To Keto or not to Keto
Replies
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carolsoules wrote: »These are the facts: you can lose a lot of weight at first. I fully believe all the people that say they've lost weight on keto--I'm not denying that at all.
But you will gain weight back when you stop, and then you may find it harder to lose that weight again. It's a form of starvation mode and it completely destroys your endocrine system's ability to affect homeostasis when used over the long term. It likely has negative long-term effects on your brain/nervous system and your cardiovascular system as well. It's not a long-term diet. Period. End of story. That is what the science of physiology says.
It's a tool that was designed for professional athletes who are trying to cut weight in the short term for specific competitions. If you are morbidly obese, it can be used (UNDER MEDICAL SUPERVISION) to shed some pounds, but only because the alternative is chronic disease and because your endocrine/cardiovascular/nervous systems are likely already damaged, so it's the lesser of the evils there.
Please, above all else, talk to your doctor!!!!!!!!! before going on any sort of extreme plan like keto, and listen to what your doctor says (even if it's different from what I just wrote).
keto was NOT used for athletes to cut weight short term. it was designed for people who have epilepsy which for many this diet helps them to control their seizures. but for epilepsy the protein is higher than in keto. now athletes may have come across the study and thought hmmm and tried it. but no it was originally used for epileptics since the 1920s. as for it being bad for your health. so far there are no scientific studies that I have come across stating that its dangerous and will ruin your health long term. if its not a long term diet then explain how people who have done it for years are having no issues? and how its helped many with health issues overcome them with this diet?7 -
carolsoules wrote: »(1)These are the facts: you can lose a lot of weight at first. I fully believe all the people that say they've lost weight on keto--I'm not denying that at all.
(2)But you will gain weight back when you stop, and then you may find it harder to lose that weight again. (3)It's a form of starvation mode and it completely destroys your endocrine system's ability to affect homeostasis when used over the long term. It likely has negative long-term effects on your brain/nervous system and your cardiovascular system as well. It's not a long-term diet. Period. End of story. (4)That is what the science of physiology says.
(5)It's a tool that was designed for professional athletes who are trying to cut weight in the short term for specific competitions. If you are morbidly obese, it can be used (UNDER MEDICAL SUPERVISION) to shed some pounds, (6)but only because the alternative is chronic disease and because your endocrine/cardiovascular/nervous systems are likely already damaged, so it's the lesser of the evils there.
Please, above all else, talk to your doctor!!!!!!!!! before going on any sort of extreme plan like keto, and listen to what your doctor says (even if it's different from what I just wrote).
Numbers from above...
(1) no, these are not the facts
(2) this is true of any diet, unless you incorporate the diet into a permanent lifestyle change
(3) nope - it is an evolutionary trait developed by the body in response to times when carbs weren't highly available (like during winter). It does not damage the endocrine system - why would the body develop a way to cope that destroys itself??
(4) again, nope, see above discussion about evolution
(5) CharlieBean already addressed this - but to re-iterate, it was developed for humans as a therapy for seizures and other groups (like the bodybuilders) have co-opted the strategy for their own use
(6) fear-mongering such as this does nothing to support your case5 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »carolsoules wrote: »These are the facts: you can lose a lot of weight at first. I fully believe all the people that say they've lost weight on keto--I'm not denying that at all.
But you will gain weight back when you stop, and then you may find it harder to lose that weight again. It's a form of starvation mode and it completely destroys your endocrine system's ability to affect homeostasis when used over the long term. It likely has negative long-term effects on your brain/nervous system and your cardiovascular system as well. It's not a long-term diet. Period. End of story. That is what the science of physiology says.
It's a tool that was designed for professional athletes who are trying to cut weight in the short term for specific competitions. If you are morbidly obese, it can be used (UNDER MEDICAL SUPERVISION) to shed some pounds, but only because the alternative is chronic disease and because your endocrine/cardiovascular/nervous systems are likely already damaged, so it's the lesser of the evils there.
Please, above all else, talk to your doctor!!!!!!!!! before going on any sort of extreme plan like keto, and listen to what your doctor says (even if it's different from what I just wrote).
keto was NOT used for athletes to cut weight short term. it was designed for people who have epilepsy which for many this diet helps them to control their seizures. but for epilepsy the protein is higher than in keto. now athletes may have come across the study and thought hmmm and tried it. but no it was originally used for epileptics since the 1920s. as for it being bad for your health. so far there are no scientific studies that I have come across stating that its dangerous and will ruin your health long term. if its not a long term diet then explain how people who have done it for years are having no issues? and how its helped many with health issues overcome them with this diet?
Define "high protein" please. Medically therapeutic ketogenic diets as I understand them are high fat diets and do not have what I would consider protein higher than most use/eat in weight loss keto.
Might want to double check the bold. Classical keto for epilepsy is generally a 4:1 or 3:1 ratio of fats:combined carbs+protein which in both cases make protein very low and certainly lower than the common 75%/20/5 or 70%/25/5 macro combos for "weight loss keto". The 3:1 is generally ~80% fat which leaves only 20% combined protein and carbs. The 4:1 is obviously higher in fat than the 3:1 so even less protein (combined with carbs).
There are alternate versions of ketogenic diets for some folks with epilepsy which allow for a little higher protein/carbs such as a Modified Atkins, Low Glycemic or MCT Diet however they are still quite low in protein in conjunction with carbs.
If you are aware of a high protein ketogenic diet for neurology I would appreciate you sending me information on it. Thank you.1 -
So water weight rushes are typical of cutting carbs, but it can take time for people to get into ketosis. Is there a second whoosh associated with actually achieving ketosis?0
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concordancia wrote: »So water weight rushes are typical of cutting carbs, but it can take time for people to get into ketosis. Is there a second whoosh associated with actually achieving ketosis?
I did not lose or gain a pound for the first 45 days of this WOE. I dropped 50 pounds that have stayed for the past 3 years and I have eaten in the 2000-3000 calorie range all of this time. The time to get into ketosis in my case depended on when I stopped sucking up 50+ carbs daily. It can be fast since we do not store carbs in a meaningful way/quantity. Whooshing I expects had more with under eating total calories because I have never experience it.9 -
concordancia wrote: »So water weight rushes are typical of cutting carbs, but it can take time for people to get into ketosis. Is there a second whoosh associated with actually achieving ketosis?
Not that I'm aware of. The first 'woosh' is from using up glycogen stores and the water stored with it, after that I imagine it goes down just like any other calorie reduced eating plan, it depends on your calorie deficit. I get 'whooshes' every month after TOM, but that is still water retention.0 -
some of the ones you mentioned are higher protein but this one says up to 35% protein for the modified atkins diet http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/0516p46.shtmlCharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »carolsoules wrote: »These are the facts: you can lose a lot of weight at first. I fully believe all the people that say they've lost weight on keto--I'm not denying that at all.
But you will gain weight back when you stop, and then you may find it harder to lose that weight again. It's a form of starvation mode and it completely destroys your endocrine system's ability to affect homeostasis when used over the long term. It likely has negative long-term effects on your brain/nervous system and your cardiovascular system as well. It's not a long-term diet. Period. End of story. That is what the science of physiology says.
It's a tool that was designed for professional athletes who are trying to cut weight in the short term for specific competitions. If you are morbidly obese, it can be used (UNDER MEDICAL SUPERVISION) to shed some pounds, but only because the alternative is chronic disease and because your endocrine/cardiovascular/nervous systems are likely already damaged, so it's the lesser of the evils there.
Please, above all else, talk to your doctor!!!!!!!!! before going on any sort of extreme plan like keto, and listen to what your doctor says (even if it's different from what I just wrote).
keto was NOT used for athletes to cut weight short term. it was designed for people who have epilepsy which for many this diet helps them to control their seizures. but for epilepsy the protein is higher than in keto. now athletes may have come across the study and thought hmmm and tried it. but no it was originally used for epileptics since the 1920s. as for it being bad for your health. so far there are no scientific studies that I have come across stating that its dangerous and will ruin your health long term. if its not a long term diet then explain how people who have done it for years are having no issues? and how its helped many with health issues overcome them with this diet?
Define "high protein" please. Medically therapeutic ketogenic diets as I understand them are high fat diets and do not have what I would consider protein higher than most use/eat in weight loss keto.
Might want to double check the bold. Classical keto for epilepsy is generally a 4:1 or 3:1 ratio of fats:combined carbs+protein which in both cases make protein very low and certainly lower than the common 75%/20/5 or 70%/25/5 macro combos for "weight loss keto". The 3:1 is generally ~80% fat which leaves only 20% combined protein and carbs. The 4:1 is obviously higher in fat than the 3:1 so even less protein (combined with carbs).
There are alternate versions of ketogenic diets for some folks with epilepsy which allow for a little higher protein/carbs such as a Modified Atkins, Low Glycemic or MCT Diet however they are still quite low in protein in conjunction with carbs.
If you are aware of a high protein ketogenic diet for neurology I would appreciate you sending me information on it. Thank you.
this one states the atkins diet is 30% protein(you probably knew this already) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1176378/
this one says the modified atkins has no restrictions on protein https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2656445/
many of these also say that one type of fat is better than others in a diet for epilepsy. there is even mention of a 9:1 ratio too.4 -
ronaldwileypope wrote: »My two cents. Keto like veganism and vegetarianism, comes in different flavors. There are fat vegetarians and vegans as well as ultra thin ones. Most good diet plans I have heard of succeeding, are the ones with copious amounts of vegetables with no refined carbohydrates. Keto, from my research, can achieve this. In fact since one of its tennants is ultra low carbs. It can achieve this very well. Been studying up on diabetes, sounds like excess sugar is the big baddy, not good fats.
If you'd been studying the proper stuff about diabetes, you'd know that sugar doesn't cause it.
Obesity is strongly linked to diabetes as a causative factor, though. And obesity comes from eating too many calories. Regardless of whether they're carbs/sugar, fat or protein.
Preach!2 -
akinastrong wrote: »how do you set a number on it? being on a keto diet naturally suppresses your appetite if you are doing it correctly so there is no need to calorie restrict your self. and have you tried the diet?
You're assuming that fat has a high satiety level for everyone, which is not true. I do better with a higher carb intake-carbs make me feel full for much longer than fat does (and yes, I've experimented with very low carb/high fat).
At the end of the day weight loss, weight maintenance and weight gain comes down to CICO. There's all sorts of ways you can go about approaching CICO, but it's the underlying truth for all the weight loss diets and fads out there.
If someone finds that eating a low carb or keto diet helps them achieve CICO easier than another plan/way of eating that's great! We're each highly individual when it comes to macros satiety, food preferences, lifestyles, schedules, activity levels etc. The important thing is to figure out what works for you and then go with it
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akinastrong wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »akinastrong wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »akinastrong wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »@akinastrong Calories do matter.
I never said it didn't matter I just said I don't tract mine and restrict my calories because keto naturally suppresses my and my clients appetite.
Clients?! I hope you are referring to keto os or some other mlm type of clients......
Clients meaning people I'm am helping with the diet. And track there progress
You've been on keto for 4.5 months......
And you point is?
The point is you're still very new at this whole thing. In the scheme of things you haven't even started yet. Get back with us after you've hit your goal weight and have maintained the loss for a few years. Heck, I've been successfully maintaining for over 5 years now and I still wouldn't mentor others, because I still have 40+ YEARS of maintenance ahead of me and I know the odds are stacked against my long term success. There's millions and millions of people who've lost weight on all sorts of plans/fads. And most of them gain the weight right back within a few months to a few years.
I sincerely wish you the best of luck with your weight management goals, there's too few of us who actually succeed at this whole thing long term.7 -
The full length documentary is on Netflix. Here's a short trailer for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61GitUC_678 8 -
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do keto and intermittent fasting; eating only once a day in a 30 to 45 min window.
Even if I accept your word without evidence that this is a magic new way to lose weight ( I don't) - it is largely irelevant to most people.
Most people do not want to eat in such a tiny time frame per day - that would totally not work for me. and i doubt it would work for many people.
Neither would eating keto - but that is different story.
I mean if I post that magic new exercise to lose weight is run naked round the staff room in your work place in your lunch break - whether or not people accept my word without evidence that this works ( I doubt many would) it is so unfeasable to real life practices for most people that ist is already irelevant.4 -
Fair point, I get all my health and medical info from celebrity chefs. The more dimples, the more sound the advice.
Pete Evans is just the handsome version of David Avocado, or the male version of Freelee the Banana Girl.5 -
All you need to see is the name Pete Evans to know that it's mega-super-ultra-woo. The guy's only a few shades off David Wolfe levels of crazy.4
This discussion has been closed.
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