"Natural foods" vs "others"

If we're talking strictly weight loss and calories, of course it doesn't matter.

If we're talking health... I personally believe that any foods or ingredients that are created entirely artificially, ie. do not occur in nature in any form, cannot be good for you. I'm not a microbiologist so I won't claim to know exactly how they affect your body, but it sort of makes sense that we are not meant to eat non-food substances - and these are essentially what those are. For me personally, it grosses me out to be eating these, we don't consume them or buy them in our family aside from rare occasions.

For me, that includes things such as artificial flavorings, artificial colors, artificial preservatives, high corn fructose syrup, artificial sweeteners. Some of the foods we almost never buy or eat are soda, artificially colored/flavored candy/cookies/snacks, junk food like Doritos/ cheetos etc (all-natural tortilla or potato chips very rarely), Wonderbread-style bread, fat free yogurts with added starch/sugar/gelatin, American processed cheese slices, and most fast food chains, among others.

I stand by the opinion that all that stuff is not food, and should never have been created or marketed as food to begin with. I think it is silly to argue that, I don't know, chicken or broccoli is no better than a pack of Hot Cheetos. Artificial ingredients have no real nutrition or benefits to the body (unless artificially 'enriched' and that's questionable) and were only created as palate-pleasing profit-makers and nothing more.

nettiklive wrote: »

If we're talking strictly weight loss and calories, of course it doesn't matter.

If we're talking health... I personally believe that any foods or ingredients that are created entirely artificially, ie. do not occur in nature in any form, cannot be good for you.

I'd be willing to bet when you need medication you will be thanking the labs that created it when you feel better.

WinoGelato wrote: »

nettiklive wrote: »

If we're talking strictly weight loss and calories, of course it doesn't matter.

If we're talking health... I personally believe that any foods or ingredients that are created entirely artificially, ie. do not occur in nature in any form, cannot be good for you. I'm not a microbiologist so I won't claim to know exactly how they affect your body, but it sort of makes sense that we are not meant to eat non-food substances - and these are essentially what those are. For me personally, it grosses me out to be eating these, we don't consume them or buy them in our family aside from rare occasions.

For me, that includes things such as artificial flavorings, artificial colors, artificial preservatives, high corn fructose syrup, artificial sweeteners. Some of the foods we almost never buy or eat are soda, artificially colored/flavored candy/cookies/snacks, junk food like Doritos/ cheetos etc (all-natural tortilla or potato chips very rarely), Wonderbread-style bread, fat free yogurts with added starch/sugar/gelatin, American processed cheese slices, and most fast food chains, among others.

I stand by the opinion that all that stuff is not food, and should never have been created or marketed as food to begin with. I think it is silly to argue that, I don't know, chicken or broccoli is no better than a pack of Hot Cheetos. Artificial ingredients have no real nutrition or benefits to the body (unless artificially 'enriched' and that's questionable) and were only created as palate-pleasing profit-makers and nothing more.

Ahhh I see we are playing the straw man argument game again... please point out where anyone has said that there is no difference whatsoever in chicken and broccoli vs cheetohs?

The rest of it is just silly fear mongering nonsense. Spend a little less time on the FoodBabe website and maybe think a little bit about what preservatives were originally invented for, and then tell us that there’s no benefits to the fact that we now have shelf stable foods that can be transported all over the world to people who might otherwise have no access to “natural” foods and potable water, things like that.

Sure, what does that have to do with it??
Speaking of strawmen.

It's great that people with no access to food or water can benefit from these types of foods rather than starve. For them it provides a clear benefit.

What benefit do preservatives provide for me as a first world country resident who has access to food in its natural state?

@nettiklive

I should have known better. I blame being sick on my lapse of judgment in engaging here.

You know what? I don't care. You can be afraid of whatever you want in the name of health. You are better informed than us unenlightened folks. I might as well be trying to convince an alien enthusiast that... well aliens are real... never mind.

I will throw all of my support behind @WinoGelato though. Not that she needs it.

bpetrosky wrote: »

I stand by the opinion that you feel better only because you get to indulge in virtue signalling by your food choices and looking down on other people's food choices.

Yep. Elitism. I am better because I judge you to be worse. Let's keep the evil toxins and get rid of elitism.

Keto_Vampire wrote: »

No FDA definition of natural...it's marketing BS

https://fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/LabelingNutrition/ucm456090.htm

I don't need definitions or labels to tell me if a product is natural or not... I can read an ingredient list.
"Marketing BS" is dyeing macaroni with fake orange coloring pretending it's cheese. Or "cream" filled cakes that are shelf-stable and don't expire for years. Or selling 'healthy' yogurt where they replace the fat with a metric ton of sugar and thickeners because they're afraid people won't buy the yogurt if it actually tastes like, you know, yogurt. There is no good reason to add artificial colors or flavors to anything, except marketing.

Things like Amy's frozen meals ARE in fact, made from only natural ingredients. Kraft dinner is not. I do try to cook most meals from scratch but I do stock convenience foods like that on hand for those rushed times, and when I buy those, I read labels and choose those without artificial additives in the ingredient list. I like TJ's for that reason, as all their frozen and convenience meals have natural ingredients only. I choose yogurt that has nothing but milk and cultures, and bread that has only ingredients one would use at home. I keep thinking I should just bake it myself but I'm a bit intimidated by the process.

You want to call it elitism, go ahead, though that's a really weird label for someone's dietary choices. I thought it was just sensible eating. Certainly every one I know in real life tries to avoid these types of foods and make good choices as often as possible. I don't 'buy into' a lot of trends in today's diets such as going gluten or dairy-free because I don't agree with all the claims, but I wouldn't call someone elitist or stupid because they've made that choice. Same as I wouldn't someone who chooses not to consume alcohol or caffeine. It's a personal choice and though it's not mine, I can understand their rationale for it.

This thread just seems weird to me and really twilight-zonish, to read people claiming that natural ingredients have no advantage over man-made ones. I just thought it was a given that avoiding artificial ingredients was a good thing

nettiklive wrote: »

Keto_Vampire wrote: »

No FDA definition of natural...it's marketing BS

https://fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/LabelingNutrition/ucm456090.htm

I don't need definitions or labels to tell me if a product is natural or not... I can read an ingredient list.
"Marketing BS" is dyeing macaroni with fake orange coloring pretending it's cheese. Or "cream" filled cakes that are shelf-stable and don't expire for years. Or selling 'healthy' yogurt where they replace the fat with a metric ton of sugar and thickeners because they're afraid people won't buy the yogurt if it actually tastes like, you know, yogurt. There is no good reason to add artificial colors or flavors to anything, except marketing.

Things like Amy's frozen meals ARE in fact, made from only natural ingredients. Kraft dinner is not. I do try to cook most meals from scratch but I do stock convenience foods like that on hand for those rushed times, and when I buy those, I read labels and choose those without artificial additives in the ingredient list. I like TJ's for that reason, as all their frozen and convenience meals have natural ingredients only. I choose yogurt that has nothing but milk and cultures, and bread that has only ingredients one would use at home. I keep thinking I should just bake it myself but I'm a bit intimidated by the process.

You want to call it elitism, go ahead, though that's a really weird label for someone's dietary choices. I thought it was just sensible eating. Certainly every one I know in real life tries to avoid these types of foods and make good choices as often as possible. I don't 'buy into' a lot of trends in today's diets such as going gluten or dairy-free because I don't agree with all the claims, but I wouldn't call someone elitist or stupid because they've made that choice. Same as I wouldn't someone who chooses not to consume alcohol or caffeine. It's a personal choice and though it's not mine, I can understand their rationale for it.

This thread just seems weird to me and really twilight-zonish, to read people claiming that natural ingredients have no advantage over man-made ones. I just thought it was a given that avoiding artificial ingredients was a good thing

And this is why conversations like these are pointless. Everyone purporting to subscribe to this superior way of eating - whether you call it “clean” or “natural” or “Whole Foods” or “nothing processed” has their own arbitrary definition that they adhere to but when asked about some of the statements they make about how they eat, it turns out that there are all sorts of exceptions that really aren’t different than how most people eat. The self proclaimed clean eaters always have whey protein powder or go to Chipotle for lunch. The nothing processed folks always say “well you know what I meant” when asked about Greek yogurt or steel cut oats or dried pasta.

It’s very unlikely that any individual is growing, harvesting, slaughtering, and processing all of their own foods. We are busy human beings and most of us are living in a world of.many conveniences. It is “natural” for today’s world to rely on these conveniences, and anyone claiming otherwise is likely using some arbitrary and subjective food classification system. But yes, there’s an air of superiority and elitism inherent in all of these statements. “Everyone I know I’m real life tries to avoid these foods and make good choices as much as possible “. How is that not laden with judgement toward people who do eat a weight watchers meal, a fat free yogurt, a Diet Coke, a kraft dinner and hot dogs on occasion with my kids?

And to your last point, I didn’t actually see anyone saying there was no advantage to eating “natural” foods over artificial... but it’s a weird false choice to project here because it completely ignores, as most of these discussions do, the concept of context and dosage. In the context of a calorie appropriate and overall balanced diet, how is eating a serving of Oreos going to actively harm me?

So where do we stand on flouridated water and iodized salt?

scarla67 wrote: »

I know this is overly simplified but how about just noticing how you feel after you eat something? I love soft drinks and rice crispy treats but feel like crap when I eat them. Speaking for myself, I feel better when I eat pesticide free lettuce, carrots, oranges, etc and worse when I eat fried Chicfila. I think my body works better when I eat green beans instead of bacon and nitrates. I am grateful to live where I can grab a not as healthy prepackaged peanut butter and cracker pack and a diet coke when I don't plan ahead. Were all in this together. I don't feel quite as hopeless or overwhelmed with weight issues knowing we all have a common goal regardless of how we get there.

All of that can be easily explained be the "nocebo effect". You feel better because you have imbued the "good" products with the belief that they lack anything to make you feel bad.

If you were to do a blind comparison where you were given foods like regular produce vs organic you would not be able to discern which was which.

WinoGelato wrote: »

nettiklive wrote: »

Keto_Vampire wrote: »

No FDA definition of natural...it's marketing BS

https://fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/LabelingNutrition/ucm456090.htm

I don't need definitions or labels to tell me if a product is natural or not... I can read an ingredient list.
"Marketing BS" is dyeing macaroni with fake orange coloring pretending it's cheese. Or "cream" filled cakes that are shelf-stable and don't expire for years. Or selling 'healthy' yogurt where they replace the fat with a metric ton of sugar and thickeners because they're afraid people won't buy the yogurt if it actually tastes like, you know, yogurt. There is no good reason to add artificial colors or flavors to anything, except marketing.

Things like Amy's frozen meals ARE in fact, made from only natural ingredients. Kraft dinner is not. I do try to cook most meals from scratch but I do stock convenience foods like that on hand for those rushed times, and when I buy those, I read labels and choose those without artificial additives in the ingredient list. I like TJ's for that reason, as all their frozen and convenience meals have natural ingredients only. I choose yogurt that has nothing but milk and cultures, and bread that has only ingredients one would use at home. I keep thinking I should just bake it myself but I'm a bit intimidated by the process.

You want to call it elitism, go ahead, though that's a really weird label for someone's dietary choices. I thought it was just sensible eating. Certainly every one I know in real life tries to avoid these types of foods and make good choices as often as possible. I don't 'buy into' a lot of trends in today's diets such as going gluten or dairy-free because I don't agree with all the claims, but I wouldn't call someone elitist or stupid because they've made that choice. Same as I wouldn't someone who chooses not to consume alcohol or caffeine. It's a personal choice and though it's not mine, I can understand their rationale for it.

This thread just seems weird to me and really twilight-zonish, to read people claiming that natural ingredients have no advantage over man-made ones. I just thought it was a given that avoiding artificial ingredients was a good thing

And this is why conversations like these are pointless. Everyone purporting to subscribe to this superior way of eating - whether you call it “clean” or “natural” or “Whole Foods” or “nothing processed” has their own arbitrary definition that they adhere to but when asked about some of the statements they make about how they eat, it turns out that there are all sorts of exceptions that really aren’t different than how most people eat. The self proclaimed clean eaters always have whey protein powder or go to Chipotle for lunch. The nothing processed folks always say “well you know what I meant” when asked about Greek yogurt or steel cut oats or dried pasta.

It’s very unlikely that any individual is growing, harvesting, slaughtering, and processing all of their own foods. We are busy human beings and most of us are living in a world of.many conveniences. It is “natural” for today’s world to rely on these conveniences, and anyone claiming otherwise is likely using some arbitrary and subjective food classification system. But yes, there’s an air of superiority and elitism inherent in all of these statements. “Everyone I know I’m real life tries to avoid these foods and make good choices as much as possible “. How is that not laden with judgement toward people who do eat a weight watchers meal, a fat free yogurt, a Diet Coke, a kraft dinner and hot dogs on occasion with my kids?

And to your last point, I didn’t actually see anyone saying there was no advantage to eating “natural” foods over artificial... but it’s a weird false choice to project here because it completely ignores, as most of these discussions do, the concept of context and dosage. In the context of a calorie appropriate and overall balanced diet, how is eating a serving of Oreos going to actively harm me?

Well, the original post had no mention of context or dosage.

The question (that I now understand was rhetorical and not an actual discussion, silly me) was:
So all you out there, what makes these "other" food "unnatural"

I answered: what makes it unnatural is the fact that it is, unnatural. Because Yellow #42 does not exist in nature, last I knew,

As for: "How is that not laden with judgement toward people who do eat a weight watchers meal, a fat free yogurt, a Diet Coke, a kraft dinner and hot dogs on occasion with my kids? "

Um, no that wasn't 'laden with a judgment', that was a simple statement of fact. Truly, every single adult I know tries to comprise their family's diets of mainly real, natural foods (let's not pick at words here, we all know what that means). "As much as possible' means just that - there can be pizza nights and parties and halloween candy and fast food on the road and whatever else. However everyone understands these for what they are - not particularly healthy choices that are inferior to 'real'/whole/natural/ whatever you wanna call it foods, again you know what I mean. And understand that they are not equal in healthfulness and should not make up the bulk of someone's diet. All this particularly when it comes to young kids, imo.
But again, the OP made no mention of any of this, he implied that there is no real difference at all between 'natural' and 'non-natural' foods.

But if you want to talk judgement. I do judge, not the people who consume these things but the industry that created them. Convenience is one thing. Promotion of artificially-laden junk molded together from modified corn starch, cheap grease, sugar, salt, and neon coloring, especially targeted to kids, is another. If you ask me, and call me elitist all you want - NO ONE needs to eat that crap, no one, and it should not even be sold as food. The only reason it was is because corporations found a gold mine. I'm incredibly happy that this crap seems to be getting pushed out more and more as people finally demand better food and so many more good quality products are becoming easily available. And when you have good quality food, you don't need to mask it with salt, sugar, and fake flavoring. You know what tastes like cheddar cheese? Cheddar cheese. Boil some pasta, plop in butter and sprinkle some on, voila. Takes the same amount of effort and time.

Okay I'm off my soapbox now. I'm not ripping anyone's cheetos out of their hands. I just don't get the love. So many other delicious, 'real' foods exist to indulge in as a treat. Bake some cookies with real butter, so much better than Oreos. Flame away now