Women 50+ Building Muscle/Cutting

mom23mangos wrote: »

quiksylver296 wrote: »

Following. I'd like to learn as much as possible before peri- and/or menopause hit. I'm not that far away.

I suspect Lyle's new book "The Women's Book" would be a valuable resource. I haven't bought it yet.

https://store.bodyrecomposition.com/product/the-womens-book-vol1/

I downloaded this a while back but haven't read it yet. While I'm still in my early 40's, I've been peri for a while now. I have a feeling it's going to stretch on for a REALLY long time for me.

Heard about this book through Sumi Singh. She's extremely helpful Roxie. Am uncertain if she's still on MFP. You may contact her through her website as she was training with Lyle McDonald during the phase this book was being written, if memory serves.

http//www.shailafitness.com/about/

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RoxieDawn wrote: »

quiksylver296 wrote: »

mom23mangos wrote: »

quiksylver296 wrote: »

Following. I'd like to learn as much as possible before peri- and/or menopause hit. I'm not that far away.

I suspect Lyle's new book "The Women's Book" would be a valuable resource. I haven't bought it yet.

https://store.bodyrecomposition.com/product/the-womens-book-vol1/

I downloaded this a while back but haven't read it yet. While I'm still in my early 40's, I've been peri for a while now. I have a feeling it's going to stretch on for a REALLY long time for me.

RoxieDawn wrote: »

mom23mangos wrote: »

quiksylver296 wrote: »

Following. I'd like to learn as much as possible before peri- and/or menopause hit. I'm not that far away.

I suspect Lyle's new book "The Women's Book" would be a valuable resource. I haven't bought it yet.

https://store.bodyrecomposition.com/product/the-womens-book-vol1/

I downloaded this a while back but haven't read it yet. While I'm still in my early 40's, I've been peri for a while now. I have a feeling it's going to stretch on for a REALLY long time for me.

Its been 7 years for me, its worse towards the end for me... kinda ready to get off the roller coaster now.

Hang in there, at least there is an end to the madness.

Y'all aren't making me feel better!

But but... We are all going to be different, who knows with your phsyique, diet and lifting you might not come out better than all of us... so there's that. Think positive. Does this help?

Probably not, but I tried. :laugh:

One can hope.

RoxieDawn wrote: »

777Gemma888 wrote: »

Hey there sweetheart!

People think that menopause stops you but really it's just another form of stress. All stress makes us hungrier (increased cortisol and ghrelin).

All I do is keep in mind my TDEE and eat slightly under to lose body fat, workout but not really count exercise calories except to eat an extra serving (not too much!) depending on my hunger intensity before I go to bed at night.

Also, I found my hot flashes and night sweats to be unbearable, feeling like I got run over by a truck every morning and not getting sleep and hunger through the roof, so I went to the doctor and got custom bio-identical HRT. Also I feel that my vitamins, fish oil, and superior greens all with anti-inflammatory and helping with hormone regulation all contribute to my success with keeping the body fat down.

It's a complicated issue for sure, but in many ways simple, it requires investment in nutrition.

Roberta

Good morning Roxie. The above quoted was Roberta Saum's response to me regarding your thread query.

777Gemma888 wrote: »

mom23mangos wrote: »

quiksylver296 wrote: »

Following. I'd like to learn as much as possible before peri- and/or menopause hit. I'm not that far away.

I suspect Lyle's new book "The Women's Book" would be a valuable resource. I haven't bought it yet.

https://store.bodyrecomposition.com/product/the-womens-book-vol1/

I downloaded this a while back but haven't read it yet. While I'm still in my early 40's, I've been peri for a while now. I have a feeling it's going to stretch on for a REALLY long time for me.

Heard about this book through Sumi Singh. She's extremely helpful Roxie. Am uncertain if she's still on MFP. You may contact her through her website as she was training with Lyle McDonald during the phase this book was being written, if memory serves.

http//www.shailafitness.com/about/

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Good morning. Thanks for this, great stuff.

The hot flashes ... hit by a truck... this is me to a tee.

I'm not looking to do HRT, I added fish oil about 2 months ago that's good to know.

I wonder what is ideal body fat levels are? Lyle McDonald hints on body fat being harder to control in later stages of peri.


eta: I can't get the quotes to line up.. oh well

I would assume around 14% to 21% depending on your end goals@fitness readiness Roxie.

@quotes lining up - deleting the last quote Gemma should do it.

@late stages of peri. I was engaged in an en masse discussion with bikini/fitness/physique competitors 40-50+ women yesterday, who'd all highlighted that the "little" help they needed to jolt the losses when you're at the end of your cut, apart from nutrition, was cardio. Take that with a grain of salt, as they were discussing alternatives to PED's. How much would need to be determined by you, factoring in energy depletion et al.

** Am not there yet @pre Peri, but hearing their voices will create the foundation of my approach when it'll hit, which might be a while as my Mum's bloodwork, like my grandmother's has just put her in peri@68 in December, documented, and 69 biologically ( registration of birth was slow). She wants them to speed it up using synthetics (crazy!).

RoxieDawn wrote: »

777Gemma888 wrote: »

RoxieDawn wrote: »

777Gemma888 wrote: »

Hey there sweetheart!

People think that menopause stops you but really it's just another form of stress. All stress makes us hungrier (increased cortisol and ghrelin).

All I do is keep in mind my TDEE and eat slightly under to lose body fat, workout but not really count exercise calories except to eat an extra serving (not too much!) depending on my hunger intensity before I go to bed at night.

Also, I found my hot flashes and night sweats to be unbearable, feeling like I got run over by a truck every morning and not getting sleep and hunger through the roof, so I went to the doctor and got custom bio-identical HRT. Also I feel that my vitamins, fish oil, and superior greens all with anti-inflammatory and helping with hormone regulation all contribute to my success with keeping the body fat down.

It's a complicated issue for sure, but in many ways simple, it requires investment in nutrition.

Roberta

Good morning Roxie. The above quoted was Roberta Saum's response to me regarding your thread query.

777Gemma888 wrote: »

mom23mangos wrote: »

quiksylver296 wrote: »

Following. I'd like to learn as much as possible before peri- and/or menopause hit. I'm not that far away.

I suspect Lyle's new book "The Women's Book" would be a valuable resource. I haven't bought it yet.

https://store.bodyrecomposition.com/product/the-womens-book-vol1/

I downloaded this a while back but haven't read it yet. While I'm still in my early 40's, I've been peri for a while now. I have a feeling it's going to stretch on for a REALLY long time for me.

Heard about this book through Sumi Singh. She's extremely helpful Roxie. Am uncertain if she's still on MFP. You may contact her through her website as she was training with Lyle McDonald during the phase this book was being written, if memory serves.

http//www.shailafitness.com/about/

Auto correct: surname

Good morning. Thanks for this, great stuff.

The hot flashes ... hit by a truck... this is me to a tee.

I'm not looking to do HRT, I added fish oil about 2 months ago that's good to know.

I wonder what is ideal body fat levels are? Lyle McDonald hints on body fat being harder to control in later stages of peri.


eta: I can't get the quotes to line up.. oh well

I would assume around 14% to 21% depending on your end goals@fitness readiness Roxie.

@quotes lining up - deleting the last quote Gemma should do it.

@late stages of peri. I was engaged in an en masse discussion with bikini/fitness/physique competitors 40-50+ women yesterday, who'd all highlighted that the "little" help they needed to jolt the losses when you're at the end of your cut, apart from nutrition, was cardio. Take that with a grain of salt, as they were discussing alternatives to PED's. How much would need to be determined by you, factoring in energy depletion et al.

** Am not there yet @pre Peri, but hearing their voices will create the foundation of my approach when it'll hit, which might be a while as my Mum's bloodwork, like my grandmother's has just put her in peri@67. She wants them to speed it up using synthetics (crazy!).

I am currently running in addition to my lifting about 23 miles per week. I chose to do very little of it during my bulk. Running is also a part of my training as I do both lifting and running.. I might be the exception to those that lift only.

And doing PED's oh my goodness, I think I will have to pass on that LOL as taking a Tylenol for a headache is bad enough. Interesting to hear the conversation that took place though.

Peri at 67? Wow this is amazing, thinking about the last 12 months of this process and doing it in mid to late 60's sounds crazy to me for sure. I'll be curious what she decides to do.

Alright, THIS is not making me feel better! There is little hope for me if you are having issues and you are running 23mi per week while strength training.

I was really excited about Lyle's book when it was released. Then I saw the price! It is a bit pricey and I don't have a great need for it yet.

Someone brought up body fat %. A lot of charts for healthy body fat % have an age factor. This article talks about it a little (at the bottom):
https://www.builtlean.com/2010/08/03/ideal-body-fat-percentage-chart/
"You may have noticed as your age increases, your acceptable body fat within these ranges increases as well. Why you ask? In short, these charts are based on statistical assumptions. Older individuals tend to have a lower body density for the same skinfold measurements, which is assumed to indicate a higher body fat percentage. Older, athletic individuals, however, might not fit this assumption because their body density may be underestimated.

Digging a little deeper, there are 3 types of fat: subcutaneous (under the skin), visceral (around the organs), and intramuscular (in between muscle, like a marbled steak). The amount of subcutaneous body fat you have may stay the same, but the visceral and intramuscular fat may increase as you age."

I know for me what is possible and what is sustainable are 2 different things! I think 18% body fat on women looks freaking amazing! I just don't have it in me to get that low. I think around 20% is about as low as I can go. I love eating too much!

RoxieDawn wrote: »

I have been trying to research various aspects of women building muscle at ages 50+ going through menopause. Menopause is such a touchy subject all though all us ladies will go through it, but I don't know of anyone my age doing bulk/cut cycles or recomp.

I would love to find some resources, studies, etc. that discuss female hormones, balance (not sure how to work on balance if they aren't working like they should be ), maybe macros or diet changes or cutting strategies that might be beneficial. For the past three weeks I have horrid day/night time sweats and also trying to find out if this causes water balance problems.

I will be 50 in a few months, if things hold where they are I will be 'post' at the end of the year. I bulked this winter and now cutting, it has reached a point where I have stalled, I have lost about 3 pounds in 8 weeks and I dare cut cals again. Maybe some of my fat loss is masked by water. I thought I could ride out my cals but all of this has me losing strength, my performance some days are better than others, I still get the job done, but I think I could do so much more if I was 100%.

Take a diet break only after 8 weeks of 250 deficit? Does that sound dumb? I am mentally and physically attached to my calories so I am cutting on 1800, 115-120 gr protein, fat around 65-70g and my carbs the rest, sometimes I get a little less fat and more carbs (200-210gr).

I wrote this hoping to not embarrass my self, I am treading into unknown waters, I am very patient and willing to adjust or try new things.

No, it doesn't sound dumb at all. People don't realize that the deficit is added stress and sometimes during the stress of menopause we need to "stair step" the deficit and eat at TDEE more.

The menopause journey is so unique and different for each women, and the endocrine system with all the hormones and communications between the brain and organs so incredibly complex, that there is no one size fits all solution.

The biggest thing I ever did wrong was search the internet and shoot in the dark on various homeopathic solutions. I wasted many years living with the agony of various symptoms and waking up every morning feeling like I was run over by a truck and hunger hormones raging through the roof. Go to a doctor and have your hormones checked and be open to solutions you might have been close minded about before.

TDEE should always be the calorie reference point for health, not the deficit which is corrective action and causes stress on the body. The deficit should be dosed out according to each individual and all the stress. Most of the frustration I see are people trying to push it to hard and putting the focus on something that is not sustainable or realistic. TDEE is always a WIN.

Best of luck to you!!!

Roberta

I am post menopausal. I do not have much wisdom to share. I hurt my back in October and hardly worked out and gained 15 lbs in about 6 mos. I have never gained like that. I have now given up alcohol and lost 6 lbs in one month. I think some of that is water weight as unfortunately I was a regular drinker. I need to lose the other 10 still . Since I have been back at it I feel like I have regained a lot of strength. Not sure I will ever hit prs again but we shall see. I use the nuvaring to manage my symptoms. Will have to change as I am now 50.

RoxieDawn wrote: »

californiagirl2012 wrote: »

RoxieDawn wrote: »

I have been trying to research various aspects of women building muscle at ages 50+ going through menopause. Menopause is such a touchy subject all though all us ladies will go through it, but I don't know of anyone my age doing bulk/cut cycles or recomp.

I would love to find some resources, studies, etc. that discuss female hormones, balance (not sure how to work on balance if they aren't working like they should be ), maybe macros or diet changes or cutting strategies that might be beneficial. For the past three weeks I have horrid day/night time sweats and also trying to find out if this causes water balance problems.

I will be 50 in a few months, if things hold where they are I will be 'post' at the end of the year. I bulked this winter and now cutting, it has reached a point where I have stalled, I have lost about 3 pounds in 8 weeks and I dare cut cals again. Maybe some of my fat loss is masked by water. I thought I could ride out my cals but all of this has me losing strength, my performance some days are better than others, I still get the job done, but I think I could do so much more if I was 100%.

Take a diet break only after 8 weeks of 250 deficit? Does that sound dumb? I am mentally and physically attached to my calories so I am cutting on 1800, 115-120 gr protein, fat around 65-70g and my carbs the rest, sometimes I get a little less fat and more carbs (200-210gr).

I wrote this hoping to not embarrass my self, I am treading into unknown waters, I am very patient and willing to adjust or try new things.

No, it doesn't sound dumb at all. People don't realize that the deficit is added stress and sometimes during the stress of menopause we need to "stair step" the deficit and eat at TDEE more.

The menopause journey is so unique and different for each women, and the endocrine system with all the hormones and communications between the brain and organs so incredibly complex, that there is no one size fits all solution.

The biggest thing I ever did wrong was search the internet and shoot in the dark on various homeopathic solutions. I wasted many years living with the agony of various symptoms and waking up every morning feeling like I was run over by a truck and hunger hormones raging through the roof. Go to a doctor and have your hormones checked and be open to solutions you might have been close minded about before.

TDEE should always be the calorie reference point for health, not the deficit which is corrective action and causes stress on the body. The deficit should be dosed out according to each individual and all the stress. Most of the frustration I see are people trying to push it to hard and putting the focus on something that is not sustainable or realistic. TDEE is always a WIN.

Best of luck to you!!!

Roberta

Thank your for your post and kind words.

Last night I slept horrible, woken up twice to pee (which seemed like gallons) and hot flashes with a final one that got me out of bed at 3:00 a.m. So not fun, I chose a complete rest day and decreasing the deficit starting today.

My husband wants me to take the diet break for 3 weeks and reassess. He should probably get a 'best husband' award for his patience during all of this. If the diet break ends up easing or regulating symptoms, there is no other choice but to continue to maintain. I am more than okay with that as choosing like you said, sustainable. Health, wellness and feeling as best I/we can, having balance, healthy amounts of exercise and perhaps diet strategies to aid in the process as I realize its ending one phase and starting another.

If only the hot flashes and sweating were not a part of this, I still don't get what these are, I guess I will figure that out one day. Thanks again.

I assume you're taking into account that the hot flashes/sweats can be compromising sleep quality, which can have an effect on stress and water weight in itself? That could also affect workout intensity/effectiveness.

I'm not a great model for strength training (lackadaisical), but I am athletically active & post-menopausal. I'm also a tiny bit of a skeptic about menopause as The Great Evil. Different women do have different degrees of difficulty with it, and I'm not very knowledgeable about those**, but so much of the rhetoric about its Awful Consequences are so similar to rhetoric about hypothyroidism's Awful Consequences (I'm also hypo) . . . so, skeptical. Human brains are so good at turning correlation into causation, so it's good to keep considering the non-menopause-related factors that could account for observed results (and the ancillary menopausal effects, like the effect of sleep quality, not simply "da menopause").

** I went into menopause abruptly at age 44, over the course of a month or two, as a side effect of chemotherapy. The abruptness (not to mention the chemotherapy itself) masks or shortens certain menopausal effects, but the anti-estrogen drugs some of us (me) take will exaggerate other menopausal symptoms, and extend them over the 5-10+ years we're on the drugs. Bottom line, my menopause was not most women's menopause. In some ways it was easier; in some ways it was worse.

A consequence of this experience is that I'd urge anyone considering HRT to carefully look into the research on HRT and breast cancer. Menopausal symptoms are a baby-feline; even though I don't know experientially what all those symptoms are, I'm pretty sure cancer and cancer treatment are worse. Bad hobby, for sure.

There are things breast cancer survivors who can't remotely consider HRT will do to moderate menopausal symptoms, but they are just that, remedies for symptoms. Worth considering, though, if you want symptomatic relief and don't want HRT.

</curmudgeon>

P.S. I was thinking @middlehaitch was doing recomp post-menopausally, maybe? Since you asked about recomp-ers in your OP, I'm wondering if she might have any insights (though I think she's post-menopausal, probably, not in the thick of it)?