was ok though but they could get to the point faster more than having so much filler words.
a first sign she wasn't eating much nutrition or varied nutrition was the statement that she seemed to be pledge with so much ill health and due to that her body could not heal. that was on her for not doing some research before cutting fruits because if you don't have another food that can back the nutrition your screwed either way. simply eating a little raw liver every so often even if its once a week could have supplemented the v- c she needed. but if not from that she could have supplemented if she had to. You always need to keep your vitamins and minerals in consideration when removing a food group. that's why i like MFP because it gives a good indication on where your at when it comes to the vitamins and minerals.
What are you doing? This isn’t about you. I’m sorry @kshama2001 Having elderly parents is sometimes tough. Hugs11 -
This is why we can't have nice things
@kshama2001 I hope your mom moves past this and stays healthy and active, and I'm glad you are willing to talk honestly with her about her health and habits. Good luck!
you can have nice things you just have to work around problems as needed. don't feel bad over it.
12 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »You didn’t read the article did you?
"A woman nearly dies from Scurvy from eliminating all fruit from her diet." this is what i am referring to. i am replying on the bases that you seem to think that eliminating all fruit = Scurvy. I am assuming that just cause the doctors seemed to think it was from the article was ok though but they could get to the point faster more than having so much filler words.
a first sign she wasn't eating much nutrition or varied nutrition was the statement that she seemed to be pledge with so much ill health and due to that her body could not heal. that was on her for not doing some research before cutting fruits because if you don't have another food that can back the nutrition your screwed either way. simply eating a little raw liver every so often even if its once a week could have supplemented the v- c she needed. but if not from that she could have supplemented if she had to. You always need to keep your vitamins and minerals in consideration when removing a food group. that's why i like MFP because it gives a good indication on where your at when it comes to the vitamins and minerals.
What are you doing? This isn’t about you. I’m sorry @kshama2001 Having elderly parents is sometimes tough. Hugs
? i was talking about her reply based on her article she showed.1 -
xhunter561 wrote: »You didn’t read the article did you?
"A woman nearly dies from Scurvy from eliminating all fruit from her diet." this is what i am referring to. i am replying on the bases that you seem to think that eliminating all fruit = Scurvy. I am assuming that just cause the doctors seemed to think it was from the article was ok though but they could get to the point faster more than having so much filler words.
a first sign she wasn't eating much nutrition or varied nutrition was the statement that she seemed to be pledge with so much ill health and due to that her body could not heal. that was on her for not doing some research before cutting fruits because if you don't have another food that can back the nutrition your screwed either way. simply eating a little raw liver every so often even if its once a week could have supplemented the v- c she needed. but if not from that she could have supplemented if she had to. You always need to keep your vitamins and minerals in consideration when removing a food group. that's why i like MFP because it gives a good indication on where your at when it comes to the vitamins and minerals.
Did you read the OP?
OP's mom is worried about eating sugar because of some articles she read, and she wants to provide her with some articles with a different point of view so she can see all sides. @jgnata supplied one such article. She wasn't posting the article as some possible universal truth that needs to be argued.
This thread isn't about sugar toxicity, or scurvy, or your relationship with carbs. It's about an underweight, elderly woman who is stressed out by media reporting on sugar and contemplating further restricting her diet. We are talking about a real actual person and her real actual mother who she is worried about.23 -
xhunter561 wrote: »You didn’t read the article did you?
"A woman nearly dies from Scurvy from eliminating all fruit from her diet." this is what i am referring to. i am replying on the bases that you seem to think that eliminating all fruit = Scurvy. I am assuming that just cause the doctors seemed to think it was from the article was ok though but they could get to the point faster more than having so much filler words.
a first sign she wasn't eating much nutrition or varied nutrition was the statement that she seemed to be pledge with so much ill health and due to that her body could not heal. that was on her for not doing some research before cutting fruits because if you don't have another food that can back the nutrition your screwed either way. simply eating a little raw liver every so often even if its once a week could have supplemented the v- c she needed. but if not from that she could have supplemented if she had to. You always need to keep your vitamins and minerals in consideration when removing a food group. that's why i like MFP because it gives a good indication on where your at when it comes to the vitamins and minerals.
Did you read the OP?
OP's mom is worried about eating sugar because of some articles she read, and she wants to provide her with some articles with a different point of view so she can see all sides. @jgnata supplied one such article. She wasn't posting the article as some possible universal truth that needs to be argued.
This thread isn't about sugar toxicity, or scurvy, or your relationship with carbs. It's about an underweight, elderly woman who is stressed out by media reporting on sugar and contemplating further restricting her diet. We are talking about a real actual person and her real actual mother who she is worried about.
that is why you don't worry about the media's articles i know she is stressed out but their really is no reason to stress it. i offered suggestions for if she was going to try it without sugar. i only used my example as the bases its toxic to some, not all. it was meant only as that. but the artificial really wasn't much of another look at it because it's not so much as a sugar thing but a vitamin lacking thing.17 -
xhunter561 wrote: »You didn’t read the article did you?
"A woman nearly dies from Scurvy from eliminating all fruit from her diet." this is what i am referring to. i am replying on the bases that you seem to think that eliminating all fruit = Scurvy. I am assuming that just cause the doctors seemed to think it was from the article was ok though but they could get to the point faster more than having so much filler words.
a first sign she wasn't eating much nutrition or varied nutrition was the statement that she seemed to be pledge with so much ill health and due to that her body could not heal. that was on her for not doing some research before cutting fruits because if you don't have another food that can back the nutrition your screwed either way. simply eating a little raw liver every so often even if its once a week could have supplemented the v- c she needed. but if not from that she could have supplemented if she had to. You always need to keep your vitamins and minerals in consideration when removing a food group. that's why i like MFP because it gives a good indication on where your at when it comes to the vitamins and minerals.
Are you suggesting it would be more responsible to convince her mother to eat raw liver than it would be to get her to relax and eat a little fruit?13 -
diannethegeek wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »You didn’t read the article did you?
"A woman nearly dies from Scurvy from eliminating all fruit from her diet." this is what i am referring to. i am replying on the bases that you seem to think that eliminating all fruit = Scurvy. I am assuming that just cause the doctors seemed to think it was from the article was ok though but they could get to the point faster more than having so much filler words.
a first sign she wasn't eating much nutrition or varied nutrition was the statement that she seemed to be pledge with so much ill health and due to that her body could not heal. that was on her for not doing some research before cutting fruits because if you don't have another food that can back the nutrition your screwed either way. simply eating a little raw liver every so often even if its once a week could have supplemented the v- c she needed. but if not from that she could have supplemented if she had to. You always need to keep your vitamins and minerals in consideration when removing a food group. that's why i like MFP because it gives a good indication on where your at when it comes to the vitamins and minerals.
Are you suggesting it would be more responsible to convince her mother to eat raw liver than it would be to get her to relax and eat a little fruit?
Add some fava beans and a nice Chianti and we're all good.15 -
diannethegeek wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »You didn’t read the article did you?
"A woman nearly dies from Scurvy from eliminating all fruit from her diet." this is what i am referring to. i am replying on the bases that you seem to think that eliminating all fruit = Scurvy. I am assuming that just cause the doctors seemed to think it was from the article was ok though but they could get to the point faster more than having so much filler words.
a first sign she wasn't eating much nutrition or varied nutrition was the statement that she seemed to be pledge with so much ill health and due to that her body could not heal. that was on her for not doing some research before cutting fruits because if you don't have another food that can back the nutrition your screwed either way. simply eating a little raw liver every so often even if its once a week could have supplemented the v- c she needed. but if not from that she could have supplemented if she had to. You always need to keep your vitamins and minerals in consideration when removing a food group. that's why i like MFP because it gives a good indication on where your at when it comes to the vitamins and minerals.
Are you suggesting it would be more responsible to convince her mother to eat raw liver than it would be to get her to relax and eat a little fruit?
if you could not convince her to eat fruit. a Plan B if she scared of fruit or sugars or legit can't have something within the given fruit. people who have been worked into a fear of certain foods for medical or not might find it helpful just to have advice on alternatives until they are ready to give a go back to certain foods. the thing is like with the original woman in question they read articles (likely funded by some organization that would profit from people fearing fats/carbs/proteins) and freak out just like the 'studies' on all fats cause all problems as previous believed.
People fall victim to this stuff all the time and really should not view either as evil or cause to all health problems. There are good carbs and fats as there as some bad ones out there. Watching people fall for these articles are sad but as long as she doesn't go over board she should be fine to test reduced sugars for a wile.
i am trying to help kshama2001 relax and giving her suggestions on stuff she can offer her mother to keep her from getting ill while trying low sugar until her mom makes up her mind on what she wants to do for her health. you don't want another woman like the one in this article. I love when people try new things so they learn what works for them and what doesn't but that doesn't mean kshama should be fearful the whole time. she can work around her mothers problem by giving good suggestion to her mom for the time being. chances are if her mother decides its not of much use to her then she will relax on her own as the phobia reduces.10 -
xhunter561 wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »for most people sugar is really toxic and can cause a number of health problems from inflammation, headaches, bad sugar drops, ect. for others not so much it just depends on your body, age, genetics, processed or unprocessed, how often its being consumed, and over all reason on eating it (as well as a lot more factors).
The bold is an outright falsehood, peddled by pseudoscientific quacks like Taubes, Lustig and Fung. Sugar is not "toxic" by any legitimate definition of the word.
when i eat carbs or simple carbs i Do have these side affects so no its not false.
They poison you and you have to go to a hospital for an antidote?
Also n=1 is not the same as n=all, and the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'. For somebody who has a peanut allergy, eating peanuts can be fatal. That doesn't mean peanuts are "toxic" or that nobody should eat peanuts.
As far as processed vs. unprocessed, it makes no difference to the body. Sugar is sugar and it's metabolized the same way.
we are going to have to agree to disagree i suppose. toxic is anything that causes ill to a person and should be used with caution or avoided for those that do have problems with the thing in question.
Unfortunately, that's how misinformation gets started - when people decide to make up their own definitions that don't match what the real definition of something is.
So if I decide that I want to call my car a bicycle, then tell everybody that riding a bicycle 100 miles back and forth to work every day doesn't burn many calories or increase my fitness, I'm not being very helpful to anybody.
in any case if your getting a very bad side affect from something then for simple terms. and yes i have landed in the hospital from eating way too many carbs before because of severe responses with the headaches and just pain in general. Before cutting the simple carbs i was almost drove to suicide to get away from the pain i was constantly in so yes i'm going to say its really toxic for me to consume too many simple carbs. if you want to call that misinformation then you can call it that.
What was your medical diagnosis that resulted from the overconsumption of too many simple carbs, and exactly how many of what simple carbs were you consuming, just out of curiosity?11 -
WinoGelato wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »for most people sugar is really toxic and can cause a number of health problems from inflammation, headaches, bad sugar drops, ect. for others not so much it just depends on your body, age, genetics, processed or unprocessed, how often its being consumed, and over all reason on eating it (as well as a lot more factors).
The bold is an outright falsehood, peddled by pseudoscientific quacks like Taubes, Lustig and Fung. Sugar is not "toxic" by any legitimate definition of the word.
when i eat carbs or simple carbs i Do have these side affects so no its not false.
They poison you and you have to go to a hospital for an antidote?
Also n=1 is not the same as n=all, and the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'. For somebody who has a peanut allergy, eating peanuts can be fatal. That doesn't mean peanuts are "toxic" or that nobody should eat peanuts.
As far as processed vs. unprocessed, it makes no difference to the body. Sugar is sugar and it's metabolized the same way.
we are going to have to agree to disagree i suppose. toxic is anything that causes ill to a person and should be used with caution or avoided for those that do have problems with the thing in question.
Unfortunately, that's how misinformation gets started - when people decide to make up their own definitions that don't match what the real definition of something is.
So if I decide that I want to call my car a bicycle, then tell everybody that riding a bicycle 100 miles back and forth to work every day doesn't burn many calories or increase my fitness, I'm not being very helpful to anybody.
in any case if your getting a very bad side affect from something then for simple terms. and yes i have landed in the hospital from eating way too many carbs before because of severe responses with the headaches and just pain in general. Before cutting the simple carbs i was almost drove to suicide to get away from the pain i was constantly in so yes i'm going to say its really toxic for me to consume too many simple carbs. if you want to call that misinformation then you can call it that.
What was your medical diagnosis that resulted from the overconsumption of too many simple carbs, and exactly how many of what simple carbs were you consuming, just out of curiosity?
the first time i really don't know but i was doing pretty much a lot of pastas, breads, fruits. each time they mainly thought just raked it down to just bad migraines or some slight allergy they just gave me hydroxyzine for the 'itching' and trazodone for the lack of restlessness due to the pain but that was close to the end. but i pretty much had been trying different diets to see what works or what i thought would work, all plant based, all fruit, ect. fallowing the my plate diagram and stupid articles like what most people fall victim to. but that was for weight loss because i was starting to become where i couldn't pass tape so i mainly just started looking into ways on nutrition. about 2016 some time i came across keto and did that for a wile and found as i stayed away from 'simple carb' foods i seemed to have far less pain. the few times i had cheated i had pain and bad migraines return so i now pretty much stick to lower carb/ lower glycemic foods with higher nutrition value than the simple carb foods. i am mainly just doing a flexible diet but still studying the heck out of nutrition to see if i can personally apply it to my diet to make sure i can work around having to cut simple carb foods as well as dextrose from my diet. if i was trying to replicate it again i figured out about over 30 g simple carbs, the vast majority of fruits trigger them badly, would cause a lot of the symptoms to return. sometimes going out on a stressful longer run than normal helps it a little but not by much but i don't know if that actually has anything to do with it.
but i pretty much lost faith in the doctors when the only thing they could do was push pill at me and not actually help get rid of the problem. granted the hydroxyzine helped a little but not by much but it's not really their place to give nutrition sense they really don't get much information on nutrition themselves. so i really can't blame them. but there just something about simple carbs take triggers these problems.
but the important thing for kshama to understand is that its not always the case but it does seem to happen for some reason. This is rare and a good reason to keep the simple carbs in check or at lest be mindful but it's not a always. But even if she can just direct her mother to people who do no sugar challenge or something like that just to settle her mind on it she should be fine. Your not going to drop dead from reducing simple carb or even fats to a extent as long as your given good information and getting your nutrition in another form. Only time you need to worry is if she starts getting ill and having side affects and in that case a intervention would be needed. Chances are if her mother did fine on carbs she might go back if shes really worried that much over it but i say let her mom try something new but keep a eye on her. your never too old to try something new as long as you know how to back away from what's not working for you and most people that develop problems normally do that's why you see so many 'diet fail' videos out there. All of those might be 'fails' but they do give helpful ideas.9 -
She’s 80 and lean, but not underweight. I’d say she’s got it figured out and let her be.5
-
This is why we can't have nice things
@kshama2001 I hope your mom moves past this and stays healthy and active, and I'm glad you are willing to talk honestly with her about her health and habits. Good luck!
Yup, this.
Amazing how many people didn't read what kshama actually wrote.3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »This is why we can't have nice things
@kshama2001 I hope your mom moves past this and stays healthy and active, and I'm glad you are willing to talk honestly with her about her health and habits. Good luck!
Yup, this.
Amazing how many people didn't read what kshama actually wrote.
I swear to God all it takes is the word "sugar" in a thread title to make people think the OP is an invitation to platform their own agendas regardless of the actual topic.16 -
She’s 80 and lean, but not underweight. I’d say she’s got it figured out and let her be.
Good point. She most likely buried many of her high school peers 15-20 years ago who died of complications associated with excess weight.
OP, I would just encourage her to eat enough calories to maintain a reasonable weight. There may be a bit of vanity involved. My 88 YO MIL says she wants to get rid of her belly. She's not happy with her appearance. She is not overweight and the "belly" is most likely due to several abdominal surgeries years ago when the techniques weren't quite as good.
She isn't really working very hard to get rid of her "belly" but it gives her something to think about.0 -
She’s 80 and lean, but not underweight. I’d say she’s got it figured out and let her be.
Actually, OP said her mom struggles to stay above underweight and in a subsequent post said she actually became underweight the last time she jumped on a health fad bandwagon.
But other posters seem to think they know this woman's situation better than her daughter does, so I guess we might as well assert she is the correct weight for her situation while we're at it.11
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