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What commonly given MFP Forum advice do you personally disagree with?
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I might get roasted for this, but I think micros do matter not just macros. People should eat nutrient dense foods as often as possible. Also, I think grains should not be a staple and that you should get your carbs largely from gluten free starches (potato, rice, etc) and fruits.
Obviously if you have celiac disease or diagnosed gluten intolerance you should avoid gluten. If not, there's nothing wrong with it.
I'm diabetic and know my tolerances for various carbs through blood sugar testing - for me, rice is one of the worst things I can eat, it spikes me like crazy. Potatoes on the other hand are fine. I have diabetic friends who are the opposite. If two people who have the same illness have such different reactions, it seems likely that overgeneralizing about healthy people is also a bad idea. Different people are different.14 -
CurlyGirl_OnKeto wrote: »You can eat your calories burned from working out. I don't like this advice.
Why.....that's how the tool (MFP) is designed to work.
If I didn't eat mine back, I'd be running a nearly a 2,000 calorie deficit per day.11 -
I might get roasted for this, but I think micros do matter not just macros.
Did you not read the posts before yours?
(TLDR: pretty much everyone agrees that nutrition is important.)Also, I think grains should not be a staple and that you should get your carbs largely from gluten free starches (potato, rice, etc) and fruits.
Rice is generally considered a grain. (So are corn and oats, neither of which has gluten.)
In any event, I would not agree that gluten is an issue or that tubers or rice are somehow inherently better than grains. I find potatoes filling, same with sweet potatoes and beans and lentils, and I like that beans and lentils have more protein, but many very healthful meals are based around grains.
I'd put vegetables and fruits (to a lesser degree) on a higher level of importance, but that doesn't mean I'd cut out other carbs.6 -
CurlyGirl_OnKeto wrote: »You can eat your calories burned from working out. I don't like this advice.
That's not advice... it's just the way MFP is designed. If a person doesn't see results that way, or doesn't lose at the expected rate, it points to logging errors or overestimating calorie burns.6 -
One thing that gets repeated ad nauseam, that is 100% true but kind of simplistic is "All you need to lose weight is to be in a caloric deficit". That's kind of like saying "All you need to win a hockey game is to score more goals than your opponent". Really, is that all? Well, now that I know I think I'll go get drafted by the NHL.
What about the specifics such as strategies for controlling appetite, keeping satiated, getting all the right nutrients, etc.? I can drink my daily calorie target in one sitting by just chugging on pop, but it won't give me any protein, vitamins or minerals and I'll be hungry in less than an hour. This is where things like the low-carb/keto/paleo diets come in handy for some people but people bash them because it's not just calorie counting. I had people jump down my throat once when I suggested eating less fruit because it's very high in sugar and leaves you hungry relatively soon after eating it.34 -
janejellyroll wrote: »FitAndLean_5738 wrote: »People trash talking cardio. I'm a runner and I enjoy running and I don't appreciate it when people talk about running as if it's going to kill you. Now I understand that some people don't like running and that's fine -- you have to find a workout program that works for you -- but the belittlement of people who like to run, or people who like cardio in general, sometimes makes me feel like running isn't a good workout and I should go to the gym to lift. Of course I never do that because I don't like going to the gym. I'd rather run outside and do calisthenics than go to the gym and lift weights. That's what works for me.
I also dislike the whole, "if you run you're going to eat up all your muscles" idea. Or the general cardio is going to cause your muscles to waste away and you're going to be left with all this flab and turn into a stringy, fat laden, skinny noodle person.
Where have you seen people who enjoy running being belittled here? I'm just curious because I don't think I've ever seen that.
I've seen it here, but not often. It's shown up occasionally, like in threads where people are talking about doing/liking whatever cardio (not always running) but wanting to add/preserve muscle and asking for help with that. Somebody comes in and says OP has to give up the long-form cardio (maybe do HIIT instead, of all things) because cardio just burns up muscle. Then others say that's stupid bro-vice, and the OP gets pointed to the "which lifting program" thread, and is told they'll be fine as long as they fuel their total exercise load.
So, yeah: Have seen it, but it pretty much gets poo-poo-ed and dismissed quickly.
There was one thread, though, where there was a more extended kind of a battle of JPGs, showing ultra-thin distance runners who had, to put it gently, a seeming lack of interest in upper body development. I'd link it, but I can't remember what it was.3 -
coderdan82 wrote: »One thing that gets repeated ad nauseam, that is 100% true but kind of simplistic is "All you need to lose weight is to be in a caloric deficit". That's kind of like saying "All you need to win a hockey game is to score more goals". Really, is that all? Well, now that I know I think I'll go get drafted by the NHL.
What about the specifics such as strategies for controlling appetite, keeping satiated, getting all the right nutrients, etc.? I can drink my daily calorie target in one sitting by just chugging on pop, but it won't give me any protein, vitamins or minerals and I'll be hungry in less than an hour. This is where things like the low-carb/keto/paleo diets come in handy for some people but people bash them because it's not just calorie counting. I had people jump down my throat once when I suggested eating less fruit because it's very high in sugar and leaves you hungry relatively soon after eating it.
macros vs. micro...at the macro level yes all you need to do to lose weight is have a caloric deficit - and all you other strategies fall to the micro level of planning and execution
re: the less fruit - that might be true for you - but for me, a banana can leave me satiated for several hours compared to other options5 -
coderdan82 wrote: »One thing that gets repeated ad nauseam, that is 100% true but kind of simplistic is "All you need to lose weight is to be in a caloric deficit". That's kind of like saying "All you need to win a hockey game is to score more goals". Really, is that all? Well, now that I know I think I'll go get drafted by the NHL.
What about the specifics such as strategies for controlling appetite, keeping satiated, getting all the right nutrients, etc.? I can drink my daily calorie target in one sitting by just chugging on pop, but it won't give me any protein, vitamins or minerals and I'll be hungry in less than an hour. This is where things like the low-carb/keto/paleo diets come in handy for some people but people bash them because it's not just calorie counting. I had people jump down my throat once when I suggested eating less fruit because it's very high in sugar and leaves you hungry relatively soon after eating it.
Does it seem remotely realistic to you that someone would be here logging their calories and decide to consume their entire goal in soda pop in the space of one hour?
Also, it may be true that fruit leaves *you* hungry after eating it, but that's not a universal thing. There are people who find fruit to be a great snack, which is why it can be so unhelpful to make generalizations about how different foods/macro goals impact people.16 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Does it seem remotely realistic to you that someone would be here logging their calories and decide to consume their entire goal in soda pop in the space of one hour?
My example was extreme on purpose to call out the fact that there are strategies to be worked out and some of the approaches people take get ridiculed even though they work for some people.janejellyroll wrote: »Also, it may be true that fruit leaves *you* hungry after eating it, but that's not a universal thing. There are people who find fruit to be a great snack, which is why it can be so unhelpful to make generalizations about how different foods/macro goals impact people.deannalfisher wrote: »re: the less fruit - that might be true for you - but for me, a banana can leave me satiated for several hours compared to other options
It was a suggestion, not a generalization.18 -
CurlyGirl_OnKeto wrote: »You can eat your calories burned from working out. I don't like this advice.
How does your car run without fuel?
Making comparisons on energy utilization between humans and cars...(><)
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coderdan82 wrote: »One thing that gets repeated ad nauseam, that is 100% true but kind of simplistic is "All you need to lose weight is to be in a caloric deficit". That's kind of like saying "All you need to win a hockey game is to score more goals than your opponent". Really, is that all? Well, now that I know I think I'll go get drafted by the NHL.
It's nothing like saying all you need to do to win is to score more goals.
The difference is that I have control over how much I eat. And if I try to control calories and find myself consistently going over, I -- and specifically I, not others on MFP -- have the best ability to look at the data and what happened during the day and understand why that was and what should change.What about the specifics such as strategies for controlling appetite, keeping satiated, getting all the right nutrients, etc.?
People give advice on these things all the time.I had people jump down my throat once when I suggested eating less fruit because it's very high in sugar and leaves you hungry relatively soon after eating it.
Because fruit doesn't leave people in general hungry relatively soon after eating it. I find fruit quite filling.
If it works for you, that's great -- that's my whole point about how each person is the expert on what works for them. Telling others they should avoid fruit is a whole different matter.14 -
coderdan82 wrote: »One thing that gets repeated ad nauseam, that is 100% true but kind of simplistic is "All you need to lose weight is to be in a caloric deficit". That's kind of like saying "All you need to win a hockey game is to score more goals than your opponent". Really, is that all? Well, now that I know I think I'll go get drafted by the NHL.
What about the specifics such as strategies for controlling appetite, keeping satiated, getting all the right nutrients, etc.? I can drink my daily calorie target in one sitting by just chugging on pop, but it won't give me any protein, vitamins or minerals and I'll be hungry in less than an hour. This is where things like the low-carb/keto/paleo diets come in handy for some people but people bash them because it's not just calorie counting. I had people jump down my throat once when I suggested eating less fruit because it's very high in sugar and leaves you hungry relatively soon after eating it.
The problem is that the ONLY thing that is definitely true for everyone is CICO. If someone says they are struggling to stay under their calorie goal, or are too hungry, they will get plenty of suggestions. But when someone posts "I'm can't seem to cut out junk food, I'll never lose this weight" they are rightly told, don't worry about cutting it all out, all you really need is a deficit.
Some people do better with increased protein, others fat. Some need either of those combined with fiber. Some people find starches make them hungrier, for others they are filling. Some people do better eating a big breakfast, others skipping breakfast and saving calories for a late night snack. I find bananas filling but apples leave me hungry. I don't find fat filling at all, I can easily over eat stuff like nuts and cheese. If someone had suggested LCHF to me before I got my calories in line and learned from my diary, I would've wasted weeks trying to figure out why I wasn't full like I'm supposed to be.
Giving specific tips is really only useful once a newbie has been logging for awhile and can start to see patterns in what is working for them and what isn't. Otherwise every one would just suggest a bunch of different things and confuse a newbie as much as the diet industry has.
LCHF does not automatically make a diet nutritious. I know several low carbers who eat lots of "junk" food. Nutrition and weight loss are two very different goals. Any way of eating can be nutritious or nutrient poor.19 -
janejellyroll wrote: »FitAndLean_5738 wrote: »People trash talking cardio. I'm a runner and I enjoy running and I don't appreciate it when people talk about running as if it's going to kill you. Now I understand that some people don't like running and that's fine -- you have to find a workout program that works for you -- but the belittlement of people who like to run, or people who like cardio in general, sometimes makes me feel like running isn't a good workout and I should go to the gym to lift. Of course I never do that because I don't like going to the gym. I'd rather run outside and do calisthenics than go to the gym and lift weights. That's what works for me.
I also dislike the whole, "if you run you're going to eat up all your muscles" idea. Or the general cardio is going to cause your muscles to waste away and you're going to be left with all this flab and turn into a stringy, fat laden, skinny noodle person.
Where have you seen people who enjoy running being belittled here? I'm just curious because I don't think I've ever seen that.
I've seen it here, but not often. It's shown up occasionally, like in threads where people are talking about doing/liking whatever cardio (not always running) but wanting to add/preserve muscle and asking for help with that. Somebody comes in and says OP has to give up the long-form cardio (maybe do HIIT instead, of all things) because cardio just burns up muscle. Then others say that's stupid bro-vice, and the OP gets pointed to the "which lifting program" thread, and is told they'll be fine as long as they fuel their total exercise load.
So, yeah: Have seen it, but it pretty much gets poo-poo-ed and dismissed quickly.
There was one thread, though, where there was a more extended kind of a battle of JPGs, showing ultra-thin distance runners who had, to put it gently, a seeming lack of interest in upper body development. I'd link it, but I can't remember what it was.
I remember that thread, some guy was really on about runners. It got shut down because of him. Our runners didn't take it sitting down.5 -
Because fruit doesn't leave people in general hungry relatively soon after eating it. I find fruit quite filling.
If it works for you, that's great -- that's my whole point about how each person is the expert on what works for them. Telling others they should avoid fruit is a whole different matter.
Ok, people keep zeroring in on the fruit thing. Let's read my post again:coderdan82 wrote: »I had people jump down my throat once when I suggested eating less fruit because it's very high in sugar and leaves you hungry relatively soon after eating it.
I suggested it because that's what works for me so it might work for them. Where, in my post, does I say it works for everyone? Maybe my wording is a bit off, should've said "I find it leaves me hungry" rather than "leaves you hungry".Some people do better with increased protein, others fat. Some need either of those combined with fiber. Some people find starches make them hungrier, for others they are filling. Some people do better eating a big breakfast, others skipping breakfast and saving calories for a late night snack. I find bananas filling but apples leave me hungry. I don't find fat filling at all, I can easily over eat stuff like nuts and cheese. If someone had suggested LCHF to me before I got my calories in line and learned from my diary, I would've wasted weeks trying to figure out why I wasn't full like I'm supposed to be.
This is exactly my point though. I used low-carb as an example because this is what I'm doing so it's where I notice the backlash but if you need something - anything - more than just calorie counting to help you stay in that calorie deficit then what's wrong with that? If it's not working then, yeah, get the heck off that diet, otherwise stick with what works.8 -
"You have to lift heavy if you don't want to look like a skinnyfat noodle person."
I'm just an n=1, but personally, my legs and butt look a million times better now that I'm just running and cycling than they ever did when I was trying a squat/deadlift type program. I have the quads and glutes I always wanted and was never able to achieve before. Strong Curves had nothing on my cycle commute. Even my abs are better now than when I followed a lifting program.
If people want to lift weights I think that's great (my husband does it exclusively and thinks cardio is evil, and he looks very fit and can certainly lift stuff I can't, even if he can't run a couple miles to save his life), but constantly crapping all over people who like cardio is kinda sucky and trying to deter people from running or whatever in favour of lifting is nonsensical to me. I like to run, I like to bike, and I get the results I want from it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Exercise is important and I think there's a place for strength training AND cardio, and the best workout routine is one you enjoy and will stick to.
These are my feelings precisely. I do lift and I'm firmly in the camp that thinks that resistance training of some form is very important. However, I also do (and enjoy gaspshockhorror) quite a lot of cardio because I happen to think my heart is my most important muscle. Why would I work my other muscles and ignore my heart? I hate to hear or see people downing others as "cardio bunnies" or whatever, as though a strong and healthy heart is somehow less important to pursue than a strong back or arms or legs.11 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »FitAndLean_5738 wrote: »People trash talking cardio. I'm a runner and I enjoy running and I don't appreciate it when people talk about running as if it's going to kill you. Now I understand that some people don't like running and that's fine -- you have to find a workout program that works for you -- but the belittlement of people who like to run, or people who like cardio in general, sometimes makes me feel like running isn't a good workout and I should go to the gym to lift. Of course I never do that because I don't like going to the gym. I'd rather run outside and do calisthenics than go to the gym and lift weights. That's what works for me.
I also dislike the whole, "if you run you're going to eat up all your muscles" idea. Or the general cardio is going to cause your muscles to waste away and you're going to be left with all this flab and turn into a stringy, fat laden, skinny noodle person.
Where have you seen people who enjoy running being belittled here? I'm just curious because I don't think I've ever seen that.
@quiksylver296 does it to me all the time.....
WTF is that?
That is Major Bedhead from Big Comfy Couch. My daughter used to love that show.3 -
I might get roasted for this, but I think micros do matter not just macros. People should eat nutrient dense foods as often as possible. Also, I think grains should not be a staple and that you should get your carbs largely from gluten free starches (potato, rice, etc) and fruits.
I don't think anyone would argue with the first point about micros and nutrient dense foods being important.
However, unless you have celiac disease or gluten sensitivity, there's no reason to avoid gluten at all.
I have celiac disease and have to avoid it. Now I love me a baked potato, but I don't know why anyone would give up a decent pasta or pizza crust voluntarily.10 -
coderdan82 wrote: »One thing that gets repeated ad nauseam, that is 100% true but kind of simplistic is "All you need to lose weight is to be in a caloric deficit". That's kind of like saying "All you need to win a hockey game is to score more goals than your opponent". Really, is that all? Well, now that I know I think I'll go get drafted by the NHL.
What about the specifics such as strategies for controlling appetite, keeping satiated, getting all the right nutrients, etc.? I can drink my daily calorie target in one sitting by just chugging on pop, but it won't give me any protein, vitamins or minerals and I'll be hungry in less than an hour. This is where things like the low-carb/keto/paleo diets come in handy for some people but people bash them because it's not just calorie counting. I had people jump down my throat once when I suggested eating less fruit because it's very high in sugar and leaves you hungry relatively soon after eating it.
Satiety is individual. What gets bashed is the idea that there's a universal satiating macro mix that works for everyone.
An apple can keep me quite satisfied. A keto diet wouldn't.
And what gets bashed is the idea that there's anything outside of satiety which helps with compliance to a calorie deficit for *some* people to be offered by following a low carb diet. They still work by calorie deficit. They won't satiate everyone who tries them. The problem is that the people who promote those diets try to sell their books/promote their websites by telling their followers that there are universal solutions for all people. This isn't the case.13 -
CurlyGirl_OnKeto wrote: »You can eat your calories burned from working out. I don't like this advice.
You may like the reddit loseit forum then.... They are hardcore into saying most folks should not eat back their calories burned from working out (one of the reasons I stopped lurking there for the most part).2
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