Anti-Inflammatory Diet for Rheumatoid Arthritis?

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  • CarvedTones
    CarvedTones Posts: 2,340 Member
    edited September 2018
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    dlmcb80 wrote: »
    CarvedTones wrote: »
    singingsheila50 wrote: »
    I have Anklosing Spondylitis which is Rhuemetoid of the spine I eat mostly veggies and fruit

    Have you been tested for HLA-B27? Most people with AS have the antigen. So do a lot of people with RA. Google"HLA-B27 no starch diet". There is some actual science to it having to do with a particular gut microbe that is minimized by a low or no starch diet. It's not a general purpose thing for all inflammation; it is specific to being HLA-B27 positive. I am and I get flares of inflammation from time to time. I tried the diet (there is a whole section on it at KickAS.com) and it was just too hard. But I have undifferentiated spondylitis that moderates quite a bit between flares. It might be worth trying for you.

    I have AS, too, and am negative for HLA-B27, but have celiac and some other auto immune issues. Research has show that more than 50% of people with AS don’t have a positive HLA-B27, and some who do never get AS or have any symptoms of AS. It’s such a complicated disease as everyone reacts differently.
    The auto immune fatigue, when I’m so tired and uncomfortable I could vomit, can be incredibly overwhelming and it feels like no matter how much I sleep I won’t feel rested. This has improved SO much better with eating healthier and exercising. I hope everyone on here is well and feel free to add me if you want. I know the pain of the “invisible illness.” Danielle

    Please provide links to that research. Here is some peer reviewed deep science on HLA-B27 and AS:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1079257/
    In the UK, HLA-B27 is present in 90–95% of patients with ankylosing spondylitis, 60–90% of patients with reactive arthritis, 50–60% of patients with psoriatic arthritis or inflammatory bowel disease and spondylitis, and 80–90% of children with juvenile ankylosing spondylitis.

    and if you want to point out that is just the UK...

    This antigen is associated with ankylosing spondylitis in virtually all racial groups studied. In general, the population prevalence of ankylosing spondylitis parallels the frequency of HLA-B27. However, there is some variation in the strength of the association, which is weaker in native Indonesians, Lebanese, Thais and West Africans.

    So there are a few places where it is less than 90%.

    ETA - You are correct that most people with HLA-B27 do not have AS, though if you read further through the article it notes that if others in your family also carry the antigen it increases your risk of developing a linked health problem by more than 1600%.

    I feel for you having to suffer; please don't take this as a personal attack. I doubt you are spreading misinformation on purpose and I encourage you to speak to your rheumatologist if you don't want to accept a published article posted by some guy on the internt.
  • xmarye
    xmarye Posts: 385 Member
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    Check out Dr Berg on Youtube!
  • CarvedTones
    CarvedTones Posts: 2,340 Member
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    Ideabaker wrote: »
    Dr. Michael Greger focuses all of his work on evidence based research on nutrition for wellness. He has a whole series on fighting inflammation with diet, including spices, nuts, and much much more. Go onto Youtube and Search "Nutrition Facts" (his channel) "Inflammation"... you'll see his short (generally 2-4 minutes long) videos on an array of nutrition facts for improving inflammatory conditions. Hope he has suggestions that can help you (along with your doctor's care).

    *Edited for preciseness

    I checked out some of his info. He references a study on obese patients that noted a seeming correlation between diet and inflammation but did not establish a strong enough link to determine whether it is a cause. When I was obese, I suffered a lot more inflammation from arthritic spikes. Healthy eating is a good idea for a lot of reasons but I don't think he made a strong case for the suggested diet to help with inflammation caused by specific medical conditions.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    edited September 2018
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    GCLyds wrote: »
    Autoimmune Paleo removes all the inflammatory triggers and then gradually reintroduces some after gut healing has taken place.

    If AIP has helped you, that's great, but the science and studies don't support it. There have been two studies on AIP over the last four/five years and while they found it helped IBD/IBS and Chrone's, it barely budged C Reactive Proteins, which are the "classic" biomarkers of inflammation. For over 2/3 of the participants, it didn't budge enough to be even statistically significant. When I've asked AIP bloggers to explain this and why it's not moving more, you get crickets.

    I wanted to believe that AIP was the magic bullet that people claim it is but the actual science doesn't support that. Personally, I feel it's because people are eating too many animal products on AIP, which have been shown to promote inflammation. Also, there's not enough fiber on AIP with all the carb restrictions. Scientists are just beginning to understand how important fiber is for inflammation.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5647120/
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,910 Member
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    I knew a guy who had debilitating Ankylosing Spondylitis which was so helped by yoga that he became a certified teacher. He didn't mention dietary changes to me.
  • CarvedTones
    CarvedTones Posts: 2,340 Member
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    kshama2001 wrote: »
    I knew a guy who had debilitating Ankylosing Spondylitis which was so helped by yoga that he became a certified teacher. He didn't mention dietary changes to me.

    "Ankylosing" basically means fusing and if you keep moving the vertebrae around a lot, they can't fuse. My spondylitis is "undifferentiated" and staying limber helps. It's counter-intuitive sometimes but when I have a lot of back pain one of the worst things I can do is keep it perfectly still; the vertebrae that are grinding against each other will stay in contact. I also have spinal stenosis, which can result in pinching nerves and if I grit my teeth and move around a little the nerves will be freed a lot quicker than if I lie on my back waiting for it to happen.

    Note that this is not for muscle pain. You do want to stop moving and rest for that.
  • mfp4kc
    mfp4kc Posts: 29 Member
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    Have you thought about turmeric for overall joint health support? Here is some research about the spice: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5003001/
  • TarryTaffy
    TarryTaffy Posts: 883 Member
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    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    asthma is NOT considered an autoimmune disorder https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20477126 I have asthma you will lose weight doing CD and IF if you are in a calorie deficit. Ive done IF all my life and I even gained weight doing it because I ate more than I burned. I have asthma,RA and several other health issues and IF has NOT made any improvements to those things. blood tests can improve with just weight loss itself no matter how you eat. you cannot cure asthma or RA, you can treat those things but there are NO cures

    Not according to what I've found & we can go back & forth all day on quoting articles. I'm sorry you didn't have the same results, but my asthma was 50% improved in 3-days of Carnivore. I don't think I was as dedicated as I should have been, so I'm beginning again.

    I think you're right on calorie counting. I haven't done that, so will. My asthma also worsened with the weight gain... so it's important this time that I stick to it & do it right.

    "In summary, asthma is a heterogeneous disorder characterized by chronic inflammation of the respiratory airways that can be triggered by allergen exposure or by other mechanisms, possibly autoreactive/autoimmune. The autoimmune hypothesis is further, indirectly, supported by the response to immunosuppressive drugs."
  • Keto_Vampire
    Keto_Vampire Posts: 1,670 Member
    edited September 2018
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    Fast120 wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    asthma is NOT considered an autoimmune disorder https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20477126 I have asthma you will lose weight doing CD and IF if you are in a calorie deficit. Ive done IF all my life and I even gained weight doing it because I ate more than I burned. I have asthma,RA and several other health issues and IF has NOT made any improvements to those things. blood tests can improve with just weight loss itself no matter how you eat. you cannot cure asthma or RA, you can treat those things but there are NO cures

    Not according to what I've found & we can go back & forth all day on quoting articles. I'm sorry you didn't have the same results, but my asthma was 50% improved in 3-days of Carnivore. I don't think I was as dedicated as I should have been, so I'm beginning again.

    I think you're right on calorie counting. I haven't done that, so will. My asthma also worsened with the weight gain... so it's important this time that I stick to it & do it right.

    "In summary, asthma is a heterogeneous disorder characterized by chronic inflammation of the respiratory airways that can be triggered by allergen exposure or by other mechanisms, possibly autoreactive/autoimmune. The autoimmune hypothesis is further, indirectly, supported by the response to immunosuppressive drugs."

    Yes, certain subtypes of Asthma are considered autoimmune based on the root underlying cause (admitted this is quite nebulous/seldom determined unless Dx'd by Pulmonologist).
  • CharlieBeansmomTracey
    CharlieBeansmomTracey Posts: 7,682 Member
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    Fast120 wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    asthma is NOT considered an autoimmune disorder https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20477126 I have asthma you will lose weight doing CD and IF if you are in a calorie deficit. Ive done IF all my life and I even gained weight doing it because I ate more than I burned. I have asthma,RA and several other health issues and IF has NOT made any improvements to those things. blood tests can improve with just weight loss itself no matter how you eat. you cannot cure asthma or RA, you can treat those things but there are NO cures

    Not according to what I've found & we can go back & forth all day on quoting articles. I'm sorry you didn't have the same results, but my asthma was 50% improved in 3-days of Carnivore. I don't think I was as dedicated as I should have been, so I'm beginning again.

    I think you're right on calorie counting. I haven't done that, so will. My asthma also worsened with the weight gain... so it's important this time that I stick to it & do it right.

    "In summary, asthma is a heterogeneous disorder characterized by chronic inflammation of the respiratory airways that can be triggered by allergen exposure or by other mechanisms, possibly autoreactive/autoimmune. The autoimmune hypothesis is further, indirectly, supported by the response to immunosuppressive drugs."

    umm what I linked to is NOT an article its a scientific study. and if your asthma improved it was probably due to cutting out things that triggered it. either allergens or foods you had allergies to you may not have thought to be allergic to. asthma seems worse the heavier you are because the extra weight puts a strain on your cardiovascular system your lungs have to work harder when you are overweight to get oxygen in. asthma is NOT a curable disease its a lung disease. you can treat your asthma and the symptoms and you cant ougrow it like once believed. the only way to get rid of asthma is maybe a lung transplant. dont you think if it was curable they would put people on a CD and IF?

    asthma is also considered to be caused by an overactive immune system-https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentID=123&ContentTypeID=134
    and its not curable-https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health-topics/asthma

    you do realize that asthma can also be hereditary right? which means that you cannot prevent it or cure it,if it runs in your family. you can prevent flare upsm,you can strenghten your lungs with exercise and breathing techniques(I have done this) but for some asthma may have seemed to go away or they may have no symptoms for years or decades and then one day they have an attack and can die. asthma is not a joke and nothing to mess with. Im glad you had less flare ups but 3 days is too early to tell anything.

    I would say its a coincidence/. It would be the same if you did an elimination diet it takes longer than 30 days for most people to notice what their allergies/intolerances are. I developed asthma at the age of 3 and still have it at 44. some develop it at a young age and some not until they are older. There are many causes. if you think your asthma was improved in 3 days with some diet maybe you need to contact the AMA,scientists and lung specialist so they can study you to see if said diet is the cause.Im being serious about that and not being a smart *kitten*

  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    edited September 2018
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    I like Shawn Baker personally (got to know him from rowing, not nutrition), but his approach is very radical and has very little long-term data behind it.

    Think this is a very fair (and unbiased) review of some of Shawn's recent bloodwork, which you have to credit him for releasing for public analysis. It seems to work for Shawn for training, rowing world records and inflammation. Long term affect, who knows.

    People seem to gravitate toward Shawn because he's a doc, he's very open about what he's doing and he has had huge successes. But also understand, Shawn was a world class athlete BEFORE he went all carnivore. He set WR powerlifting records before being all carnivore. He was a semi pro rugby player also. The guy hardly morphed into some beast after going carnivore. He also trains absurdly hard. That is why he went all carnivore. Said it helped him to recover from his ridiculous training regimen. With that said, there's a ton of WR holders in rowing that aren't all carnivore and some don't have the build/athletic ability of Shawn and eat their fair share of veggies and carbs.

    http://cholesterolcode.com/thoughts-on-shawn-bakers-labs/
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member
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    I have RA and found that controlling my stress is the best thing I can do besides heavy lifting which allows me to be med free. Actually broke 4 powerlifting records days after my 49th birthday a couple weeks ago. Funny how I can't hold a cup of coffee in the morning, but I pull well over 500lbs off the floor.

    Diet doesn't effect me in the least & I eat alot of ice cream and pasteries every day.
  • CharlieBeansmomTracey
    CharlieBeansmomTracey Posts: 7,682 Member
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    Chieflrg wrote: »
    I have RA and found that controlling my stress is the best thing I can do besides heavy lifting which allows me to be med free. Actually broke 4 powerlifting records days after my 49th birthday a couple weeks ago. Funny how I can't hold a cup of coffee in the morning, but I pull well over 500lbs off the floor.

    Diet doesn't effect me in the least & I eat alot of ice cream and pasteries every day.

    for me lifting has helped with the pain and the sore and tender spots. which are not sore and tender as long as I lift weights. if I go any length of time I feel it ten fold
  • Orphia
    Orphia Posts: 7,097 Member
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    Fast120 wrote: »
    Asthma is not familial in my case... I also didn't say I was cured in 3-days and/or didn't mean to give that impression... it was greatly lessened in 3-days, which was 8-wks ago. It continued improving, 'til I began adding in foods I now know, should have gone without. I'm not a respiratory doctor & am assuming you're not any kind of dr either... but, they're not the only ones who find cures. We all know such cases... I am, in fact, with separate former issues, now long gone.

    [...]

    You're right about weight gain & worsening asthma, at least in my case. And, thanks for the reminder to calorie count with CD. I wasn't, but today, after 10-lbs of weight gain in 2-mos... not what I wanted, I am back on strict CD & IF. I feel better already with IF... although, I'm a rare bird in that an empty stomach has always feel invigorating to me... I always thought it was due to lightheadedness, but I think it's just having more energy resources available for other things besides digestion. It was working, but I got sloppy & started drinking ale, making wine reduction sauces & eating potatoes. I think I need to be on it far longer before I can begin adding foods/drinks in & obviously, what I added back brought me back to square 1.

    Your asthma is very likely to have eased of its own accord, and increased in the same way, all unrelated to diet.

    The same goes for RI flares.

    Diet is not the cause or cure of all ills.

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