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"Natural foods" vs "others"
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janejellyroll wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »I randomly stumbled on this video today and remembered this thread, I'm sure it'll get woo'd on here but this sums up exactly what I've been trying to say about fast food and junk food and how it's different from natural foods
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1025790800904622&id=276157035868006
Can you please point to where in this thread, or any other, anyone said that there is NO difference between "junk food" (whatever you are defining that as) and natural foods (again, however you define them)? You keep proclaiming that people are saying something that no one is saying, and you've been misrepresenting the context of this thread in others as well.
People were claiming here there's no difference between a homemade burger or potato and McDonald's or frozen Walmart burgers or whatever. There is because production matters.
So mass produced fried potatoes are made from carefully chosen potatoes (which knowledgeable home cooks use, by the way, because it's the perfect potato for fries due to favorable starch content) and then fried, which uses the same amount as deep fried potatoes at home (if not less, because not all home cooks know the perfect temperature for making crispy potatoes and may end up with potatoes that absorb more oil). Is it bad that they make potatoes that taste good to many people? I don't know of a single home cook that wants to deliberately make things that taste bad.
I like Pollan, in general, but I don't like it when he goes on such tangents.
To be fair, Mass produced fries are almost always fried twice with a freeze cycle, because that's how you get crisp tasty fries that aren't too soggy and hold salt well.
This technique is also available to home cooks (although most of us aren't going to go to the trouble).
True, but blast freezers aren't generally available and Nitrogen can get spendy if you use it every time you want fries.
So yeah, probably not going to go through the trouble.
Oh, I didn't think through the blast freezing angle.
I think a nitrogen bath would work, but dangerous and messy and expensive. I totally agree it's within the realm of at least theoretically possible.0 -
stanmann571 wrote: »True, but blast freezers aren't generally available and Nitrogen can get spendy if you use it every time you want fries.
So yeah, probably not going to go through the trouble.
You don't need to freeze them that is done for storage. You blanch them in hot water to remove excess starch, cook them at a low temperature, drain, and then cook them at a high temperature to brown them.
I thought the chill cycle between fryings reduced moisture and improved crispness.
Learn something new every day.
So. times and temperatures and preferred oil?
Simmer 190 degree water?
Low cook at 250?
High cook at 375?0 -
stanmann571 wrote: »ooh- the island one is a good question. I'm almost curious enough to try to figure that out. You'd have to look more specifically at the macro and micro breakdowns of the peas, beans versus the Big Mac. You would probably be missing some needed amino acids in the peas/beans combo and lower than ideal in fat content; specific vitamins they have/don't have I personally don't know. The Big Macs should have enough fat and protein (with no missing amino acids) to meet minimum requirements. The enriched flour-based bread will have at least the vitamins that historically have been an issue for malnutrition. The sauce is probably tomato-based (either ketchup, or ketchup-based), so at least some vitamin C (albeit maybe not much). Any major health issues from not getting much fiber in the diet would probably be further off in the future versus malnutrition issues. ...
But Regardless, Team Broccoli carrots dies first- Either from constipation(low fat) or malnutrition, or from blood clots(K)
yep.
My vote is for the Big Mac, which includes multiple food groups, 'unnatural' vitamin enrichment, and a full compliment of amino acids.2 -
stanmann571 wrote: »ooh- the island one is a good question. I'm almost curious enough to try to figure that out. You'd have to look more specifically at the macro and micro breakdowns of the peas, beans versus the Big Mac. You would probably be missing some needed amino acids in the peas/beans combo and lower than ideal in fat content; specific vitamins they have/don't have I personally don't know. The Big Macs should have enough fat and protein (with no missing amino acids) to meet minimum requirements. The enriched flour-based bread will have at least the vitamins that historically have been an issue for malnutrition. The sauce is probably tomato-based (either ketchup, or ketchup-based), so at least some vitamin C (albeit maybe not much). Any major health issues from not getting much fiber in the diet would probably be further off in the future versus malnutrition issues. ...
But Regardless, Team Broccoli carrots dies first- Either from constipation(low fat) or malnutrition, or from blood clots(K)
yep.
My vote is for the Big Mac, which includes multiple food groups, 'unnatural' vitamin enrichment, and a full compliment of amino acids.
I think after Team Broccarrot dies orange that Team Peans goes into a fit of rage and kills Team Mac and steals their magic Mac Machine/tree.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »True, but blast freezers aren't generally available and Nitrogen can get spendy if you use it every time you want fries.
So yeah, probably not going to go through the trouble.
You don't need to freeze them that is done for storage. You blanch them in hot water to remove excess starch, cook them at a low temperature, drain, and then cook them at a high temperature to brown them.
I thought the chill cycle between fryings reduced moisture and improved crispness.
Learn something new every day.
So. times and temperatures and preferred oil?
Simmer 190 degree water?
Low cook at 250?
High cook at 375?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Cooked_Chips
ETA: that's for temperatures, but freezing and such is not usually necessary, just blanch, dry, fry, cool, fry again.3 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »True, but blast freezers aren't generally available and Nitrogen can get spendy if you use it every time you want fries.
So yeah, probably not going to go through the trouble.
You don't need to freeze them that is done for storage. You blanch them in hot water to remove excess starch, cook them at a low temperature, drain, and then cook them at a high temperature to brown them.
I thought the chill cycle between fryings reduced moisture and improved crispness.
Learn something new every day.
So. times and temperatures and preferred oil?
Simmer 190 degree water?
Low cook at 250?
High cook at 375?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Cooked_Chips
ETA: that's for temperatures, but freezing and such is not usually necessary, just blanch, dry, fry, cool, fry again.
Thanks.
So chill, but not necessary to freeze.
Just read the article. Very interesting.0 -
I think the biggest difference between FF restaurants and home cooked happens during assembly and then subsequent storage/cooling. Who hasn't gotten a sandwich that had sauce/mayo/ketchup/mustard running down the side of the bun? Or one that has been sitting under a warming lamp for 10 minutes? Fries that were warm but just barely? How about when you want your grill chicken plain to find out that you have to make another trip through the drive-thru (assuming you caught it in time) to get it right? Then there is the occasional fun of no napkins or no straw. All of this at a fairly high calorie mark.
I have eaten my share of the eleventy trillion sold but those days are mostly in the past. One of the promises I made myself was to stop eating things unless they were truly worth the calories.
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I think the biggest difference between FF restaurants and home cooked happens during assembly and then subsequent storage/cooling. Who hasn't gotten a sandwich that had sauce/mayo/ketchup/mustard running down the side of the bun? Or one that has been sitting under a warming lamp for 10 minutes? Fries that were warm but just barely? How about when you want your grill chicken plain to find out that you have to make another trip through the drive-thru (assuming you caught it in time) to get it right? Then there is the occasional fun of no napkins or no straw. All of this at a fairly high calorie mark.
I have eaten my share of the eleventy trillion sold but those days are mostly in the past. One of the promises I made myself was to stop eating things unless they were truly worth the calories.
I think the main differences (diet/health-wise) between fast food and a homemade burger are:
Most people will get fries (high cal) and no veg with the FF burger
Many people will choose a lower fat content or lower cal buns at home and NOT bother making fries but instead have roasted potatoes or baked beans or just veg. So you are likely to have fewer total calories and some vegetables at home.
Are the differences between the meats used beyond that meaningful? I doubt it. Are the differences in the potatoes used meaningful? Not at all.
Ironically, you can get a burger at a "humanely raised from a local farm" kind of restaurant that has many more calories (with the fries you would also get there) than the McD's meal. Yet that is no more "unnatural" than your home item.4 -
nettiklive wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »I randomly stumbled on this video today and remembered this thread, I'm sure it'll get woo'd on here but this sums up exactly what I've been trying to say about fast food and junk food and how it's different from natural foods
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1025790800904622&id=276157035868006
Can you please point to where in this thread, or any other, anyone said that there is NO difference between "junk food" (whatever you are defining that as) and natural foods (again, however you define them)? You keep proclaiming that people are saying something that no one is saying, and you've been misrepresenting the context of this thread in others as well.
People were claiming here there's no difference between a homemade burger or potato and McDonald's or frozen Walmart burgers or whatever. There is because production matters.
Only in your mind.
https://bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-fast-food-meal.html/5 -
That's it!!! I'm forming my own team: Team Pizza6
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I think the biggest difference between FF restaurants and home cooked happens during assembly and then subsequent storage/cooling. Who hasn't gotten a sandwich that had sauce/mayo/ketchup/mustard running down the side of the bun? Or one that has been sitting under a warming lamp for 10 minutes? Fries that were warm but just barely? How about when you want your grill chicken plain to find out that you have to make another trip through the drive-thru (assuming you caught it in time) to get it right? Then there is the occasional fun of no napkins or no straw. All of this at a fairly high calorie mark.
I have eaten my share of the eleventy trillion sold but those days are mostly in the past. One of the promises I made myself was to stop eating things unless they were truly worth the calories.
This reminds me of one of my most disappointing drive thru experiences. I had a meeting at 9am, went to work an evening shift and was asked to stay for the night (I had forgotten about being up at 7am when I agreed to stay the night). I managed to get a short nap in there, but essentially was going to be up for 25 hours by the time I got home. All I wanted was some McDs pancakes. I asked for an extra syrup (yup, an extra). When I got home, there was no syrup, but I did get a straw for my invisible drink. Sadness gave way to confusion as to WTF could they have possibly been thinking.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »I randomly stumbled on this video today and remembered this thread, I'm sure it'll get woo'd on here but this sums up exactly what I've been trying to say about fast food and junk food and how it's different from natural foods
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1025790800904622&id=276157035868006
Can you please point to where in this thread, or any other, anyone said that there is NO difference between "junk food" (whatever you are defining that as) and natural foods (again, however you define them)? You keep proclaiming that people are saying something that no one is saying, and you've been misrepresenting the context of this thread in others as well.
People were claiming here there's no difference between a homemade burger or potato and McDonald's or frozen Walmart burgers or whatever. There is because production matters.
What's the difference?
Price?
Quality?
The ingredients are in fact the same.
Beef
Potato
You may choose to use fewer oils or different salt, but that's a detail, not a difference.
Er, except even in the supposedly 'myth-busting' article above, conducted by an expert hired by McDonalds - hahaha, no biases there at all, clearly - McDonalds fries have around 15 other ingredients except for potato, oil and salt.
"But because McDonald's wanted to make sure skeptics and fans alike got as much information as possible, it made an additional video with Imahara just to explain all 19 ingredients that go into making its french fries.
The list not only includes the potatoes themselves, plus various oils, dextrose and sodium acid pyrophosphate, but also natural beef flavor, hydrolyzed wheat, hydrolyzed milk, citric acid, salt and hydrogenated soybean oil with the antioxidant TBHQ, which "preserves the freshness of the oil."
The longest word on the ingredient list is dimethylpolysiloxane, an anti-foaming agent. "It helps keep the oil from splattering," Imahara says in the video. "It's approved for use in a number of many other very familiar foods."
Yum, who doesn't want some extra anti-foaming agent in their food?
"Approved for use in many other familiar foods" - that sounds trustworthy!
Blech.
When you make your own food, you control what goes in it and you control the ingredients to whatever degree you want - you can get the crappy cheapest beef which is probably only marginally better than what they use in mcdonalds, or you can get the nice grass-fed beef from a local farm, or you can have your own Kobe sake-massaged cow that you sing lullabies to before you slaughter it, if you so desire. But you know what went in it in either case. At the very least, you know it's only the meat and seasonings you used. When you're eating fast food, you only know it's been produced to save the corporation as much money while maximizing profit as possible. That means it's likely got not only the cheapest meat possible, fed and shot with god knows what, but also a bunch of artificial fillers and additives that don't need to be there. McDonalds could give less of a crap what you're actually consuming and how it's affecting your health as long as you keep buying.16 -
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Carrots and broccoli (this requires 12.76 lbs of the two combined to reach an equal calorie amount)0
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nettiklive wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »I randomly stumbled on this video today and remembered this thread, I'm sure it'll get woo'd on here but this sums up exactly what I've been trying to say about fast food and junk food and how it's different from natural foods
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1025790800904622&id=276157035868006
Can you please point to where in this thread, or any other, anyone said that there is NO difference between "junk food" (whatever you are defining that as) and natural foods (again, however you define them)? You keep proclaiming that people are saying something that no one is saying, and you've been misrepresenting the context of this thread in others as well.
People were claiming here there's no difference between a homemade burger or potato and McDonald's or frozen Walmart burgers or whatever. There is because production matters.
What's the difference?
Price?
Quality?
The ingredients are in fact the same.
Beef
Potato
You may choose to use fewer oils or different salt, but that's a detail, not a difference.
Er, except even in the supposedly 'myth-busting' article above, conducted by an expert hired by McDonalds - hahaha, no biases there at all, clearly - McDonalds fries have around 15 other ingredients except for potato, oil and salt.
"But because McDonald's wanted to make sure skeptics and fans alike got as much information as possible, it made an additional video with Imahara just to explain all 19 ingredients that go into making its french fries.
The list not only includes the potatoes themselves, plus various oils, dextrose and sodium acid pyrophosphate, but also natural beef flavor, hydrolyzed wheat, hydrolyzed milk, citric acid, salt and hydrogenated soybean oil with the antioxidant TBHQ, which "preserves the freshness of the oil."
The longest word on the ingredient list is dimethylpolysiloxane, an anti-foaming agent. "It helps keep the oil from splattering," Imahara says in the video. "It's approved for use in a number of many other very familiar foods."
Yum, who doesn't want some extra anti-foaming agent in their food?
"Approved for use in many other familiar foods" - that sounds trustworthy!
Blech.
When you make your own food, you control what goes in it and you control the ingredients to whatever degree you want - you can get the crappy cheapest beef which is probably only marginally better than what they use in mcdonalds, or you can get the nice grass-fed beef from a local farm, or you can have your own Kobe sake-massaged cow that you sing lullabies to before you slaughter it, if you so desire. But you know what went in it in either case. At the very least, you know it's only the meat and seasonings you used. When you're eating fast food, you only know it's been produced to save the corporation as much money while maximizing profit as possible. That means it's likely got not only the cheapest meat possible, fed and shot with god knows what, but also a bunch of artificial fillers and additives that don't need to be there. McDonalds could give less of a crap what you're actually consuming and how it's affecting your health as long as you keep buying.
I don't need to feel like McDonald's cares for me. What a weird expectation to have for a corporation.
Do you not buy anything from someone who wants to make a profit from the work they do? Maybe that's possible in some areas, but if I limited my food sourcing to only involve not-for-profit entities, I don't think I'd manage to meet my nutritional needs.9 -
nettiklive wrote: »Er, except even in the supposedly 'myth-busting' article above, conducted by an expert hired by McDonalds - hahaha, no biases there at all, clearly - McDonalds fries have around 15 other ingredients except for potato, oil and salt.
"But because McDonald's wanted to make sure skeptics and fans alike got as much information as possible, it made an additional video with Imahara just to explain all 19 ingredients that go into making its french fries.
The list not only includes the potatoes themselves, plus various oils, dextrose and sodium acid pyrophosphate, but also natural beef flavor, hydrolyzed wheat, hydrolyzed milk, citric acid, salt and hydrogenated soybean oil with the antioxidant TBHQ, which "preserves the freshness of the oil."
I think this is a silly point, since no one thinks french fries are a health food, and the reason french fries should be consumed in limited amounts (especially when one is dieting) is that they are high cal (mostly due to all the oil, as potatoes aren't hard to fit in) and not very high nutrient for the calories.
You seem to be arguing that fries made at the local restaurant into the local, artisanal ingredients would be 100% fine for any diet, but that McD's fries would be bad for one's health. I think both are about the same (and should be limited), but that calories are what really matter (that and type of fat used).
So I'll ask you, in the quantities used, what exactly do these 15 ingredients do that is supposedly so bad for my health? Just having a long word in their names doesn't make them bad.
(I don't like McD's anyway, so the focus on McD's or FF seems really odd to me, but you seem to think it's important so I'm sure you can answer this question.)8 -
janejellyroll wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »I randomly stumbled on this video today and remembered this thread, I'm sure it'll get woo'd on here but this sums up exactly what I've been trying to say about fast food and junk food and how it's different from natural foods
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1025790800904622&id=276157035868006
Can you please point to where in this thread, or any other, anyone said that there is NO difference between "junk food" (whatever you are defining that as) and natural foods (again, however you define them)? You keep proclaiming that people are saying something that no one is saying, and you've been misrepresenting the context of this thread in others as well.
People were claiming here there's no difference between a homemade burger or potato and McDonald's or frozen Walmart burgers or whatever. There is because production matters.
What's the difference?
Price?
Quality?
The ingredients are in fact the same.
Beef
Potato
You may choose to use fewer oils or different salt, but that's a detail, not a difference.
Er, except even in the supposedly 'myth-busting' article above, conducted by an expert hired by McDonalds - hahaha, no biases there at all, clearly - McDonalds fries have around 15 other ingredients except for potato, oil and salt.
"But because McDonald's wanted to make sure skeptics and fans alike got as much information as possible, it made an additional video with Imahara just to explain all 19 ingredients that go into making its french fries.
The list not only includes the potatoes themselves, plus various oils, dextrose and sodium acid pyrophosphate, but also natural beef flavor, hydrolyzed wheat, hydrolyzed milk, citric acid, salt and hydrogenated soybean oil with the antioxidant TBHQ, which "preserves the freshness of the oil."
The longest word on the ingredient list is dimethylpolysiloxane, an anti-foaming agent. "It helps keep the oil from splattering," Imahara says in the video. "It's approved for use in a number of many other very familiar foods."
Yum, who doesn't want some extra anti-foaming agent in their food?
"Approved for use in many other familiar foods" - that sounds trustworthy!
Blech.
When you make your own food, you control what goes in it and you control the ingredients to whatever degree you want - you can get the crappy cheapest beef which is probably only marginally better than what they use in mcdonalds, or you can get the nice grass-fed beef from a local farm, or you can have your own Kobe sake-massaged cow that you sing lullabies to before you slaughter it, if you so desire. But you know what went in it in either case. At the very least, you know it's only the meat and seasonings you used. When you're eating fast food, you only know it's been produced to save the corporation as much money while maximizing profit as possible. That means it's likely got not only the cheapest meat possible, fed and shot with god knows what, but also a bunch of artificial fillers and additives that don't need to be there. McDonalds could give less of a crap what you're actually consuming and how it's affecting your health as long as you keep buying.
I don't need to feel like McDonald's cares for me. What a weird expectation to have for a corporation.
Yep.4 -
So what? More ingredients = evil?nettiklive wrote: »McDonalds fries have around 15 other ingredients except for potato, oil and salt.
So what? Is there peer-reviewed research specifically stating that any of those things are deleterious to your health? Or do they just sound scary to you because you can't go outside and pick them off a tree?nettiklive wrote: »The list not only includes the potatoes themselves, plus various oils, dextrose and sodium acid pyrophosphate, but also natural beef flavor, hydrolyzed wheat, hydrolyzed milk, citric acid, salt and hydrogenated soybean oil with the antioxidant TBHQ, which "preserves the freshness of the oil."
So what? Is there peer-reviewed research specifically stating that dimethylpolysiloxane is deleterious to your health? Or do long ingredient names just sound scary to you because 'omg teh chemikillz!'?nettiklive wrote: »The longest word on the ingredient list is dimethylpolysiloxane, an anti-foaming agent. "It helps keep the oil from splattering," Imahara says in the video. "It's approved for use in a number of many other very familiar foods."
So what? As long as you don't subsist entirely upon fast food, what's the harm of occasionally including it in your diet in the proper context and dosage? I wouldn't eat nothing but broccoli and kale for every meal, so why would I eat nothing but McDonalds burgers and fries for every meal? There is such a thing as a balanced, varied diet.nettiklive wrote: »When you're eating fast food, you only know it's been produced to save the corporation as much money while maximizing profit as possible. That means it's likely got not only the cheapest meat possible, fed and shot with god knows what, but also a bunch of artificial fillers and additives that don't need to be there. McDonalds could give less of a crap what you're actually consuming and how it's affecting your health as long as you keep buying.
Oh, and BTW - there are regulations in place in the food industry so you don't have to worry about whether or not your meat has been "fed and shot with god knows what". Food manufacturers/producers aren't nearly as evil in real life as they are in your fantasies.
This is all just more orthorexia and fearmongering. Nothing more.16 -
Peas and beans (1100g of peas, and 1000g of red kidney beans prepared from dry)1
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nutmegoreo wrote: »Peas and beans (1100g of peas, and 1000g of red kidney beans prepared from dry)
Thank you for the 3 of those. That was really interesting, and not exactly what I would've guessed.
Too bad he didn't just say "legumes" . . . coulda snuck some peanuts in there.
1
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