Man who is fit and fat
chris_in_cal
Posts: 2,531 Member
I'm 75 lbs overweight. If I lost 25 lbs, I'd been feeling free and loose in all of my clothes. 50 lbs would have me looking very different, and all of my wardrobe would be different. That would feel great. Lifetime, smart, most healthy weight though? Drop 75lbs.
I've run a bunch and not that I'm old I feel much tougher. I jogged a half marathon with a buddy a couple of weeks ago. I have always exercised and I've always like doing physical things....over the last 5 years I've become 100% convinced on all the research that shows - exercise makes us feel good and has longer term positive health impacts, but losing weight is mostly controlling the crap I shove in my mouth.
Controlling my food intake is almost completely a psychological challenge. MFP is a great tool. Of course, I can nail a daily 2000 calorie day all logged into MFP...but what about next week or next month when I'm off the plan with a big bag of something in my hand.
I'm a tough guy physically, my health is pretty good for my advanced age (55) but I'm fat.
Step one) I just packed a sack lunch for tomorrow.
Step two) think about exercise.
Step three) hone in on the deep root causes of my bouncing back up 75 lbs 6 month or 9 months after hitting goal (why do I do that?)
Any other exercise-positive fat guys out there thinking about what it takes to control the stuff you shove in your mouth?
I've run a bunch and not that I'm old I feel much tougher. I jogged a half marathon with a buddy a couple of weeks ago. I have always exercised and I've always like doing physical things....over the last 5 years I've become 100% convinced on all the research that shows - exercise makes us feel good and has longer term positive health impacts, but losing weight is mostly controlling the crap I shove in my mouth.
Controlling my food intake is almost completely a psychological challenge. MFP is a great tool. Of course, I can nail a daily 2000 calorie day all logged into MFP...but what about next week or next month when I'm off the plan with a big bag of something in my hand.
I'm a tough guy physically, my health is pretty good for my advanced age (55) but I'm fat.
Step one) I just packed a sack lunch for tomorrow.
Step two) think about exercise.
Step three) hone in on the deep root causes of my bouncing back up 75 lbs 6 month or 9 months after hitting goal (why do I do that?)
Any other exercise-positive fat guys out there thinking about what it takes to control the stuff you shove in your mouth?
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Replies
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I've been an MFPer since 2012 ( I had already lost 636 lbs before joining) . It takes discipline and commitment to "not gain it all back." I can only imagine what I would do if I ballooned back to 995 lbs. Let that number of mine set in.
Print out a sign or find an App which will remind you, "Put your fork down, fat boy!"
FYI:. I fluctuate between 150 to 190 lbs today when I am not obsessing over calories. Am on my cutting cycle to hit my ideal prepping for my friend's wedding amongst other events. I only have a few pounds to go now.
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You weighed 995 and dropped down to 150. That must be a hulluva story.3
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chris_in_cal wrote: »You weighed 995 and dropped down to 150. That must be a hulluva story.
A long journey with a diet break of 3 years and a bit, just eating like a normal human being and working out to fill in free time which I have a lot of (sometimes).
A South African filmmaker did film the most drastic drops of weight - the 636lbs phase, only that we refused to sign the release for him to air it. He lives down the street from family, so he's easy to track down, if only to get the reels to view. Back then even thinking about the volume was horrific.
I(we) was/were so big that a queen size bed felt like a single bed. Today, we can both cuddle in a queen sized bed with 3 tweens + a toddler whilst watching a show.6 -
I'm 58 and busy re-losing what I lost a few years ago (-66lbs). There is no magic. For me the answer seems to be identifying and avoiding trigger foods and high calorie stuff that I can live without. Rice is a good example--starches are high calorie, I'm finding that skipping the rice and eating meat & vegetables only is practical and livable. The cliché is make it a lifestyle change. I hate that expression but it has merit. In terms of fitness, your strength that allows you to carry around ballast and still run etc, will not last forever. Your joints will suffer first from extra weight and be the first things to respond to less ballast. Lose the ballast now, it only gets harder later.5
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Chris- I was wondering if I could get your two cents on something. Its pretty inspirational to me that you lost that kind of weight so I was wondering if I could get your opinion.
Have you ever hear of HIIT workouts?
I have been struggling with weight loss and I have taken some time to do some serious research on the best exercises to lose weight. It seems like HIIT workouts are what seems to be popular today.
What I want to know is if it really is possible to lose serious weight doing these workouts for only a few hours a week. This one user review I cam across of some product claimed that the user lost weight only working out 90 minutes a week- simplefitnessproject.com/reviews/old-school-new-body/ . So many
other fitness bloggers claim that these workouts work miracles for them as well. However, I find it hard to believe that these workouts are really all that effective. Im pretty skeptical. Thoughts?
Thanks0 -
I'm not a guy, but I was a pretty-fit obese woman (rower, on water and machine, including competing - not burning up the water, but competing in the pack for my age and even getting the occasional place medal; RHR in the low 50s; good endurance; at age 59, keeping up with much younger folks in boats and in my spin classes; etc. - all while obese).
At 59-60, I lost 50+ pounds (around 30% of my body weight), and have stayed at a healthy weight for a couple of years since (BMI 22.3 this morning). Now age 62.
It isn't true for everyone (because some people are very inactive), but for people like you and me, I agree that it's all about the eating. I didn't - didn't want to - change my activity level much in order to lose weight, as it would've thrown my life out of balance, taking time away from other activities I value. (It's summer, so I'm rowing 4 days most weeks, going to spin class 2 days, and strength training 3 days, throwing in the occasional long walk or bike ride or whatever. I also need time for other hobbies, other social life, etc.
).
What it took for me to control my eating was finding a sustainable balance, where I was eating foods I found tasty and filling, that gave me excellent nutrition, and fit in my calorie goal. With the MFP food diary, weight loss became a big, fun, grown-up science fair project. It took some time at first to find a satisfying balance and figure out efficient ways to use the MFP tools, but it's become routine and is very effective for me. It's worth the few minutes a day it takes: I feel so. much. better. It's almost magical. Plus my blood lipids and blood pressure, formerly high, are pretty excellent.
The big surprise was that I'm actually enjoying food more now that I'm being selective about it. It's fun to plan it, shop for it, prepare it, eat eat. I used to just shove whatever, whenever into my mouth with little thought. Now I consider what will be most delicious, nutritious and satisfying . . . which, oddly enough, makes it more fun. Life is too short for things that aren't tasty, and the "eat whatever" approach frankly involved a lot of thoughtless consumption of mediocre foods. This is just better, in so many ways.
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Billbegood wrote: »Chris- I was wondering if I could get your two cents on something. Its pretty inspirational to me that you lost that kind of weight so I was wondering if I could get your opinion.
Have you ever hear of HIIT workouts?
I have been struggling with weight loss and I have taken some time to do some serious research on the best exercises to lose weight. It seems like HIIT workouts are what seems to be popular today.
What I want to know is if it really is possible to lose serious weight doing these workouts for only a few hours a week. This one user review I cam across of some product claimed that the user lost weight only working out 90 minutes a week- simplefitnessproject.com/reviews/old-school-new-body/ . So many
other fitness bloggers claim that these workouts work miracles for them as well. However, I find it hard to believe that these workouts are really all that effective. Im pretty skeptical. Thoughts?
Thanks
I'm not Chris, but: They're over-hyped and not miraculous. They're useful workouts in some contexts, but not usually the best choice for someone relatively new to exercise. Even elite athletes don't do them every day, but at specific times for specific purposes. True HIIT tends to be more fatiguing than steady-state exercise, and there's higher risk of injury (strains & such).
A complicating factor is that what many blogs and such describe as HIIT really isn't HIIT, because the proposed activity doesn't really create the intensity needed to achieve good results, especially when the activity is performed by a newer exerciser. Often, what is called HIIT is just interval training, also a good modality, and more suitable than real HIIT for new exercisers.
If your objective is calorie burn, the best answer is usually to figure out how much time you want to devote to exercise, then spend that time on a short warm-up, a short cool-down, and in between the highest-intensity cardiovascular activity you can sustain for that time period, and still have enough energy to go happily through the rest of your day (after maybe a brief few-minutes "whew!" feeling right after the workout). The "after burn" effect sounds like a big deal in percentage terms, but if you do the math, the calorie numbers are pretty small. (Steady state has afterburn, a.k.a. EPOC (excess post-exercise oxygen consumption), too, just a lower percent of the exercise calories).
If you're fairly new to exercise, I think it's also a good plan to build some base fitness and endurance via steady-state exercise for a few months, before really ramping up intensity. (Later, when more conditioning is in place, intensity will be less fatiguing and safer.)
While losing weight, it's also a good plan to devote some time to strength training, in order to preserve as much muscle as possible. It doesn't have a high calorie burn, but keeping as much muscle as possible is a good objective. Rebuilding it later is slow and difficult.
JMO.3 -
I know this does fit for everyone, but I viewed budgeting calories as I do managing my finances. I can either go blindly through life and guess at my debits and credits, or I can manage these well and just as I ensure I have a plan to realize my personal goals through finances...I must manage my caloric intake and exercise to realize my personal goals.
This cinched it for me. While that new beautiful sports car would be fun...does my budget justify it...and more importantly is that really what I'm looking for? Apply the same to calories...I do make the exception for certain necessities - great beers must always be budgeted for.3 -
Billbegood wrote: »Chris- I was wondering if I could get your two cents on something. Its pretty inspirational to me that you lost that kind of weight so I was wondering if I could get your opinion.
Have you ever hear of HIIT workouts?
I have been struggling with weight loss and I have taken some time to do some serious research on the best exercises to lose weight. It seems like HIIT workouts are what seems to be popular today.
What I want to know is if it really is possible to lose serious weight doing these workouts for only a few hours a week. This one user review I cam across of some product claimed that the user lost weight only working out 90 minutes a week- simplefitnessproject.com/reviews/old-school-new-body/ . So many
other fitness bloggers claim that these workouts work miracles for them as well. However, I find it hard to believe that these workouts are really all that effective. Im pretty skeptical. Thoughts?
Thanks
I'm not Chris, but: They're over-hyped and not miraculous. They're useful workouts in some contexts, but not usually the best choice for someone relatively new to exercise. Even elite athletes don't do them every day, but at specific times for specific purposes. True HIIT tends to be more fatiguing than steady-state exercise, and there's higher risk of injury (strains & such).
A complicating factor is that what many blogs and such describe as HIIT really isn't HIIT, because the proposed activity doesn't really create the intensity needed to achieve good results, especially when the activity is performed by a newer exerciser. Often, what is called HIIT is just interval training, also a good modality, and more suitable than real HIIT for new exercisers.
If your objective is calorie burn, the best answer is usually to figure out how much time you want to devote to exercise, then spend that time on a short warm-up, a short cool-down, and in between the highest-intensity cardiovascular activity you can sustain for that time period, and still have enough energy to go happily through the rest of your day (after maybe a brief few-minutes "whew!" feeling right after the workout). The "after burn" effect sounds like a big deal in percentage terms, but if you do the math, the calorie numbers are pretty small. (Steady state has afterburn, a.k.a. EPOC (excess post-exercise oxygen consumption), too, just a lower percent of the exercise calories).
If you're fairly new to exercise, I think it's also a good plan to build some base fitness and endurance via steady-state exercise for a few months, before really ramping up intensity. (Later, when more conditioning is in place, intensity will be less fatiguing and safer.)
While losing weight, it's also a good plan to devote some time to strength training, in order to preserve as much muscle as possible. It doesn't have a high calorie burn, but keeping as much muscle as possible is a good objective. Rebuilding it later is slow and difficult.
JMO.
Precisely. HIIT was developed and refined over the years within the elite endurance athlete community as a temporary process to increase VO2max. Note that this requires one to be extremely disciplined and forces the body to extreme stressors to further athletic gain. So what is marketed as HIIT is just interval training.
If you have not developed personal discipline then HIIT is not recommended. Most HIIT programs are conducted through professionally run programs and medically supervised as this requires a large amount of support to implement effectively.
Slow and steady is a much wiser course of action.1 -
Pre-log your whole day or even entire week. Only eat what you've said you are going to eat and when.1
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chris_in_cal wrote: »Any other exercise-positive fat guys out there thinking about what it takes to control the stuff you shove in your mouth?
Thinking about it: yes. All the time.
The only way it works for me is to basically become obsessive about it, otherwise I lapse and overeat. It has to be a very concentrated point of emphasis for me throughout the day, every day. I've learned I need to be very focused about it.
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Billbegood wrote: »Have you ever hear of HIIT workouts?
...is if it really is possible to lose serious weight doing these workouts for only a few hours a week. This one user review I cam across of some product claimed that the user lost weight only working out 90 minutes a week- simplefitnessproject.com/reviews/old-school-new-body/ . So many other fitness bloggers claim that these workouts work miracles for them as well. However, I find it hard to believe that these workouts are really all that effective. Im pretty skeptical. Thoughts?
The most promoted rules are:
- Weight loss by caloric deficit
- Workout and exercise for health
In most cases people cannot work out hard enough and long enough to greatly effect caloric deficit as much as moderating intake and exchanging foods - like instead of drinking a 44 ounce Pepsi, drinking water with Crystal Light. That alone is a 560 calorie cut, which if you are a daily Pepsi drinker would cut about a pound of calories a week right there. In comparison, if you are an average male, 5'10 and around 230 pounds around 40 years old, you need to run at a fast pace for about 40 minutes, bike for 30 minutes, or walk at a 4.0mph pace for over an hour to reduce the same amount of calories. So while you do burn calories, and there are extended benefits of working out for increasing daily caloric burn from increases muscle mass, etc., focusing on diet first is key.
In EVERY fitness program ever created there is always the disclaimer that people they show lost weight in conjunction with a "healthy diet". Really, if someone does their caloric deficit right they would be losing weight WITHOUT ANY EXERCISE really. Yeah, the claims for only working out 90 minute and losing weight are probably factual, but certainly the workout is not the main catalyst for the weight loss. Again, diet and moderating caloric intake is.
That said, health and fitness is a combination of eating right and exercise. We eat proper calories to support our needs (loss, maintain, gain). We do strength and conditioning to increase strength, flexibility, bone density, etc. We do cardio to task and improve cardiovascular health. And we make a plan for all three based on what our ultimate goals are.
For HIT, and HIIT, I love both personally. I have limited time for working out and find I can get enough exercise in a short time as I was with longer workouts, but a lot of what I do is sports training.
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You might be strong and fat, but you can't be both fit and fat.3
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MostlyWater wrote: »You might be strong and fat, but you can't be both fit and fat.
You can be surprisingly fit while fat - well, I suppose I can't speak for you, only for me. My AM RHR while fat was at an athletic level (high 40s to low 50s). My CV endurance was pretty similar (pretty good) when fat to what is now that I'm thin. My measurable performance (rowing machine racing time) was similar when fat to what it is now, and was credible (not elite) for a person my age - around the 75-percentile level on the Concept 2 world rankings. This is when I was at BMI 30+, which is obese. And this was not "obese because mega-muscle" either. It was fat. I'm at BMI 22.3 as of this morning, which is still about 10 pounds heavier than is really best for my body shape & composition. Around BMI 20 is best.
This is not the same thing as saying it's equally healthy to be fat, it's not saying that it's optimal to be fat, it's not saying that there are no athletic performance benefits to being at a healthy weight: It's saying that the markers of fitness (in a CV sense as well as a strength sense) don't track as closely with body weight as you might think.1 -
MostlyWater wrote: »You might be strong and fat, but you can't be both fit and fat.
You can be surprisingly fit while fat - well, I suppose I can't speak for you, only for me. My AM RHR while fat was at an athletic level (high 40s to low 50s). My CV endurance was pretty similar (pretty good) when fat to what is now that I'm thin. My measurable performance (rowing machine racing time) was similar when fat to what it is now, and was credible (not elite) for a person my age - around the 75-percentile level on the Concept 2 world rankings. This is when I was at BMI 30+, which is obese. And this was not "obese because mega-muscle" either. It was fat. I'm at BMI 22.3 as of this morning, which is still about 10 pounds heavier than is really best for my body shape & composition. Around BMI 20 is best.
This is not the same thing as saying it's equally healthy to be fat, it's not saying that it's optimal to be fat, it's not saying that there are no athletic performance benefits to being at a healthy weight: It's saying that the markers of fitness (in a CV sense as well as a strength sense) don't track as closely with body weight as you might think.
That's interesting. thank you .1 -
I think what's interesting about fit and fat is that once you DO lose the weight you have a lot of muscle underneath. Over my many years of this whole thing I have learned the hard way that you can't run your way away from eating too much. Chris, your body (joints esp) will thank you a LOT if you lose even 30 of those pounds. Why not give yourself a chance and try eating at a deficit for 5 weeks. Small steps. Best of luck.1
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Really great responses, well except the HIIT excursion which had nothing to do with the subject.
I'm mortal, but I've been remarkably injury free. I'm just kind of thick boned, and jointed. For me, I used to like to be competitive in sport, and really push things. Running, basketball, swimming, skiing. I don't quite feel the same way anymore, but now with my mates if someone wants to do a triathlon or a big run, I know that as long as I don't blister up, and don't psych myself out, I can complete it and it'll be a fun time.
So @MostlyWater I get your point, but by "strong" I believe with age I've become mentally much more tough. I am not fit, but I could probably lace'em up and run a long way right now if there were water to drink and enough time.
And @colors_fade that is exactly how I feel. Something happens to me and I am able to maintain a very sharp focus and discipline, I log, and lose, and it feels great. Something equally mysterious happens and I stop my focus and discipline and I bounce back. I've done it twice now.
I'm just now catching myself from going all the way back up, I've logged a couple times this week, I've dropped a couple LBS, I'm getting that good feeling of momentum and optimism, I am looking for opportunities to be more active. But as I regain my laser focus and discipline, what is going to be different this time when I get to a more 20-ish BMI?1 -
MostlyWater wrote: »You might be strong and fat, but you can't be both fit and fat.
Sorry but that's not true.
I was fat from age 31 to age 53. Exercised hard and frequently, had a good fitness level, played squash to a good standard and my favoured approach was to run my opponent into the ground as I really didn't have a lot of natural talent.
Now I'm the correct weight I'm fitter but that's taken me from fit to very fit and not unfit to fit.3 -
mom23mangos wrote: »Pre-log your whole day or even entire week. Only eat what you've said you are going to eat and when.
@mom23mangos I like you advise. You have quite a following for being selective. Last go round an MFP talked me into pre-logging, I'd always been a "tell me what you have done, not what you are going to do" person. But there is good that comes from it. Actively stating intention and being aware of what my shopping and food needs are, is a good feedback-loop.
I've only tried pre-logging a meal, maybe this week I'll try pre-logging a whole day.0 -
Chris. I was the chubby bloke in the gym lifting heavy and exercising hard. I mostly maintained my weight but maintained too heavy/too fat.
I stayed overweight because I didn't take responsibility for how much I ate.
I had a pretty dumb excuse that it wasn't my fault I got fat (true to a degree - it was a result of a major injury caused by an idiot car driver). But I clung to that for two decades until I had a bit of a moment when I realised it was down to me and me alone to take charge of my food intake - the car driver didn't force me to keep eating too much.
There was also a bit of a fear factor that it was time to get healthy in my 50's to earn as many good years as possible (not just strong and fit for a chubster!).
I really enjoy my exercise (cycling and weights mostly) but although it gives me a usefully higher calorie allowance to maintain I could still comfortably over-eat but it's a conscious decision that I don't. I set an upper weight limit that triggers action to stop a slide getting out of control. It's been well worth the effort, in many ways my 50's have been my best decade.3 -
@sijomial You have quite an impressive profile page. I like to cycle too. Doing 100 in 6.5 hours ain't shabby ol' timer. Great work and inspiration.0
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So I find some similarities in what you have shared and for the last couple years I have justified that I'm physically strong but I carry extra weight (fat) over that foundation... but then about 18months ago I had a fundamental mental change driven by 3 main factors.
1) A comment from my physician during one of my annual physicals. I don't have the exact words, but was effectively referencing that while he recognizes I have been physically big/strong the ~15yrs he's been my primary care physician, and in general my frame carries it well (6'4", broad shouldered) the truth is that I have also continued to add weight (fat) year to year as my metabolism slowed. Then he talked about how all that extra weight being carried by the body puts more stress on everything... from the synovial fluid in your joints, to all the extra tissue that your cardiovascular system must supply, etc. So his question to me was "why do you need to carry all of this muscle?" ... if you lost weight and some of that just happened to be some muscle what would that "take away" from you at this stage of your life (middle aged, married, desk job, etc.) vs everything that reducing the overall load/tax on your body's system.
I walked away from the appointment grumbling about the stupid doctor, but the more I thought about it the more valid the logic seemed, and then
2) I did some reading about the difference in visceral fat (the fat around your organs when you are carrying extra weight in your waistline even if your shoulders/arms are muscular) and the strain visceral fat around the organs put on your body, and then
3) Going back and looking at my MFP data day to day and making a connection between how my lack of fiber (because most of my calories consumed were derived from heavy protein/fat source) was probably contributing to digestive woes that were increasing in frequency of "flare ups"
So I made some fundamental shifts in my approach to things... slowly cranked up my fiber intake, which helps me feel "full" and keeps my digestive system moving in a regular manner. I also started doing more cardio, keeping strength training part of all of my workouts, but shifted more exercise to focus to our most important muscle... the heart.
For about 18 months now I have continued to exercise both cardio & strength and while I haven't had much of any "gains" in my lifts for a year an a half now (would be lying if I said that doesn't still bother me a little) I have lost over 50lbs on the scale (which then has to be fat, because loss of muscle wouldn't maintain how much weight I can move in my strength lifts).
he crazy part about it, is that most comments I've received as of late start out with "you've lost weight", but then transition to some reference about how I must be doing a lot more strength training because I look "stronger" now. I know as a measurable fact that I really haven't gained any muscle/strength, I've just been slowly peeling off the extra layers of fat surrounding it all.
Anyways... long post (and I don't offer/post much to the MFP community) but something I thought might be worth sharing, because I also self identified as "fit but fat" for years and then flipped my mindset around to be... what if I kept my "fit" but lost the "fat"? Not there yet, but I wish I would have reached this conclusion years ago.3 -
Fellow former fit fatty here. 4.03 marathon and 11.38 Ironman all while the wrong side of 110kg
Now the right side of 95kg(still a bit to go to hit goal) and just as fit but so much quicker! Every day the weight comes down the speed goes up. Love it!
Initially I was 140+kg but would still go out and ride for 40+ miles and play squash twice a week. I look back and wonder how I ever did it!2 -
MostlyWater wrote: »You might be strong and fat, but you can't be both fit and fat.
I'm fit and fat. I can run longer than the average inactive normal weight person, and I'm obese. I'm quite fit compared to some people, or at least to what I used to be. I used to need to stop to catch my breath if I walked for more than 2 minutes.0 -
chris_in_cal wrote: »And @colors_fade that is exactly how I feel. Something happens to me and I am able to maintain a very sharp focus and discipline, I log, and lose, and it feels great. Something equally mysterious happens and I stop my focus and discipline and I bounce back. I've done it twice now.
It's not a great mystery for me. I've done the bounce up more than a few times. I know what happens every time. It might be the same for you.
Mine always starts with an event that revolves around food: going out with the wife, a birthday party, night out with the kids, etc. Something where I am not in direct control of the food being prepared, so I cannot weigh the food and I have no idea how many calories are in the food. I'll overeat/drink too much. Sometimes these events get stacked several days in a row. I may eat well during the day (breakfast, lunch, pre-workout), but then the evening meal out with friends or the wife or the family and I overdo it. I often have no real idea how many calories I'm consuming at these things.
I've figured out a couple strategies for dealing with these meals, but I'm still in the process of honing the discipline to enact these strategies when it counts. Sometimes it's just fun to drink and eat a bit, but it does slow down my progress.
And that's why I mentioned focus, almost to the obsessive level. When I'm out, if I can get myself to think about my goals and obsess about them a bit, I can usually have the discipline to carry out the strategies (like ordering an appetizer instead of an entree, or choosing a salad instead of a pizza, that sort of thing).
It's a process.
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colors_fade wrote: »Sometimes it's just fun to drink and eat a bit, but it does slow down my progress.
@colors_fade I agree, though my progress usually gets obliterated and I don't "slow my progress," I regress.
@seanaanderson has a whole bunch of tricks to maintain, he writes very eloquently about his techniques. I hope to try them out...but that's incumbent on me getting back (for a third time) to my goal weight.
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