Recovering Carbaholic [Keto]

cwolfman13 wrote: »

FlyingMolly wrote: »

Running_and_Coffee wrote: »

I love my vegetables and still eat them in large quantities, but don't miss the cookies, oatmeal, pizza or anything else I used to crave pre-keto. It's not right for everyone, though and it's not the only way. I did feel like keto was a good option for destroying carb cravings, if that along with weight loss is your end goal.

Same. You can take quite a lot of the carbohydrates out of the typical American diet and still have plenty of room left over for fruits and veggies. It’s true that I don’t sit around munching on a whole apple as a snack on keto, but let’s face it: that wasn’t something I’d actually do before keto, either.

Now, instead of having a big salad once in a while and feeling so virtuous that I decide I deserve a cookie to go with it, I eat an avocado, heaping plates of leafy greens, and moderate portions of berries pretty much every day, along with whatever else is lying around that I can squeeze in.

And I have actual self-control around food, which just...was not the case six months ago. It’s not the case when I take weekend breaks, either. People can scoff all they want at the idea of carbs as an addiction, but for some of us they really do seem to function that way.

I always like when people talk about carb addiction and their examples are thinks like cookies and whatnot that have equally, if not more calories coming from fat.

I've never heard someone complaining that they're addicted to beans and lentils and oats and root vegetables, etc which are all nutritionally good sources of carbohydrates. It's always the cookie as if all carbs are just junk foods.

Of course they’re different, but in my own eating experience they’re linked. I’ve never had success limiting myself to unlimited carbs such as lentils, beans, and potatoes—and yes, I’ve tried. When I eat an apple for a snack I WILL eventually eat candy later that same night, not because carbs are all created equal but because my brain’s wiring kind of sucks sometimes. I’m a lifelong binge eater, and I have literally never found a strategy that works for me until I tried keto.

I’m not saying carrots are bad or that everyone should do keto, but cutting MY net carbs down to 10% of my calories has accomplished what decades of “knowing better” has not.

And what I found is that when I cut out sugar and grains and starches, I actually had way more room than I expected for vegetables, and can still enjoy more fruit than I ever got around to eating consistently before (because I’d forget or run out or be in a hurry and granola bars were RIGHT THERE). So it kind of annoys me when I see “I’d do keto if I didn’t, you know, enjoy produce!” because the notion that keto must mean nothing but steak and eggs all day is uncharitable and untrue.

FlyingMolly wrote: »

Interesting question. I don’t know exactly where the line is, but there’s no margin for me in finding out. I’m getting a satisfying variety of foods with a wide array of nutrients in them now and am content with that; why would I risk a relapse just for the sake of finding out where it happens? I know that when I have my “off” weekends I can maintain control for a few hours; sometimes a full day. By the second day all the familiar binge-y noise is in my head again. By the third I’m eager to dive back into keto so I can shut it up.

I do know that 10% isn’t a hard ceiling. I’m sure my measurements aren’t perfect, and anyway I’ve gone over that for a few hours here and there for social reasons, or because my son wanted me to try something he’s eating, or whatever. But 10% is a good general target that’s been working for me, and, as you say, we’re all individuals. I am an individual for whom keto has been a real gift, and I’m explaining why, so that other people like me might be able to self-identify and consider it as an option. Others might self-identify as NOT like me and steer away. Which I think is more useful than just trying to lure people into it with promises of magical fat-melting, or scare them away by insisting that they’d basically be risking scurvy.

Haven't you have contradicted yourself here? If you are satisfied why do you take "off" weekends? Also, if you are familiar with being "off" you aren't really risking a relapse by experimenting with higher percentages, right? I mean you could always just jump back "on". Personally I would want to know where the lines are drawn. Maybe those social situations and your son having you try things is well within your comfort zone.

lemurcat12 wrote: »

FlyingMolly wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

FlyingMolly wrote: »

Running_and_Coffee wrote: »

I love my vegetables and still eat them in large quantities, but don't miss the cookies, oatmeal, pizza or anything else I used to crave pre-keto. It's not right for everyone, though and it's not the only way. I did feel like keto was a good option for destroying carb cravings, if that along with weight loss is your end goal.

Same. You can take quite a lot of the carbohydrates out of the typical American diet and still have plenty of room left over for fruits and veggies. It’s true that I don’t sit around munching on a whole apple as a snack on keto, but let’s face it: that wasn’t something I’d actually do before keto, either.

Now, instead of having a big salad once in a while and feeling so virtuous that I decide I deserve a cookie to go with it, I eat an avocado, heaping plates of leafy greens, and moderate portions of berries pretty much every day, along with whatever else is lying around that I can squeeze in.

And I have actual self-control around food, which just...was not the case six months ago. It’s not the case when I take weekend breaks, either. People can scoff all they want at the idea of carbs as an addiction, but for some of us they really do seem to function that way.

I always like when people talk about carb addiction and their examples are thinks like cookies and whatnot that have equally, if not more calories coming from fat.

I've never heard someone complaining that they're addicted to beans and lentils and oats and root vegetables, etc which are all nutritionally good sources of carbohydrates. It's always the cookie as if all carbs are just junk foods.

Of course they’re different, but in my own eating experience they’re linked. I’ve never had success limiting myself to unlimited carbs such as lentils, beans, and potatoes—and yes, I’ve tried. When I eat an apple for a snack I WILL eventually eat candy later that same night, not because carbs are all created equal but because my brain’s wiring kind of sucks sometimes. I’m a lifelong binge eater, and I have literally never found a strategy that works for me until I tried keto.

I’m not saying carrots are bad or that everyone should do keto, but cutting MY net carbs down to 10% of my calories has accomplished what decades of “knowing better” has not.

And what I found is that when I cut out sugar and grains and starches, I actually had way more room than I expected for vegetables, and can still enjoy more fruit than I ever got around to eating consistently before (because I’d forget or run out or be in a hurry and granola bars were RIGHT THERE). So it kind of annoys me when I see “I’d do keto if I didn’t, you know, enjoy produce!” because the notion that keto must mean nothing but steak and eggs all day is uncharitable and untrue.

This kind of thing just makes me think you didn't eat many fruits or veg before, and that therefore you aren't really comparing keto to a planned, nutrient dense non keto diet.

When I did keto I had to cut down the amount of veg I ate (and I could not eat any fruit or beans/lentils) even aiming for around 35 net (around 65 total) carbs. It is true that I like to eat a variety of non starchy veg (cauliflower and broccoli and brussels have more carbs than some others, I am not actually super into carrots so they weren't my problem), and it is also true that I love veg and consider them really important and routinely eat about 10-12 servings if not trying to hit super low carb numbers.

My bigger issue was the fruit, which I could not fit in at all (other than some avocado), and that I was even stressing about nuts and plain greek yogurt.) I also think beans and lentils are really affirmatively good foods to eat and had to cut them out. And this idea that one wouldn't eat fruit pre keto is something I don't relate to at all, I love fruit.

NOT saying it's not a good diet if you enjoy it, but it's simply true that this is one of the drawbacks for some people, and if you are starting from a different place re produce consumption, maybe that's the issue.

I’m comparing keto to the diet I actually ate. What matters is what we do in the real world, right?

Look: I love veggies. I would have told you a year ago that I ate tons of them and they’re delicious and yay vegetables. What that meant in practice, though, was that I tended to eat a lot of them at once, then have other whole meals where I really didn’t so much. Pancakes with a sliced strawberry for decoration, or a sandwich with a leaf of lettuce stuck in the middle, a plate of pasta that’s 90% pasta and 10% sauce...it just doesn’t really add up. Now that I have NO meals like those, I have more room to play around.

I can eat as much arugula as I can stuff into my face and it’s still keto. Unless you know people who routinely eat MORE arugula than they can stuff into their faces, I mean, it should be obvious already that you don’t “have to” cut veggies to go keto. Right?

As for fruit, I have no idea why people claim fruit is impossible, because check my diary for the last few days. My favorite meal is an avocado and half a box of raspberries; I eat that combo all the time. When I’m not taking up space with quinoa, I can do things like that.

I eat less produce in a single sitting, yet still more overall. Not because I avoided it before, but because I’m no longer using calories on grains or sugar, and nature fills a vacuum with coleslaw mix.

FlyingMolly wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

FlyingMolly wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

FlyingMolly wrote: »

Running_and_Coffee wrote: »

I love my vegetables and still eat them in large quantities, but don't miss the cookies, oatmeal, pizza or anything else I used to crave pre-keto. It's not right for everyone, though and it's not the only way. I did feel like keto was a good option for destroying carb cravings, if that along with weight loss is your end goal.

Same. You can take quite a lot of the carbohydrates out of the typical American diet and still have plenty of room left over for fruits and veggies. It’s true that I don’t sit around munching on a whole apple as a snack on keto, but let’s face it: that wasn’t something I’d actually do before keto, either.

Now, instead of having a big salad once in a while and feeling so virtuous that I decide I deserve a cookie to go with it, I eat an avocado, heaping plates of leafy greens, and moderate portions of berries pretty much every day, along with whatever else is lying around that I can squeeze in.

And I have actual self-control around food, which just...was not the case six months ago. It’s not the case when I take weekend breaks, either. People can scoff all they want at the idea of carbs as an addiction, but for some of us they really do seem to function that way.

I always like when people talk about carb addiction and their examples are thinks like cookies and whatnot that have equally, if not more calories coming from fat.

I've never heard someone complaining that they're addicted to beans and lentils and oats and root vegetables, etc which are all nutritionally good sources of carbohydrates. It's always the cookie as if all carbs are just junk foods.

Of course they’re different, but in my own eating experience they’re linked. I’ve never had success limiting myself to unlimited carbs such as lentils, beans, and potatoes—and yes, I’ve tried. When I eat an apple for a snack I WILL eventually eat candy later that same night, not because carbs are all created equal but because my brain’s wiring kind of sucks sometimes. I’m a lifelong binge eater, and I have literally never found a strategy that works for me until I tried keto.

I’m not saying carrots are bad or that everyone should do keto, but cutting MY net carbs down to 10% of my calories has accomplished what decades of “knowing better” has not.

And what I found is that when I cut out sugar and grains and starches, I actually had way more room than I expected for vegetables, and can still enjoy more fruit than I ever got around to eating consistently before (because I’d forget or run out or be in a hurry and granola bars were RIGHT THERE). So it kind of annoys me when I see “I’d do keto if I didn’t, you know, enjoy produce!” because the notion that keto must mean nothing but steak and eggs all day is uncharitable and untrue.

This kind of thing just makes me think you didn't eat many fruits or veg before, and that therefore you aren't really comparing keto to a planned, nutrient dense non keto diet.

When I did keto I had to cut down the amount of veg I ate (and I could not eat any fruit or beans/lentils) even aiming for around 35 net (around 65 total) carbs. It is true that I like to eat a variety of non starchy veg (cauliflower and broccoli and brussels have more carbs than some others, I am not actually super into carrots so they weren't my problem), and it is also true that I love veg and consider them really important and routinely eat about 10-12 servings if not trying to hit super low carb numbers.

My bigger issue was the fruit, which I could not fit in at all (other than some avocado), and that I was even stressing about nuts and plain greek yogurt.) I also think beans and lentils are really affirmatively good foods to eat and had to cut them out. And this idea that one wouldn't eat fruit pre keto is something I don't relate to at all, I love fruit.

NOT saying it's not a good diet if you enjoy it, but it's simply true that this is one of the drawbacks for some people, and if you are starting from a different place re produce consumption, maybe that's the issue.

I’m comparing keto to the diet I actually ate. What matters is what we do in the real world, right?

Look: I love veggies. I would have told you a year ago that I ate tons of them and they’re delicious and yay vegetables. What that meant in practice, though, was that I tended to eat a lot of them at once, then have other whole meals where I really didn’t so much. Pancakes with a sliced strawberry for decoration, or a sandwich with a leaf of lettuce stuck in the middle, a plate of pasta that’s 90% pasta and 10% sauce...it just doesn’t really add up. Now that I have NO meals like those, I have more room to play around.

I can eat as much arugula as I can stuff into my face and it’s still keto. Unless you know people who routinely eat MORE arugula than they can stuff into their faces, I mean, it should be obvious already that you don’t “have to” cut veggies to go keto. Right?

As for fruit, I have no idea why people claim fruit is impossible, because check my diary for the last few days. My favorite meal is an avocado and half a box of raspberries; I eat that combo all the time. When I’m not taking up space with quinoa, I can do things like that.

I eat less produce in a single sitting, yet still more overall. Not because I avoided it before, but because I’m no longer using calories on grains or sugar, and nature fills a vacuum with coleslaw mix.

See, I see you spending calories on things like fat bombs and dark chocolate that I spend on potatoes or more vegetables.

I don't think 2 cups of arugula is particularly much, nor do I think is 3 ounces of raspberries... as you said, content is relative. Perhaps compared to how you used to it, it is. Compared to how I eat, I'd have to cut my produce intake to match yours.

This isn't a dis on your diet at all, it's more going back to the ongoing thread of conversation regarding the relative content of vegetables in people's diets and their perceptions here.