Low carb Vs keto
Replies
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Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
Hear hear.
Also... keto levels of carbs (20g) there are no glucose spikes (and inevitable troughs) so energy is stable. Also reduces insulin production and reverses T2D effects (hardened arteries and neuropathy etc). Also fat has roughly 9kcal per unit of energy compared with glucose's 4kcal so utilising the bodies stored fat for fuel is easy once glycogen stpres have been depleted. The brain loves ketones and you find a great mental clarity and natural high. Cannot recommend it highly enough. I have worked with diabetic patients for a long time. Reducing glucose intake is key! The NHS is finally advising T2D patients to follow a low carb way of eating. The science is the reasoning... not woo.
And all the calories in calories out brigade who will woo my post... youre not considering the hormonal implications (insulin is a hormone). Theres way more to it than that.23 -
The fat is my favorite part of keto!3
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kirstygeorge29 wrote: »Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
Hear hear.
Also... keto levels of carbs (20g) there are no glucose spikes (and inevitable troughs) so energy is stable. Also reduces insulin production and reverses T2D effects (hardened arteries and neuropathy etc). Also fat has roughly 9kcal per unit of energy compared with glucose's 4kcal so utilising the bodies stored fat for fuel is easy once glycogen stpres have been depleted. The brain loves ketones and you find a great mental clarity and natural high. Cannot recommend it highly enough. I have worked with diabetic patients for a long time. Reducing glucose intake is key! The NHS is finally advising T2D patients to follow a low carb way of eating. The science is the reasoning... not woo.
And all the calories in calories out brigade who will woo my post... youre not considering the hormonal implications (insulin is a hormone). Theres way more to it than that.
No, there are no studies showing that "carbs" (a hugely variable category) are bad for you.
I eat way more than 20 g carbs and don't get glucose spikes and have stable energy.
Insulin is not bad.
Everyone is able to use stored body fat for fuel.
No human cultures are ketogenic (the Inuit would be except they seem to have genetic adaptations to make them not ketogenic at levels others would be, which contradicts the idea that there's some benefit to being continually in ketosis).
I think keto is likely fine (if you maximize vegetables! and hard to do below 20 g carbs, IMO, although easy enough at a level in which most people are in ketosis). I also think other things, like activity, are much more important than this silly argument about macronutrients. But if you slam how others eat, I will call you on it.16 -
kirstygeorge29 wrote: »Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
Hear hear.
Also... keto levels of carbs (20g) there are no glucose spikes (and inevitable troughs) so energy is stable. Also reduces insulin production and reverses T2D effects (hardened arteries and neuropathy etc). Also fat has roughly 9kcal per unit of energy compared with glucose's 4kcal so utilising the bodies stored fat for fuel is easy once glycogen stpres have been depleted. The brain loves ketones and you find a great mental clarity and natural high. Cannot recommend it highly enough. I have worked with diabetic patients for a long time. Reducing glucose intake is key! The NHS is finally advising T2D patients to follow a low carb way of eating. The science is the reasoning... not woo.
And all the calories in calories out brigade who will woo my post... youre not considering the hormonal implications (insulin is a hormone). Theres way more to it than that.
No, there are no studies showing that "carbs" (a hugely variable category) are bad for you.
I eat way more than 20 g carbs and don't get glucose spikes and have stable energy.
Insulin is not bad.
Everyone is able to use stored body fat for fuel.
No human cultures are ketogenic (the Inuit would be except they seem to have genetic adaptations to make them not ketogenic at levels others would be, which contradicts the idea that there's some benefit to being continually in ketosis).
I think keto is likely fine (if you maximize vegetables! and hard to do below 20 g carbs, IMO, although easy enough at a level in which most people are in ketosis). I also think other things, like activity, are much more important than this silly argument about macronutrients. But if you slam how others eat, I will call you on it.
Dont think youve read the post..you just reacted, and claimed theres an 'argument and ive 'slammed' people. No slamming, just stating calories in cals out is simplistic and not helpful for many people especially some females.
And actually there are many studies... you just dont know it. The Masai and indigenous American tribes were all fat based... its how we are born.
Amd yes, excess insulin is very bad, im sure youve read the countless studies. This is universally accepted.20 -
kirstygeorge29 wrote: »Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
Hear hear.
Also... keto levels of carbs (20g) there are no glucose spikes (and inevitable troughs) so energy is stable. Also reduces insulin production and reverses T2D effects (hardened arteries and neuropathy etc). Also fat has roughly 9kcal per unit of energy compared with glucose's 4kcal so utilising the bodies stored fat for fuel is easy once glycogen stpres have been depleted. The brain loves ketones and you find a great mental clarity and natural high. Cannot recommend it highly enough. I have worked with diabetic patients for a long time. Reducing glucose intake is key! The NHS is finally advising T2D patients to follow a low carb way of eating. The science is the reasoning... not woo.
And all the calories in calories out brigade who will woo my post... youre not considering the hormonal implications (insulin is a hormone). Theres way more to it than that.
No, there are no studies showing that "carbs" (a hugely variable category) are bad for you.
I eat way more than 20 g carbs and don't get glucose spikes and have stable energy.
Insulin is not bad.
Everyone is able to use stored body fat for fuel.
No human cultures are ketogenic (the Inuit would be except they seem to have genetic adaptations to make them not ketogenic at levels others would be, which contradicts the idea that there's some benefit to being continually in ketosis).
I think keto is likely fine (if you maximize vegetables! and hard to do below 20 g carbs, IMO, although easy enough at a level in which most people are in ketosis). I also think other things, like activity, are much more important than this silly argument about macronutrients. But if you slam how others eat, I will call you on it.
Dont think youve read the post..you just reacted, and claimed theres an 'argument and ive 'slammed' people. No slamming, just stating calories in cals out is simplistic and not helpful for many people especially some females.
And actually there are many studies... you just dont know it. The Masai and indigenous American tribes were all fat based... its how we are born.
Amd yes, excess insulin is very bad, im sure youve read the countless studies. This is universally accepted.
So vegans and vegetarians and others that eat a substantially plant based diet are doing damage to their health then? Because those diets are usually fairly high carbohydrate...and there are way more studies showing those diets to be good for overall health than there are eating a *kitten* ton of fat.
Could you link some of these studies showing how bad carbohydrates are? Also, have you ever heard of blue zones...you might want to look that *kitten* up.
I am not diabetic...I have no issues with energy staying stable. I eat a heavily plant based diet...oats, lentils, legumes, root vegetables, etc are staple foods in my diet. I do eat meat, but typically only once per day. My diet looks very similar to the DASH diet.
Also, what is the "carb food industry" since you agree so much with the previous post? Big legume? Big potato? Big oatmeal?7 -
I think what would be nice is to understand what the OPs health concerns are and what is her current plan, both diet and exercise. While diet can have an effect on health, exercise does too... The combination will often provide much more of an impact as compared to diet alone.
^^^100%
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GaleHawkins wrote: »ChubbyRose84 wrote: »I'm debating whether or not to do low carb, Vs keto for my health.
I'm not sure I can do keto, but I do like some of the recipes
Just not enough veggies for me.
@ChubbyRose84 I found there is no answer to your question.
In the end I decide to go for annually improving health markers. Why not get a good baseline exam and lab work then pick your Way Of Eating and get started. If you your health markers are getting worse year after year find a new WOE. If it is working so so then try tweaking it. That has been working out for me for the past 4 years with better health markers than in decades.
There are no magical WOE's out there that works for everyone. Work to find one that works out in your case and work to learn why and do more of the same as long as it is working well for you is my thought.
^^^ 100%1 -
kirstygeorge29 wrote: »Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
Hear hear.
Also... keto levels of carbs (20g) there are no glucose spikes (and inevitable troughs) so energy is stable. Also reduces insulin production and reverses T2D effects (hardened arteries and neuropathy etc). Also fat has roughly 9kcal per unit of energy compared with glucose's 4kcal so utilising the bodies stored fat for fuel is easy once glycogen stpres have been depleted. The brain loves ketones and you find a great mental clarity and natural high. Cannot recommend it highly enough. I have worked with diabetic patients for a long time. Reducing glucose intake is key! The NHS is finally advising T2D patients to follow a low carb way of eating. The science is the reasoning... not woo.
And all the calories in calories out brigade who will woo my post... youre not considering the hormonal implications (insulin is a hormone). Theres way more to it than that.
No, there are no studies showing that "carbs" (a hugely variable category) are bad for you.
I eat way more than 20 g carbs and don't get glucose spikes and have stable energy.
Insulin is not bad.
Everyone is able to use stored body fat for fuel.
No human cultures are ketogenic (the Inuit would be except they seem to have genetic adaptations to make them not ketogenic at levels others would be, which contradicts the idea that there's some benefit to being continually in ketosis).
I think keto is likely fine (if you maximize vegetables! and hard to do below 20 g carbs, IMO, although easy enough at a level in which most people are in ketosis). I also think other things, like activity, are much more important than this silly argument about macronutrients. But if you slam how others eat, I will call you on it.
Dont think youve read the post..you just reacted, and claimed theres an 'argument and ive 'slammed' people. No slamming, just stating calories in cals out is simplistic and not helpful for many people especially some females.
And actually there are many studies... you just dont know it. The Masai and indigenous American tribes were all fat based... its how we are born.
Amd yes, excess insulin is very bad, im sure youve read the countless studies. This is universally accepted.
Insulin rising and falling due to a digested meal is perfectly normal. Micro managing insulin is only necessary for people with specific health conditions, mainly diabetes.
I'd love it if you could link to some of these studies. Many of us have been poking around recreationally in nutritional science for years, and I've never seen a pattern of peer reviewed research showing carbs are bad for you. In fact, most of the places in the world with the longest living demographics eat a moderate to high carb, mostly plant diet. It would be weird if all these people were living into their 100s while eating a diet that is naturally unhealthy for us!
In the absence of further info from the OP about what she means by "for health", I'd agree with previous advice to start lowering carbs and monitoring how easy or hard it is to eat at that carb level and keep to the correct amount of calories, and how you feel.8 -
kirstygeorge29 wrote: »Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
Hear hear.
Also... keto levels of carbs (20g) there are no glucose spikes (and inevitable troughs) so energy is stable. Also reduces insulin production and reverses T2D effects (hardened arteries and neuropathy etc). Also fat has roughly 9kcal per unit of energy compared with glucose's 4kcal so utilising the bodies stored fat for fuel is easy once glycogen stpres have been depleted. The brain loves ketones and you find a great mental clarity and natural high. Cannot recommend it highly enough. I have worked with diabetic patients for a long time. Reducing glucose intake is key! The NHS is finally advising T2D patients to follow a low carb way of eating. The science is the reasoning... not woo.
And all the calories in calories out brigade who will woo my post... youre not considering the hormonal implications (insulin is a hormone). Theres way more to it than that.
No, there are no studies showing that "carbs" (a hugely variable category) are bad for you.
I eat way more than 20 g carbs and don't get glucose spikes and have stable energy.
Insulin is not bad.
Everyone is able to use stored body fat for fuel.
No human cultures are ketogenic (the Inuit would be except they seem to have genetic adaptations to make them not ketogenic at levels others would be, which contradicts the idea that there's some benefit to being continually in ketosis).
I think keto is likely fine (if you maximize vegetables! and hard to do below 20 g carbs, IMO, although easy enough at a level in which most people are in ketosis). I also think other things, like activity, are much more important than this silly argument about macronutrients. But if you slam how others eat, I will call you on it.
Dont think youve read the post..you just reacted, and claimed theres an 'argument and ive 'slammed' people. No slamming, just stating calories in cals out is simplistic and not helpful for many people especially some females.
And actually there are many studies... you just dont know it. The Masai and indigenous American tribes were all fat based... its how we are born.
Amd yes, excess insulin is very bad, im sure youve read the countless studies. This is universally accepted.
Over production is insulin is absolutely a bad thing... But unless you have a non functioning endocrine system, its a non issue. So if the OP had diabetes and/or IR, that would be the first step i would employ. But for the rest of people, managing insulin is a bit ridiculous. I eat ultra high carb (250-350g+) and never have crashes. I do that daily while being on 5 hours of sleep with 2 very young kids (1&3). I suspect if there is crashes, its due to poor carb and/or food choices in general. Diets rich in fruits, veggies, oats and whole grains don't show the same effects since they tend to metabolize slower.
You also cant say lets talk hormones without including all of the other hormones that effect fat loss or hunger such as; acylation stimulating protein, glucose dependant insulintropic peptide, ghrelin, leptin and much more.
And while we have complex hormonal effects, it still doesn't negate calories in vs out. That has been demonstrated by hundreds of metabolic ward studies.
The bigger thing to discuss is not low carb/keto vs other diets but rather how individual and/or combinations of foods effect your personal satiety and compliance.10 -
Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
Hear hear.
Also... keto levels of carbs (20g) there are no glucose spikes (and inevitable troughs) so energy is stable. Also reduces insulin production and reverses T2D effects (hardened arteries and neuropathy etc). Also fat has roughly 9kcal per unit of energy compared with glucose's 4kcal so utilising the bodies stored fat for fuel is easy once glycogen stpres have been depleted. The brain loves ketones and you find a great mental clarity and natural high. Cannot recommend it highly enough. I have worked with diabetic patients for a long time. Reducing glucose intake is key! The NHS is finally advising T2D patients to follow a low carb way of eating. The science is the reasoning... not woo.
And all the calories in calories out brigade who will woo my post... youre not considering the hormonal implications (insulin is a hormone). Theres way more to it than that.
To the bolded: In what capacity?4 -
kirstygeorge29 wrote: »Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
Hear hear.
Also... keto levels of carbs (20g) there are no glucose spikes (and inevitable troughs) so energy is stable. Also reduces insulin production and reverses T2D effects (hardened arteries and neuropathy etc). Also fat has roughly 9kcal per unit of energy compared with glucose's 4kcal so utilising the bodies stored fat for fuel is easy once glycogen stpres have been depleted. The brain loves ketones and you find a great mental clarity and natural high. Cannot recommend it highly enough. I have worked with diabetic patients for a long time. Reducing glucose intake is key! The NHS is finally advising T2D patients to follow a low carb way of eating. The science is the reasoning... not woo.
And all the calories in calories out brigade who will woo my post... youre not considering the hormonal implications (insulin is a hormone). Theres way more to it than that.
No, there are no studies showing that "carbs" (a hugely variable category) are bad for you.
I eat way more than 20 g carbs and don't get glucose spikes and have stable energy.
Insulin is not bad.
Everyone is able to use stored body fat for fuel.
No human cultures are ketogenic (the Inuit would be except they seem to have genetic adaptations to make them not ketogenic at levels others would be, which contradicts the idea that there's some benefit to being continually in ketosis).
I think keto is likely fine (if you maximize vegetables! and hard to do below 20 g carbs, IMO, although easy enough at a level in which most people are in ketosis). I also think other things, like activity, are much more important than this silly argument about macronutrients. But if you slam how others eat, I will call you on it.
Dont think youve read the post..
I read the post and, importantly, the one you cheered.
The prior poster, who you claimed to agree with, said "carbs are bad." I'm sorry, I don't believe that fruit and veg are unhealthful, or that the way people eat in the blue zones is. Claiming "carbs are bad" is evidence that one is not educated about nutrition (and I am someone who thinks low carb diets can be healthful).And actually there are many studies... you just dont know it. The Masai and indigenous American tribes were all fat based... its how we are born.
(1) No, it's not how we are born. Human milk has plenty of carbs.
(2) As I noted re the Inuit (who have about the most ketogenic diet possible, much more so than Native American in general), they are not in ketosis on that diet. It seems biological forces suggest keto isn't ideal long-term.Amd yes, excess insulin is very bad, im sure youve read the countless studies. This is universally accepted.
Excess, sure. A healthy person won't have excess insulin. Nor is it an issue if one eats a healthy diet (which can include plenty of carbs). People in the blue zones aren't afflicted with T2D.10 -
As I understand it, human babies are born in a state of ketosis and tend to remain that way for a few days until a mother's milk really comes in.2
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cwolfman13 wrote: »ChubbyRose84 wrote: »I'm debating whether or not to do low carb, Vs keto for my health.
I'm not sure I can do keto, but I do like some of the recipes
Just not enough veggies for me.
I can and have done lower carb...but I could never do keto. While I do eat meat, my diet is heavily plant based and things like beans, lentils, oats, potatoes and other tubers, veggies, and fruit are staples in my diet.
I can eat veggies daily but I must admit I do miss the potatoes, tubers and fruit. The bread not as much as I thought I would.
My biggest complaint about keto, which i did cycle with, was the lack of veggies and fruits. Both of which have been demonstrated to be extremely supportive for overall health markers.
There is also substantial more evidence in favor of more plant based diets over meat based.
Still there are many variables to consider, like if the OP has specific health concerns.
In favour for what reason?
There is no evidence that I know of that a plant based diet (which I interpret to be a diet with mostly foods and calories from plants such as vegetables, fruits, grains, refined grains, vegetable oils and sugars) is better for health than a meat based diet (where most foods and calories are coming from meat, eggs, seafood, dairy and their associated fats).
I may be wrong. I'll look at anything that says otherwise.2 -
Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
Hear hear.
Also... keto levels of carbs (20g) there are no glucose spikes (and inevitable troughs) so energy is stable. Also reduces insulin production and reverses T2D effects (hardened arteries and neuropathy etc). Also fat has roughly 9kcal per unit of energy compared with glucose's 4kcal so utilising the bodies stored fat for fuel is easy once glycogen stpres have been depleted. The brain loves ketones and you find a great mental clarity and natural high. Cannot recommend it highly enough. I have worked with diabetic patients for a long time. Reducing glucose intake is key! The NHS is finally advising T2D patients to follow a low carb way of eating. The science is the reasoning... not woo.
And all the calories in calories out brigade who will woo my post... youre not considering the hormonal implications (insulin is a hormone). Theres way more to it than that.
I am T2Dm and my A1c has remained stable for 4 years now. I eat moderate carbs (150 grams max per day when on reduced calories or 180 grams when in maintenance) and I do not experience spikes and crashes. I cannot eat keto because I cannot eat that much fat (no gallbladder). My macros are balanced (35% carb, 35% protein, and 30% fat). Oh, I also lost over 100 lb.
Keto is great for people who can do it and be satisfied with it. Reducing carbs is necessary for people with diabetes. How far to reduce carbs depends on the individual and how advanced the disease is, and can range anywhere from keto level to moderate carbs. Everyone else should eat in a way that properly fuels their life and body.6 -
Dont think youve read the post..you just reacted, and claimed theres an 'argument and ive 'slammed' people. No slamming, just stating calories in cals out is simplistic and not helpful for many people especially some females.
And actually there are many studies... you just dont know it. The Masai and indigenous American tribes were all fat based... its how we are born.
Amd yes, excess insulin is very bad, im sure youve read the countless studies. This is universally accepted.
I find it interesting/amusing that the anti-carb forces treat carbs as if they are this new found thing, as if we started eating them in the 20th century or something when "big-carb" came along. Humans have been eating carbs throughout human history. even taking away the whole "gatherer" part of hunter-gatherer, historians believe that humans have been making bread for at least 30,000 years. The "paleo" men actually ate bread as part of their diet. It's how we were actually born.9 -
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Low carb first. Keto is very restrictive with how many carbs you can have while low carb you're still able to eat a good bit so shouldn't feel too deprived at first. If you're feeling like a super low carb day, then have one. If you're having a "I need more" then low carb it up. Do what works for you
And to answer a previous post... yes.. most people are too addicted to their carbs/sugar to give them up. It doesn't help that the powers that be are still trying to tell us that saturated fats are the devil. Watch some documentaries on it. There are a few good ones out there that explain it all and why the standard american diet is the way it is.... hint :$$$$$$$13 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »ChubbyRose84 wrote: »I'm debating whether or not to do low carb, Vs keto for my health.
I'm not sure I can do keto, but I do like some of the recipes
Just not enough veggies for me.
I can and have done lower carb...but I could never do keto. While I do eat meat, my diet is heavily plant based and things like beans, lentils, oats, potatoes and other tubers, veggies, and fruit are staples in my diet.
That's how I feel. I tried keto for a while and missed fruit and felt like I was too dependent on meat for protein (and also I was always hitting about 35 net carbs with my carbs mostly from veg plus some nuts). I like eating lower carb, however.
Out of curiosity some time ago I calculated what I would need on keto with my weight loss calorie target... @ 70F/20P/10C my fat intake would be around 195 grams @ 2500 calories per day. Even at a lower target of 2,000 calories per day, it would have been around 155.5 grams...I personally can't imagine eating that much dietary fat.
I'm also just not convinced that there aren't health repercussions down the road with keto...I'm not aware of any long term studies on keto and human health...I am aware of many long term studies on eating a diet rich in plants.
One group on ketogenic diets longer term has been studied -- that's children who are on it for epilepsy control. My understanding is that the results aren't that encouraging for health outcomes (but the children are better off having their epilepsy controlled). Of course, it's a legitimate question if the results from children can be extrapolated to adults. Some of the issues that the children face may be unique to doing this type of eating while growing (loss of bone density). Others, like increased blood lipids and high cholesterol may be more concerning for everyone. Other issues seem to be well-controlled with supplementation of the nutrients that may be harder to get on a ketogenic diet.7 -
kirstygeorge29 wrote: »Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
Hear hear.
Also... keto levels of carbs (20g) there are no glucose spikes (and inevitable troughs) so energy is stable. Also reduces insulin production and reverses T2D effects (hardened arteries and neuropathy etc). Also fat has roughly 9kcal per unit of energy compared with glucose's 4kcal so utilising the bodies stored fat for fuel is easy once glycogen stpres have been depleted. The brain loves ketones and you find a great mental clarity and natural high. Cannot recommend it highly enough. I have worked with diabetic patients for a long time. Reducing glucose intake is key! The NHS is finally advising T2D patients to follow a low carb way of eating. The science is the reasoning... not woo.
And all the calories in calories out brigade who will woo my post... youre not considering the hormonal implications (insulin is a hormone). Theres way more to it than that.
No, there are no studies showing that "carbs" (a hugely variable category) are bad for you.
I eat way more than 20 g carbs and don't get glucose spikes and have stable energy.
Insulin is not bad.
Everyone is able to use stored body fat for fuel.
No human cultures are ketogenic (the Inuit would be except they seem to have genetic adaptations to make them not ketogenic at levels others would be, which contradicts the idea that there's some benefit to being continually in ketosis).
I think keto is likely fine (if you maximize vegetables! and hard to do below 20 g carbs, IMO, although easy enough at a level in which most people are in ketosis). I also think other things, like activity, are much more important than this silly argument about macronutrients. But if you slam how others eat, I will call you on it.
Dont think youve read the post..you just reacted, and claimed theres an 'argument and ive 'slammed' people. No slamming, just stating calories in cals out is simplistic and not helpful for many people especially some females.
And actually there are many studies... you just dont know it. The Masai and indigenous American tribes were all fat based... its how we are born.
Amd yes, excess insulin is very bad, im sure youve read the countless studies. This is universally accepted.
What studies, specifically, do we not know about?0 -
What's bad is being overweight, and all the health issues that come with it. I would rather pick a diet that helps me lose weight with less stress than to stress about the minutia of a particular diet...5
-
janejellyroll wrote: »kirstygeorge29 wrote: »Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
Hear hear.
Also... keto levels of carbs (20g) there are no glucose spikes (and inevitable troughs) so energy is stable. Also reduces insulin production and reverses T2D effects (hardened arteries and neuropathy etc). Also fat has roughly 9kcal per unit of energy compared with glucose's 4kcal so utilising the bodies stored fat for fuel is easy once glycogen stpres have been depleted. The brain loves ketones and you find a great mental clarity and natural high. Cannot recommend it highly enough. I have worked with diabetic patients for a long time. Reducing glucose intake is key! The NHS is finally advising T2D patients to follow a low carb way of eating. The science is the reasoning... not woo.
And all the calories in calories out brigade who will woo my post... youre not considering the hormonal implications (insulin is a hormone). Theres way more to it than that.
No, there are no studies showing that "carbs" (a hugely variable category) are bad for you.
I eat way more than 20 g carbs and don't get glucose spikes and have stable energy.
Insulin is not bad.
Everyone is able to use stored body fat for fuel.
No human cultures are ketogenic (the Inuit would be except they seem to have genetic adaptations to make them not ketogenic at levels others would be, which contradicts the idea that there's some benefit to being continually in ketosis).
I think keto is likely fine (if you maximize vegetables! and hard to do below 20 g carbs, IMO, although easy enough at a level in which most people are in ketosis). I also think other things, like activity, are much more important than this silly argument about macronutrients. But if you slam how others eat, I will call you on it.
Dont think youve read the post..you just reacted, and claimed theres an 'argument and ive 'slammed' people. No slamming, just stating calories in cals out is simplistic and not helpful for many people especially some females.
And actually there are many studies... you just dont know it. The Masai and indigenous American tribes were all fat based... its how we are born.
Amd yes, excess insulin is very bad, im sure youve read the countless studies. This is universally accepted.
What studies, specifically, do we not know about?
You wouldn't know them. They go to school in Canada. But they're totally real.6 -
I guess I am too "addicted" to fruit and vegetables to want to give up fruit or limit vegetables (when I tried keto I was always struggling with going over my much higher than the normal keto limit of 60 g total or 35 g net carbs, and that was from vegetables, nuts, and a little greek yogurt or cottage cheese -- I do not believe that any of those are foods that I should have to worry about, and indeed I think my preference for eating lots of vegetables is healthy for me). That I missed fruit I also don't see as a bad thing, nor is the fact that I missed being able to rely on vegetable-based source of protein like beans and lentils, which IMO are very healthy. Not to mention that this idea that there's no money/power in animal ag, but that the vegans have all the power, is not a very reality-based one, IMO.
I think keto can be a great choice for some people, and I like a somewhat lower carb diet myself, but I don't understand why some people seem to think they can't just say "I like low carb for these reasons" or "I prefer keto" but must instead attack the dietary choices of people who eat higher carb diets or make inaccurate claims about eating carbs being unhealthy (despite the blue zones).
TLDR: It's really too bad that this thread is turning into "attack people who eat carbs" and "claim that eating carbs is somehow inherently unhealthy." IMO, OP was given lots of good, unbiased advise that respected her question and concerns before that occurred.9 -
I guess I am too "addicted" to fruit and vegetables to want to give up fruit or limit vegetables (when I tried keto I was always struggling with going over my much higher than the normal keto limit of 60 g total or 35 g net carbs, and that was from vegetables, nuts, and a little greek yogurt or cottage cheese -- I do not believe that any of those are foods that I should have to worry about, and indeed I think my preference for eating lots of vegetables is healthy for me). That I missed fruit I also don't see as a bad thing, nor is the fact that I missed being able to rely on vegetable-based source of protein like beans and lentils, which IMO are very healthy. Not to mention that this idea that there's no money/power in animal ag, but that the vegans have all the power, is not a very reality-based one, IMO.
I think keto can be a great choice for some people, and I like a somewhat lower carb diet myself, but I don't understand why some people seem to think they can't just say "I like low carb for these reasons" or "I prefer keto" but must instead attack the dietary choices of people who eat higher carb diets or make inaccurate claims about eating carbs being unhealthy (despite the blue zones).
TLDR: It's really too bad that this thread is turning into "attack people who eat carbs" and "claim that eating carbs is somehow inherently unhealthy." IMO, OP was given lots of good, unbiased advise that respected her question and concerns before that occurred.
This is what happens when you deal with zealots...3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »kirstygeorge29 wrote: »Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
Hear hear.
Also... keto levels of carbs (20g) there are no glucose spikes (and inevitable troughs) so energy is stable. Also reduces insulin production and reverses T2D effects (hardened arteries and neuropathy etc). Also fat has roughly 9kcal per unit of energy compared with glucose's 4kcal so utilising the bodies stored fat for fuel is easy once glycogen stpres have been depleted. The brain loves ketones and you find a great mental clarity and natural high. Cannot recommend it highly enough. I have worked with diabetic patients for a long time. Reducing glucose intake is key! The NHS is finally advising T2D patients to follow a low carb way of eating. The science is the reasoning... not woo.
And all the calories in calories out brigade who will woo my post... youre not considering the hormonal implications (insulin is a hormone). Theres way more to it than that.
No, there are no studies showing that "carbs" (a hugely variable category) are bad for you.
I eat way more than 20 g carbs and don't get glucose spikes and have stable energy.
Insulin is not bad.
Everyone is able to use stored body fat for fuel.
No human cultures are ketogenic (the Inuit would be except they seem to have genetic adaptations to make them not ketogenic at levels others would be, which contradicts the idea that there's some benefit to being continually in ketosis).
I think keto is likely fine (if you maximize vegetables! and hard to do below 20 g carbs, IMO, although easy enough at a level in which most people are in ketosis). I also think other things, like activity, are much more important than this silly argument about macronutrients. But if you slam how others eat, I will call you on it.
Dont think youve read the post..you just reacted, and claimed theres an 'argument and ive 'slammed' people. No slamming, just stating calories in cals out is simplistic and not helpful for many people especially some females.
And actually there are many studies... you just dont know it. The Masai and indigenous American tribes were all fat based... its how we are born.
Amd yes, excess insulin is very bad, im sure youve read the countless studies. This is universally accepted.
What studies, specifically, do we not know about?
You wouldn't know them. They go to school in Canada. But they're totally real.
Are you telling us that only students in Canada are able to see this information?
1 -
ChubbyRose84 wrote: »I'm debating whether or not to do low carb, Vs keto for my health.
I'm not sure I can do keto, but I do like some of the recipes
Just not enough veggies for me.
I'm not keto - I'd miss my fruits and veggies - but do like some of the recipes too. I'm in a keto group on FB just for the recipes
Made PB chocolate mini cups last night. Subbed 2 t of sugar for the Splenda cuz I detest artificial sweeteners. (Still only 3 g sugar per serving.) Used 30 grams of Ghirardelli bittersweet chips instead of the Lindt. Added more PB instead of the butter. I was able to limit myself to two last night, hooray!
http://screwedonstraight.net/keto-diet-peanut-butter-cup-fat-bombs/
2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »kirstygeorge29 wrote: »Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
Hear hear.
Also... keto levels of carbs (20g) there are no glucose spikes (and inevitable troughs) so energy is stable. Also reduces insulin production and reverses T2D effects (hardened arteries and neuropathy etc). Also fat has roughly 9kcal per unit of energy compared with glucose's 4kcal so utilising the bodies stored fat for fuel is easy once glycogen stpres have been depleted. The brain loves ketones and you find a great mental clarity and natural high. Cannot recommend it highly enough. I have worked with diabetic patients for a long time. Reducing glucose intake is key! The NHS is finally advising T2D patients to follow a low carb way of eating. The science is the reasoning... not woo.
And all the calories in calories out brigade who will woo my post... youre not considering the hormonal implications (insulin is a hormone). Theres way more to it than that.
No, there are no studies showing that "carbs" (a hugely variable category) are bad for you.
I eat way more than 20 g carbs and don't get glucose spikes and have stable energy.
Insulin is not bad.
Everyone is able to use stored body fat for fuel.
No human cultures are ketogenic (the Inuit would be except they seem to have genetic adaptations to make them not ketogenic at levels others would be, which contradicts the idea that there's some benefit to being continually in ketosis).
I think keto is likely fine (if you maximize vegetables! and hard to do below 20 g carbs, IMO, although easy enough at a level in which most people are in ketosis). I also think other things, like activity, are much more important than this silly argument about macronutrients. But if you slam how others eat, I will call you on it.
Dont think youve read the post..you just reacted, and claimed theres an 'argument and ive 'slammed' people. No slamming, just stating calories in cals out is simplistic and not helpful for many people especially some females.
And actually there are many studies... you just dont know it. The Masai and indigenous American tribes were all fat based... its how we are born.
Amd yes, excess insulin is very bad, im sure youve read the countless studies. This is universally accepted.
What studies, specifically, do we not know about?
You wouldn't know them. They go to school in Canada. But they're totally real.
Are you telling us that only students in Canada are able to see this information?
Were you unaware that there's a Canadian Student internet edition? It's a little cheaper than the regular internet version, because educational institutions have gathered together to reduce the price, and thanks to bargaining power, they get all the good scientific information.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »ChubbyRose84 wrote: »I'm debating whether or not to do low carb, Vs keto for my health.
I'm not sure I can do keto, but I do like some of the recipes
Just not enough veggies for me.
I can and have done lower carb...but I could never do keto. While I do eat meat, my diet is heavily plant based and things like beans, lentils, oats, potatoes and other tubers, veggies, and fruit are staples in my diet.
That's how I feel. I tried keto for a while and missed fruit and felt like I was too dependent on meat for protein (and also I was always hitting about 35 net carbs with my carbs mostly from veg plus some nuts). I like eating lower carb, however.
Out of curiosity some time ago I calculated what I would need on keto with my weight loss calorie target... @ 70F/20P/10C my fat intake would be around 195 grams @ 2500 calories per day. Even at a lower target of 2,000 calories per day, it would have been around 155.5 grams...I personally can't imagine eating that much dietary fat.
I'm also just not convinced that there aren't health repercussions down the road with keto...I'm not aware of any long term studies on keto and human health...I am aware of many long term studies on eating a diet rich in plants.
One group on ketogenic diets longer term has been studied -- that's children who are on it for epilepsy control. My understanding is that the results aren't that encouraging for health outcomes (but the children are better off having their epilepsy controlled). Of course, it's a legitimate question if the results from children can be extrapolated to adults. Some of the issues that the children face may be unique to doing this type of eating while growing (loss of bone density). Others, like increased blood lipids and high cholesterol may be more concerning for everyone. Other issues seem to be well-controlled with supplementation of the nutrients that may be harder to get on a ketogenic diet.
Epileptic children were calorie and protein restricted too. They did not eat a typical ketogenic diet.
The longest studies that I have seen on keto are 1-2 years. Case studies can be much longer.
Ketogenic diets do not typically worsen lipid profiles. HDL usually rises, triglycerides fall, LDL particle size becomes more favourable although in some people LDL may go up or down, and crp tends to fall.0 -
I am missing where the thread turned into "attack people who eat carbs" and "claim that eating carbs is somehow inherently unhealthy." I remember one post where they said something like carbs are unhealthy. One. But that could have been clarified with just a few more words or sentences, like refined and highly processed carbs are unhealthy, which is true for the most part.
On the other hand, the low carb proponents have been called anti-carbers and zealots so far. Shrug0 -
Dont think youve read the post..you just reacted, and claimed theres an 'argument and ive 'slammed' people. No slamming, just stating calories in cals out is simplistic and not helpful for many people especially some females.
And actually there are many studies... you just dont know it. The Masai and indigenous American tribes were all fat based... its how we are born.
Amd yes, excess insulin is very bad, im sure youve read the countless studies. This is universally accepted.
I find it interesting/amusing that the anti-carb forces treat carbs as if they are this new found thing, as if we started eating them in the 20th century or something when "big-carb" came along. Humans have been eating carbs throughout human history. even taking away the whole "gatherer" part of hunter-gatherer, historians believe that humans have been making bread for at least 30,000 years. The "paleo" men actually ate bread as part of their diet. It's how we were actually born.
We are born eating grains? No, we are born in a ketogenic state and stay that way for a few days.
I'm not arguing that humans ate grains throughout history. We eat a lot of things. Doesn't mean it is ideal.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »kirstygeorge29 wrote: »Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
Hear hear.
Also... keto levels of carbs (20g) there are no glucose spikes (and inevitable troughs) so energy is stable. Also reduces insulin production and reverses T2D effects (hardened arteries and neuropathy etc). Also fat has roughly 9kcal per unit of energy compared with glucose's 4kcal so utilising the bodies stored fat for fuel is easy once glycogen stpres have been depleted. The brain loves ketones and you find a great mental clarity and natural high. Cannot recommend it highly enough. I have worked with diabetic patients for a long time. Reducing glucose intake is key! The NHS is finally advising T2D patients to follow a low carb way of eating. The science is the reasoning... not woo.
And all the calories in calories out brigade who will woo my post... youre not considering the hormonal implications (insulin is a hormone). Theres way more to it than that.
No, there are no studies showing that "carbs" (a hugely variable category) are bad for you.
I eat way more than 20 g carbs and don't get glucose spikes and have stable energy.
Insulin is not bad.
Everyone is able to use stored body fat for fuel.
No human cultures are ketogenic (the Inuit would be except they seem to have genetic adaptations to make them not ketogenic at levels others would be, which contradicts the idea that there's some benefit to being continually in ketosis).
I think keto is likely fine (if you maximize vegetables! and hard to do below 20 g carbs, IMO, although easy enough at a level in which most people are in ketosis). I also think other things, like activity, are much more important than this silly argument about macronutrients. But if you slam how others eat, I will call you on it.
Dont think youve read the post..you just reacted, and claimed theres an 'argument and ive 'slammed' people. No slamming, just stating calories in cals out is simplistic and not helpful for many people especially some females.
And actually there are many studies... you just dont know it. The Masai and indigenous American tribes were all fat based... its how we are born.
Amd yes, excess insulin is very bad, im sure youve read the countless studies. This is universally accepted.
What studies, specifically, do we not know about?
You wouldn't know them. They go to school in Canada. But they're totally real.
Are you telling us that only students in Canada are able to see this information?
It was a joke. It's like the kid in school telling his friends that he "definitely" has a girlfriend, but they just don't know or see her because she lives in Canada. 2
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