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Is veganism only possible with enough money?
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oooaarrrr79 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »oooaarrrr79 wrote: »It depends where you shop. I shopped at one place and I could spend a good amount on food and would have to replace it throughout the week and it worked out very expensive, I then found somewhere else where it was so much cheaper, I would say a quarter of the price I used to pay so I suppose it is about literally shopping around.
For me though I was vegan for ethical reasons and 3 years ago I had so many issues with the lack of b12, iron deficiency with having to have 3 iron infusions in less than 12 months, loss of hair and I mean massive bold patches. I fell pregnant and couldn't for myself and my baby continue with a vegan lifestyle. I only eat chicken and have only introduced milk slowly.
That was just me though so for me personally it was a question of cost to my health over the cost in money.
The choice of where to shop is going to have a big influence on your food costs whether you're vegan or non-vegan.
I was just giving my personal experience relating to question that was asked that was specifically relating to being vegan. Of course I know if you shop somewhere more expensive it will cost you more and I think that a lot of people, including myself are not stupid enough to think any different.
Good lord
I have no idea why you're upset. I wasn't saying you were stupid, I was just saying that the fact that your grocery bill will vary depending on where you choose to shop isn't related to veganism. It's something that everyone faces.
If you're saying that is what you actually meant and everyone knows it already, then I'm not sure why you posted it in a thread about veganism.6 -
oooaarrrr79 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »oooaarrrr79 wrote: »It depends where you shop. I shopped at one place and I could spend a good amount on food and would have to replace it throughout the week and it worked out very expensive, I then found somewhere else where it was so much cheaper, I would say a quarter of the price I used to pay so I suppose it is about literally shopping around.
For me though I was vegan for ethical reasons and 3 years ago I had so many issues with the lack of b12, iron deficiency with having to have 3 iron infusions in less than 12 months, loss of hair and I mean massive bold patches. I fell pregnant and couldn't for myself and my baby continue with a vegan lifestyle. I only eat chicken and have only introduced milk slowly.
That was just me though so for me personally it was a question of cost to my health over the cost in money.
The choice of where to shop is going to have a big influence on your food costs whether you're vegan or non-vegan.
I was just giving my personal experience relating to question that was asked that was specifically relating to being vegan. Of course I know if you shop somewhere more expensive it will cost you more and I think that a lot of people, including myself are not stupid enough to think any different.
Good lord
Wow, talk about easily triggered. B12 deficiency can cause changes in mood. Maybe you should drink a glass of milk or something...10 -
I think it depends. There are a lot of vegans on low incomes who make it work. But for some people, veganism isn't possible on a low income even if they want to be vegan, because they live in places where fresh, cheap food isn't readily available, there are no ready sources of protein that don't come from animals, they can't afford transport to go and buy the food, they can't prep food, their health/medical needs rule out veganism, they can't afford the fuel costs to use a cooker, or they don't own a cooker, microwave or fridge so they can't keep fresh food or cook it. There's no point recommending cheap food that people take for granted to people who, for whatever reason, can't access it. So I guess the answer is yes and no. Veganism is possible on a low income, but in certain circumstances it's impossible, too.1
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Millicent3015 wrote: »I think it depends. There are a lot of vegans on low incomes who make it work. But for some people, veganism isn't possible on a low income even if they want to be vegan, because they live in places where fresh, cheap food isn't readily available, there are no ready sources of protein that don't come from animals, they can't afford transport to go and buy the food, they can't prep food, their health/medical needs rule out veganism, they can't afford the fuel costs to use a cooker, or they don't own a cooker, microwave or fridge so they can't keep fresh food or cook it. There's no point recommending cheap food that people take for granted to people who, for whatever reason, can't access it. So I guess the answer is yes and no. Veganism is possible on a low income, but in certain circumstances it's impossible, too.
I agree that there are many factors related to having a low income that make eating an optimally healthy diet of any variety (vegan, vegetarian, omnivorous, keto, etc.) far more challenging.
But I don't see how most of those problems affect someone eating a vegan diet more than they would affect someone who is eating a diet that includes animal products.
Why does the food have to be fresh? If it does, where are these places with plenty of fresh animal food products but no fresh plant food products?
I have found dried beans in package-goods and other convenience-type stores. They're cheap, and one of the best sources of vegan protein. Many such stores will also carry masa. Eaten together (beans and tortillas), they provide a complete protein.
I agree prepping is a big issue when your time and energy are eaten up by multiple jobs and long bus commutes, your flat may not have dependable electricity and water or functioning refrigerator or stove, and your income insecurity makes it risky to stock up on frozen food because your shifts might get cut next week and you won't be able to pay the electric bill to keep the refrigerator running. But I don't see how those problems go away if you're eating animal-based food products.
There are always trade offs between nutritious food, convenient (low-labor) food, and cheap food. For those living on a low income, the ability to trade off cheapness for more convenience and/or nutrition isn't really an option. I'm just not convinced that those are inherently greater problems on a vegan diet than on an omnivorous diet.
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Generally speaking, vegan food sources are cheaper than diets that include a lot of animal protein. Convenience costs regardless of eating style. Think rice and beans.3
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I am a mother of four making dinner for 6 people a night and as a vegan we only spend about 100 dollars a week on groceries5
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No I grew up on beans, rice and oatmeal and we weren’t even vegan 😂2
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The vegan friendly recipes I have are actually the cheapest and easiest to prepare meals I make. They can can all be made using canned or frozen beans/veggies, can be put in the crockpot in the morning so they are ready when I get home, and make several servings with lots of leftovers that I use for lunches through the week, and my kids and husband eat them too.
That said, do I want to use only those recipes, or would it be sustainable for me to do so? No, probably not, at least not for me and not now while I am fortunate enough to be in a situation that I don't have to try to eat all "cheap" meals bc of a tight budget. I am also not a vegan so it's hard to say that I wouldn't find using those recipes all the time satisfying if I strongly felt it was the right thing to do.0 -
Just to clarify, the question in the OP was for one small adult, not a family of four. Feeding a family of four on the stated budget would be basically impossible, vegan or not.
i know, I just hate that these threads always use a household size of 1 as the example. Most people live with others/have families that they also have to cook for. I'm just really interested in seeing if anyone can pull off a family friendly vegan day of eating. I've never seen it done on here.
So i guess someone could just multiply the individual allowance by 4 and use that as the hypothetical budget?
Join vegan groups on fb. They will be happy to share. I know tons of vegan from groups that are just them and their spouse or a huge family. We even have a what broke vegans eat wear and use group but it's mostly recipes. How to vegan is a fb group that might give you a lot of feedback for meal ideas. I would also work on your energy, your statements came off very passive aggressive. c:2 -
I lived on a $100/month food budget for about 10 years. Yes, I got sick of it. Yes, I stuck to it anyway. I ate simple meals from bulk grains (oats, lentils, mung beans, beans, rice, etc.) I had the luxury of living near a mill so I could mix it up when they had a sale (triticale, teff, sorghum, etc.). I bought most fruits and veggies frozen on sale. I sought out the places that sold damaged produce for fresh options. I cooked once a week; it wasn't too hard, but it did lack variety. I admit I wasn't vegan, so I got a lot of protein from canned tuna fish. Having a flexible diet made it a lot easier for me. If I went back to that budget, I would be 90% vegan as a matter of course. As I later learned, adding dairy and red meat to the above diet is the fastest way to double the budget.2
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My boyfriend and I are both happily vegan on a very standard budget for a couple, about £40 of shopping a week. Easy peasy!0
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I've done a couple vegan diet challenges (no more than 3 weeks at a time) and I found that when I was spending the least, I was also getting the least food and felt sick and weak more often. If I had more time to really plan and figure out what works and what doesn't, I'm sure I would have felt better and done better. However, it depends on where you shop, where you live (big cities have a higher cost of living, including groceries), and how you eat. Fresh mushrooms are expensive. Canned mushrooms are not, but they're high in sodium. Dried and canned beans and rice are pretty cheap, but pretty tasteless. Can you grow some of your own food? I grow tomatoes and peppers in my back yard now, which helps with fresh produce. Can you afford nutritional yeast for flavor and protein? Do you have a well stocked spice rack? Do the stores near you offer reduced prices for older or oddly shaped produce? Are there any shops or markets around you that sell cheap fresh bread, veggies, fruits, and grains? Many grains with the highest protein are also the most expensive, especially when they come out as the "next big thing." Once health blogs start promoting a food, it skyrockets in price.
So, is it possible? Sure. Is it fun and tasty? Nope. Is it sustainable? How many days in a row can you eat the same thing? I'd say it's much harder to do if you start as an omnivore. It was still hard for me starting as a vegetarian.6 -
What’s not fun or tasty about, say, Thai butternut squash curry with coconut, or black bean chilli, or tortillas with refried beans and mango salsa?
Sounds like a lot of people here just seriously lack imagination and creativity in their cooking.7 -
I dunno... if you were nudest and ate only plants you found in a forest, while simultaneously living there, it would be pretty cheap.0
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What’s not fun or tasty about, say, Thai butternut squash curry with coconut, or black bean chilli, or tortillas with refried beans and mango salsa?
Sounds like a lot of people here just seriously lack imagination and creativity in their cooking.
Agreed. I just made ginger-peanut tempeh, ginger-sesame mashed potatoes, and haupia coconut pudding. Going to be a flavor-fest for dinner tomorrow night!4 -
I'm a vegetarian, but occasionally some of my meals are vegan. I've also got a few friends who are vegan and on a budget. Really as long as you don't mind cooking and only treat the substitute foods as occasional "treats" it tends to be pretty cheap. My wife and kids still eat meat and it and the convenience foods tend to be the most expensive parts of our food budget.
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it bothers me that a lot of vegans refuse to accept the fact that their way of eating is a huge privilege. It's a luxury really.
Your post made me wonder: don't people have gardens anymore? I mean, we weren't rich when I was growing up but land was cheap where we lived and my parents had a huge garden. Kept us fed with so many fresh veggies and canning, etc. Where I live now, space is at such a premium-I guess I could grow a lot if I really got creative and put my mind to it.
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i used to spend about £10 a week on my food when i was a vegan and skint. pasta, beans, veg, fruit, oats and i just got more expensive stuff when it was reduced to like 10p at the end of the day. this was like 8 years ago before they had all the expensive alternatives availible at the supermarkets though, just dried soya mince.
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What’s not fun or tasty about, say, Thai butternut squash curry with coconut, or black bean chilli, or tortillas with refried beans and mango salsa?
Sounds like a lot of people here just seriously lack imagination and creativity in their cooking.
For what it's worth, the way some people talk about cooking meat (chicken breast especially...or just chicken in general), I think the same thing about creativity in cooking. I suspect some people just flat out don't know how to cook with a lot of variety.
I mean my dinner this evening was far from exciting, but plain isn't really the norm for me in terms of what I cook. It doesn't matter if what I'm making is vegetarian, vegan, or has meat.1
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