To Keto or not to Keto
Replies
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Don't do keto or the caps lock on your keyboard will become stuck.
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PaulChasinDreams wrote: »VERY VERY simple science here people. Some of you posting here just don't understand it and or are just brainwashed into believing you HAVE to be in a caloric deficit to lose FAT. NO YOU DON'T. Try to read and understand what a TRULY KETO ADAPTED METABOLISM IS!!! YOU burn fat all day long even if you are NOT in a deficit!!!!
AND VERY VERY simple science how guys like me are gaining lean muscle mass WHILE losing FAT... Your muscles grow by being in sense "injured" while working out. Injured isn't a great term but in fact the muscles get tons of tiny tears in them and they require protein "amino acids" to repair those areas. As the muscles repair they grow and gain size and weight. All you need to do is find the right number of grams of protein to eat per lb of your body weight for your body to keep those muscles fed as you continue to lose body fat. Usually between .4 to 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. This Is not a new thing lol. Friends of mine have been doing this for quite awhile now. Just because you are losing FAT DOESN'T mean the muscles won't grow if you feed them and work them out. Your body will NOT go CATOTONIC IF IT IS IN A FULL KETO ADAPTED STATE AND YOU FEED YOURSELF ENOUGH PROTEIN!!!
This is only one thing that you are very confused about. Your pronouncements sound like rantings and you deny studies and science. You sound crazy really.
This is the kind of thing that puts people off keto, despite it being potentially valid for some people. Your anecdotes don't really prove anything. Lot's of people get results that they attribute to the wrong reasons. Just ask any of the bros at the gym or on BB.com.
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I started Keto because I have a lot of friends who have had tremendous success with it, and a few that have been doing it for 15 years and it's their lifestyle. I am at that point where I have to decide to make some sacrifices to my diet to see the change I want. I have found for me that carbs do raise blood sugar and can cause cravings. Keto is not easy at all, because I want to have potatoes and chips with salsa, etc. But I can stick to keto because there is so much that I can have, even if there are some things that I can't have. I used to do low carb and not keto, and when I did that, I had a lot of trouble ever making my calorie goal. I would choose lean meats and there were hardly any calories in them. And other than that, sugars is where you get a ton of calories, and you don't consume them in lc or keto. So trying to adjust to higher fats is different, and that also has more calories. So I do try and keep my calories sort of low, but I have not found that very difficult with this diet. But I have been doing it for a week, and haven't had any problem sticking with it so far. There are some side effects that you have to figure out, e.g. leg cramps. But I am in ketosis now, so I am looking forward to seeing where this diet takes me.8
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I started Keto because I have a lot of friends who have had tremendous success with it, and a few that have been doing it for 15 years and it's their lifestyle. I am at that point where I have to decide to make some sacrifices to my diet to see the change I want. I have found for me that carbs do raise blood sugar and can cause cravings. Keto is not easy at all, because I want to have potatoes and chips with salsa, etc. But I can stick to keto because there is so much that I can have, even if there are some things that I can't have. I used to do low carb and not keto, and when I did that, I had a lot of trouble ever making my calorie goal. I would choose lean meats and there were hardly any calories in them. And other than that, sugars is where you get a ton of calories, and you don't consume them in lc or keto. So trying to adjust to higher fats is different, and that also has more calories. So I do try and keep my calories sort of low, but I have not found that very difficult with this diet. But I have been doing it for a week, and haven't had any problem sticking with it so far. There are some side effects that you have to figure out, e.g. leg cramps. But I am in ketosis now, so I am looking forward to seeing where this diet takes me.
But you consume a lot of fat on a keto diet. Fats are 9 calories per gram. Sugar is a carb. Carbs are 4 calories per gram. So a gram of fat has 225% of the calories of a gram of sugar.18 -
I started Keto because I have a lot of friends who have had tremendous success with it, and a few that have been doing it for 15 years and it's their lifestyle. I am at that point where I have to decide to make some sacrifices to my diet to see the change I want. I have found for me that carbs do raise blood sugar and can cause cravings. Keto is not easy at all, because I want to have potatoes and chips with salsa, etc. But I can stick to keto because there is so much that I can have, even if there are some things that I can't have. I used to do low carb and not keto, and when I did that, I had a lot of trouble ever making my calorie goal. I would choose lean meats and there were hardly any calories in them. And other than that, sugars is where you get a ton of calories, and you don't consume them in lc or keto. So trying to adjust to higher fats is different, and that also has more calories. So I do try and keep my calories sort of low, but I have not found that very difficult with this diet. But I have been doing it for a week, and haven't had any problem sticking with it so far. There are some side effects that you have to figure out, e.g. leg cramps. But I am in ketosis now, so I am looking forward to seeing where this diet takes me.
But you consume a lot of fat on a keto diet. Fats are 9 calories per gram. Sugar is a carb. Carbs are 4 calories per gram. So a gram of fat has 225% of the calories of a gram of sugar.
I'm aware of that, keto police.20 -
I started Keto because I have a lot of friends who have had tremendous success with it, and a few that have been doing it for 15 years and it's their lifestyle. I am at that point where I have to decide to make some sacrifices to my diet to see the change I want. I have found for me that carbs do raise blood sugar and can cause cravings. Keto is not easy at all, because I want to have potatoes and chips with salsa, etc. But I can stick to keto because there is so much that I can have, even if there are some things that I can't have. I used to do low carb and not keto, and when I did that, I had a lot of trouble ever making my calorie goal. I would choose lean meats and there were hardly any calories in them. And other than that, sugars is where you get a ton of calories, and you don't consume them in lc or keto. So trying to adjust to higher fats is different, and that also has more calories. So I do try and keep my calories sort of low, but I have not found that very difficult with this diet. But I have been doing it for a week, and haven't had any problem sticking with it so far. There are some side effects that you have to figure out, e.g. leg cramps. But I am in ketosis now, so I am looking forward to seeing where this diet takes me.
But you consume a lot of fat on a keto diet. Fats are 9 calories per gram. Sugar is a carb. Carbs are 4 calories per gram. So a gram of fat has 225% of the calories of a gram of sugar.
I'm aware of that, keto police.
Just making sure. Actual facts sometimes get obscured by hype and propaganda. It's good for other people reading threads like this to get an accurate, truth-based picture.12 -
I said that trying to adjust to high fats was difficult, and there were also more calories in fat, but I am not having any trouble staying within my calories at all. It's just a head thing.. picking 85/15 over 90/10 or better.5
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I do keto, and it’s very helpful to me because it helps me keep a calorie deficit more easily than when I eat a lot more carbs (even quinoa, beans, sweet potatoes, and veggies can make me ravenous). Fats satisfy me better than carbs and I have far less cravings for foods (breads, pasta, granola, ice cream, etc.) that easily take me past calorie goals. I am a volume eater and low carb veggies really satisfy because I can eat a large amount of them. For me, calories do matter on keto. I have to count them along with macros to be successful. I more or less do a weekly average for macros and calories because I am hungry some days. I do not need to stay under 20 net grams of carbs to see fat loss. Under 50 works for me to stay in ketosis. It’s worth a shot to try it if you are struggling to lose weight, and if you think you can sustain it. It can feel rather restrictive if you focus on what you shouldn’t eat on keto rather than focusing on all that you can have.15
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My family (4 of us) started the Ketogenic Meal Plan three days ago. I, myself, have already seen a 6 pound weight loss. I'm sure this is mostly water. Today--the 3rd day I achieved ketosis and the ketones are at large. My family and I are focusing on keeping are macros in check--70% fat, 10% carbs, and 20% protein. I am a type I diabetic on an insulin pump and since starting my blood sugars have been completely level. I am not seeing the ups and downs that are normally seen after meals and the lows prior. Steady levels throughout. I also have decreased my insulin usage from about 37 units per day to 15 units per day. Interestingly no one in my family has felt hungry and the meal planning is a family thing. I find it interestingly also that my calories are pretty much equal to what I ate prior to starting, but I was gaining slowly and now I am losing. I also like the intermittent fasting and plan to do that whenever possible.7
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sljohnson1207 wrote: »I do keto, and it’s very helpful to me because it helps me keep a calorie deficit more easily than when I eat a lot more carbs (even quinoa, beans, sweet potatoes, and veggies can make me ravenous). Fats satisfy me better than carbs and I have far less cravings for foods (breads, pasta, granola, ice cream, etc.) that easily take me past calorie goals. I am a volume eater and low carb veggies really satisfy because I can eat a large amount of them. For me, calories do matter on keto. I have to count them along with macros to be successful. I more or less do a weekly average for macros and calories because I am hungry some days. I do not need to stay under 20 net grams of carbs to see fat loss. Under 50 works for me to stay in ketosis. It’s worth a shot to try it if you are struggling to lose weight, and if you think you can sustain it. It can feel rather restrictive if you focus on what you shouldn’t eat on keto rather than focusing on all that you can have.
Congrats! I wanted to add that I believe your last sentence is true for any other dietary change as well. Focus on what you want to add more of or want to prioritize, and let it naturally push out the other stuff
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I started Keto because I have a lot of friends who have had tremendous success with it, and a few that have been doing it for 15 years and it's their lifestyle. I am at that point where I have to decide to make some sacrifices to my diet to see the change I want. I have found for me that carbs do raise blood sugar and can cause cravings. Keto is not easy at all, because I want to have potatoes and chips with salsa, etc. But I can stick to keto because there is so much that I can have, even if there are some things that I can't have. I used to do low carb and not keto, and when I did that, I had a lot of trouble ever making my calorie goal. I would choose lean meats and there were hardly any calories in them. And other than that, sugars is where you get a ton of calories, and you don't consume them in lc or keto. So trying to adjust to higher fats is different, and that also has more calories. So I do try and keep my calories sort of low, but I have not found that very difficult with this diet. But I have been doing it for a week, and haven't had any problem sticking with it so far. There are some side effects that you have to figure out, e.g. leg cramps. But I am in ketosis now, so I am looking forward to seeing where this diet takes me.
Great post and it's great it works for you and you feel comfortable with it. I love things like baked potatoe's too. One of my favorite side dishes with butter, sour cream, bacon and chives. If you are careful with measuring your foods you may find that with your metabolism you may be able to add in smaller amounts of those kinds of foods. It will depend on your particular metabolism and where your carb number is where it will knock you out of ketosis if you go too high. Do you have a blood ketone monitor? Pee strips are ok but they aren't as good as blood ketone testers because they aren't always a true representative of the ketones in your blood. The pee strips will also show you "excess" ketones and can only be reflecting ketone levels from hours past. For myself after getting used to really analyzing the foods I'm eating and the exact grams of carbs I'm taking in I know where I'm at where I can start to have my ketone levels drop off pretty fast if I go over a certain amount of carbs a day. So once you get that dialed in you can get comfortable in knowing how much of what macros you can eat to stay in ketosis nice and strong. I have found all my fastest weight loss from between 1.3 to 2 ketones on the blood meter. If you want to compound the weight loss you can add exercise and if you want to really ramp up the weight loss you can add intermittent fasting to it too and tweek your calorie input to levels you want to be at to dial in your weight loss. They are a combination that is truly amazing what it does for fat loss, energy, and better health. I have found (along with a lot of others I know doing both keto and IF that there is a great need for electrolytes to help keep light headiness, dehydration away. I also drink a ton of water a day. Depending on what you want to eat for calories a day you may find that you can eat a 1/4 or 1/2 baked potato with fixings for supper as a side dish. You will just have to see how your ketones stay elevated while figuring out your macro ratios. For me I'm fine if I stay under 10% carbs but try to be closer to 5 to 8% mostly. And I work out with weights as I am also gaining lean muscle mass while dropping fat so I also ensure I consume at least .4 grams (up to 1 gram) of protein per day per pound of body weight I am. If you have issues consuming enough protein per day you can also add a whey protein to your diet to help with that. It's an easy and convenient way to boost up your protein levels when needed. I never have any troubles getting all the good fats I need cause I enjoy those foods and they are calorie dense so like you mentioned it takes less grams of them to get in what you need than other macros. Good luck on your weight loss! 16 -
annwyatt69 wrote: »My family (4 of us) started the Ketogenic Meal Plan three days ago. I, myself, have already seen a 6 pound weight loss. I'm sure this is mostly water. Today--the 3rd day I achieved ketosis and the ketones are at large. My family and I are focusing on keeping are macros in check--70% fat, 10% carbs, and 20% protein. I am a type I diabetic on an insulin pump and since starting my blood sugars have been completely level. I am not seeing the ups and downs that are normally seen after meals and the lows prior. Steady levels throughout. I also have decreased my insulin usage from about 37 units per day to 15 units per day. Interestingly no one in my family has felt hungry and the meal planning is a family thing. I find it interestingly also that my calories are pretty much equal to what I ate prior to starting, but I was gaining slowly and now I am losing. I also like the intermittent fasting and plan to do that whenever possible.
I am a T2D and was trying to lose weight and manage glucose levels. By monitoring with the meter, I found that the lower I kept the carbs, the more stable the glucose readings were. The keto diet looked like a solution for the weight loss and glucose control. I went with it.
I keep my carbs under 20 a day. My macros are 5% C, 60% F, and 35% P. I have lost a pound a week more or less since October of 2016 on keto. I had lost about 40 lbs pre-keto and before my T2D diagnosis. I am 116 lbs down total since I resolved to lose some weight in January of 2016.
My experience is that you have to watch the calories carefully (as I would expect). As I went into this I calculated basic caloric needs. I went with a daily 500 calorie deficit to meet the goal of losing a pound a week. Periodically I hit a plateau. After I notice the plateau and get tired enough of it to be motivated, I will drop the daily calorie intake by 200 and be really strict with measuring portions to get back on track. There is calorie creep in estimated servings (or mine anyway). That always gets the scales moving again.
I do find that for me the keto diet provides very good control of appetite, and I find the food satisfying. Neither of those might be true for someone else. For me keto is a good fit.10 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »VERY VERY simple science here people. Some of you posting here just don't understand it and or are just brainwashed into believing you HAVE to be in a caloric deficit to lose FAT. NO YOU DON'T. Try to read and understand what a TRULY KETO ADAPTED METABOLISM IS!!! YOU burn fat all day long even if you are NOT in a deficit!!!!
AND VERY VERY simple science how guys like me are gaining lean muscle mass WHILE losing FAT... Your muscles grow by being in sense "injured" while working out. Injured isn't a great term but in fact the muscles get tons of tiny tears in them and they require protein "amino acids" to repair those areas. As the muscles repair they grow and gain size and weight. All you need to do is find the right number of grams of protein to eat per lb of your body weight for your body to keep those muscles fed as you continue to lose body fat. Usually between .4 to 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. This Is not a new thing lol. Friends of mine have been doing this for quite awhile now. Just because you are losing FAT DOESN'T mean the muscles won't grow if you feed them and work them out. Your body will NOT go CATOTONIC IF IT IS IN A FULL KETO ADAPTED STATE AND YOU FEED YOURSELF ENOUGH PROTEIN!!!
No, I'm afraid you do have to be in a caloric deficit to lose weight. Your calories consumed (in)must be less than your calories out CI<CO. I'm a huge fan of keto, and have been doing it for a few years, but you still need to eat at a caloric deficit to lose weight.
That being said, some keto'ers, especially those with insulin resistance, find that a ketogenic diet allows them to eat more than they normally could while losing weight. For example, I had a deficit set to lose 1-1.5 lbs a week but lost 2-3 lbs on most weeks. I firmly believe that keto can affect some people's CO. The appetite suppressing benefits can also affect CI.
People can gain weight while ketogenic... it just doesn't happen often.
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PaulChasinDreams wrote: »VERY VERY simple science here people. Some of you posting here just don't understand it and or are just brainwashed into believing you HAVE to be in a caloric deficit to lose FAT. NO YOU DON'T. Try to read and understand what a TRULY KETO ADAPTED METABOLISM IS!!! YOU burn fat all day long even if you are NOT in a deficit!!!!
AND VERY VERY simple science how guys like me are gaining lean muscle mass WHILE losing FAT... Your muscles grow by being in sense "injured" while working out. Injured isn't a great term but in fact the muscles get tons of tiny tears in them and they require protein "amino acids" to repair those areas. As the muscles repair they grow and gain size and weight. All you need to do is find the right number of grams of protein to eat per lb of your body weight for your body to keep those muscles fed as you continue to lose body fat. Usually between .4 to 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. This Is not a new thing lol. Friends of mine have been doing this for quite awhile now. Just because you are losing FAT DOESN'T mean the muscles won't grow if you feed them and work them out. Your body will NOT go CATOTONIC IF IT IS IN A FULL KETO ADAPTED STATE AND YOU FEED YOURSELF ENOUGH PROTEIN!!!
No, I'm afraid you do have to be in a caloric deficit to lose weight. Your calories consumed (in)must be less than your calories out CI<CO. I'm a huge fan of keto, and have been doing it for a few years, but you still need to eat at a caloric deficit to lose weight.
That being said, some keto'ers, especially those with insulin resistance, find that a ketogenic diet allows them to eat more than they normally could while losing weight. For example, I had a deficit set to lose 1-1.5 lbs a week but lost 2-3 lbs on most weeks. I firmly believe that keto can affect some people's CO. The appetite suppressing benefits can also affect CI.
People can gain weight while ketogenic... it just doesn't happen often.
No I'm afraid you are very very wrong and there are tons of us doing keto combined with intermittent fasting and losing fat very rapidly with no caloric deficit. You and others can doubt it all you want and type it out that you can't but that doesn't change the fact that lots of us are doing it. And note I said "combined with keto" Only takes a few minutes for you yourself to do a search of peoples stories on line, pictures, videos etc of folks doing exactly that. I am living proof of it and have a nutritionist and doctor watching my weight loss, documenting it, and taking pictures of all the progress. As I have mentioned earlier I also do body composition imaging scans (Dexa) to track my fat loss and lean muscle mass gain. Also another rampant myth that people like to put out there is that you will lose muscle mass while losing fat and that you can't gain lean muscle mass while losing fat. A very very untrue statement as well. I suggest to you and others instead of believing reports and studies you read then trying to tell other people it's the gospel and only way that you yourself actually try to combine intermittent fasting with keto and just watch what happens. And also, once again I will repeat that I do a 23 to 23.5 hr fast between my meals. And my calories in vs calories out are almost always neutral even including exercise. As mentioned earlier every gram I eat is documented and weighed. Every calorie I burn is documented and measured. Also as I have previously mentioned not everyone is the same when it comes to intermittent fasting and a fully keto adapted metabolism. A lot of people doing keto find that they are lower in ketones in their waking hours and can fall out of ketosis at times even when getting the carbs very very low. Which in turns doesn't allow their metabolism to become truly Keto Adapted. They are in fact in ketosis some of the day where they are burning fat but one of the largest factors noted by my doctor and my nutritionist is that with the combination of intermittent fasting and keto eating is that I have been in ketosis from 1.3 to 2.4 ish every single day 24 hrs a day. No readings ever dipping under the Keto Adapted numbers. This is relatively new info to some out there but if you search around you will find a lot of us combining a high ratio intermittent fasting with keto are in 24 hr full Keto Adaptation. This may be some of the science going on with the very rapid fat loss while not having to have a caloric deficit. We all lose fat at different rates. My doctor is on record on my health file writing that he, in his medical career has not seen fat loss (not weight loss remember...this is all body comp scanned scientific results cause I am also gaining lean muscle mass) this fast other than by patients whom have had surgery. So not only the doctor is closely following the progress but a nutritionist and the body comp imaging tech is closely documenting it. Further to note is that when I started this 78 days ago I was pre diabetic with blood sugar from 110 to 120 regularly after a fast. I am currently always in my low to mid 80's now, no longer pre diabetic, and my blood pressure has gone from averages or around 145/90 to 118/72 currently. Proof is in the pudding as we say right? It is also closely documented that I was at times in caloric surplus over a two week test period and still dropped 3 lbs per week each of those weeks and that was after my water weight loss period had passed. So post all the studies you want and research you want. Live it, learn it, and see it for yourself if you truly want to know what's possible and is fact. There are tons of us doing this out there. Search and see for yourself. Furthermore if you read all I have posted you will see that I have stated there is a difference between just keto and keto combined with intermittent fasting. And all kinds of variables come into play with that.30 -
annwyatt69 wrote: »My family (4 of us) started the Ketogenic Meal Plan three days ago. I, myself, have already seen a 6 pound weight loss. I'm sure this is mostly water. Today--the 3rd day I achieved ketosis and the ketones are at large. My family and I are focusing on keeping are macros in check--70% fat, 10% carbs, and 20% protein. I am a type I diabetic on an insulin pump and since starting my blood sugars have been completely level. I am not seeing the ups and downs that are normally seen after meals and the lows prior. Steady levels throughout. I also have decreased my insulin usage from about 37 units per day to 15 units per day. Interestingly no one in my family has felt hungry and the meal planning is a family thing. I find it interestingly also that my calories are pretty much equal to what I ate prior to starting, but I was gaining slowly and now I am losing. I also like the intermittent fasting and plan to do that whenever possible.
I am a T2D and was trying to lose weight and manage glucose levels. By monitoring with the meter, I found that the lower I kept the carbs, the more stable the glucose readings were. The keto diet looked like a solution for the weight loss and glucose control. I went with it.
I keep my carbs under 20 a day. My macros are 5% C, 60% F, and 35% P. I have lost a pound a week more or less since October of 2016 on keto. I had lost about 40 lbs pre-keto and before my T2D diagnosis. I am 116 lbs down total since I resolved to lose some weight in January of 2016.
My experience is that you have to watch the calories carefully (as I would expect). As I went into this I calculated basic caloric needs. I went with a daily 500 calorie deficit to meet the goal of losing a pound a week. Periodically I hit a plateau. After I notice the plateau and get tired enough of it to be motivated, I will drop the daily calorie intake by 200 and be really strict with measuring portions to get back on track. There is calorie creep in estimated servings (or mine anyway). That always gets the scales moving again.
I do find that for me the keto diet provides very good control of appetite, and I find the food satisfying. Neither of those might be true for someone else. For me keto is a good fit.
Very inspiring with your weight loss. Congrats!! I was pre diabetic before doing keto/intermittent fasting and no longer am. No fatty liver, no high blood sugar anymore.
I'm curious, with your large amount of weight loss have you been able to get out of the diabetic state? Are you currently taking insulin or other medicines, or other?
I'm curious because I have a relative who had T2D and he was and still is a very thin, lean guy. 42 years old. No where near being obese but still had the Diabetes. He has been eating keto for only about 5 months and has completely reversed his T2D. He was on insulin and no longer takes that or any other meds. He went from a very high carb intake to barely any. Funny how so many folks say it's not possible to reverse it and that it's all fat related (of course obesity is a major player) but facts show that even skinny people have Diabetes and can still reverse it if they do what's needed to do so.6 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »VERY VERY simple science here people. Some of you posting here just don't understand it and or are just brainwashed into believing you HAVE to be in a caloric deficit to lose FAT. NO YOU DON'T. Try to read and understand what a TRULY KETO ADAPTED METABOLISM IS!!! YOU burn fat all day long even if you are NOT in a deficit!!!!
AND VERY VERY simple science how guys like me are gaining lean muscle mass WHILE losing FAT... Your muscles grow by being in sense "injured" while working out. Injured isn't a great term but in fact the muscles get tons of tiny tears in them and they require protein "amino acids" to repair those areas. As the muscles repair they grow and gain size and weight. All you need to do is find the right number of grams of protein to eat per lb of your body weight for your body to keep those muscles fed as you continue to lose body fat. Usually between .4 to 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. This Is not a new thing lol. Friends of mine have been doing this for quite awhile now. Just because you are losing FAT DOESN'T mean the muscles won't grow if you feed them and work them out. Your body will NOT go CATOTONIC IF IT IS IN A FULL KETO ADAPTED STATE AND YOU FEED YOURSELF ENOUGH PROTEIN!!!
No, I'm afraid you do have to be in a caloric deficit to lose weight. Your calories consumed (in)must be less than your calories out CI<CO. I'm a huge fan of keto, and have been doing it for a few years, but you still need to eat at a caloric deficit to lose weight.
That being said, some keto'ers, especially those with insulin resistance, find that a ketogenic diet allows them to eat more than they normally could while losing weight. For example, I had a deficit set to lose 1-1.5 lbs a week but lost 2-3 lbs on most weeks. I firmly believe that keto can affect some people's CO. The appetite suppressing benefits can also affect CI.
People can gain weight while ketogenic... it just doesn't happen often.
No I'm afraid you are very very wrong and there are tons of us doing keto combined with intermittent fasting and losing fat very rapidly with no caloric deficit. You and others can doubt it all you want and type it out that you can't but that doesn't change the fact that lots of us are doing it. And note I said "combined with keto" Only takes a few minutes for you yourself to do a search of peoples stories on line, pictures, videos etc of folks doing exactly that. I am living proof of it and have a nutritionist and doctor watching my weight loss, documenting it, and taking pictures of all the progress. As I have mentioned earlier I also do body composition imaging scans (Dexa) to track my fat loss and lean muscle mass gain. Also another rampant myth that people like to put out there is that you will lose muscle mass while losing fat and that you can't gain lean muscle mass while losing fat. A very very untrue statement as well. I suggest to you and others instead of believing reports and studies you read then trying to tell other people it's the gospel and only way that you yourself actually try to combine intermittent fasting with keto and just watch what happens. And also, once again I will repeat that I do a 23 to 23.5 hr fast between my meals. And my calories in vs calories out are almost always neutral even including exercise. As mentioned earlier every gram I eat is documented and weighed. Every calorie I burn is documented and measured. Also as I have previously mentioned not everyone is the same when it comes to intermittent fasting and a fully keto adapted metabolism. A lot of people doing keto find that they are lower in ketones in their waking hours and can fall out of ketosis at times even when getting the carbs very very low. Which in turns doesn't allow their metabolism to become truly Keto Adapted. They are in fact in ketosis some of the day where they are burning fat but one of the largest factors noted by my doctor and my nutritionist is that with the combination of intermittent fasting and keto eating is that I have been in ketosis from 1.3 to 2.4 ish every single day 24 hrs a day. No readings ever dipping under the Keto Adapted numbers. This is relatively new info to some out there but if you search around you will find a lot of us combining a high ratio intermittent fasting with keto are in 24 hr full Keto Adaptation. This may be some of the science going on with the very rapid fat loss while not having to have a caloric deficit. We all lose fat at different rates. My doctor is on record on my health file writing that he, in his medical career has not seen fat loss (not weight loss remember...this is all body comp scanned scientific results cause I am also gaining lean muscle mass) this fast other than by patients whom have had surgery. So not only the doctor is closely following the progress but a nutritionist and the body comp imaging tech is closely documenting it. Further to note is that when I started this 78 days ago I was pre diabetic with blood sugar from 110 to 120 regularly after a fast. I am currently always in my low to mid 80's now, no longer pre diabetic, and my blood pressure has gone from averages or around 145/90 to 118/72 currently. Proof is in the pudding as we say right? It is also closely documented that I was at times in caloric surplus over a two week test period and still dropped 3 lbs per week each of those weeks and that was after my water weight loss period had passed. So post all the studies you want and research you want. Live it, learn it, and see it for yourself if you truly want to know what's possible and is fact. There are tons of us doing this out there. Search and see for yourself. Furthermore if you read all I have posted you will see that I have stated there is a difference between just keto and keto combined with intermittent fasting. And all kinds of variables come into play with that.
Maybe you should share some of the extensive research you’ve done, rather than just talking about your anecdotal experience? You’re also arguing with one of the most vocal keto proponents on these boards... so that’s kind of fun to watch.19 -
Lyle McDonald has books on how to cycle a ketogenic diet to cut and bulk-calories do play a part.3
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PaulChasinDreams wrote: »
Very inspiring with your weight loss. Congrats!! I was pre diabetic before doing keto/intermittent fasting and no longer am. No fatty liver, no high blood sugar anymore.
I'm curious, with your large amount of weight loss have you been able to get out of the diabetic state? Are you currently taking insulin or other medicines, or other?
I'm curious because I have a relative who had T2D and he was and still is a very thin, lean guy. 42 years old. No where near being obese but still had the Diabetes. He has been eating keto for only about 5 months and has completely reversed his T2D. He was on insulin and no longer takes that or any other meds. He went from a very high carb intake to barely any. Funny how so many folks say it's not possible to reverse it and that it's all fat related (of course obesity is a major player) but facts show that even skinny people have Diabetes and can still reverse it if they do what's needed to do so.
I am completely off meds. I took metformin and then had it reduced. The doctor took me off of it in January, and my last A1C was 5.9 - so high normal. I am working on bringing it down some more. I still consider myself T2D, but I am just managing it with diet. Once I get to goal weight, I may see if I can tolerate a few more carbs in maintenance, but that is why I have the meter.
I managed to do all this in the span of less than 18 months since diagnosis. The weight loss helped, but even before losing weight, the diet brought down the glucose numbers dramatically and gave me a lot of motivation to stay with this diet. I tried the Diabetes Association diet initially because that is what the doctor gave me, and it really did not work for me or seem to help my numbers at all. I would have to check but I think I did not see a reading under 200 (fasting or otherwise) until I started restricting the carbs to 50 a day. I tried lower carb amounts to see if the downward trend would continue, and they did. I reduced carbs to 20 and formally adopted keto in October of 2016. Numbers then were very good and were reflected in subsequent A1C's.
4 -
Not one word of this has any scientific support. Nor does it make one bit of sense from a physiological standpoint.PaulChasinDreams wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »VERY VERY simple science here people. Some of you posting here just don't understand it and or are just brainwashed into believing you HAVE to be in a caloric deficit to lose FAT. NO YOU DON'T. Try to read and understand what a TRULY KETO ADAPTED METABOLISM IS!!! YOU burn fat all day long even if you are NOT in a deficit!!!!
AND VERY VERY simple science how guys like me are gaining lean muscle mass WHILE losing FAT... Your muscles grow by being in sense "injured" while working out. Injured isn't a great term but in fact the muscles get tons of tiny tears in them and they require protein "amino acids" to repair those areas. As the muscles repair they grow and gain size and weight. All you need to do is find the right number of grams of protein to eat per lb of your body weight for your body to keep those muscles fed as you continue to lose body fat. Usually between .4 to 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. This Is not a new thing lol. Friends of mine have been doing this for quite awhile now. Just because you are losing FAT DOESN'T mean the muscles won't grow if you feed them and work them out. Your body will NOT go CATOTONIC IF IT IS IN A FULL KETO ADAPTED STATE AND YOU FEED YOURSELF ENOUGH PROTEIN!!!
No, I'm afraid you do have to be in a caloric deficit to lose weight. Your calories consumed (in)must be less than your calories out CI<CO. I'm a huge fan of keto, and have been doing it for a few years, but you still need to eat at a caloric deficit to lose weight.
That being said, some keto'ers, especially those with insulin resistance, find that a ketogenic diet allows them to eat more than they normally could while losing weight. For example, I had a deficit set to lose 1-1.5 lbs a week but lost 2-3 lbs on most weeks. I firmly believe that keto can affect some people's CO. The appetite suppressing benefits can also affect CI.
People can gain weight while ketogenic... it just doesn't happen often.
No I'm afraid you are very very wrong and there are tons of us doing keto combined with intermittent fasting and losing fat very rapidly with no caloric deficit. You and others can doubt it all you want and type it out that you can't but that doesn't change the fact that lots of us are doing it. And note I said "combined with keto" Only takes a few minutes for you yourself to do a search of peoples stories on line, pictures, videos etc of folks doing exactly that. I am living proof of it and have a nutritionist and doctor watching my weight loss, documenting it, and taking pictures of all the progress. As I have mentioned earlier I also do body composition imaging scans (Dexa) to track my fat loss and lean muscle mass gain. Also another rampant myth that people like to put out there is that you will lose muscle mass while losing fat and that you can't gain lean muscle mass while losing fat. A very very untrue statement as well. I suggest to you and others instead of believing reports and studies you read then trying to tell other people it's the gospel and only way that you yourself actually try to combine intermittent fasting with keto and just watch what happens. And also, once again I will repeat that I do a 23 to 23.5 hr fast between my meals. And my calories in vs calories out are almost always neutral even including exercise. As mentioned earlier every gram I eat is documented and weighed. Every calorie I burn is documented and measured. Also as I have previously mentioned not everyone is the same when it comes to intermittent fasting and a fully keto adapted metabolism. A lot of people doing keto find that they are lower in ketones in their waking hours and can fall out of ketosis at times even when getting the carbs very very low. Which in turns doesn't allow their metabolism to become truly Keto Adapted. They are in fact in ketosis some of the day where they are burning fat but one of the largest factors noted by my doctor and my nutritionist is that with the combination of intermittent fasting and keto eating is that I have been in ketosis from 1.3 to 2.4 ish every single day 24 hrs a day. No readings ever dipping under the Keto Adapted numbers. This is relatively new info to some out there but if you search around you will find a lot of us combining a high ratio intermittent fasting with keto are in 24 hr full Keto Adaptation. This may be some of the science going on with the very rapid fat loss while not having to have a caloric deficit. We all lose fat at different rates. My doctor is on record on my health file writing that he, in his medical career has not seen fat loss (not weight loss remember...this is all body comp scanned scientific results cause I am also gaining lean muscle mass) this fast other than by patients whom have had surgery. So not only the doctor is closely following the progress but a nutritionist and the body comp imaging tech is closely documenting it. Further to note is that when I started this 78 days ago I was pre diabetic with blood sugar from 110 to 120 regularly after a fast. I am currently always in my low to mid 80's now, no longer pre diabetic, and my blood pressure has gone from averages or around 145/90 to 118/72 currently. Proof is in the pudding as we say right? It is also closely documented that I was at times in caloric surplus over a two week test period and still dropped 3 lbs per week each of those weeks and that was after my water weight loss period had passed. So post all the studies you want and research you want. Live it, learn it, and see it for yourself if you truly want to know what's possible and is fact. There are tons of us doing this out there. Search and see for yourself. Furthermore if you read all I have posted you will see that I have stated there is a difference between just keto and keto combined with intermittent fasting. And all kinds of variables come into play with that.
That's kinda the funniest part of it all. It's not like he's arguing with an opponent of keto, he's arguing with one of its staunchest, most unconditional supporters on MFP.WinoGelato wrote: »Maybe you should share some of the extensive research you’ve done, rather than just talking about your anecdotal experience? You’re also arguing with one of the most vocal keto proponents on these boards... so that’s kind of fun to watch.
And I'm still waiting for some research to be posted. So far I've seen nothing but unsubstantiated anecdotes. I could claim that I've got a 1,500 pound powerlifting total all I want to, but until I offer up some proof it's just internet bluster.10 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »akinastrong wrote: »I been on keto for 5 months now and I love it. prior to doing keto I could not stay away from carbs and sweets. a busy mom of two a 3 year old and a one year old keto was the best health choice I have ever made!!! I stick to 80%fat, 15% protein and 5% carb. the whole "caloric deficit " is a bunch of bull to me and I don't believe it at all. there is know way a person can prove how much calories you are burning through out the day. not one persons metabolic rate is the same and everyone does something different everyday so you cant put a straight number on it. and far as the studies read above the high carb and low carb yes its not different because "carbs is carbs" and what a lot of people are missing is keto is just not a low carb diet they key is a HIGH FAT diet. and your goal is to get into ketosis, that's where you start burning fat. Research high fat diet vs. low low carb diet and you will see the difference. I have lost 25lbs since starting keto and it was effortless I have also kicked the cravings for sweets and carbs. I have a ton more energy to play with my kids, and I don't wake up feeling like a zombie from having a rough night with my baby. Not to mention 23lbs of that was straight fat loss! We had a 12 week biggest loser at work majority were doing the low calories (eating like a bird) and doing no fat low carb, and protein diet. and i was doing keto with my butter, fatty stake, egg etc. everyone thought I was crazy. But the number and data don't lie! I won the fat loss and weight loss category. the others did lose weight but also lost a lot of muscle. I have 5 clients right now all only a month in and they all lost 5-13 lbs and 1-3.5 inches off their waist. So i am totally a keto advocate. seeing results with my clients and with my self also feeling the difference in my body and having clarity on keto compared to being on a non keto diet. Its very sustainable for me i don't need to worry about calories i just listen to my body i never did calorie restrict my self neither does my clients and we care getting amazing results!. I just eat when i'm hungry stop when im full. No starving trying to eat like a bird, being moody because you have to eat salads all day. just do your research and give it ago. and sorry so long lol really am passionate about it!
Obviously.
It's just too bad that all of that is incorrect and goes completely against physiology and the laws of energy balance. Magic doesn't exist, you have to be in a caloric deficit to lose weight. That's been scientifically proven over and over again. There is no "metabolic advantage" to a ketogenic diet, calories are calories.
Let's start here with some science:
https://shreddedbyscience.com/ketogenic-diets-actually-work-study-review/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16685046/
https://completehumanperformance.com/2013/07/23/why-calories-count/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316911061_A_Calorie_is_Still_a_Calorie_According_to_Rigorous_New_Evidence
http://georgiefear.com/2016/12/15/the-truth-about-ketogenic-dieting/
http://sciencedrivennutrition.com/do-carbohydrates-control-body-fat/
http://www.stephanguyenet.com/meta-analysis-impact-of-carbohydrate-vs-fat-calories-on-energy-expenditure-and-body-fatness/
So much B.S. here. PLEASE realize this guy is 100% wrong and I am 100% proof of it. Have been doing intermittent fasting and keto for 77 days as of today and have lost 47 lbs so far. Have not been in a caloric deficit at all. In fact a lot of days I am in a caloric surplus. Do some research on combining intermittent fasting with keto.
And as I've said on other threads. If this guy or anyone on this sight want to put some money where their mouth is I will put up $1000 to anyone here to prove what I've lost, how I've lost it, and in how long I've lost it. 100% B.S. that you HAVE to be in a caloric deficit to lose weight. Get your body into a FULL time keto adapted state and you will lose weight at an extrodinary rate. And if you want to gain muscle at the same time do that too by working out and making sure you eat at least between .4 to 1 gram of protein a day. I have been doing 5 to 10% carbs, 20 to 25% protein and around 70% good fats per day. Even with my exercise I still am not in a caloric deficit so don't believe everything you read here on this forum cause there is SO MUCH crap I am reading all over the place here. Best thing to do is try it and see what the truth is and if you want any guidance, advice, or info send me a message.
The power of combining intermittent fasting with keto is unbelievable powerful with fat loss, health, energy, muscle gain etc.. Just do a search online and read of all the people who report the incredible amazing results in their lives from it.
I do full body composition imaging scans to track my fat % loss and lean muscle mass gains. There is no better way to know for sure what's going on with your fat loss and muscle gains.
17 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »annwyatt69 wrote: »My family (4 of us) started the Ketogenic Meal Plan three days ago. I, myself, have already seen a 6 pound weight loss. I'm sure this is mostly water. Today--the 3rd day I achieved ketosis and the ketones are at large. My family and I are focusing on keeping are macros in check--70% fat, 10% carbs, and 20% protein. I am a type I diabetic on an insulin pump and since starting my blood sugars have been completely level. I am not seeing the ups and downs that are normally seen after meals and the lows prior. Steady levels throughout. I also have decreased my insulin usage from about 37 units per day to 15 units per day. Interestingly no one in my family has felt hungry and the meal planning is a family thing. I find it interestingly also that my calories are pretty much equal to what I ate prior to starting, but I was gaining slowly and now I am losing. I also like the intermittent fasting and plan to do that whenever possible.
I am a T2D and was trying to lose weight and manage glucose levels. By monitoring with the meter, I found that the lower I kept the carbs, the more stable the glucose readings were. The keto diet looked like a solution for the weight loss and glucose control. I went with it.
I keep my carbs under 20 a day. My macros are 5% C, 60% F, and 35% P. I have lost a pound a week more or less since October of 2016 on keto. I had lost about 40 lbs pre-keto and before my T2D diagnosis. I am 116 lbs down total since I resolved to lose some weight in January of 2016.
My experience is that you have to watch the calories carefully (as I would expect). As I went into this I calculated basic caloric needs. I went with a daily 500 calorie deficit to meet the goal of losing a pound a week. Periodically I hit a plateau. After I notice the plateau and get tired enough of it to be motivated, I will drop the daily calorie intake by 200 and be really strict with measuring portions to get back on track. There is calorie creep in estimated servings (or mine anyway). That always gets the scales moving again.
I do find that for me the keto diet provides very good control of appetite, and I find the food satisfying. Neither of those might be true for someone else. For me keto is a good fit.
Very inspiring with your weight loss. Congrats!! I was pre diabetic before doing keto/intermittent fasting and no longer am. No fatty liver, no high blood sugar anymore.
I'm curious, with your large amount of weight loss have you been able to get out of the diabetic state? Are you currently taking insulin or other medicines, or other
I'm curious because I have a relative who had T2D and he was and still is a very thin, lean guy. 42 years old. No where near being obese but still had the Diabetes. He has been eating keto for only about 5 months and has completely reversed his T2D. He was on insulin and no longer takes that or any other meds. He went from a very high carb intake to barely any. Funny how so many folks say it's not possible to reverse it and that it's all fat related (of course obesity is a major player) but facts show that even skinny people have Diabetes and can still reverse it if they do what's needed to do so.
Obesity is a major risk factor for developing T2 diabetes.
However that does not mean everyone who develops T2 diabetes is or was obese. Some were not, this is true.
For those who are not and who are , yes, i accept a low carb diet is benificial and may help control BSL's and result in reduced or no medications - diet controlled diabetes - wont be acheivable for everyone but will be for some.
However important to realise this is not reversing the diabetes - it is controlling it with diet. It has not gone away.
Insulin is also not always permanant - sometimes used short term in newly diagnosed diabetics to stabilise blood sugars more quickly. This is regardless of keto diets - have seen this used many times and none of the patients adopted a keto diet. They improved their diet and usually their activity level and reduced carbs and sometimes used oral meds as well as the insulin - but they did not go to a keto diet.
4 -
johnslater461 wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »akinastrong wrote: »I been on keto for 5 months now and I love it. prior to doing keto I could not stay away from carbs and sweets. a busy mom of two a 3 year old and a one year old keto was the best health choice I have ever made!!! I stick to 80%fat, 15% protein and 5% carb. the whole "caloric deficit " is a bunch of bull to me and I don't believe it at all. there is know way a person can prove how much calories you are burning through out the day. not one persons metabolic rate is the same and everyone does something different everyday so you cant put a straight number on it. and far as the studies read above the high carb and low carb yes its not different because "carbs is carbs" and what a lot of people are missing is keto is just not a low carb diet they key is a HIGH FAT diet. and your goal is to get into ketosis, that's where you start burning fat. Research high fat diet vs. low low carb diet and you will see the difference. I have lost 25lbs since starting keto and it was effortless I have also kicked the cravings for sweets and carbs. I have a ton more energy to play with my kids, and I don't wake up feeling like a zombie from having a rough night with my baby. Not to mention 23lbs of that was straight fat loss! We had a 12 week biggest loser at work majority were doing the low calories (eating like a bird) and doing no fat low carb, and protein diet. and i was doing keto with my butter, fatty stake, egg etc. everyone thought I was crazy. But the number and data don't lie! I won the fat loss and weight loss category. the others did lose weight but also lost a lot of muscle. I have 5 clients right now all only a month in and they all lost 5-13 lbs and 1-3.5 inches off their waist. So i am totally a keto advocate. seeing results with my clients and with my self also feeling the difference in my body and having clarity on keto compared to being on a non keto diet. Its very sustainable for me i don't need to worry about calories i just listen to my body i never did calorie restrict my self neither does my clients and we care getting amazing results!. I just eat when i'm hungry stop when im full. No starving trying to eat like a bird, being moody because you have to eat salads all day. just do your research and give it ago. and sorry so long lol really am passionate about it!
Obviously.
It's just too bad that all of that is incorrect and goes completely against physiology and the laws of energy balance. Magic doesn't exist, you have to be in a caloric deficit to lose weight. That's been scientifically proven over and over again. There is no "metabolic advantage" to a ketogenic diet, calories are calories.
Let's start here with some science:
https://shreddedbyscience.com/ketogenic-diets-actually-work-study-review/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16685046/
https://completehumanperformance.com/2013/07/23/why-calories-count/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316911061_A_Calorie_is_Still_a_Calorie_According_to_Rigorous_New_Evidence
http://georgiefear.com/2016/12/15/the-truth-about-ketogenic-dieting/
http://sciencedrivennutrition.com/do-carbohydrates-control-body-fat/
http://www.stephanguyenet.com/meta-analysis-impact-of-carbohydrate-vs-fat-calories-on-energy-expenditure-and-body-fatness/
So much B.S. here. PLEASE realize this guy is 100% wrong and I am 100% proof of it. Have been doing intermittent fasting and keto for 77 days as of today and have lost 47 lbs so far. Have not been in a caloric deficit at all. In fact a lot of days I am in a caloric surplus. Do some research on combining intermittent fasting with keto.
And as I've said on other threads. If this guy or anyone on this sight want to put some money where their mouth is I will put up $1000 to anyone here to prove what I've lost, how I've lost it, and in how long I've lost it. 100% B.S. that you HAVE to be in a caloric deficit to lose weight. Get your body into a FULL time keto adapted state and you will lose weight at an extrodinary rate. And if you want to gain muscle at the same time do that too by working out and making sure you eat at least between .4 to 1 gram of protein a day. I have been doing 5 to 10% carbs, 20 to 25% protein and around 70% good fats per day. Even with my exercise I still am not in a caloric deficit so don't believe everything you read here on this forum cause there is SO MUCH crap I am reading all over the place here. Best thing to do is try it and see what the truth is and if you want any guidance, advice, or info send me a message.
The power of combining intermittent fasting with keto is unbelievable powerful with fat loss, health, energy, muscle gain etc.. Just do a search online and read of all the people who report the incredible amazing results in their lives from it.
I do full body composition imaging scans to track my fat % loss and lean muscle mass gains. There is no better way to know for sure what's going on with your fat loss and muscle gains.
Great post and it really doesn't matter one bit what people who have zero experience doing what I and a ton of other people are doing say about it all. None of these people here who claim to know what they are talking about do long hour intermittent fasting/keto adapted living. They talk about it like they know but it is very very obvious they do not and only do so by reading other peoples posts, para phrase them, or quoting and/or linking some out dated blanket information that doesn't pertain at all to what I am talking about.
And anyone here who wants to learn more about intermittent fasting combined with keto can very very easily do some research on their own to find tons of results reflecting the same info I have been talking about. And I welcome and PM's as well. If I can help I'd be glad to. I have no ulterior motive. I am not selling anything lol. I could care less who does what with their weight loss. What I do care about is people knowing the truth of what has happened to me and others I know and mentor from just in case it can help a single person if they chose to go that route. And I care a great deal about people talking and shooting from the hip about something they have not done and no absolutely nothing about. Keto is Keto a lot of info about that. Intermittent fasting combined with Keto is a different thing all together.
What does matter is that at least some people that are here reading have other options to do with their body's what they want and to try for themselves. There has not been very many inventions, new creations, and technology expansion without people trying new things and often times thinking out of the box. It is the narrow minded narcissistic type of people who will not gain new knowledge, insight, new ideas or new ways of doing things. It is often unfortunately the follower mentality that leaves people from opening their minds as well. Going with the status quo so to speak.
Research and learn from trying. There is no other way on earth to get better, real true facts for your own body. You can read till your eyes fall out but the knowledge you gain will be a drop of water in the ocean compared to doing it yourself and learning from it.
22 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »
Very inspiring with your weight loss. Congrats!! I was pre diabetic before doing keto/intermittent fasting and no longer am. No fatty liver, no high blood sugar anymore.
I'm curious, with your large amount of weight loss have you been able to get out of the diabetic state? Are you currently taking insulin or other medicines, or other?
I'm curious because I have a relative who had T2D and he was and still is a very thin, lean guy. 42 years old. No where near being obese but still had the Diabetes. He has been eating keto for only about 5 months and has completely reversed his T2D. He was on insulin and no longer takes that or any other meds. He went from a very high carb intake to barely any. Funny how so many folks say it's not possible to reverse it and that it's all fat related (of course obesity is a major player) but facts show that even skinny people have Diabetes and can still reverse it if they do what's needed to do so.
I am completely off meds. I took metformin and then had it reduced. The doctor took me off of it in January, and my last A1C was 5.9 - so high normal. I am working on bringing it down some more. I still consider myself T2D, but I am just managing it with diet. Once I get to goal weight, I may see if I can tolerate a few more carbs in maintenance, but that is why I have the meter.
I managed to do all this in the span of less than 18 months since diagnosis. The weight loss helped, but even before losing weight, the diet brought down the glucose numbers dramatically and gave me a lot of motivation to stay with this diet. I tried the Diabetes Association diet initially because that is what the doctor gave me, and it really did not work for me or seem to help my numbers at all. I would have to check but I think I did not see a reading under 200 (fasting or otherwise) until I started restricting the carbs to 50 a day. I tried lower carb amounts to see if the downward trend would continue, and they did. I reduced carbs to 20 and formally adopted keto in October of 2016. Numbers then were very good and were reflected in subsequent A1C's.
Amazing and very inspiring. Thanks for sharing your story with us.2 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »akinastrong wrote: »I been on keto for 5 months now and I love it. prior to doing keto I could not stay away from carbs and sweets. a busy mom of two a 3 year old and a one year old keto was the best health choice I have ever made!!! I stick to 80%fat, 15% protein and 5% carb. the whole "caloric deficit " is a bunch of bull to me and I don't believe it at all. there is know way a person can prove how much calories you are burning through out the day. not one persons metabolic rate is the same and everyone does something different everyday so you cant put a straight number on it. and far as the studies read above the high carb and low carb yes its not different because "carbs is carbs" and what a lot of people are missing is keto is just not a low carb diet they key is a HIGH FAT diet. and your goal is to get into ketosis, that's where you start burning fat. Research high fat diet vs. low low carb diet and you will see the difference. I have lost 25lbs since starting keto and it was effortless I have also kicked the cravings for sweets and carbs. I have a ton more energy to play with my kids, and I don't wake up feeling like a zombie from having a rough night with my baby. Not to mention 23lbs of that was straight fat loss! We had a 12 week biggest loser at work majority were doing the low calories (eating like a bird) and doing no fat low carb, and protein diet. and i was doing keto with my butter, fatty stake, egg etc. everyone thought I was crazy. But the number and data don't lie! I won the fat loss and weight loss category. the others did lose weight but also lost a lot of muscle. I have 5 clients right now all only a month in and they all lost 5-13 lbs and 1-3.5 inches off their waist. So i am totally a keto advocate. seeing results with my clients and with my self also feeling the difference in my body and having clarity on keto compared to being on a non keto diet. Its very sustainable for me i don't need to worry about calories i just listen to my body i never did calorie restrict my self neither does my clients and we care getting amazing results!. I just eat when i'm hungry stop when im full. No starving trying to eat like a bird, being moody because you have to eat salads all day. just do your research and give it ago. and sorry so long lol really am passionate about it!
Obviously.
It's just too bad that all of that is incorrect and goes completely against physiology and the laws of energy balance. Magic doesn't exist, you have to be in a caloric deficit to lose weight. That's been scientifically proven over and over again. There is no "metabolic advantage" to a ketogenic diet, calories are calories.
Let's start here with some science:
https://shreddedbyscience.com/ketogenic-diets-actually-work-study-review/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16685046/
https://completehumanperformance.com/2013/07/23/why-calories-count/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316911061_A_Calorie_is_Still_a_Calorie_According_to_Rigorous_New_Evidence
http://georgiefear.com/2016/12/15/the-truth-about-ketogenic-dieting/
http://sciencedrivennutrition.com/do-carbohydrates-control-body-fat/
http://www.stephanguyenet.com/meta-analysis-impact-of-carbohydrate-vs-fat-calories-on-energy-expenditure-and-body-fatness/
So much B.S. here. PLEASE realize this guy is 100% wrong and I am 100% proof of it. Have been doing intermittent fasting and keto for 77 days as of today and have lost 47 lbs so far. Have not been in a caloric deficit at all. In fact a lot of days I am in a caloric surplus. Do some research on combining intermittent fasting with keto.
And as I've said on other threads. If this guy or anyone on this sight want to put some money where their mouth is I will put up $1000 to anyone here to prove what I've lost, how I've lost it, and in how long I've lost it. 100% B.S. that you HAVE to be in a caloric deficit to lose weight. Get your body into a FULL time keto adapted state and you will lose weight at an extrodinary rate. And if you want to gain muscle at the same time do that too by working out and making sure you eat at least between .4 to 1 gram of protein a day. I have been doing 5 to 10% carbs, 20 to 25% protein and around 70% good fats per day. Even with my exercise I still am not in a caloric deficit so don't believe everything you read here on this forum cause there is SO MUCH crap I am reading all over the place here. Best thing to do is try it and see what the truth is and if you want any guidance, advice, or info send me a message.
The power of combining intermittent fasting with keto is unbelievable powerful with fat loss, health, energy, muscle gain etc.. Just do a search online and read of all the people who report the incredible amazing results in their lives from it.
I do full body composition imaging scans to track my fat % loss and lean muscle mass gains. There is no better way to know for sure what's going on with your fat loss and muscle gains.
Great post and it really doesn't matter one bit what people who have zero experience doing what I and a ton of other people are doing say about it all. None of these people here who claim to know what they are talking about do long hour intermittent fasting/keto adapted living. They talk about it like they know but it is very very obvious they do not and only do so by reading other peoples posts, para phrase them, or quoting and/or linking some out dated blanket information that doesn't pertain at all to what I am talking about.
And anyone here who wants to learn more about intermittent fasting combined with keto can very very easily do some research on their own to find tons of results reflecting the same info I have been talking about. And I welcome and PM's as well. If I can help I'd be glad to. I have no ulterior motive. I am not selling anything lol. I could care less who does what with their weight loss. What I do care about is people knowing the truth of what has happened to me and others I know and mentor from just in case it can help a single person if they chose to go that route. And I care a great deal about people talking and shooting from the hip about something they have not done and no absolutely nothing about. Keto is Keto a lot of info about that. Intermittent fasting combined with Keto is a different thing all together.
What does matter is that at least some people that are here reading have other options to do with their body's what they want and to try for themselves. There has not been very many inventions, new creations, and technology expansion without people trying new things and often times thinking out of the box. It is the narrow minded narcissistic type of people who will not gain new knowledge, insight, new ideas or new ways of doing things. It is often unfortunately the follower mentality that leaves people from opening their minds as well. Going with the status quo so to speak.
Research and learn from trying. There is no other way on earth to get better, real true facts for your own body. You can read till your eyes fall out but the knowledge you gain will be a drop of water in the ocean compared to doing it yourself and learning from it.
Dude, just because you rant and rave and write the great wall o text doesn't make you right. You discount the whole discipline of scientific research in favor of your n=1 anecdotes. It just doesn't hold water.
And yes, it is quite the fun experience to watch you tell a major advocate and long term practitioner of keto that she is wrong!
So, rant on.14 -
akinastrong wrote: »
ksingingflutelady wrote: »akinastrong wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »akinastrong wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »akinastrong wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »@akinastrong Calories do matter.
I never said it didn't matter I just said I don't tract mine and restrict my calories because keto naturally suppresses my and my clients appetite.
Clients?! I hope you are referring to keto os or some other mlm type of clients......
Clients meaning people I'm am helping with the diet. And track there progress
You've been on keto for 4.5 months......
And you point is?
I personally would only pay for nutritional or fitness advice from people who have a lot more than 4.5 months of training.
First of all you have no idea the amount of research I have done prior to getting into the ketogenic diet and how long I've been researching prior to getting into it. You don't know my spouse and how long he's been doing it and then research he's put into it and you know what that's the problem with you guys on here you guys are too quick to judge and put people down to make yourself feel better and smarter I simply just shared my experience nothing more and this is the kind of backlash I get for doing so. And for your information I don't charge my clients I do it simply because I would like to see them healthier and feeling better and confident in their own skin. I have done my research and I know a lot about the diet I don't know it all but I do know a lot which is by myself and my clients never went through the keto flu or had any gut issues with the ketogenic diet. Some of you on here are just absolutely ridiculous Community post like this are supposed to be encouraging to help others but you guys in the other hand batch and belittle you guys should try in couraging someone for a change you might just feel better about your self
I don't think people are bashing you by any means. What I have seen, is people making corrections to some of your statements. Often people take corrections as criticism when confronted with scientific evidence that are contrary to their current beliefs. In my personal opinion, having a discussion including all aspects of nutrition and eliminating emotion from the discussion is the best way to grow. Many of us believe myths because it's working; I used to believe that you need to increase meal frequency to increase metabolism (boy was I wrong). But we tend to follow and listen to advice that supports our own opinions and views.
I am very glad that what you have discovered has worked for you. But keep in mind, that you are still very new to the diet and losing weight is the easy part, while maintaining is the hard part. I am one of those people are not satiated by fats. I need starchy carbs, higher protein (~1g/lb) and high fiber (~20-40g). I have lost 50 lbs and kept it off for over 6 or 7 years now following a moderate carb/higher protein diet. I am roughly 16% body fat and at a 32" inseam from a 38" at my highest point; currently, I am focused on lifting while doing a bit of recomp and or minor cutting.
I have tried many diets over my 9 years of doing of starting this and have done a ton of personal research. I have done IF, Paleo, and tried low carb. All of those were significant failures for me. I never saw suppressed appetite while fasting (it just made me hungrier), even after 3 months of it. I was constantly starving and had low energy with low carb even with keeping sodium in the 5000mg range. The fact is, all of those diets, just like all diets, have different impacts on how people feel and how sustainable they are will depend on the individual. Keto is no different. It still has a 80-90% failure rate.
But when calories and protein is controlled, there is no fat loss difference between the two. Calories do matter, as demonstrated by thousands of metabolic ward and energy balance studies (https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/95/4/989/4576902) . These are facts, and only disputed by those trying to sell lifestyles (typically MD's, who don't have a background in nutritional sciences and metabolism (i.e., Dr. Fung)). Either way, regardless if you believe the science or not, if you enjoy your current eating style and feel its sustainable, then it's the best approach for you.
Now how does this apply to the OP? Simple, there is nothing we can say that will change the outcome. She will need to try to diet, if she feels it's right for her, to evaluate if it is. Your success and my successes are going to be completely different than others. I hope the OP finds a solution, but personally, I would never do keto. And trust me, I keep thinking about trying it, but I am a volume eater and fats are really expensive. It also makes me sad that I would have to cut out a ton of fruit, of which, I eat 3-7 servings of a day. I, also, don't want to take a step backwards on my lifting. Of the little evidence that does exist, anaerobic performance may be inhibited by keto diets. And even at best, muscle gains are not as easily obtained with keto diets (although, we can tailor those debates to: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10611377/anyone-read-the-latest-research-on-keto-by-alan-aragon/p1)
And when I say bashing I'm talking about the belittling I got for my experience and the way I like to do things there is no one right way so people shouldn't be putting others down because they don't agree with the way somebody is doing something. But like I said at the bottom of my comment she just needs to try it out and go from there. As far as all of the evidence there is out there in the studies that people done it doesn't really matter to me because I'm doing it. And it's working. When people say keto they just think a lot of fat low carb smart to it than just that for me personally I don't just eat fat all day I eat and drink specific things at certain times especially with the fasting. You can't just eat fat all day and eat whatever vegetables you feel like while fasting on keto there certain vegetables you need for key nutrients. So my body always have the electrolytes and nutrients that it needs throughout the day. Which is the reason I had such a successful transition and none of the symptoms you hear out there that people get. I have dialed it down and that's how I do keto and fasting. As far as muscle building I've never felt as hard and toned as I do now. Even before the kids when I was really big into fitness and weight training. I have lost fat while preserving and building muscle. And I'm not saying that just because I'm looking at myself I say it because it's facts. I have been getting it checked. That's me and my clients. So to say I'm wrong based on all the studies out there that contradict My outcome I don't know what to say. Except I'm doing it i feel amazing and getting amazing results! I never thought i could get my body and you spot after having two babies back to back. And I prove myself wrong everyday. There are a lot of myths out there and a lot of old ways that people are stuck in. Need to try it and do it correctly and go from there not just with keto with anything.17 -
Quick question for all of MFP. Say you're trying something. You eat 2000 calories on Monday, you burn 2000 calories on Monday. And then you fast on Tuesday, but your body burns 1700 calories. Wednesday, you do what you did on Monday, Thursday is a repeat of Tuesday and so on.
Are you eating at deficit or not?
This is only a trick question for some people, it seems.8 -
That part is definitely correct.akinastrong wrote: »...There are a lot of myths out there...
You and the other poster have thrown up anecdote after anecdote, and lots of wild pie-in-the-sky claims. But neither of you have ever yet posted even a sniff of scientific proof to back up what you're saying. Not one. I'd think if the evidence is so overpowering as to convince you to this point, you'd have mountains of research at your fingertips that you utilized to reach such utter, near-religious conviction. But nothing. Just anecdote after anecdote with no proof whatsoever, but anybody who doesn't blindly believe you is "brainwashed" or "closed minded" because they're "stuck in their old ways" (in other words, they believe in actual science). That sounds positively cult-ish, or else we're being trolled on an epic scale. I'm not sure which of those two possibilities I believe more. The latter would actually make more sense, to be honest.
We've got rainbow-colored Unicorns flying around in the sky with purple wombats on their backs juggling armadillos. There are no pictures of them and there's no zoological evidence that rainbow-colored Unicorns exist, but they're there because I said they are. If you don't believe me, you're brainwashed and closed-minded and stuck in your old ways.
How much sense does that make?18 -
akinastrong wrote: »akinastrong wrote: »
ksingingflutelady wrote: »akinastrong wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »akinastrong wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »akinastrong wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »@akinastrong Calories do matter.
I never said it didn't matter I just said I don't tract mine and restrict my calories because keto naturally suppresses my and my clients appetite.
Clients?! I hope you are referring to keto os or some other mlm type of clients......
Clients meaning people I'm am helping with the diet. And track there progress
You've been on keto for 4.5 months......
And you point is?
I personally would only pay for nutritional or fitness advice from people who have a lot more than 4.5 months of training.
First of all you have no idea the amount of research I have done prior to getting into the ketogenic diet and how long I've been researching prior to getting into it. You don't know my spouse and how long he's been doing it and then research he's put into it and you know what that's the problem with you guys on here you guys are too quick to judge and put people down to make yourself feel better and smarter I simply just shared my experience nothing more and this is the kind of backlash I get for doing so. And for your information I don't charge my clients I do it simply because I would like to see them healthier and feeling better and confident in their own skin. I have done my research and I know a lot about the diet I don't know it all but I do know a lot which is by myself and my clients never went through the keto flu or had any gut issues with the ketogenic diet. Some of you on here are just absolutely ridiculous Community post like this are supposed to be encouraging to help others but you guys in the other hand batch and belittle you guys should try in couraging someone for a change you might just feel better about your self
I don't think people are bashing you by any means. What I have seen, is people making corrections to some of your statements. Often people take corrections as criticism when confronted with scientific evidence that are contrary to their current beliefs. In my personal opinion, having a discussion including all aspects of nutrition and eliminating emotion from the discussion is the best way to grow. Many of us believe myths because it's working; I used to believe that you need to increase meal frequency to increase metabolism (boy was I wrong). But we tend to follow and listen to advice that supports our own opinions and views.
I am very glad that what you have discovered has worked for you. But keep in mind, that you are still very new to the diet and losing weight is the easy part, while maintaining is the hard part. I am one of those people are not satiated by fats. I need starchy carbs, higher protein (~1g/lb) and high fiber (~20-40g). I have lost 50 lbs and kept it off for over 6 or 7 years now following a moderate carb/higher protein diet. I am roughly 16% body fat and at a 32" inseam from a 38" at my highest point; currently, I am focused on lifting while doing a bit of recomp and or minor cutting.
I have tried many diets over my 9 years of doing of starting this and have done a ton of personal research. I have done IF, Paleo, and tried low carb. All of those were significant failures for me. I never saw suppressed appetite while fasting (it just made me hungrier), even after 3 months of it. I was constantly starving and had low energy with low carb even with keeping sodium in the 5000mg range. The fact is, all of those diets, just like all diets, have different impacts on how people feel and how sustainable they are will depend on the individual. Keto is no different. It still has a 80-90% failure rate.
But when calories and protein is controlled, there is no fat loss difference between the two. Calories do matter, as demonstrated by thousands of metabolic ward and energy balance studies (https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/95/4/989/4576902) . These are facts, and only disputed by those trying to sell lifestyles (typically MD's, who don't have a background in nutritional sciences and metabolism (i.e., Dr. Fung)). Either way, regardless if you believe the science or not, if you enjoy your current eating style and feel its sustainable, then it's the best approach for you.
Now how does this apply to the OP? Simple, there is nothing we can say that will change the outcome. She will need to try to diet, if she feels it's right for her, to evaluate if it is. Your success and my successes are going to be completely different than others. I hope the OP finds a solution, but personally, I would never do keto. And trust me, I keep thinking about trying it, but I am a volume eater and fats are really expensive. It also makes me sad that I would have to cut out a ton of fruit, of which, I eat 3-7 servings of a day. I, also, don't want to take a step backwards on my lifting. Of the little evidence that does exist, anaerobic performance may be inhibited by keto diets. And even at best, muscle gains are not as easily obtained with keto diets (although, we can tailor those debates to: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10611377/anyone-read-the-latest-research-on-keto-by-alan-aragon/p1)
And when I say bashing I'm talking about the belittling I got for my experience and the way I like to do things there is no one right way so people shouldn't be putting others down because they don't agree with the way somebody is doing something. But like I said at the bottom of my comment she just needs to try it out and go from there. As far as all of the evidence there is out there in the studies that people done it doesn't really matter to me because I'm doing it. And it's working. When people say keto they just think a lot of fat low carb smart to it than just that for me personally I don't just eat fat all day I eat and drink specific things at certain times especially with the fasting. You can't just eat fat all day and eat whatever vegetables you feel like while fasting on keto there certain vegetables you need for key nutrients. So my body always have the electrolytes and nutrients that it needs throughout the day. Which is the reason I had such a successful transition and none of the symptoms you hear out there that people get. I have dialed it down and that's how I do keto and fasting. As far as muscle building I've never felt as hard and toned as I do now. Even before the kids when I was really big into fitness and weight training. I have lost fat while preserving and building muscle. And I'm not saying that just because I'm looking at myself I say it because it's facts. I have been getting it checked. That's me and my clients. So to say I'm wrong based on all the studies out there that contradict My outcome I don't know what to say. Except I'm doing it i feel amazing and getting amazing results! I never thought i could get my body and you spot after having two babies back to back. And I prove myself wrong everyday. There are a lot of myths out there and a lot of old ways that people are stuck in. Need to try it and do it correctly and go from there not just with keto with anything.
I am not sure you read my post. I am not doubting your experience or suggesting what you are doing is wrong. Keto is a viable option. I am staying that it still comea down to calories. If fat satiates you, than its a great option. Its no less of a good option as vegan, IIFYM, paleo, and much more. All theae diets have their benefits to the individual.
And i am very familiar with the keto diet have personally trained several people following the diet. This also includes setting up training protocols to address their goals. This includes getting several women to get down to 14 -16% body fat. In fact, i recomped one of my clients where she gained 10lbs of lbm and lost 10% body fat over an 18 month period; albeit, whe was higher carb. I incorporate things like refeeds, cycling and much more. This includes working with people with POTS (my wife), diabetes, PCOS, and more.
I can assure you, i am the last one that would belittle ones experience. I realize there are a ton of variables when it comes to success, well outside of just calories.12 -
DropsofKrypton65 wrote: »Hi. Yesterday was my first day on this app. My diet actually started in Feb with my doctor. My calorie ratio is 25% carb, 30% fat, 45% protein. If you are eating 1200 calories a day (like me), you would be allowed 75g of carbs. (25% of 1200= 300. 300/4 (because there is 4 calories in each gram) = 75g). Animal fat is bad (meat, dairy), this is why you want skim milk, lean meats, etc. However, fat from nuts, avocados, fish, whole eggs, etc, are all good fats with lots of extra healthy stuff in them. You need fat to burn fat, just make sure it's the good stuff. =D
OP, someone else's doctor's advice for them is not advice for you.8 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »akinastrong wrote: »I been on keto for 5 months now and I love it. prior to doing keto I could not stay away from carbs and sweets. a busy mom of two a 3 year old and a one year old keto was the best health choice I have ever made!!! I stick to 80%fat, 15% protein and 5% carb. the whole "caloric deficit " is a bunch of bull to me and I don't believe it at all. there is know way a person can prove how much calories you are burning through out the day. not one persons metabolic rate is the same and everyone does something different everyday so you cant put a straight number on it. and far as the studies read above the high carb and low carb yes its not different because "carbs is carbs" and what a lot of people are missing is keto is just not a low carb diet they key is a HIGH FAT diet. and your goal is to get into ketosis, that's where you start burning fat. Research high fat diet vs. low low carb diet and you will see the difference. I have lost 25lbs since starting keto and it was effortless I have also kicked the cravings for sweets and carbs. I have a ton more energy to play with my kids, and I don't wake up feeling like a zombie from having a rough night with my baby. Not to mention 23lbs of that was straight fat loss! We had a 12 week biggest loser at work majority were doing the low calories (eating like a bird) and doing no fat low carb, and protein diet. and i was doing keto with my butter, fatty stake, egg etc. everyone thought I was crazy. But the number and data don't lie! I won the fat loss and weight loss category. the others did lose weight but also lost a lot of muscle. I have 5 clients right now all only a month in and they all lost 5-13 lbs and 1-3.5 inches off their waist. So i am totally a keto advocate. seeing results with my clients and with my self also feeling the difference in my body and having clarity on keto compared to being on a non keto diet. Its very sustainable for me i don't need to worry about calories i just listen to my body i never did calorie restrict my self neither does my clients and we care getting amazing results!. I just eat when i'm hungry stop when im full. No starving trying to eat like a bird, being moody because you have to eat salads all day. just do your research and give it ago. and sorry so long lol really am passionate about it!
Obviously.
It's just too bad that all of that is incorrect and goes completely against physiology and the laws of energy balance. Magic doesn't exist, you have to be in a caloric deficit to lose weight. That's been scientifically proven over and over again. There is no "metabolic advantage" to a ketogenic diet, calories are calories.
Let's start here with some science:
https://shreddedbyscience.com/ketogenic-diets-actually-work-study-review/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16685046/
https://completehumanperformance.com/2013/07/23/why-calories-count/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316911061_A_Calorie_is_Still_a_Calorie_According_to_Rigorous_New_Evidence
http://georgiefear.com/2016/12/15/the-truth-about-ketogenic-dieting/
http://sciencedrivennutrition.com/do-carbohydrates-control-body-fat/
http://www.stephanguyenet.com/meta-analysis-impact-of-carbohydrate-vs-fat-calories-on-energy-expenditure-and-body-fatness/
So much B.S. here. PLEASE realize this guy is 100% wrong and I am 100% proof of it. Have been doing intermittent fasting and keto for 77 days as of today and have lost 47 lbs so far. Have not been in a caloric deficit at all. In fact a lot of days I am in a caloric surplus. Do some research on combining intermittent fasting with keto.
And as I've said on other threads. If this guy or anyone on this sight want to put some money where their mouth is I will put up $1000 to anyone here to prove what I've lost, how I've lost it, and in how long I've lost it. 100% B.S. that you HAVE to be in a caloric deficit to lose weight. Get your body into a FULL time keto adapted state and you will lose weight at an extrodinary rate. And if you want to gain muscle at the same time do that too by working out and making sure you eat at least between .4 to 1 gram of protein a day. I have been doing 5 to 10% carbs, 20 to 25% protein and around 70% good fats per day. Even with my exercise I still am not in a caloric deficit so don't believe everything you read here on this forum cause there is SO MUCH crap I am reading all over the place here. Best thing to do is try it and see what the truth is and if you want any guidance, advice, or info send me a message.
The power of combining intermittent fasting with keto is unbelievable powerful with fat loss, health, energy, muscle gain etc.. Just do a search online and read of all the people who report the incredible amazing results in their lives from it.
I do full body composition imaging scans to track my fat % loss and lean muscle mass gains. There is no better way to know for sure what's going on with your fat loss and muscle gains.
Great post and it really doesn't matter one bit what people who have zero experience doing what I and a ton of other people are doing say about it all. None of these people here who claim to know what they are talking about do long hour intermittent fasting/keto adapted living. They talk about it like they know but it is very very obvious they do not and only do so by reading other peoples posts, para phrase them, or quoting and/or linking some out dated blanket information that doesn't pertain at all to what I am talking about.
And anyone here who wants to learn more about intermittent fasting combined with keto can very very easily do some research on their own to find tons of results reflecting the same info I have been talking about. And I welcome and PM's as well. If I can help I'd be glad to. I have no ulterior motive. I am not selling anything lol. I could care less who does what with their weight loss. What I do care about is people knowing the truth of what has happened to me and others I know and mentor from just in case it can help a single person if they chose to go that route. And I care a great deal about people talking and shooting from the hip about something they have not done and no absolutely nothing about. Keto is Keto a lot of info about that. Intermittent fasting combined with Keto is a different thing all together.
What does matter is that at least some people that are here reading have other options to do with their body's what they want and to try for themselves. There has not been very many inventions, new creations, and technology expansion without people trying new things and often times thinking out of the box. It is the narrow minded narcissistic type of people who will not gain new knowledge, insight, new ideas or new ways of doing things. It is often unfortunately the follower mentality that leaves people from opening their minds as well. Going with the status quo so to speak.
Research and learn from trying. There is no other way on earth to get better, real true facts for your own body. You can read till your eyes fall out but the knowledge you gain will be a drop of water in the ocean compared to doing it yourself and learning from it.
Wait. You thought that was real?
Hilarious
7
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