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Starvation mode
veggiekeller
Posts: 3 Member
in Debate Club
I went to see a dietician for issues I was having with digestion. I have gastroparesis, and I have episodes of sulphuric burps that precede diarrhea and vomiting. I gave her my food log, and she completely ignored the reason I came in for, and went on about how I needed to eat at least 2000 calories a day, and that I am in starvation mode now. I don't feel any of the symptoms of starvation mode, and I am more or less at my goal weight right now which is easily maintainable at 1300-1400 calories without exercise. I am not sleepy or spacey (like what she described people who exhibit symptoms of being in starvation mode) and I can efficiently do my work and maintain an active lifestyle, so what gives? I feel like i'm being lied to here.
3
Replies
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Yes, you're being lied to; deliberately or not is hard to tell. Starvation mode does not exist.28
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kommodevaran wrote: »Yes, you're being lied to; deliberately or not is hard to tell. Starvation mode does not exist.
Of course it exists. It doesn't exist in the way that is sometimes commonly used; i.e. "I'm eating at a deficit but not losing weight because I'm in starvation mode". That won't happen. But just because people misuse the term doesn't mean that starvation mode is not a real thing: it is, and is a physiological response to chronic energy deficit. Presumably a dietitian (who if they're a real dietitian has studied physiology) was using the term correctly. "Sleepy" and "spacey" are plausible symptoms of starvation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response
24 -
So, you posted in the Debate section, expect debate.
The first two posts to your thread suggest the biggest debate.
I'll go further and say - with a medical issue like the one you have, I would not venture to give any suggestions. Your medical team is the best resource. Ask your Dietician to be more specific, maybe.
Then throw this thread at her:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1077746/starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss/p19 -
kommodevaran wrote: »Yes, you're being lied to; deliberately or not is hard to tell. Starvation mode does not exist.
Of course it exists. It doesn't exist in the way that is sometimes commonly used; i.e. "I'm eating at a deficit but not losing weight because I'm in starvation mode". That won't happen. But just because people misuse the term doesn't mean that starvation mode is not a real thing: it is, and is a physiological response to chronic energy deficit. Presumably a dietitian (who if they're a real dietitian has studied physiology) was using the term correctly. "Sleepy" and "spacey" are plausible symptoms of starvation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response
Have you read the article?11 -
@veggiekeller I have gastroparesis that is not well managed and I can barely eat and get less calories than you and am losing. Your dietitian is wrong about starvation mode. I'm starving yes but not in "starvation mode"
5'8
5//8 124
5/12 123.2 (tom)
5/15 122.5
5/18 122
5/24 122.5
5/25 121.7
5/27 120.9
5/30 119.7
6/1 118.9
6/3 117.9
6/7 118. 7
6/23 118.1
6/24 117.5
6/27 117.1
7/2 116.3
7/3 115.7
7/6 114.1
7/7 113.3
7/10 112.9
7/13 112.5
7/15 111.9
7/20 110.9
7/26 109.7
8/7 109.7
8/10 108.929 -
Starvation mode does not exist - the notion that your metabolism slows down in response to decreased caloric intake. The idea is absurd and nothing more than an extreme example of confirmation bias.
Adaptive thermogenesis is quite real and easily confirmed with objective evidence. Your metabolism is nothing more than a series of biochemical reactions and quite established. Any delays or breaks in this chain ends up in serious disease, injury, and death - not weight gain.
Your basal metabolic rate has some minor variation to it ~5% from clinical data and works in the same manner as a fire. Provide more fuel rapidly results in hotter fire, but shorter duration. Provide less fuel over time results in less heat, but longer duration.
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stevencloser wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »Yes, you're being lied to; deliberately or not is hard to tell. Starvation mode does not exist.
Of course it exists. It doesn't exist in the way that is sometimes commonly used; i.e. "I'm eating at a deficit but not losing weight because I'm in starvation mode". That won't happen. But just because people misuse the term doesn't mean that starvation mode is not a real thing: it is, and is a physiological response to chronic energy deficit. Presumably a dietitian (who if they're a real dietitian has studied physiology) was using the term correctly. "Sleepy" and "spacey" are plausible symptoms of starvation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response
Have you read the article?
Have you?
Starvation mode is a state in which the body responds to prolonged periods of low energy intake
They're not hard words to understand
Edit: Since everyone seems so adamant that starvation mode doesn't exist, why don't you edit the wikipedia page so that it says that instead of it saying that it does exist. You'll probably have to edit a few hundred physiological text books and countless journal papers as well but *shrug*28 -
cmriverside wrote: »So, you posted in the Debate section, expect debate.
The first two posts to your thread suggest the biggest debate.
I'll go further and say - with a medical issue like the one you have, I would not venture to give any suggestions. Your medical team is the best resource. Ask your Dietician to be more specific, maybe.
Then throw this thread at her:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1077746/starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss/p1
Yes, because MFP is such a reliable source
If you'll read my original post I specifically said that starvation mode doesn't stop you losing weight and that using the term in that way is incorrect. That doesn't mean that starvation mode doesn't exist (it does), it means that people misuse the term. The thread you linked to even says the same thing (in the second post)!
14 -
Why not juat call it starvation because that is what it is.5
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singingflutelady wrote: »Why not juat call it starvation because that is what it is.
Because starvation and starvation mode are different. Starvation is what causes the physiological and biochemical changes in the body called starvation mode.14 -
You mean adaptive thermogenesis? That's a nuch bettter way to describe it as "starvarion mode" is so misused.10
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singingflutelady wrote: »You mean adaptive thermogenesis? That's a nuch bettter way to describe it as "starvarion mode" is so misused.
I meant starvation mode (adaptive thermogenesis is essentially a synonym for starvation mode).
Equivalent or closely related terms include famine response, starvation mode, famine mode, starvation resistance, starvation tolerance, adapted starvation, adaptive thermogenesis, fat adaptation, and metabolic adaptation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response
Edit: Secondary source here: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1077746/starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss/p16 -
Except that "starvation mode" is generally understood to mean "At a certain point, if you lose too much too fast, your body will hang onto fat and you will even begin to gain weight".
"Adaptive Thermogenesis" means "If you lose too much, too fast, your energy levels will decline, your hunger levels will increase, making it likely that you will overeat and/or binge. Also, due to declining energy levels, you won't be as active, therefore you won't burn as many calories, and the rate at which you lose weight will slow—not stop, and NOT reverse."
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/21 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »Except that "starvation mode" is generally understood to mean "At a certain point, if you lose too much too fast, your body will hang onto fat and you will even begin to gain weight".
"Adaptive Thermogenesis" means "If you lose too much, too fast, your energy levels will decline, your hunger levels will increase, making it likely that you will overeat and/or binge. Also, due to declining energy levels, you won't be as active, therefore you won't burn as many calories, and the rate at which you lose weight will slow—not stop, and NOT reverse."
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/
And if you read my first post, way up the top there, that is exactly what I said (that the way the term is commonly used is a myth/incorrect/doesn't happen). The fact that people misuse or misunderstand a term does not mean that the term (or phenomenon) doesn't exist: it means that people misuse or misunderstand it.10 -
stevencloser wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »Yes, you're being lied to; deliberately or not is hard to tell. Starvation mode does not exist.
Of course it exists. It doesn't exist in the way that is sometimes commonly used; i.e. "I'm eating at a deficit but not losing weight because I'm in starvation mode". That won't happen. But just because people misuse the term doesn't mean that starvation mode is not a real thing: it is, and is a physiological response to chronic energy deficit. Presumably a dietitian (who if they're a real dietitian has studied physiology) was using the term correctly. "Sleepy" and "spacey" are plausible symptoms of starvation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response
Have you read the article?
Have you?
Starvation mode is a state in which the body responds to prolonged periods of low energy intake
They're not hard words to understand
Edit: Since everyone seems so adamant that starvation mode doesn't exist, why don't you edit the wikipedia page so that it says that instead of it saying that it does exist. You'll probably have to edit a few hundred physiological text books and countless journal papers as well but *shrug*
I was thinking of the part under "humans" where the study done showed the reduced energy needs came from mass loss (duh) and less fidgeting, and not some starvation mode. Unless you want to call moving less starvation mode now.7 -
stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »Yes, you're being lied to; deliberately or not is hard to tell. Starvation mode does not exist.
Of course it exists. It doesn't exist in the way that is sometimes commonly used; i.e. "I'm eating at a deficit but not losing weight because I'm in starvation mode". That won't happen. But just because people misuse the term doesn't mean that starvation mode is not a real thing: it is, and is a physiological response to chronic energy deficit. Presumably a dietitian (who if they're a real dietitian has studied physiology) was using the term correctly. "Sleepy" and "spacey" are plausible symptoms of starvation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response
Have you read the article?
Have you?
Starvation mode is a state in which the body responds to prolonged periods of low energy intake
They're not hard words to understand
Edit: Since everyone seems so adamant that starvation mode doesn't exist, why don't you edit the wikipedia page so that it says that instead of it saying that it does exist. You'll probably have to edit a few hundred physiological text books and countless journal papers as well but *shrug*
I was thinking of the part under "humans" where the study done showed the reduced energy needs came from mass loss (duh) and less fidgeting, and not some starvation mode. Unless you want to call moving less starvation mode now.
Under the sections on humans the first sentence is:
Starvation mode is a state in which the body responds to prolonged periods of low energy intake
It gives the definition of starvation mode. If something doesn't exist then there would be no definition.
Did I once say or suggest that starvation mode caused an unexplained reduction in BMR? No, I didn't. Did I mention energy at all in any context? No.8 -
Wow ok on these boards, when people refer to starvation mode, they are referring to the myth that if you are in a calorie different deficit long enough your body will not only stop losing weight, you will actually gain weight - which is bull crud.
Stop with the semantics.
OP ask your dietician to clarify if you have questions. You have a complicated medical background so you won't get good answers here.10 -
Wow ok on these boards, when people refer to starvation mode, they are referring to the myth that if you are in a calorie different deficit long enough your body will not only stop losing weight, you will actually gain weight - which is bull crud.
Stop with the semantics.
OP ask your dietician to clarify if you have questions. You have a complicated medical background so you won't get good answers here.
I'm pretty sure that the OP's dietician didn't refer to MFP's exclusive definition or understanding of starvation mode before using the term LOL
Edit: This whole conversation only happened because the person I responded to way up at the start of the thread accused the OP's dietician of being a liar.7 -
Throwing out the baby with the bath water just because a term has some myths tied to it now. So sad.
https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/another-look-at-metabolic-damage.html/#more-9313
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales/view/reduced-metabolism-tdee-beyond-expected-from-weight-loss-616251
http://skepchick.org/2014/02/the-female-athlete-triad-not-as-fun-as-it-sounds/
Whole lot more recent research on it, especially in view of the research pointing out benefit of refeeds and diet breaks to get hormones back to a good level to help stop was has been observed for many many years regarding the body adapting.
(and notice I never said it stopped fat/weight loss, merely body adapting to make it a whole lot more difficult than it needs to be)9 -
veggiekeller wrote: »I went to see a dietician for issues I was having with digestion. I have gastroparesis, and I have episodes of sulphuric burps that precede diarrhea and vomiting. I gave her my food log, and she completely ignored the reason I came in for, and went on about how I needed to eat at least 2000 calories a day, and that I am in starvation mode now. I don't feel any of the symptoms of starvation mode, and I am more or less at my goal weight right now which is easily maintainable at 1300-1400 calories without exercise. I am not sleepy or spacey (like what she described people who exhibit symptoms of being in starvation mode) and I can efficiently do my work and maintain an active lifestyle, so what gives? I feel like i'm being lied to here.
I found this article in the news which may be worth a read
https://www.google.com/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4533692/amp/Starvation-mode-DOES-exist-Brain-stops-burning-fat.html
Your condition sounds really uncomfortable I feel for you! I think it would be best for you to speak to a specialist who can really advise you on all things diet11
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