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Debating going Keto
Replies
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CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
for you it may have done that, for me it caused me inflammation(I have RA), I was lethargic and my mind was awful .my short term memory went to hell and I never had an issue before and dont now. I was on it 2 months and it wasnt keto flu because I did research and made sure to prevent the keto flu before I started. my health was literally going down the drain and I was very close to having hubby take me to the ER because I felt like my body was shutting down. he told me I needed to stop keto and see what happens, I did and things improved again and went back to normal(well what is normal for me) I lost no more weight on keto than any other way of eating.
weight loss in and of itself can cause an improvement in health issues as well. I also eat processed foods and they do not cause me any inflammation at all ,not even my RA
I did keto for six weeks, have a condition similar to RA (psoriatic arthritis), also researched keto flu and took steps to prevent it, and I had the same experience.
Additionally, I wasn't doing keto to lose weight, I was hoping to have some relief from migraines, which even with a very good medication protocol, are chronic and often debilitating. My migraines got worse during my keto trial.
OP, a lot of people who have good results doing keto have those results because eating that way is enjoyable for them and they find the food filling and since it's filling, it makes eating at a calorie deficit easy for them to do.
There is no other way to lose weight than to eat at a calorie deficit. I personally found it a little difficult to feel full eating keto because I need starch and volume to feel full, and those were lacking on keto, but I was in pain and desperate! Satiation is a factor of dieting that's highly variable from one individual to the next.
Here's the best diet plan out there. No gimmicks, you can customize it to suit you, and it really works!
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10636388/free-customized-personal-weight-loss-eating-plan-not-spam-or-mlm/p1
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Scotty2HotPie wrote: »LOL @ the Keto haters... there sure are lot's of them. Keto has extremely good benefits for some, no so much for others. If you're sensitive processed carbs, like me, then Keto may work. However, I don't eliminate all carbs. I still eat sweet potatoes, sometimes bananas for breakfast... but in general I don't eat a lot of carbs. Nor do I shun them.
For me, any meal plan that eliminates sugar and processed food (especially wheat) is going to be a 1,000x better than what typical people eat everyday.
Also, if you are monitoring your calories and sticking to a daily budget, you'll soon learn to regret eating food high in processed carbs, because they are packed with calories and you'll still be starving afterwards.
It's crazy how many people treat their chosen "Diet Plan" like a religion and immediately go into attack mode if they feel it's being questioned.
Relax people, eat good food, get some exercise and enjoy the life benefits.
The opposite of keto isn't "processed carbs". It's a balanced diet. Keto's a certain macro balance. There are other macro balances.
You can eat processed foods on keto and have a less than stellar diet with its macro mix just as you can on any other.
Equating purity of food quality with a macro mix is a silly argument that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.26 -
I weigh 237 as of this morning, I have been on Keto since Sunday. I feel better.
Background: I did Whole 30 and loved it, lost about 17 pounds and kept it off for a year. Whole 30 is wonderful, and healthy, but it is extremely challenging to do unless you are diligent enough to prepare your meals. The only restaurant I could quickly get a Whole 30 meal, driving through was El Pollo Loco (Chicken and double broccoli side).
I never really looked at Keto, because it sounded so unhealthy.
But I had some friends who were doing it so I started investigating it. You should look at Dr. Bergs Plan, it is an entire play list. It makes sense. I know many people, including Jillian Michaels yesterday have come out against it. I feel good, I am dropping weight and my blood sugar, which is always 140-170 has been down around 110.
I don't want to say the food is easy. It is hard to wrap your head around the eating Fat thing because we have been so taught by the sugar industry that Fat is the bad guy. If you look at my Food diary, friend me and you will be able to see it. Preparing the food is much easier than anything else I have done. I cook, and tend not to eat out a lot. I eat as much as I want, I never come close to any calorie goal.
I am going to reevaluate in a month. BTW, My plan is not do to this for life, but to greatly cut my carbs for life, and eat more vegetables when I reach goal weight. Good luck.12 -
You might be interested in the discussion on this current thread:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10701339/keto-diet-good-or-bad/p13 -
I weigh 237 as of this morning, I have been on Keto since Sunday.
Background: I did Whole 30 and loved it, lost about 17 pounds and kept it off for a year. Whole 30 is wonderful, and healthy, but it is extremely challenging to do unless you are diligent enough to prepare your meals. The only restaurant I could quickly get a Whole 30 meal, driving through was El Pollo Loco (Chicken and double broccoli side).
I never really looked at Keto, because it sounded so unhealthy.
But I had some friends who were doing it so I started investigating it. You should look at Dr. Bergs Plan, it is an entire play list. It makes sense. I know many people, including Jillian Michaels yesterday have come out against it. I feel good, I am dropping weight and my blood sugar, which is always 140-170 has been down around 110.
I don't want to say the food is easy. It is hard to wrap your head around the eating Fat thing because we have been so taught by the sugar industry that Fat is the bad guy. If you look at my Food diary, friend me and you will be able to see it.
I am going to reevaluate in a month. BTW, My plan is not do to this for life, but to greatly cut my carbs for life, and eat more vegetables when I reacheach goal weight. Good luck.
Dr. Berg promised me I could lose a clothing size in a week. He also promised me 10 pounds in a week. Does that really sound like it makes sense to you??
Even a lot of what he says that sounds more sciency is just that, sciency rather than actual science.11 -
I weigh 237 as of this morning, I have been on Keto since Sunday. I feel better.
Background: I did Whole 30 and loved it, lost about 17 pounds and kept it off for a year. Whole 30 is wonderful, and healthy, but it is extremely challenging to do unless you are diligent enough to prepare your meals. The only restaurant I could quickly get a Whole 30 meal, driving through was El Pollo Loco (Chicken and double broccoli side).
I never really looked at Keto, because it sounded so unhealthy.
But I had some friends who were doing it so I started investigating it. You should look at Dr. Bergs Plan, it is an entire play list. It makes sense. I know many people, including Jillian Michaels yesterday have come out against it. I feel good, I am dropping weight and my blood sugar, which is always 140-170 has been down around 110.
I don't want to say the food is easy. It is hard to wrap your head around the eating Fat thing because we have been so taught by the sugar industry that Fat is the bad guy. If you look at my Food diary, friend me and you will be able to see it. Preparing the food is much easier than anything else I have done. I cook, and tend not to eat out a lot. I eat as much as I want, I never come close to any calorie goal.
I am going to reevaluate in a month. BTW, My plan is not do to this for life, but to greatly cut my carbs for life, and eat more vegetables when I reach goal weight. Good luck.
I don't think fat is "the bad guy"...it's a very essential nutrient...but I also have my doubts about eating copious amounts of it being healthy long term. I've looked at calculators before and for my calorie targets I would be consuming well over 200 grams of fat daily...that doesn't sound particularly healthy to me and at minimum the thought of it is just kinda disgusting.
Your blood pressure going down is likely attributable to you losing weight...all health markers typically get better with weight loss.9 -
@CJDaniel7
Remember "Dr" Berg is a Chiropractor not a Dietician. Personally I wouldn't go to a Dietician to have my spine cracked.
A leopard may change his spots but Berg resorted to very shady practices in the past - see link regarding the disciplinary action against him by his own Board. Make up your own mind if he is a reliable source or not.....
https://www.casewatch.net/board/chiro/berg.shtml
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You should look at Dr. Bergs Plan, it is an entire play list.
It's confusing. His website says that we should eliminate all sugars, but also eat raspberries and blackberries. I wouldn't take nutritional advice from someone who either doesn't understand what sugar is or doesn't understand that berries have it.
He also recommends eating nutritional yeast due the fact that it will meet all your needs for B vitamins, but recommends buying *unfortified* nutritional yeast. However, it's the fortification that makes nutritional yeast a good source of vitamins B2 and B12. Again, I would be very reluctant to take nutritional advice from someone who either doesn't care about this level of detail or doesn't comprehend it.
Source: https://www.drberg.com/blog-article/ketogenic-diet-plan17 -
@CJDaniel7
Remember "Dr" Berg is a Chiropractor not a Dietician. Personally I wouldn't go to a Dietician to have my spine cracked.
A leopard may change his spots but Berg resorted to very shady practices in the past - see link regarding the disciplinary action against him by his own Board. Make up your own mind if he is a reliable source or not.....
https://www.casewatch.net/board/chiro/berg.shtml
I always get such a sketchy feeling about non-medical doctors using their titles in a seeming attempt to boost their weight loss/nutritional credibility.12 -
All diets work or don't work based on 1 singular factor - Do they (you) create and maintain a calorie deficit. Period. End of debate.
If a diet helps you create a calorie deficit, then it will work. If it doesn't, then it won't.
If a diet helps you maintain a calorie deficit, and is sustainable over a relatively long period of time, then it's worth doing. If it doesn't/isn't, then it's not.
100%3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
I always get such a sketchy feeling about non-medical doctors using their titles in a seeming attempt to boost their weight loss/nutritional credibility.
Even "Real" doctors, like GP Family doctors.
Most doctors get very limited education on Nutrition and are often instructed to follow USDA guidelines. They can get into serious trouble when they don't toe the guidelines.
Which is unfortunate, since nutrition probably has biggest single impact on our health that we have control over. And there isn't a perfect diet that fits every person. We're all too different.3 -
Scotty2HotPie wrote: »Which is unfortunate, since nutrition probably has biggest single impact on our health that we have control over. And there isn't a perfect diet that fits every person. We're all too different.
Wrong. You will all be assimilated into keto. Resistance is futile.
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Scotty2HotPie wrote: »
Even "Real" doctors, like GP Family doctors.
Most doctors get very limited education on Nutrition and are often instructed to follow USDA guidelines. They can get into serious trouble when they don't toe the guidelines.
Which is unfortunate, since nutrition probably has biggest single impact on our health that we have control over. And there isn't a perfect diet that fits every person. We're all too different.
What is an example of a doctor who has gotten into serious trouble for failing to follow USDA guidelines?8 -
When reading these posts. Most people in this country don't like things they are not informed about. Social Media is filled with people ranting about issues they do not investigate (but know little about). Don't listen to these people, do a thorough investigation, and google people's concerns that they present here, to make an informed judgement yourself.11
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When reading these posts. Most people in this country don't like things they are not informed about. Social Media is filled with people ranting about issues they do not investigate (but know little about). Don't listen to these people, do a thorough investigation, and google people's concerns that they present here, to make an informed judgement yourself.
Counterpoint: Many of the people here critiquing the keto bandwagon (defined as the fervent belief that keto is the "solution" to everyone's weight and health issues) have taken the time to research and understand human nutrition and have drawn the conclusion that keto may be a great fit for some people, but that many claims for it are not based in evidence and are overblown.22 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
Counterpoint: Many of the people here critiquing the keto bandwagon (defined as the fervent belief that keto is the "solution" to everyone's weight and health issues) have taken the time to research and understand human nutrition and have drawn the conclusion that keto may be a great fit for some people, but that many claims for it are not based in evidence and are overblown.
This. People aren't "bashing keto". A lot of people (myself included) have actually done Keto (and fracking hated it), and just shared our personal experience with it. Which is what she was asking for in the first place.
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That's so interesting! I have RA and have had significant improvement with my RA. It's amazing how different bodies are.
yep mine is at a minimum right now and I dont need meds yet(its been more than 10 years since diagnosed). but when I was doing keto I was in a LOT of pain. not so now as I no longer do keto5 -
I’ve just read lots of people having success over it. That’s the only reason I would consider it. I don’t have any medical issues or reasons to try it really.
Just to start off, I am not dieting KETO, though I do think it is great for people who really find protein very filling.
But, I often wonder if there is more to KETO than just the calorie deficit. A while ago (it may have been 9 months ago or so) someone posted a scientific medical journal article (not a woo article) which discussed the way in which the body digested food. I wish I could remember all the details, but the big take away was that people digest different macros to a different degree.
People digest a higher percentage of carbohydrates, I don't remember the number, but just for discussion, let's say 80% of carbohydrates are digested, the rest passes through a person's system and is evacuated undigested. The article stated fat is digested at the next highest rate, let's say 70%. So 70% of fat is digested and 30% is evacuated without being digested. Protein is the hardest to digest, let's say 60% is digested, and 40% is evacuated without being digested.
Does anyone have that article? And if that is the case, could we not say you could eat more protein calories than you can carbohydrates calories and get the same deficit?
Thoughts?0 -
A new study reported in the Guardian yesterday says fiber is the key to longevity...and it is hard to get fiber without carbs.6
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Just to start off, I am not dieting KETO, though I do think it is great for people who really find protein very filling.
But, I often wonder if there is more to KETO than just the calorie deficit. A while ago (it may have been 9 months ago or so) someone posted a scientific medical journal article (not a woo article) which discussed the way in which the body digested food. I wish I could remember all the details, but the big take away was that people digest different macros to a different degree.
People digest a higher percentage of carbohydrates, I don't remember the number, but just for discussion, let's say 80% of carbohydrates are digested, the rest passes through a person's system and is evacuated undigested. The article stated fat is digested at the next highest rate, let's say 70%. So 70% of fat is digested and 30% is evacuated without being digested. Protein is the hardest to digest, let's say 60% is digested, and 40% is evacuated without being digested.
Does anyone have that article? And if that is the case, could we not say you could eat more protein calories than you can carbohydrates calories and get the same deficit?
Thoughts?
To my understanding, what our bodies don't digest is already taken into account when determining the calorie value of a food.8 -
Just to start off, I am not dieting KETO, though I do think it is great for people who really find protein very filling.
But, I often wonder if there is more to KETO than just the calorie deficit. A while ago (it may have been 9 months ago or so) someone posted a scientific medical journal article (not a woo article) which discussed the way in which the body digested food. I wish I could remember all the details, but the big take away was that people digest different macros to a different degree.
People digest a higher percentage of carbohydrates, I don't remember the number, but just for discussion, let's say 80% of carbohydrates are digested, the rest passes through a person's system and is evacuated undigested. The article stated fat is digested at the next highest rate, let's say 70%. So 70% of fat is digested and 30% is evacuated without being digested. Protein is the hardest to digest, let's say 60% is digested, and 40% is evacuated without being digested.
Does anyone have that article? And if that is the case, could we not say you could eat more protein calories than you can carbohydrates calories and get the same deficit?
Thoughts?
Fat has the lowest thermic effect, meaning that it's the "most digested". Carbs are next, then protein.
To properly understand what you're talking about, it helps to look at it the right way. The calories not "absorbed" are already accounted for in the Atwater caloric values. The calories that are used in the process of digesting each macro are part of your calories out calculation and are a different thing entirely. That's what I'm referring to when I say "thermic effect".
So, for even more detail, the approximate thermic effects:
Protein: 20-35%
Carbohydrate: 5-15%
Fat: 0-5%
In other words, there's no "calories out" benefit to fat over carbs.9 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
To my understanding, what our bodies don't digest is already taken into account when determining the calorie value of a food.
The handful of nutrition labels I've looked at in this context support your statement - calories do not reflect undigestible content. FWIW, I'm in the USA looking at US food labels.
It's often the reason why people complain that when they enter food into their diary, the macros don't correctly add up to the calories... i.e. 9*fats + 4*carbs + 4*protein does not = total cals3 -
Just to start off, I am not dieting KETO, though I do think it is great for people who really find protein very filling.
Just want to point out, it's a common misconception about keto that it's a *high* protein diet (I used to be under that impression). It's actually a high fat, moderate protein diet.13 -
Remember: This is MFP...you don't HAVE to follow keto or any other "additional" plan to play here.
Saying that...if you're considering a certain kind, why not just give it a try for a given period of time, such as a month? You don't have to commit your entire life. See if it works for you. In the end, the only way you can find out is by giving a try.1 -
I think it's important when discussing these hot button topics that we be overly clear about what we are talking about.
Does keto work? Depends on a lot of things, one of those things is what exactly you mean by "work".
Most of us default to the context of weight loss... so we say things like "keto works if it helps you maintain a calorie deficit." That's true.
Others come at it from the angle of overall health or how they feel while on keto or any of a number of things. Those aren't wrong... but can be a bit more subjective/individual, so it's important to make that clear. But those things are no more or less valid than is the weight loss context.
Far too often, all these different contexts gets mashed into 1 conversation because someone makes an assumption, assuming that others are making the same assumption. So... let this be a reminder to all to be clear about what you are claiming/supporting/arguing.4 -
I don't really buy into any of the woo woo health benefits of keto. But after yo yoing and gaining and losing the same ten pounds off and on for years, I am giving it a try. Just to shake things up and trying something different. To see if maybe it can help.
So far I'm doing ok. The loss rate is no more than when I'm doing well just calorie counting. I do feel better able to control my calories this way. For whatever reason, the "rules" and restrictions are working for me. I think sometimes the whole "just eat less of the same stuff" is too wide open for me. I'm not always successful with that. Maybe I just like eating fat!
I don't think I'd "recommend" keto for anyone. For me it is just a strategy to try to control my caloric intake and feel more satisfied while doing so. But I dunno. I usually do well for a few months with everything weight loss related and then it all goes to hell.8 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
yep mine is at a minimum right now and I dont need meds yet(its been more than 10 years since diagnosed). but when I was doing keto I was in a LOT of pain. not so now as I no longer do keto
Sorry, I wrote that poorly! I am doing keto and have been miraculously pain free since the second week I began. I am, however, on two different RA meds (plaquenil and sulfasalazine). I'm glad you're doing well without the keto diet!0 -
Just to start off, I am not dieting KETO, though I do think it is great for people who really find protein very filling.
But, I often wonder if there is more to KETO than just the calorie deficit. A while ago (it may have been 9 months ago or so) someone posted a scientific medical journal article (not a woo article) which discussed the way in which the body digested food. I wish I could remember all the details, but the big take away was that people digest different macros to a different degree.
People digest a higher percentage of carbohydrates, I don't remember the number, but just for discussion, let's say 80% of carbohydrates are digested, the rest passes through a person's system and is evacuated undigested. The article stated fat is digested at the next highest rate, let's say 70%. So 70% of fat is digested and 30% is evacuated without being digested. Protein is the hardest to digest, let's say 60% is digested, and 40% is evacuated without being digested.
Does anyone have that article? And if that is the case, could we not say you could eat more protein calories than you can carbohydrates calories and get the same deficit?
Thoughts?
Once a link is posted to the article I will share my thoughts
1 -
kenyonhaff wrote: »Remember: This is MFP...you don't HAVE to follow keto or any other "additional" plan to play here.
Saying that...if you're considering a certain kind, why not just give it a try for a given period of time, such as a month? You don't have to commit your entire life. See if it works for you. In the end, the only way you can find out is by giving a try.
In general, I think that's pretty sensible and moderate advice. The one thing I'd say is that keto seems to be one of the more "technical" (for lack of a better term) ways of managing one's eating, with things that need to be done to actually get into a keto state, to avoid "keto flu", and that sort of thing.
I'm not saying people shouldn't do it, and I believe that it works super well for some people (not just those with medical need, but some others). I have nothing against it (except for me, personally; low carb isn't my jam).
I'm saying that it's easier to "test drive" eating modes that have simpler rules, in order to achieve/sustain that way of eating for a fair trial, and figure out whether they have the advertised benefits or are compatible with a particular person's enjoyment and nutrition. Even something like "whole foods plant based/no animal product consumption" are easier in that sense. There are things (in WFPB) that need to be understood in order to maintaing good nutrition (like B12 intake), but those are not things that will cause major problems during a month's trial, for most people.
Again, I'm not saying that the relative complexity is a reason not to try keto, and I suspect most people will achieve low-carb (if not an actual keto state), but I think it is something people should think about, and be sure they understand that eating mode, as prep for a trial.
I also suspect that the technical-ish aspect is something some people will enjoy. (That's not a criticism: I like the science-fair aspect of calorie counting, and that's part of what makes counting a good solution for me. Some other people hate counting, so it might not be the best choice for them.)1 -
You could always try LCHF first. Try reducing carbs and see if the benefits outweigh what you perceive to be the food negatives.
Or not. If you have something else that has worked for you really well in the past and is sustainable, then go for that. If not, trying LCHF or keto will not hurt (barring those with unusual health problems.)
Those are pretty common effects of the ketogenic diet. Many, if not most, will experience this, especially if you are coming from metabolic syndrome.
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