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That Keto is so hot right now
Replies
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Let me tell you about my personal experience with Keto.
About two months ago we started a biggest loser challenge at work. Pretty much everyone but me decided that they were going to do keto. *cue eyeroll*
I said to them. "Listen. I've done this before." (I lost 90lbs and got to my goal weight about 6 years ago. I gained it back because stress and depression got in the way.)
"As bad as I want to win I'll let you know the 'secret' to losing weight. You don't have to do keto. Just count your calories."
I directed them to MFP. I told them low carb is not sustainable, especially when we work in a restaurant that has AMAZING Yeast rolls. None of them listened.
Our final weigh in is next week. We've been doing weigh ins in between.
I've been in the lead since week 1.
Only one person is even close to me and that's because on top of keto she's also basically starving herself and going to the gym every day.
But whatever. Next week i'll be 200$ richer and it's not like I didn't warn them.
If you are losing weight faster, are you starving yourself and going to the gym everyday too?17 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I think part of keto'e popularity is that people are excited to have permission to eat fat again after it was demonized for decades. The pendulum has swung too far if whole food carbs, like vegetables and fruits, are declared bad for everyone, but that will settle out in a year or so. IMO
I disagree, many do keto based on what they heard. How many times I hear that "I have to cut out carbs to lose weight" or "carbs are no good for you". Many do keto based on fear they hear about carbs, many are not well informed on the subject and think the reason they got big in the first place is because they ate too many carbs. Since there is a keto fad going on, it doesn't help that there snake oil salesmen who add fuel to the fire by spouting more non sense (Taubes and Dr Fung come in mind).
Thankfully not everyone who does keto are ignorant on the carbs subject, there are few who do it simply because they just enjoy that type of diet and they still understand that it's all about CICO.
Perhaps I know people better educated on this topic than you do.
There's always going to be misinformed people who eat just bananas or grapefruit or think ACV or veganism will cause weight loss. Of course there will be those misinformed about keto. Since keto has grown in popularity, some of the dietary ignorant have moved over to try it instead of the more typical moderation and lean foods diets. This doesn't mean that keto'ers are misinformed as a group, rather that more of the misinformed are trying keto.
Plus people generalize. IMO, there are carbs that are not very good for you compared to other whole food carbs. I don't think noodles or jujubes or soda are as good for you are an dish of roasted vegetables of identical calories. I think people often think of carbs as things like baked goods and added sugars, rather than vegetables and fruits.
Fung's is a snake oil salesman? Like Ornish,Pritikin, Atkins,Dukkan and every other doctor who wrote a book about the diets they are successfully using to treat their patients?
Taubes is just a journalist who dared to hypothesize and can't prove himself right. His writing is accurate though.
How can we call his writing accurate if his claims can't be proven?
I'm thinking of his original article (What if it's all been a big fat lie) and his book, Good Calories Bad Calories. That was good research and writing. I'm not a fan of his latest book... Can't remember what it was called.6 -
I think part of keto'e popularity is that people are excited to have permission to eat fat again after it was demonized for decades. The pendulum has swung too far if whole food carbs, like vegetables and fruits, are declared bad for everyone, but that will settle out in a year or so. IMO
I disagree, many do keto based on what they heard. How many times I hear that "I have to cut out carbs to lose weight" or "carbs are no good for you". Many do keto based on fear they hear about carbs, many are not well informed on the subject and think the reason they got big in the first place is because they ate too many carbs. Since there is a keto fad going on, it doesn't help that there snake oil salesmen who add fuel to the fire by spouting more non sense (Taubes and Dr Fung come in mind).
Thankfully not everyone who does keto are ignorant on the carbs subject, there are few who do it simply because they just enjoy that type of diet and they still understand that it's all about CICO.
There's always going to be misinformed people who eat just bananas or grapefruit or think ACV or veganism will cause weight loss. Of course there will be those misinformed about keto. Since keto has grown in popularity, some of the dietary ignorant have moved over to try it instead of the more typical moderation and lean foods diets. This doesn't mean that keto'ers are misinformed as a group, rather that more of the misinformed are trying keto.
Well we don't have data to know how many people who do keto are misinformed and which ones are informed. However, when you go around the forums, they are not hard to spot. My beef is not towards those who do keto while having the right information in hand, my beef is with those who spread the lies about carbs and other myths regarding that. Just like I wouldn't hesitate to call out someone who says "eating a banana will cause you to lose weight". But since keto is popular right now, you will definitely get a lot of bad carbs information, much more than anything else because the keto community is the largest diet community group on mfp. In other words, the pool is much bigger, therefore you are more likely to encounter some bad fish.
That's true. More people doing keto correlates with more misinformation being seen. Bigger pool is right.2 -
joemac1988 wrote: »I just hope the spike in low-carb popularity causes the price of poptarts, cereal, bagels, pasta etc to go down. At 400g a day, I spend a fortune lol
400g of carbohydrates?
I would die happy. 7 -
The keto diet is really not a new thing. It was started back in the 1920s by the medical community as a treatment for epilepsy. Later, Dr. Atkins used the principles of it to form the first stage of his Atkins diet, which he came out with in the 1970s.
People have searched for the "perfect" diet nearly as long as obesity has existed. The problem is, there is not one perfect diet, because we are all different. Sure, CICO is sound in general, but there are other factors to consider. What kinds of calories you consume are also important. If you consume something that does not work for your body, you will not benefit. For example, recent studies have shown that people of Mediterranean descent are highly likely to be lactose intolerant, whereas people of Nordic descent are not.
Also, not everyone can tolerate the standard American diet, with its emphasis on whole grains. One example of this would be women with PCOS. PCOS sufferers are insulin resistant, and therefore, eating low-carb is beneficial in managing their health and improving symptoms. Whole grains in SAD amounts only make their symptoms worse.
Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with following a specific diet, as long as you have done the research, and it works for you. What is sustainable for one person is not necessarily so for another. There is no one size fits all answer to weight loss. CICO is great, and necessary for weight loss, but the tweaking of it and how you get to that point is totally up to you.
Also, just in the spirit of transparency, yes, I do keto. It has worked very well for me. Do I proselytize and try to convert others to it? No, absolutely not. However, if people do ask me about it, I offer information and let them know my research sources.30 -
LouisTamsi wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »thoe only ones that are diets are the south beach and the mediterranean. all diets follow CICO(its just an energy blaance) those cleanses arent really diets though. I had the same issue with keto
Yes true, cleanses were the in thing a few years back.
yeah and for some they still are and people THINK those things are needed to lose weight as well.0 -
Low fat dieting has lost its luster a good while ago, so this is no longer a reaction, but you can't deny that it started out this way. It started out as "I can eat fat? Awesome!", but the more popular it got the more it moved into the territory of thinking that "carbs make you fat" is a fact. It's very obvious when threads by people who are new to dieting mention carbs in passing so matter of factly.I think part of keto'e popularity is that people are excited to have permission to eat fat again after it was demonized for decades. The pendulum has swung too far if whole food carbs, like vegetables and fruits, are declared bad for everyone, but that will settle out in a year or so. IMO
I disagree, many do keto based on what they heard. How many times I hear that "I have to cut out carbs to lose weight" or "carbs are no good for you". Many do keto based on fear they hear about carbs, many are not well informed on the subject and think the reason they got big in the first place is because they ate too many carbs. Since there is a keto fad going on, it doesn't help that there snake oil salesmen who add fuel to the fire by spouting more non sense (Taubes and Dr Fung come in mind).
Thankfully not everyone who does keto are ignorant on the carbs subject, there are few who do it simply because they just enjoy that type of diet and they still understand that it's all about CICO.3 -
brneydgrlie wrote: »The keto diet is really not a new thing. It was started back in the 1920s by the medical community as a treatment for epilepsy. Later, Dr. Atkins used the principles of it to form the first stage of his Atkins diet, which he came out with in the 1970s.
People have searched for the "perfect" diet nearly as long as obesity has existed. The problem is, there is not one perfect diet, because we are all different. Sure, CICO is sound in general, but there are other factors to consider. What kinds of calories you consume are also important. If you consume something that does not work for your body, you will not benefit. For example, recent studies have shown that people of Mediterranean descent are highly likely to be lactose intolerant, whereas people of Nordic descent are not.
Also, not everyone can tolerate the standard American diet, with its emphasis on whole grains. One example of this would be women with PCOS. PCOS sufferers are insulin resistant, and therefore, eating low-carb is beneficial in managing their health and improving symptoms. Whole grains in SAD amounts only make their symptoms worse.
Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with following a specific diet, as long as you have done the research, and it works for you. What is sustainable for one person is not necessarily so for another. There is no one size fits all answer to weight loss. CICO is great, and necessary for weight loss, but the tweaking of it and how you get to that point is totally up to you.
Also, just in the spirit of transparency, yes, I do keto. It has worked very well for me. Do I proselytize and try to convert others to it? No, absolutely not. However, if people do ask me about it, I offer information and let them know my research sources.
The SAD is known for the relative *lack* of whole grains, not an emphasis on them.6 -
If you want to talk about a crazy "diet", women in Victorian times used to swallow tapeworms in order to lose weight! :-) Also, there was a thing going around in the late 1970s - early 80s when supermodels would swallow cotton balls, thinking that the fibers swelled in the stomach and reduced their appetites.
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brneydgrlie wrote: »The keto diet is really not a new thing. It was started back in the 1920s by the medical community as a treatment for epilepsy. Later, Dr. Atkins used the principles of it to form the first stage of his Atkins diet, which he came out with in the 1970s.
People have searched for the "perfect" diet nearly as long as obesity has existed. The problem is, there is not one perfect diet, because we are all different. Sure, CICO is sound in general, but there are other factors to consider. What kinds of calories you consume are also important. If you consume something that does not work for your body, you will not benefit. For example, recent studies that have shown that people of Mediterranean descent are highly likely to be lactose intolerant, whereas people of Nordic descent are not.
Also, not everyone can tolerate the standard American diet, with its emphasis on whole grains. One example of this would be women with PCOS. PCOS sufferers are insulin resistant, and therefore, eating low-carb is beneficial in managing their health and improving symptoms. Whole grains in SAD amounts only make their symptoms worse.
Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with following a specific diet, as long as you have done the research, and it works for you. What is sustainable for one person is not necessarily so for another. There is no one size fits all answer to weight loss. CICO is great, and necessary for weight loss, but the tweaking of it and how you get to that point is totally up to you.
Also, just in the spirit of transparency, yes, I do keto. It has worked very well for me. Do I proselytize and try to convert others to it? No, absolutely not. However, if people do ask me about it, I offer information and let them know my research sources.
no one is bashing it for health reasons,that was the whole point in the beginning it was used to treat epilepsy and down the line they found it helps some with type 2,IR,PCOS and a few other health issues(some things it claims to help have not been proven yet though). and not everyone with PCOS has insulin resistance although it is more often a hand in hand type of thing.
but many people now adays think its a special way to lose weight and its going to result in fast fat loss. its not. as for being lactose intolerant its not going to stop you from losing weight,it is going to cause you a lot of stomach and bowel distress like pain,bloating,gas and possible diarrhea or other issues. but its still down to CICO all ways of eating rely on CICO as its an ENERGY balance ,the only way you should have to tweak a diet is if you are intolerant,allergic or cant digest certain foods due to health issues.
as for low carb if it helps with IR and other things then great eat low carb. but not everyone with type 2,IR or other issues have to do keto. there are a lot of people here who do not do keto /low carb and manage those health issues,many without meds. I agree its going to be different for everone of course. I cant do keto with my health issues.
people need to see what works for them and their health issues if it means cutting certain things out because it causes side effects then sure cut them out.but some of these people need to stop believing that keto and certain other ways of eating are a cure all or will do xyz for them when it may not do squat for them. But CICO is what works for everyone. what you eat to get to your calorie deficit is your decision. for you its keto, for others its not.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »brneydgrlie wrote: »The keto diet is really not a new thing. It was started back in the 1920s by the medical community as a treatment for epilepsy. Later, Dr. Atkins used the principles of it to form the first stage of his Atkins diet, which he came out with in the 1970s.
People have searched for the "perfect" diet nearly as long as obesity has existed. The problem is, there is not one perfect diet, because we are all different. Sure, CICO is sound in general, but there are other factors to consider. What kinds of calories you consume are also important. If you consume something that does not work for your body, you will not benefit. For example, recent studies have shown that people of Mediterranean descent are highly likely to be lactose intolerant, whereas people of Nordic descent are not.
Also, not everyone can tolerate the standard American diet, with its emphasis on whole grains. One example of this would be women with PCOS. PCOS sufferers are insulin resistant, and therefore, eating low-carb is beneficial in managing their health and improving symptoms. Whole grains in SAD amounts only make their symptoms worse.
Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with following a specific diet, as long as you have done the research, and it works for you. What is sustainable for one person is not necessarily so for another. There is no one size fits all answer to weight loss. CICO is great, and necessary for weight loss, but the tweaking of it and how you get to that point is totally up to you.
Also, just in the spirit of transparency, yes, I do keto. It has worked very well for me. Do I proselytize and try to convert others to it? No, absolutely not. However, if people do ask me about it, I offer information and let them know my research sources.
The SAD is known for the relative *lack* of whole grains, not an emphasis on them.
And a lack of veg and fruit...5 -
The SAD is known for the relative *lack* of whole grains, not an emphasis on them.
Granted, Wikipedia is not Gospel, but the following is quoted from there. I may be mistaken about what I said regarding "whole grains", but SAD carbs are really quite high.
"The typical American diet is about 50% carbohydrate, 15% protein, and 35% fat.[7] These macronutrient intakes fall within the Acceptable Macronutrient Distribution Ranges (AMDR) for adults identified by the Food and Nutrition Board of the United States Institute of Medicine as "associated with reduced risk of chronic diseases while providing adequate intakes of essential nutrients," which are 45-65% carbohydrate, 10-35% protein, and 20-35% fat as a percentage of total energy.[8] However, the nutritional quality of the specific foods comprising those macronutrients is often poor..."
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janejellyroll wrote: »The SAD is known for the relative *lack* of whole grains, not an emphasis on them.
The SAD is a lame, fictional whipping boy in the first place. Anybody who believes that people in rural Mississippi and people in urban Seattle eat anything close to the same 'standard' diet is out of their flipping mind.
As to the original topic, I have nothing against keto itself. Like any other diet, it can be as healthy or unhealthy as one chooses to make it. It can be much worse than the fictional "SAD", or much better (same with veganism/plant-based, paleo, IIFYM, etc.). For some people it can help with satiety and adherence, for others it can be a disaster.
My objections lie with the wild, outlandish, magical claims perpetuated by quacks and True Believers which defy all established research. And yes, also with the rampant carbophobia created by them.15 -
SAD doesn't exist, we are too diverse of a culture, each bringing our own norms to the table to even begin to define SAD. Now what we could do is instead rebrand it as DAD or the Dysfunctional American Diet, one that is heavy on greasy foods, fast food, junk food, soda, etc. These foods don't hold the nutrients we need as well as being silent calories. Up until a few weeks ago I bet few people knew how many calories were in a supersize big mac value meal. Now I'm not demonizing these foods in and of themselves, but if they're your only diet then problems are on the horizon.3
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brneydgrlie wrote: »
The SAD is known for the relative *lack* of whole grains, not an emphasis on them.
Granted, Wikipedia is not Gospel, but the following is quoted from there. I may be mistaken about what I said regarding "whole grains", but SAD carbs are really quite high.
"The typical American diet is about 50% carbohydrate, 15% protein, and 35% fat.[7] These macronutrient intakes fall within the Acceptable Macronutrient Distribution Ranges (AMDR) for adults identified by the Food and Nutrition Board of the United States Institute of Medicine as "associated with reduced risk of chronic diseases while providing adequate intakes of essential nutrients," which are 45-65% carbohydrate, 10-35% protein, and 20-35% fat as a percentage of total energy.[8] However, the nutritional quality of the specific foods comprising those macronutrients is often poor..."
I'd say my carbs are probably around 50% or more and I wouldn't consider my diet anything close to what most people would consider the SAD. When I hear "SAD" I think of high quantities of low nutrient foods and a substantial lack of veg and fruit...not really a macro %. Most vegans and vegetarians eat well above 50% carbohydrate as well.
Yes, certain medical conditions require the monitoring of carbohydrates...but 50% for a healthy person, particularly if they're eating mostly higher quality carbohydrates isn't really an issue...there's nothing inherently wrong with carbohydrates, but on Facebook at what not, it is very apparent that many people can't seem to figure that out.
Most of my carbs come from whole foods...lots of legumes and lentils, oats, root vegies, veggies, fruit, etc.8 -
brneydgrlie wrote: »
Granted, Wikipedia is not Gospel, but the following is quoted from there. I may be mistaken about what I said regarding "whole grains", but SAD carbs are really quite high.
"The typical American diet is about 50% carbohydrate, 15% protein, and 35% fat.[7] These macronutrient intakes fall within the Acceptable Macronutrient Distribution Ranges (AMDR) for adults identified by the Food and Nutrition Board of the United States Institute of Medicine as "associated with reduced risk of chronic diseases while providing adequate intakes of essential nutrients," which are 45-65% carbohydrate, 10-35% protein, and 20-35% fat as a percentage of total energy.[8] However, the nutritional quality of the specific foods comprising those macronutrients is often poor..."
Interestingly, the vast majority of the world seems to settle somewhere around this macro distribution give or take, it's fascinating. In fact, the American diet has a lower carb percentage compared to most countries.6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »brneydgrlie wrote: »
The SAD is known for the relative *lack* of whole grains, not an emphasis on them.
Granted, Wikipedia is not Gospel, but the following is quoted from there. I may be mistaken about what I said regarding "whole grains", but SAD carbs are really quite high.
"The typical American diet is about 50% carbohydrate, 15% protein, and 35% fat.[7] These macronutrient intakes fall within the Acceptable Macronutrient Distribution Ranges (AMDR) for adults identified by the Food and Nutrition Board of the United States Institute of Medicine as "associated with reduced risk of chronic diseases while providing adequate intakes of essential nutrients," which are 45-65% carbohydrate, 10-35% protein, and 20-35% fat as a percentage of total energy.[8] However, the nutritional quality of the specific foods comprising those macronutrients is often poor..."
I'd say my carbs are probably around 50% or more and I wouldn't consider my diet anything close to what most people would consider the SAD. When I hear "SAD" I think of high quantities of low nutrient foods and a substantial lack of veg and fruit...not really a macro %. Most vegans and vegetarians eat well above 50% carbohydrate as well.
Yes, certain medical conditions require the monitoring of carbohydrates...but 50% for a healthy person, particularly if they're eating mostly higher quality carbohydrates isn't really an issue...there's nothing inherently wrong with carbohydrates, but on Facebook at what not, it is very apparent that many people can't seem to figure that out.
Most of my carbs come from whole foods...lots of legumes and lentils, oats, root vegies, veggies, fruit, etc.
Just to be clear -
1) I am NOT bashing carbs, or those who choose to eat them.
2) I DO believe in CICO for weight loss. How you get to that calorie deficit is up to you, and tweaking your diet to achieve that is fine, in my opinion.
3) I AGREE that there are people who are misinformed about keto, or erroneously think of it as a magic bullet that will solve their problems. There are people who think that about any diet out there, though.
4) And yes, SAD may very well be a misnomer.5 -
brneydgrlie wrote: »Granted, Wikipedia is not Gospel, but the following is quoted from there. I may be mistaken about what I said regarding "whole grains", but SAD carbs are really quite high...
The default macro split on MFP is 50% carbs, 30% protein, 20% fat. Many people have had great success losing weight and hugely improving their health using that macro combination. For an even more extreme example, Google "Twinkie Diet". A professor lost considerable weight and showed vast improvement in his metabolic/health markers while eating a diet largely composed of what people commonly refer to as "junk food". There's also a very enlightening thread right here in the Debate forum: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10348650/cico-still-skeptical-come-inside-for-a-meticulous-log-that-proves-it/p1
Carbs are not the evil bogeyman that keto advocates are making them out to be.6 -
brneydgrlie wrote: »Granted, Wikipedia is not Gospel, but the following is quoted from there. I may be mistaken about what I said regarding "whole grains", but SAD carbs are really quite high...
The default macro split on MFP is 50% carbs, 30% protein, 20% fat. Many people have had great success losing weight and hugely improving their health using that macro combination. For an even more extreme example, Google "Twinkie Diet". A professor lost considerable weight and showed vast improvement in his metabolic/health markers while eating a diet largely composed of what people commonly refer to as "junk food".
Carbs are not the evil bogeyman that keto advocates are making them out to be.
No, they are not evil at all. However 50% is quite high if you have PCOS or another medical issue related to insulin resistance.4 -
brneydgrlie wrote: »brneydgrlie wrote: »Granted, Wikipedia is not Gospel, but the following is quoted from there. I may be mistaken about what I said regarding "whole grains", but SAD carbs are really quite high...
The default macro split on MFP is 50% carbs, 30% protein, 20% fat. Many people have had great success losing weight and hugely improving their health using that macro combination. For an even more extreme example, Google "Twinkie Diet". A professor lost considerable weight and showed vast improvement in his metabolic/health markers while eating a diet largely composed of what people commonly refer to as "junk food".
Carbs are not the evil bogeyman that keto advocates are making them out to be.
However 50% is quite high if you have PCOS or another medical issue related to insulin resistance.
Sure, but what percentage of the population have that medical issue? There will always be exceptions especially with all the people in this world.
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