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Starvation mode
veggiekeller
Posts: 3 Member
I went to see a dietician for issues I was having with digestion. I have gastroparesis, and I have episodes of sulphuric burps that precede diarrhea and vomiting. I gave her my food log, and she completely ignored the reason I came in for, and went on about how I needed to eat at least 2000 calories a day, and that I am in starvation mode now. I don't feel any of the symptoms of starvation mode, and I am more or less at my goal weight right now which is easily maintainable at 1300-1400 calories without exercise. I am not sleepy or spacey (like what she described people who exhibit symptoms of being in starvation mode) and I can efficiently do my work and maintain an active lifestyle, so what gives? I feel like i'm being lied to here.
3
Replies
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Yes, you're being lied to; deliberately or not is hard to tell. Starvation mode does not exist.28
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kommodevaran wrote: »Yes, you're being lied to; deliberately or not is hard to tell. Starvation mode does not exist.
Of course it exists. It doesn't exist in the way that is sometimes commonly used; i.e. "I'm eating at a deficit but not losing weight because I'm in starvation mode". That won't happen. But just because people misuse the term doesn't mean that starvation mode is not a real thing: it is, and is a physiological response to chronic energy deficit. Presumably a dietitian (who if they're a real dietitian has studied physiology) was using the term correctly. "Sleepy" and "spacey" are plausible symptoms of starvation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response
24 -
So, you posted in the Debate section, expect debate.
The first two posts to your thread suggest the biggest debate.
I'll go further and say - with a medical issue like the one you have, I would not venture to give any suggestions. Your medical team is the best resource. Ask your Dietician to be more specific, maybe.
Then throw this thread at her:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1077746/starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss/p19 -
kommodevaran wrote: »Yes, you're being lied to; deliberately or not is hard to tell. Starvation mode does not exist.
Of course it exists. It doesn't exist in the way that is sometimes commonly used; i.e. "I'm eating at a deficit but not losing weight because I'm in starvation mode". That won't happen. But just because people misuse the term doesn't mean that starvation mode is not a real thing: it is, and is a physiological response to chronic energy deficit. Presumably a dietitian (who if they're a real dietitian has studied physiology) was using the term correctly. "Sleepy" and "spacey" are plausible symptoms of starvation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response
Have you read the article?11 -
@veggiekeller I have gastroparesis that is not well managed and I can barely eat and get less calories than you and am losing. Your dietitian is wrong about starvation mode. I'm starving yes but not in "starvation mode"
5'8
5//8 124
5/12 123.2 (tom)
5/15 122.5
5/18 122
5/24 122.5
5/25 121.7
5/27 120.9
5/30 119.7
6/1 118.9
6/3 117.9
6/7 118. 7
6/23 118.1
6/24 117.5
6/27 117.1
7/2 116.3
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8/10 108.929 -
Starvation mode does not exist - the notion that your metabolism slows down in response to decreased caloric intake. The idea is absurd and nothing more than an extreme example of confirmation bias.
Adaptive thermogenesis is quite real and easily confirmed with objective evidence. Your metabolism is nothing more than a series of biochemical reactions and quite established. Any delays or breaks in this chain ends up in serious disease, injury, and death - not weight gain.
Your basal metabolic rate has some minor variation to it ~5% from clinical data and works in the same manner as a fire. Provide more fuel rapidly results in hotter fire, but shorter duration. Provide less fuel over time results in less heat, but longer duration.
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stevencloser wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »Yes, you're being lied to; deliberately or not is hard to tell. Starvation mode does not exist.
Of course it exists. It doesn't exist in the way that is sometimes commonly used; i.e. "I'm eating at a deficit but not losing weight because I'm in starvation mode". That won't happen. But just because people misuse the term doesn't mean that starvation mode is not a real thing: it is, and is a physiological response to chronic energy deficit. Presumably a dietitian (who if they're a real dietitian has studied physiology) was using the term correctly. "Sleepy" and "spacey" are plausible symptoms of starvation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response
Have you read the article?
Have you?
Starvation mode is a state in which the body responds to prolonged periods of low energy intake
They're not hard words to understand
Edit: Since everyone seems so adamant that starvation mode doesn't exist, why don't you edit the wikipedia page so that it says that instead of it saying that it does exist. You'll probably have to edit a few hundred physiological text books and countless journal papers as well but *shrug*28 -
cmriverside wrote: »So, you posted in the Debate section, expect debate.
The first two posts to your thread suggest the biggest debate.
I'll go further and say - with a medical issue like the one you have, I would not venture to give any suggestions. Your medical team is the best resource. Ask your Dietician to be more specific, maybe.
Then throw this thread at her:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1077746/starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss/p1
Yes, because MFP is such a reliable source
If you'll read my original post I specifically said that starvation mode doesn't stop you losing weight and that using the term in that way is incorrect. That doesn't mean that starvation mode doesn't exist (it does), it means that people misuse the term. The thread you linked to even says the same thing (in the second post)!
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Why not juat call it starvation because that is what it is.5
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singingflutelady wrote: »Why not juat call it starvation because that is what it is.
Because starvation and starvation mode are different. Starvation is what causes the physiological and biochemical changes in the body called starvation mode.14 -
You mean adaptive thermogenesis? That's a nuch bettter way to describe it as "starvarion mode" is so misused.10
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singingflutelady wrote: »You mean adaptive thermogenesis? That's a nuch bettter way to describe it as "starvarion mode" is so misused.
I meant starvation mode (adaptive thermogenesis is essentially a synonym for starvation mode).
Equivalent or closely related terms include famine response, starvation mode, famine mode, starvation resistance, starvation tolerance, adapted starvation, adaptive thermogenesis, fat adaptation, and metabolic adaptation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response
Edit: Secondary source here: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1077746/starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss/p16 -
Except that "starvation mode" is generally understood to mean "At a certain point, if you lose too much too fast, your body will hang onto fat and you will even begin to gain weight".
"Adaptive Thermogenesis" means "If you lose too much, too fast, your energy levels will decline, your hunger levels will increase, making it likely that you will overeat and/or binge. Also, due to declining energy levels, you won't be as active, therefore you won't burn as many calories, and the rate at which you lose weight will slow—not stop, and NOT reverse."
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/21 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »Except that "starvation mode" is generally understood to mean "At a certain point, if you lose too much too fast, your body will hang onto fat and you will even begin to gain weight".
"Adaptive Thermogenesis" means "If you lose too much, too fast, your energy levels will decline, your hunger levels will increase, making it likely that you will overeat and/or binge. Also, due to declining energy levels, you won't be as active, therefore you won't burn as many calories, and the rate at which you lose weight will slow—not stop, and NOT reverse."
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/
And if you read my first post, way up the top there, that is exactly what I said (that the way the term is commonly used is a myth/incorrect/doesn't happen). The fact that people misuse or misunderstand a term does not mean that the term (or phenomenon) doesn't exist: it means that people misuse or misunderstand it.10 -
stevencloser wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »Yes, you're being lied to; deliberately or not is hard to tell. Starvation mode does not exist.
Of course it exists. It doesn't exist in the way that is sometimes commonly used; i.e. "I'm eating at a deficit but not losing weight because I'm in starvation mode". That won't happen. But just because people misuse the term doesn't mean that starvation mode is not a real thing: it is, and is a physiological response to chronic energy deficit. Presumably a dietitian (who if they're a real dietitian has studied physiology) was using the term correctly. "Sleepy" and "spacey" are plausible symptoms of starvation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response
Have you read the article?
Have you?
Starvation mode is a state in which the body responds to prolonged periods of low energy intake
They're not hard words to understand
Edit: Since everyone seems so adamant that starvation mode doesn't exist, why don't you edit the wikipedia page so that it says that instead of it saying that it does exist. You'll probably have to edit a few hundred physiological text books and countless journal papers as well but *shrug*
I was thinking of the part under "humans" where the study done showed the reduced energy needs came from mass loss (duh) and less fidgeting, and not some starvation mode. Unless you want to call moving less starvation mode now.7 -
stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »Yes, you're being lied to; deliberately or not is hard to tell. Starvation mode does not exist.
Of course it exists. It doesn't exist in the way that is sometimes commonly used; i.e. "I'm eating at a deficit but not losing weight because I'm in starvation mode". That won't happen. But just because people misuse the term doesn't mean that starvation mode is not a real thing: it is, and is a physiological response to chronic energy deficit. Presumably a dietitian (who if they're a real dietitian has studied physiology) was using the term correctly. "Sleepy" and "spacey" are plausible symptoms of starvation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response
Have you read the article?
Have you?
Starvation mode is a state in which the body responds to prolonged periods of low energy intake
They're not hard words to understand
Edit: Since everyone seems so adamant that starvation mode doesn't exist, why don't you edit the wikipedia page so that it says that instead of it saying that it does exist. You'll probably have to edit a few hundred physiological text books and countless journal papers as well but *shrug*
I was thinking of the part under "humans" where the study done showed the reduced energy needs came from mass loss (duh) and less fidgeting, and not some starvation mode. Unless you want to call moving less starvation mode now.
Under the sections on humans the first sentence is:
Starvation mode is a state in which the body responds to prolonged periods of low energy intake
It gives the definition of starvation mode. If something doesn't exist then there would be no definition.
Did I once say or suggest that starvation mode caused an unexplained reduction in BMR? No, I didn't. Did I mention energy at all in any context? No.8 -
Wow ok on these boards, when people refer to starvation mode, they are referring to the myth that if you are in a calorie different deficit long enough your body will not only stop losing weight, you will actually gain weight - which is bull crud.
Stop with the semantics.
OP ask your dietician to clarify if you have questions. You have a complicated medical background so you won't get good answers here.10 -
Wow ok on these boards, when people refer to starvation mode, they are referring to the myth that if you are in a calorie different deficit long enough your body will not only stop losing weight, you will actually gain weight - which is bull crud.
Stop with the semantics.
OP ask your dietician to clarify if you have questions. You have a complicated medical background so you won't get good answers here.
I'm pretty sure that the OP's dietician didn't refer to MFP's exclusive definition or understanding of starvation mode before using the term LOL
Edit: This whole conversation only happened because the person I responded to way up at the start of the thread accused the OP's dietician of being a liar.7 -
Throwing out the baby with the bath water just because a term has some myths tied to it now. So sad.
https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/another-look-at-metabolic-damage.html/#more-9313
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales/view/reduced-metabolism-tdee-beyond-expected-from-weight-loss-616251
http://skepchick.org/2014/02/the-female-athlete-triad-not-as-fun-as-it-sounds/
Whole lot more recent research on it, especially in view of the research pointing out benefit of refeeds and diet breaks to get hormones back to a good level to help stop was has been observed for many many years regarding the body adapting.
(and notice I never said it stopped fat/weight loss, merely body adapting to make it a whole lot more difficult than it needs to be)9 -
veggiekeller wrote: »I went to see a dietician for issues I was having with digestion. I have gastroparesis, and I have episodes of sulphuric burps that precede diarrhea and vomiting. I gave her my food log, and she completely ignored the reason I came in for, and went on about how I needed to eat at least 2000 calories a day, and that I am in starvation mode now. I don't feel any of the symptoms of starvation mode, and I am more or less at my goal weight right now which is easily maintainable at 1300-1400 calories without exercise. I am not sleepy or spacey (like what she described people who exhibit symptoms of being in starvation mode) and I can efficiently do my work and maintain an active lifestyle, so what gives? I feel like i'm being lied to here.
I found this article in the news which may be worth a read
https://www.google.com/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4533692/amp/Starvation-mode-DOES-exist-Brain-stops-burning-fat.html
Your condition sounds really uncomfortable I feel for you! I think it would be best for you to speak to a specialist who can really advise you on all things diet11 -
Wow ok on these boards, when people refer to starvation mode, they are referring to the myth that if you are in a calorie different deficit long enough your body will not only stop losing weight, you will actually gain weight - which is bull crud.
Stop with the semantics.
OP ask your dietician to clarify if you have questions. You have a complicated medical background so you won't get good answers here.
I'm pretty sure that the OP's dietician didn't refer to MFP's exclusive definition or understanding of starvation mode before using the term LOL
Edit: This whole conversation only happened because the person I responded to way up at the start of the thread accused the OP's dietician of being a liar.
Pretty sure that starvation mode is 1) not the term professionals in the field usually use for Adaptive Thermogenesis and 2) the fact that according to OP the dietician proclaimed she was in Starvation Mode just from glancing at her food diary and gave her a random flat number without doing any actual, you know, testing of whether she has an actually lowered metabolic rate, is a huge red flag.17 -
stevencloser wrote: »Wow ok on these boards, when people refer to starvation mode, they are referring to the myth that if you are in a calorie different deficit long enough your body will not only stop losing weight, you will actually gain weight - which is bull crud.
Stop with the semantics.
OP ask your dietician to clarify if you have questions. You have a complicated medical background so you won't get good answers here.
I'm pretty sure that the OP's dietician didn't refer to MFP's exclusive definition or understanding of starvation mode before using the term LOL
Edit: This whole conversation only happened because the person I responded to way up at the start of the thread accused the OP's dietician of being a liar.
Pretty sure that starvation mode is 1) not the term professionals in the field usually use for Adaptive Thermogenesis and 2) the fact that according to OP the dietician proclaimed she was in Starvation Mode just from glancing at her food diary and gave her a random flat number without doing any actual, you know, testing of whether she has an actually lowered metabolic rate, is a huge red flag.
First, it was a dietician talking to a member of the public so it would not be surprising if they used a term that they might not necessarily use when talking to another professional. Second, the term "starvation mode" is used professionally.
Go to Google Scholar and search for (with the quotation marks) "starvation mode" humans. I think you'll see that the term is indeed widely used.
9 -
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You need to find a new dietitian, someone who will listen to you.3
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A good read
https://aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/3 -
veggiekeller wrote: »I went to see a dietician for issues I was having with digestion. I have gastroparesis, and I have episodes of sulphuric burps that precede diarrhea and vomiting. I gave her my food log, and she completely ignored the reason I came in for, and went on about how I needed to eat at least 2000 calories a day, and that I am in starvation mode now. I don't feel any of the symptoms of starvation mode, and I am more or less at my goal weight right now which is easily maintainable at 1300-1400 calories without exercise. I am not sleepy or spacey (like what she described people who exhibit symptoms of being in starvation mode) and I can efficiently do my work and maintain an active lifestyle, so what gives? I feel like i'm being lied to here.
You need to find a dietitian who will help you with your problem, and do what your paying them for4 -
Another vote for a new dietitian. (Are you in the US? Make sure they are a dietitian and not a nutritionist.)3
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I classify myself as an obese anorexic. ... There is really no such thing. But it the closest thing to describe me. I am overweight and I struggle to force myself to eat 1000 calories a day. I exercise daily. It is when I increase my calorie intake up to 1200-1500 I lose weight.
What I think is more important to just counting calories is making sure you are hitting your protein fiber goals.22 -
I classify myself as an obese anorexic. ... There is really no such thing. But it the closest thing to describe me. I am overweight and I struggle to force myself to eat 1000 calories a day. I exercise daily. It is when I increase my calorie intake up to 1200-1500 I lose weight.
What I think is more important to just counting calories is making sure you are hitting your protein fiber goals.
I'm assuming this isn't a new situation, that you have been eating this way for awhile. Are you trying to eat all diet or "healthy" foods? Have you been to a doctor about this? Are you using a food scale?
There is evidence to suggest that if you undereat for a long period of time, your body will down-regulate to try to mitigate the damage you are doing by eating too little. But not enough to cause you to not lose weight at 1,000 calories. Having said that, if your weight classifies as obese and you cannot bring yourself to regularly eat more than 1,000 calories, there are 4 options:- You are not using a food scale and/or correct entries in the database, and are actually eating more than you think.
- You have some kind of physical obstruction, or medical condition, that requires immediate care.
- You do in fact have an ED that is causing you to subconsciously ignore hunger signals and need to see a specialist before you do yourself permanent harm.
- You are a scientific anomaly that is literally defying the laws of physics.
If you haven't been using a food scale, get one - it's eye-opening. Double check that the entries you are using in the database are accurate - many are user-entered and not correct. Make sure you aren't eating very low fat - you need dietary fat and a couple of spoonfuls of peanut butter or salad dressing adds an instant 200 calories to your day. And if after you do both those things you are still having to force yourself to eat up to 1,000 calories, please go to the doctor and demand treatment - it is almost impossible you are getting adequate nutrition and fuel from so few calories, and you must have some kind of condition to not lose weight in this situation.18 -
stevencloser wrote: »Wow ok on these boards, when people refer to starvation mode, they are referring to the myth that if you are in a calorie different deficit long enough your body will not only stop losing weight, you will actually gain weight - which is bull crud.
Stop with the semantics.
OP ask your dietician to clarify if you have questions. You have a complicated medical background so you won't get good answers here.
I'm pretty sure that the OP's dietician didn't refer to MFP's exclusive definition or understanding of starvation mode before using the term LOL
Edit: This whole conversation only happened because the person I responded to way up at the start of the thread accused the OP's dietician of being a liar.
Pretty sure that starvation mode is 1) not the term professionals in the field usually use for Adaptive Thermogenesis and 2) the fact that according to OP the dietician proclaimed she was in Starvation Mode just from glancing at her food diary and gave her a random flat number without doing any actual, you know, testing of whether she has an actually lowered metabolic rate, is a huge red flag.
First, it was a dietician talking to a member of the public so it would not be surprising if they used a term that they might not necessarily use when talking to another professional. Second, the term "starvation mode" is used professionally.
Go to Google Scholar and search for (with the quotation marks) "starvation mode" humans. I think you'll see that the term is indeed widely used.
I feel for you on this thread kpsyche because nothing you had written or referenced has deserved to we woo'd IMHO. In fact most replies directed to you haven't referenced what you have written at all but the way completely unrelated posters on other threads have said.
I believe that sometimes the debate section has somewhat of a herd mentality and posters jump on the boards perceived wisdom bandwagon rather then looking at what's being said.7
This discussion has been closed.
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