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Why do people deny CICO ?
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You have 34 posts, and I'm pretty confident at least 10 of them are in debate threads complaining about the bad advice we give
While I get your point, I'm not sure post count has any reliable relationship with the quality of posts.
People with high post counts can provide really bad information, while those with low counts can provide good information.
Not sure what citing post count does to advance an argument. Seems more like a logical fallacy to cite post count.20 -
There's a common case I can think of off the top of my head where hormones play a significant enough role in weight loss to mention and that's post-partum. Every time it comes up on the forums, including a post on the front page now, these regular posters who give such monolithic advice are quick to note that new mothers need to give their bodies some time to relax and heal.6
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tbright1965 wrote: »
You have 34 posts, and I'm pretty confident at least 10 of them are in debate threads complaining about the bad advice we give
While I get your point, I'm not sure post count has any reliable relationship with the quality of posts.
People with high post counts can provide really bad information, while those with low counts can provide good information.
Not sure what citing post count does to advance an argument. Seems more like a logical fallacy to cite post count.
A previous poster said that she wished people who complain about the advice we give, would spend some time volunteering their own wisdom in threads rather than just complaining about us. Her response, which I quoted, was "I do". I would think the number of posts she has is incredibly relevant to that assertion. If she was volunteering time offering advice to others, she would have more than 34 posts. But I get it, it's fun to just pop into a 30 page thread and criticize someone.
It's a lot easier to say "You're doing it wrong" than to try to do it yourself. I suppose this would be a better community if we all just stopped posting these CICO related responses and just let all the newbies debate whether ACV or Hydroxycut are the best way to lose weight.23 -
L1zardQueen wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Sure it has. It’s not common. It’s probably quite rare. Has it been reported? Yes. See Table 2 for Patient details. Truth is there is significant inter-individual variation in the extent of adaptive thermogenesis relative to the energy deficit.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.2217/17460875.2.6.651?needAccess=true
A study on 2 whole people, huh?
I think you might need to reread the article.
The article shares details about the case studies of three people -- two men who were on an extended expedition and a woman who was participating in a weight loss study. Table 2 is about the woman. The point: this is a very small amount of data from which to begin drawing conclusions that might apply more widely.
The article makes no claim for generalizability. In the context of a larger study it discusses a woman whose metabolic adaptation to energy restriction exceeded the energy deficit, resulting in weight gain on a lower calorie diet. I think they’re clear that they are reporting on one end of the spectrum of inter-individual variation in metabolic adaptation to an energy deficit. The majority of individuals lost weight exactly as expected. I shared the article because there is a firmly held belief in this Community that it is impossible to gain weight after cutting calories. Because of the over emphasis on the CI component of CICO, the answer to stalled weight loss is almost always “you’re eating more than you think you are”, or “eat less”. There exist some unfortunate individuals for whom that advice is both demotivating and simply wrong. So a little compassion when they post asking for help might be in order.
You are talking about the .0099% of the population, the outliers. On threads like those. chime in with your advice see if that helps them.
I did not know it was 0.0099%. Do you have a source for that figure?
How many people go on Antarctica expeditions? Divide that by 7 billion.11 -
tbright1965 wrote: »
You have 34 posts, and I'm pretty confident at least 10 of them are in debate threads complaining about the bad advice we give
While I get your point, I'm not sure post count has any reliable relationship with the quality of posts.
People with high post counts can provide really bad information, while those with low counts can provide good information.
Not sure what citing post count does to advance an argument. Seems more like a logical fallacy to cite post count.
A previous poster said that she wished people who complain about the advice we give, would spend some time volunteering their own wisdom in threads rather than just complaining about us. Her response, which I quoted, was "I do". I would think the number of posts she has is incredibly relevant to that assertion. If she was volunteering time offering advice to others, she would have more than 34 posts. But I get it, it's fun to just pop into a 30 page thread and criticize someone.
It's a lot easier to say "You're doing it wrong" than to try to do it yourself. I suppose this would be a better community if we all just stopped posting these CICO related responses and just let all the newbies debate whether ACV or Hydroxycut are the best way to lose weight.
Hey, OG Hyroxycut actually worked.
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stanmann571 wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »
You have 34 posts, and I'm pretty confident at least 10 of them are in debate threads complaining about the bad advice we give
While I get your point, I'm not sure post count has any reliable relationship with the quality of posts.
People with high post counts can provide really bad information, while those with low counts can provide good information.
Not sure what citing post count does to advance an argument. Seems more like a logical fallacy to cite post count.
A previous poster said that she wished people who complain about the advice we give, would spend some time volunteering their own wisdom in threads rather than just complaining about us. Her response, which I quoted, was "I do". I would think the number of posts she has is incredibly relevant to that assertion. If she was volunteering time offering advice to others, she would have more than 34 posts. But I get it, it's fun to just pop into a 30 page thread and criticize someone.
It's a lot easier to say "You're doing it wrong" than to try to do it yourself. I suppose this would be a better community if we all just stopped posting these CICO related responses and just let all the newbies debate whether ACV or Hydroxycut are the best way to lose weight.
Hey, OG Hyroxycut actually worked.
Shush, you're not helping 
7 -
nettiklive wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Sure it has. It’s not common. It’s probably quite rare. Has it been reported? Yes. See Table 2 for Patient details. Truth is there is significant inter-individual variation in the extent of adaptive thermogenesis relative to the energy deficit.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.2217/17460875.2.6.651?needAccess=true
A study on 2 whole people, huh?
I think you might need to reread the article.
The article shares details about the case studies of three people -- two men who were on an extended expedition and a woman who was participating in a weight loss study. Table 2 is about the woman. The point: this is a very small amount of data from which to begin drawing conclusions that might apply more widely.
The article makes no claim for generalizability. In the context of a larger study it discusses a woman whose metabolic adaptation to energy restriction exceeded the energy deficit, resulting in weight gain on a lower calorie diet. I think they’re clear that they are reporting on one end of the spectrum of inter-individual variation in metabolic adaptation to an energy deficit. The majority of individuals lost weight exactly as expected. I shared the article because there is a firmly held belief in this Community that it is impossible to gain weight after cutting calories. Because of the over emphasis on the CI component of CICO, the answer to stalled weight loss is almost always “you’re eating more than you think you are”, or “eat less”. There exist some unfortunate individuals for whom that advice is both demotivating and simply wrong. So a little compassion when they post asking for help might be in order.
You are talking about the .0099% of the population, the outliers. On threads like those. chime in with your advice see if that helps them.
It doesn't matter what percentage it is. We're debating simply the physiological possibility that these outliers may in fact exist. If even one person like that exists in the world, it means that there is some mechanism by which the calorie burning/ weight loss process does not work as expected. It's not about debating the physical principle of CICO, but applying it to human weight loss through a reasonably sustainable caloric deficit, and that is what people are suggesting may not always occur as it should on paper. Just like gravity exists for everyone yet birds are able to fly while mammals cannot.
That's actually a really good example. Someone with no clue of how gravity works may think that gravity doesn't apply to birds. Just like there's people that count calories for a week, don't see the results they expect for one of the billion reasons that we tell them about every time they come to these forums, and think CICO doesn't work as it should.16 -
stanmann571 wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »
You have 34 posts, and I'm pretty confident at least 10 of them are in debate threads complaining about the bad advice we give
While I get your point, I'm not sure post count has any reliable relationship with the quality of posts.
People with high post counts can provide really bad information, while those with low counts can provide good information.
Not sure what citing post count does to advance an argument. Seems more like a logical fallacy to cite post count.
A previous poster said that she wished people who complain about the advice we give, would spend some time volunteering their own wisdom in threads rather than just complaining about us. Her response, which I quoted, was "I do". I would think the number of posts she has is incredibly relevant to that assertion. If she was volunteering time offering advice to others, she would have more than 34 posts. But I get it, it's fun to just pop into a 30 page thread and criticize someone.
It's a lot easier to say "You're doing it wrong" than to try to do it yourself. I suppose this would be a better community if we all just stopped posting these CICO related responses and just let all the newbies debate whether ACV or Hydroxycut are the best way to lose weight.
Hey, OG Hyroxycut actually worked.
I remember taking Hydroxycut in the late 1990s when it still had ephedra, with my heart just hammering for hours, lol. It was very effective and I'm grateful that it didn't kill me
5 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »
You have 34 posts, and I'm pretty confident at least 10 of them are in debate threads complaining about the bad advice we give
While I get your point, I'm not sure post count has any reliable relationship with the quality of posts.
People with high post counts can provide really bad information, while those with low counts can provide good information.
Not sure what citing post count does to advance an argument. Seems more like a logical fallacy to cite post count.
A previous poster said that she wished people who complain about the advice we give, would spend some time volunteering their own wisdom in threads rather than just complaining about us. Her response, which I quoted, was "I do". I would think the number of posts she has is incredibly relevant to that assertion. If she was volunteering time offering advice to others, she would have more than 34 posts. But I get it, it's fun to just pop into a 30 page thread and criticize someone.
It's a lot easier to say "You're doing it wrong" than to try to do it yourself. I suppose this would be a better community if we all just stopped posting these CICO related responses and just let all the newbies debate whether ACV or Hydroxycut are the best way to lose weight.
Hey, OG Hyroxycut actually worked.
I remember taking Hydroxycut in the late 1990s when it still had ephedra, with my heart just hammering for hours, lol. It was very effective and I'm grateful that it didn't kill me
I ended up taking just a very low dose, and managed to lose 20 or 30 lbs in the month. I felt really good.... slept great, had plenty of energy for training and managed to keep the weight off.... for a while(almost 2 years)3 -
Inhaling oxygen and exhaling carbon dioxide is a nice idea. It's a good way to stay alive. It's not the only way to stay alive mind you, I mean....we're all different.
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stanmann571 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »
You have 34 posts, and I'm pretty confident at least 10 of them are in debate threads complaining about the bad advice we give
While I get your point, I'm not sure post count has any reliable relationship with the quality of posts.
People with high post counts can provide really bad information, while those with low counts can provide good information.
Not sure what citing post count does to advance an argument. Seems more like a logical fallacy to cite post count.
A previous poster said that she wished people who complain about the advice we give, would spend some time volunteering their own wisdom in threads rather than just complaining about us. Her response, which I quoted, was "I do". I would think the number of posts she has is incredibly relevant to that assertion. If she was volunteering time offering advice to others, she would have more than 34 posts. But I get it, it's fun to just pop into a 30 page thread and criticize someone.
It's a lot easier to say "You're doing it wrong" than to try to do it yourself. I suppose this would be a better community if we all just stopped posting these CICO related responses and just let all the newbies debate whether ACV or Hydroxycut are the best way to lose weight.
Hey, OG Hyroxycut actually worked.
I remember taking Hydroxycut in the late 1990s when it still had ephedra, with my heart just hammering for hours, lol. It was very effective and I'm grateful that it didn't kill me
I ended up taking just a very low dose, and managed to lose 20 or 30 lbs in the month. I felt really good.... slept great, had plenty of energy for training and managed to keep the weight off.... for a while(almost 2 years)
I was drinking heavily and living on a happy hour pub food diet 4-5 nights a week (chicken fingers, fries, mozzarella sticks, potato skins, loaded nachos, etc.) and Hydroxycut was a nice offset - I think I lost maybe 10-15lbs during the 3-4 months I used it.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Sure it has. It’s not common. It’s probably quite rare. Has it been reported? Yes. See Table 2 for Patient details. Truth is there is significant inter-individual variation in the extent of adaptive thermogenesis relative to the energy deficit.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.2217/17460875.2.6.651?needAccess=true
A study on 2 whole people, huh?
I think you might need to reread the article.
The article shares details about the case studies of three people -- two men who were on an extended expedition and a woman who was participating in a weight loss study. Table 2 is about the woman. The point: this is a very small amount of data from which to begin drawing conclusions that might apply more widely.
The article makes no claim for generalizability. In the context of a larger study it discusses a woman whose metabolic adaptation to energy restriction exceeded the energy deficit, resulting in weight gain on a lower calorie diet. I think they’re clear that they are reporting on one end of the spectrum of inter-individual variation in metabolic adaptation to an energy deficit. The majority of individuals lost weight exactly as expected. I shared the article because there is a firmly held belief in this Community that it is impossible to gain weight after cutting calories. Because of the over emphasis on the CI component of CICO, the answer to stalled weight loss is almost always “you’re eating more than you think you are”, or “eat less”. There exist some unfortunate individuals for whom that advice is both demotivating and simply wrong. So a little compassion when they post asking for help might be in order.
You are talking about the .0099% of the population, the outliers. On threads like those. chime in with your advice see if that helps them.
It doesn't matter what percentage it is. We're debating simply the physiological possibility that these outliers may in fact exist. If even one person like that exists in the world, it means that there is some mechanism by which the calorie burning/ weight loss process does not work as expected. It's not about debating the physical principle of CICO, but applying it to human weight loss through a reasonably sustainable caloric deficit, and that is what people are suggesting may not always occur as it should on paper. Just like gravity exists for everyone yet birds are able to fly while mammals cannot.
That's actually a really good example. Someone with no clue of how gravity works may think that gravity doesn't apply to birds. Just like there's people that count calories for a week, don't see the results they expect for one of the billion reasons that we tell them about every time they come to these forums, and think CICO doesn't work as it should.
Yes, but just as gravity does not prevent birds from flying, CICO may not prevent someone in a slight caloric deficit or surplus from losing or gaining weight, because other mechanisms are at work that alter the equation23 -
I hear cowbells6
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nettiklive wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Sure it has. It’s not common. It’s probably quite rare. Has it been reported? Yes. See Table 2 for Patient details. Truth is there is significant inter-individual variation in the extent of adaptive thermogenesis relative to the energy deficit.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.2217/17460875.2.6.651?needAccess=true
A study on 2 whole people, huh?
I think you might need to reread the article.
The article shares details about the case studies of three people -- two men who were on an extended expedition and a woman who was participating in a weight loss study. Table 2 is about the woman. The point: this is a very small amount of data from which to begin drawing conclusions that might apply more widely.
The article makes no claim for generalizability. In the context of a larger study it discusses a woman whose metabolic adaptation to energy restriction exceeded the energy deficit, resulting in weight gain on a lower calorie diet. I think they’re clear that they are reporting on one end of the spectrum of inter-individual variation in metabolic adaptation to an energy deficit. The majority of individuals lost weight exactly as expected. I shared the article because there is a firmly held belief in this Community that it is impossible to gain weight after cutting calories. Because of the over emphasis on the CI component of CICO, the answer to stalled weight loss is almost always “you’re eating more than you think you are”, or “eat less”. There exist some unfortunate individuals for whom that advice is both demotivating and simply wrong. So a little compassion when they post asking for help might be in order.
You are talking about the .0099% of the population, the outliers. On threads like those. chime in with your advice see if that helps them.
It doesn't matter what percentage it is. We're debating simply the physiological possibility that these outliers may in fact exist. If even one person like that exists in the world, it means that there is some mechanism by which the calorie burning/ weight loss process does not work as expected. It's not about debating the physical principle of CICO, but applying it to human weight loss through a reasonably sustainable caloric deficit, and that is what people are suggesting may not always occur as it should on paper. Just like gravity exists for everyone yet birds are able to fly while mammals cannot.
That's actually a really good example. Someone with no clue of how gravity works may think that gravity doesn't apply to birds. Just like there's people that count calories for a week, don't see the results they expect for one of the billion reasons that we tell them about every time they come to these forums, and think CICO doesn't work as it should.
Yes, but just as gravity does not prevent birds from flying, CICO may not prevent someone in a slight caloric deficit or surplus from losing or gaining weight, because other mechanisms are at work that alter the equation
Huh? If they are in a deficit they will lose... what you mean is if it affects their TDEE to the point that the caloric intake they think should be a deficit, acutally is a slight surplus and they gain a little weight instead of losing.15 -
nettiklive wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Sure it has. It’s not common. It’s probably quite rare. Has it been reported? Yes. See Table 2 for Patient details. Truth is there is significant inter-individual variation in the extent of adaptive thermogenesis relative to the energy deficit.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.2217/17460875.2.6.651?needAccess=true
A study on 2 whole people, huh?
I think you might need to reread the article.
The article shares details about the case studies of three people -- two men who were on an extended expedition and a woman who was participating in a weight loss study. Table 2 is about the woman. The point: this is a very small amount of data from which to begin drawing conclusions that might apply more widely.
The article makes no claim for generalizability. In the context of a larger study it discusses a woman whose metabolic adaptation to energy restriction exceeded the energy deficit, resulting in weight gain on a lower calorie diet. I think they’re clear that they are reporting on one end of the spectrum of inter-individual variation in metabolic adaptation to an energy deficit. The majority of individuals lost weight exactly as expected. I shared the article because there is a firmly held belief in this Community that it is impossible to gain weight after cutting calories. Because of the over emphasis on the CI component of CICO, the answer to stalled weight loss is almost always “you’re eating more than you think you are”, or “eat less”. There exist some unfortunate individuals for whom that advice is both demotivating and simply wrong. So a little compassion when they post asking for help might be in order.
You are talking about the .0099% of the population, the outliers. On threads like those. chime in with your advice see if that helps them.
It doesn't matter what percentage it is. We're debating simply the physiological possibility that these outliers may in fact exist. If even one person like that exists in the world, it means that there is some mechanism by which the calorie burning/ weight loss process does not work as expected. It's not about debating the physical principle of CICO, but applying it to human weight loss through a reasonably sustainable caloric deficit, and that is what people are suggesting may not always occur as it should on paper. Just like gravity exists for everyone yet birds are able to fly while mammals cannot.
That's actually a really good example. Someone with no clue of how gravity works may think that gravity doesn't apply to birds. Just like there's people that count calories for a week, don't see the results they expect for one of the billion reasons that we tell them about every time they come to these forums, and think CICO doesn't work as it should.
Yes, but just as gravity does not prevent birds from flying, CICO may not prevent someone in a slight caloric deficit or surplus from losing or gaining weight, because other mechanisms are at work that alter the equation
Uh. Other mechanisms being at work that alters the CI or the CO side of CICO does not negate CICO. It just changes the values of the CI or the CO... So CICO is still very much at play.12 -
nettiklive wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Sure it has. It’s not common. It’s probably quite rare. Has it been reported? Yes. See Table 2 for Patient details. Truth is there is significant inter-individual variation in the extent of adaptive thermogenesis relative to the energy deficit.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.2217/17460875.2.6.651?needAccess=true
A study on 2 whole people, huh?
I think you might need to reread the article.
The article shares details about the case studies of three people -- two men who were on an extended expedition and a woman who was participating in a weight loss study. Table 2 is about the woman. The point: this is a very small amount of data from which to begin drawing conclusions that might apply more widely.
The article makes no claim for generalizability. In the context of a larger study it discusses a woman whose metabolic adaptation to energy restriction exceeded the energy deficit, resulting in weight gain on a lower calorie diet. I think they’re clear that they are reporting on one end of the spectrum of inter-individual variation in metabolic adaptation to an energy deficit. The majority of individuals lost weight exactly as expected. I shared the article because there is a firmly held belief in this Community that it is impossible to gain weight after cutting calories. Because of the over emphasis on the CI component of CICO, the answer to stalled weight loss is almost always “you’re eating more than you think you are”, or “eat less”. There exist some unfortunate individuals for whom that advice is both demotivating and simply wrong. So a little compassion when they post asking for help might be in order.
You are talking about the .0099% of the population, the outliers. On threads like those. chime in with your advice see if that helps them.
It doesn't matter what percentage it is. We're debating simply the physiological possibility that these outliers may in fact exist. If even one person like that exists in the world, it means that there is some mechanism by which the calorie burning/ weight loss process does not work as expected. It's not about debating the physical principle of CICO, but applying it to human weight loss through a reasonably sustainable caloric deficit, and that is what people are suggesting may not always occur as it should on paper. Just like gravity exists for everyone yet birds are able to fly while mammals cannot.
That's actually a really good example. Someone with no clue of how gravity works may think that gravity doesn't apply to birds. Just like there's people that count calories for a week, don't see the results they expect for one of the billion reasons that we tell them about every time they come to these forums, and think CICO doesn't work as it should.
Yes, but just as gravity does not prevent birds from flying, CICO may not prevent someone in a slight caloric deficit or surplus from losing or gaining weight, because other mechanisms are at work that alter the equation
Gravity is still at work in the process of flight. It doesn't stop working just because something uses the principle of lift to get off the ground. The formula used to measure the change in energy balance (CICO) is still at work no matter what method is used to lose weight. There may well be better ways of measuring that energy balance, but the process is still the same regardless.8 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »
You have 34 posts, and I'm pretty confident at least 10 of them are in debate threads complaining about the bad advice we give
While I get your point, I'm not sure post count has any reliable relationship with the quality of posts.
People with high post counts can provide really bad information, while those with low counts can provide good information.
Not sure what citing post count does to advance an argument. Seems more like a logical fallacy to cite post count.
A previous poster said that she wished people who complain about the advice we give, would spend some time volunteering their own wisdom in threads rather than just complaining about us. Her response, which I quoted, was "I do". I would think the number of posts she has is incredibly relevant to that assertion. If she was volunteering time offering advice to others, she would have more than 34 posts. But I get it, it's fun to just pop into a 30 page thread and criticize someone.
It's a lot easier to say "You're doing it wrong" than to try to do it yourself. I suppose this would be a better community if we all just stopped posting these CICO related responses and just let all the newbies debate whether ACV or Hydroxycut are the best way to lose weight.
Hey, OG Hyroxycut actually worked.
I remember taking Hydroxycut in the late 1990s when it still had ephedra, with my heart just hammering for hours, lol. It was very effective and I'm grateful that it didn't kill me
I ended up taking just a very low dose, and managed to lose 20 or 30 lbs in the month. I felt really good.... slept great, had plenty of energy for training and managed to keep the weight off.... for a while(almost 2 years)
I was drinking heavily and living on a happy hour pub food diet 4-5 nights a week (chicken fingers, fries, mozzarella sticks, potato skins, loaded nachos, etc.) and Hydroxycut was a nice offset - I think I lost maybe 10-15lbs during the 3-4 months I used it.
I didn't realize until the second time I did Keto, that it wasn't Keto that was responsible, but the Hydroxycut stack.
The second time I did a round of Keto, I gained 4 or 5 lbs and suffered savage keto-flu. The first time. IT was amazing.0 -
nettiklive wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Sure it has. It’s not common. It’s probably quite rare. Has it been reported? Yes. See Table 2 for Patient details. Truth is there is significant inter-individual variation in the extent of adaptive thermogenesis relative to the energy deficit.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.2217/17460875.2.6.651?needAccess=true
A study on 2 whole people, huh?
I think you might need to reread the article.
The article shares details about the case studies of three people -- two men who were on an extended expedition and a woman who was participating in a weight loss study. Table 2 is about the woman. The point: this is a very small amount of data from which to begin drawing conclusions that might apply more widely.
The article makes no claim for generalizability. In the context of a larger study it discusses a woman whose metabolic adaptation to energy restriction exceeded the energy deficit, resulting in weight gain on a lower calorie diet. I think they’re clear that they are reporting on one end of the spectrum of inter-individual variation in metabolic adaptation to an energy deficit. The majority of individuals lost weight exactly as expected. I shared the article because there is a firmly held belief in this Community that it is impossible to gain weight after cutting calories. Because of the over emphasis on the CI component of CICO, the answer to stalled weight loss is almost always “you’re eating more than you think you are”, or “eat less”. There exist some unfortunate individuals for whom that advice is both demotivating and simply wrong. So a little compassion when they post asking for help might be in order.
You are talking about the .0099% of the population, the outliers. On threads like those. chime in with your advice see if that helps them.
It doesn't matter what percentage it is. We're debating simply the physiological possibility that these outliers may in fact exist. If even one person like that exists in the world, it means that there is some mechanism by which the calorie burning/ weight loss process does not work as expected. It's not about debating the physical principle of CICO, but applying it to human weight loss through a reasonably sustainable caloric deficit, and that is what people are suggesting may not always occur as it should on paper. Just like gravity exists for everyone yet birds are able to fly while mammals cannot.
That's actually a really good example. Someone with no clue of how gravity works may think that gravity doesn't apply to birds. Just like there's people that count calories for a week, don't see the results they expect for one of the billion reasons that we tell them about every time they come to these forums, and think CICO doesn't work as it should.
Yes, but just as gravity does not prevent birds from flying, CICO may not prevent someone in a slight caloric deficit or surplus from losing or gaining weight, because other mechanisms are at work that alter the equation
Those other things are accounted for in CICO. You said it yourself - they alter the equation, but the equation still applies. The problem isn't that we don't take them into consideration, it's that you still don't understand what CICO is and how we use it to our advantage.8 -
For me, I get tired of hearing "its CICO, eat whatever you want as long as you stay under calories MFP says you will lose weight"
I am not tired of hearing it because it is necessarily wrong. I get that CICO works. But people tend to simplify CICO too much. There are a lot of things that affect the CO portion of the equation. Individual metabolism, body composition just to name a few of the many.
More importantly, there is a lot more that goes into the CI portion. Just consume less calories is not that easy for some and for those who think its easy, they just assume everyone else is just too lazy to try. There are mental blocks, terrible relationships with food, habits, brain chemistry that goes into it. While some people can just eat one slice of pizza, that would be horrible advice for others as eating just 1 piece is a lot harder. CICO does not account for ones relationship to food. There are certain foods that I just cannot eat because it is a trigger for my eating disorder and will derail all my progress. I have to recognize that. But if I were to have a thread on here about how I am going to cut out pizza, I would get a bunch of responses from people telling me they cant imagine life without pizza and as long as it fits in your calories, eat the pizza. How is that helpful for me?
Again, CICO at its basics works but it is way over simplified for the execution of people with eating disorders, emotional eating, and other bad relationships with food.
I also feel like the MFP community bashes people's diets too much. Yes low carb, paleo, Atkins, OMAD diets are all ways for you to achieve CICO so who cares what path people choose? If carbs trigger over eating for someone so they go low carb to lose weight....who cares?? You dont need to throw CICO at them saying that they dont need to do low carb. I have recently changed to an IF eating pattern. Not necessary because I wanted to follow that diet but because I recognized that I was not actually hungry in the morning so eating when I was not hungry was not a habit I wants to pick up again. On the opposite end, I was always hungry at 3pm and I had no calories left over. So now my breakfast calories can be reused for 3pm. But again, looking at threads on IF, you get the MFP veterans constantly knocking it because all you need is CICO.19
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