Keto diet
Replies
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dillianavramov wrote: »Keto does not mean unchecked eating. You will still gain weight if you are in caloric surplus. Many find themselves feeling more satiated or with less appetite, so they don't eat as much and as often on keto. Stable blood sugar levels makes you less prone to ravenous hunger that typical caloric restriction tends to cause.
You can try intermittent fasting in lieu or together with keto for a few weeks and see how you feel on it. If you find it is not your cup of tea, you don't have to stick with it. Just give it a go.
MFP suggestion is a tad too low. It suggested I eat 1500 calories, but I am losing weight on keto while eating 1800. I skip breakfast so my first "meal" - BP coffee or bone broth is at 10 AM. Next meal is around 3-4 PM and I wrap my day at 6 PM. So it is 16 hours of fasting and 8 hours of eating.
Not disputing your overall points, but simply replying to the bolded.
For many/most of us, calorie counting, with a sensible weight loss target, does not make us "prone to ravenous hunger" because of "typical caloric restriction".
Some people find keto-style eating to be very satiating, and that's great. I don't question them about that. But please don't try to convince people that those of us who choose simple calorie restriction are "typically" white-knuckling our way through ravenous hunger.
With any change in habits oriented toward weight loss, there may be a short adaptation of a week or two, where the old habits die hard for one reason or another, or new ones throw up challenges. Some people will be a little crave-y at first, some people will need to fine-tune electolytes to eliminate "keto flu", some adjust the timing and proportion of their foods, etc.
There may be a few people who experience "ravenous hunger" at any level of calorie restriction. I don't know. I do know that lots of people here don't experience that once they've adopted a sensible weight loss rate, and found a combination of foods/timing that keeps them satiated.
For some, that combination involves very structured plans like IF or keto; for some, like me, we just happily eat less of pretty much the same foods we always ate, within pretty much the same meal/snack timing. (I was quite contented during a year of weight loss, and 3 years of maintenance since, using just that strategy.)
The bolded is a misrepresentation.12 -
jasonpoihegatama wrote: »as you may hear 1200 may be to low if you are active. And keto is low carb high protein. The Atkins diet is high in fat.
keto is low carbs,high fat and moderate protein but there are other forms of keto.2 -
dillianavramov wrote: »1200 calories is way too low. For a male the minimum is 1800. Slowing down metabolism due to low calories is a thing and will lead to a yo-yo effect, once you go back to what your normal meals look like. Women can go lower, but not below 1200. Drastic caloric restrictions do not work long term. Try increasing activity level instead to create a caloric deficit. To lose 25-30 pounds while keeping your sanity give yourself enough time, 1-2 pounds per week.
well the OP is female and the minimum for a male is 1500 and 1200 for a woman and those are calories for someone very short,sedentary,elderly or a combo of those things.as for 25-30 lbs to lose 2 lbs a week is not recommended . 2 lbs is for those with more than 75 lbs to lose. .5 lb to maybe 1 lb per week would be safe. until op got down to the last 15 or less4 -
dillianavramov wrote: »Keto does not mean unchecked eating. You will still gain weight if you are in caloric surplus. Many find themselves feeling more satiated or with less appetite, so they don't eat as much and as often on keto. Stable blood sugar levels makes you less prone to ravenous hunger that typical caloric restriction tends to cause.
You can try intermittent fasting in lieu or together with keto for a few weeks and see how you feel on it. If you find it is not your cup of tea, you don't have to stick with it. Just give it a go.
MFP suggestion is a tad too low. It suggested I eat 1500 calories, but I am losing weight on keto while eating 1800. I skip breakfast so my first "meal" - BP coffee or bone broth is at 10 AM. Next meal is around 3-4 PM and I wrap my day at 6 PM. So it is 16 hours of fasting and 8 hours of eating.
intermittent fasting isnt going to make a difference either(30+ year veteran IF here). its just a time in which you eat your meals. it wont yield more weight or fat loss either and you can also gain weight fasting as well. it will stable peoples blood sugar IF they have a blood sugar issue. and IF wont necessarily make everyone feel less hungry either. for some they will have the opposite effect
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dillianavramov wrote: »Keto does not mean unchecked eating. You will still gain weight if you are in caloric surplus. Many find themselves feeling more satiated or with less appetite, so they don't eat as much and as often on keto. Stable blood sugar levels makes you less prone to ravenous hunger that typical caloric restriction tends to cause.
You can try intermittent fasting in lieu or together with keto for a few weeks and see how you feel on it. If you find it is not your cup of tea, you don't have to stick with it. Just give it a go.
MFP suggestion is a tad too low. It suggested I eat 1500 calories, but I am losing weight on keto while eating 1800. I skip breakfast so my first "meal" - BP coffee or bone broth is at 10 AM. Next meal is around 3-4 PM and I wrap my day at 6 PM. So it is 16 hours of fasting and 8 hours of eating.
Not disputing your overall points, but simply replying to the bolded.
For many/most of us, calorie counting, with a sensible weight loss target, does not make us "prone to ravenous hunger" because of "typical caloric restriction".
Some people find keto-style eating to be very satiating, and that's great. I don't question them about that. But please don't try to convince people that those of us who choose simple calorie restriction are "typically" white-knuckling our way through ravenous hunger.
With any change in habits oriented toward weight loss, there may be a short adaptation of a week or two, where the old habits die hard for one reason or another, or new ones throw up challenges. Some people will be a little crave-y at first, some people will need to fine-tune electolytes to eliminate "keto flu", some adjust the timing and proportion of their foods, etc.
There may be a few people who experience "ravenous hunger" at any level of calorie restriction. I don't know. I do know that lots of people here don't experience that once they've adopted a sensible weight loss rate, and found a combination of foods/timing that keeps them satiated.
For some, that combination involves very structured plans like IF or keto; for some, like me, we just happily eat less of pretty much the same foods we always ate, within pretty much the same meal/snack timing. (I was quite contented during a year of weight loss, and 3 years of maintenance since, using just that strategy.)
The bolded is a misrepresentation.
I am one of those who are revenous while doing low carb or keto. Fat doesn't satiate me, which is why i went off of UD2 and went back to 3 meals with a focus on protein and fiber (the universal satiating nutrients).6 -
dillianavramov wrote: »Keto does not mean unchecked eating. You will still gain weight if you are in caloric surplus. Many find themselves feeling more satiated or with less appetite, so they don't eat as much and as often on keto. Stable blood sugar levels makes you less prone to ravenous hunger that typical caloric restriction tends to cause.
You can try intermittent fasting in lieu or together with keto for a few weeks and see how you feel on it. If you find it is not your cup of tea, you don't have to stick with it. Just give it a go.
MFP suggestion is a tad too low. It suggested I eat 1500 calories, but I am losing weight on keto while eating 1800. I skip breakfast so my first "meal" - BP coffee or bone broth is at 10 AM. Next meal is around 3-4 PM and I wrap my day at 6 PM. So it is 16 hours of fasting and 8 hours of eating.
Not disputing your overall points, but simply replying to the bolded.
For many/most of us, calorie counting, with a sensible weight loss target, does not make us "prone to ravenous hunger" because of "typical caloric restriction".
Some people find keto-style eating to be very satiating, and that's great. I don't question them about that. But please don't try to convince people that those of us who choose simple calorie restriction are "typically" white-knuckling our way through ravenous hunger.
With any change in habits oriented toward weight loss, there may be a short adaptation of a week or two, where the old habits die hard for one reason or another, or new ones throw up challenges. Some people will be a little crave-y at first, some people will need to fine-tune electolytes to eliminate "keto flu", some adjust the timing and proportion of their foods, etc.
There may be a few people who experience "ravenous hunger" at any level of calorie restriction. I don't know. I do know that lots of people here don't experience that once they've adopted a sensible weight loss rate, and found a combination of foods/timing that keeps them satiated.
For some, that combination involves very structured plans like IF or keto; for some, like me, we just happily eat less of pretty much the same foods we always ate, within pretty much the same meal/snack timing. (I was quite contented during a year of weight loss, and 3 years of maintenance since, using just that strategy.)
The bolded is a misrepresentation.
I am one of those who are revenous while doing low carb or keto. Fat doesn't satiate me, which is why i went off of UD2 and went back to 3 meals with a focus on protein and fiber (the universal satiating nutrients).
Fat doesn't satiate me either. When I did keto, I was eating at maintenance (close to it), so I wouldn't quite say I was ravenous. But I certainly wasn't satisfied.
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Two to three months is only enough time to get to the good stuff. A fabulously successful and buff weight loser here does keto 9 months a year and eats all the wonderful things from October 1 to January 1.
You'll have to count carbs, net carbs especially. You may find yourself being satisfied with barely 1000 calories in a day. You'll have to eat a lot more salt. You may spend more of your nights sleeping. I know not every busy dude has time for that. You could find your libido more active.10 -
If you want a short term keto plan, Atkins might be the way to go. The induction or phase 1 is ketogenic and then it has you bring carbs back in as desired.
As a short term weight loss goal, I would not advise keto, and I been keto (safely and healthfully) for years. Without an exit plan, you would be more likely to regain your weight. It is probably smarter to start as you mean to continue.
Plus there is an adaptation time to ketosis. In the first few weeks you need to get electrolytes balanced with extra sodium and magnesium. In that time you may feel added fatigue or slight weakness as the body adapts to fat burning. Fat adaptation can take a few months. You might be quitting when you get there.
Phinney and Volek advise moderate protein if you do decide to start. By moderate, they mean to figure out what is enough protein when at maintenance and stick with that while losing. If 100g is good for maintaining then use that for losing. While losing it we bump up your protein macro to 25-35%, but it is better than too little. At maintenance, protein may look more like 20-25%.
And while high protein (in excess of 200+g of protein) may lower your ketones somewhat, it is not an issue for most unless you need ketones for a health issue. Some diabetics will have insulin and BG levels affected a lot by protein but the only way to know is to test your BG before and after meals. Not all (or even most) have a large reaction.7 -
Three years ago I did lose 60 pounds doing a standard diet of chicken breasts and veggies, oats, yogurt and blueberries, protein shakes (high protein, moderate to high carbs, low fat) and split my 1500 calories into 3 meals and two snacks (gym culture claimed you need protein every two to 3 hours or your muscles would melt). Did light cardio daily and some resistance training.
While doing it I had afternoon crashes at work, felt tired, I hated coworkers and family alike because they got to eat while I felt always hungry (I was literally eye *kitten* their lunches while I poked at my 300 calorie speck of food and chowed on romaine lettuce.
Stress at work and internal discomfort led to a job burnout and depression and anything I was doing before, I didn't want to do anymore. Three months later I was back in my former weight.
I am endomorph, and I do like to eat a lot, quite the carnivore. I developed a taste for fattier foods quite easy. I am down 10 pounds in a week's time (I know initially it is mostly water weight), sleep better, eat a substantial meal 2 times a day and feel much better about myself and the world in general. For my body type IF is easy and is effective.
I did try Vince Gironda's Steak and Eggs diet, but could not stick to it, because it became boring fast. And I also did not have the activity and gym routine to make use of all that protein.
Am I saying everyone should eat like me? No. This works for ME. OP asked if she should try keto. My answer, based on my personal experience and collected data, is yes. If you do well on carbs, don't crash and diabetes is not a ghost in the closet, more power to ya.9 -
dillianavramov wrote: »Three years ago I did lose 60 pounds doing a standard diet of chicken breasts and veggies, oats, yogurt and blueberries, protein shakes (high protein, moderate to high carbs, low fat) and split my 1500 calories into 3 meals and two snacks (gym culture claimed you need protein every two to 3 hours or your muscles would melt). Did light cardio daily and some resistance training.
While doing it I had afternoon crashes at work, felt tired, I hated coworkers and family alike because they got to eat while I felt always hungry (I was literally eye *kitten* their lunches while I poked at my 300 calorie speck of food and chowed on romaine lettuce.
Stress at work and internal discomfort led to a job burnout and depression and anything I was doing before, I didn't want to do anymore. Three months later I was back in my former weight.
I am endomorph, and I do like to eat a lot, quite the carnivore. I developed a taste for fattier foods quite easy. I am down 10 pounds in a week's time (I know initially it is mostly water weight), sleep better, eat a substantial meal 2 times a day and feel much better about myself and the world in general. For my body type IF is easy and is effective.
I did try Vince Gironda's Steak and Eggs diet, but could not stick to it, because it became boring fast. And I also did not have the activity and gym routine to make use of all that protein.
Am I saying everyone should eat like me? No. This works for ME. OP asked if she should try keto. My answer, based on my personal experience and collected data, is yes. If you do well on carbs, don't crash and diabetes is not a ghost in the closet, more power to ya.
endomorph isnt a thing when it comes to weight gain or loss and so on. somatypes have been debunked .so your body type has nothing to do with what diet is best for your body type.9 -
dillianavramov wrote: »Three years ago I did lose 60 pounds doing a standard diet of chicken breasts and veggies, oats, yogurt and blueberries, protein shakes (high protein, moderate to high carbs, low fat) and split my 1500 calories into 3 meals and two snacks (gym culture claimed you need protein every two to 3 hours or your muscles would melt). Did light cardio daily and some resistance training.
While doing it I had afternoon crashes at work, felt tired, I hated coworkers and family alike because they got to eat while I felt always hungry (I was literally eye *kitten* their lunches while I poked at my 300 calorie speck of food and chowed on romaine lettuce.
I think your problem is that you are assuming one needs some super specific diet to lose. I would not call what you just described a "standard diet," I'd call it some kind of gym woo, and I'd be bored.
I lost 90 lbs eating the kinds of food I enjoy, a healthy diet, prioritizing veg and protein, and in the pattern and with the foods that I know make me feel satisfied.
That meant eggs and veg at breakfast, and then different foods at lunch and dinner, and -- for me -- no snacks, since snacking would mean my meals would be smaller and I don't really enjoy snacking. No protein shakes, huge variety of different meats and other foods (especially veg).
I was never hungry, and certainly had no crashes.I did try Vince Gironda's Steak and Eggs diet, but could not stick to it, because it became boring fast. And I also did not have the activity and gym routine to make use of all that protein.
Again, focusing on specific diets.Am I saying everyone should eat like me? No. This works for ME. OP asked if she should try keto. My answer, based on my personal experience and collected data, is yes. If you do well on carbs, don't crash and diabetes is not a ghost in the closet, more power to ya.
Great it works for you, although what you recommended to OP was more than standard keto and also low protein and your reasoning for it was full of inaccurate claims.
You may be someone who benefits from keto. I think some find it easier to maintain a deficit or even maintenance calories on keto. It does not sound to me like you have tried a realistic alternative, but doesn't matter if you are happy. But you shouldn't then tell everyone else -- like OP! -- to do keto just because you like it more than some gym bro diet.
As I said either upthread or in the other quite similar thread, I think keto mostly works because people change their diet a lot, can't eat the foods they used to overeat and feel like they have a positive (special) way of eating that helps with motivation (it's almost like being into a conspiracy theory where one feels like one knows things the average person does not), because for some (not all) very low carb kills appetite, because boredom is prevented by the excitement of a new way of eating and new things to try (therefore, fat bombs, various "hacks" like coconut oil coffee, ugh), and -- most of all -- because they assume that standard dieting involves cutting out everything and eating a boring diet and low cals, and keto lets you feel decadent and diet while eating cheese and bacon (and if you want eschewing veg, since sadly many people barely eat veg however they eat).15 -
Somatotypes are dubunked as the attempt to associate appearance with character, but they are usable for describing the body's shape. I use it in that context only. It is funny how people take on one word of a paragraph and run with it14
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dillianavramov wrote: »Three years ago I did lose 60 pounds doing a standard diet of chicken breasts and veggies, oats, yogurt and blueberries, protein shakes (high protein, moderate to high carbs, low fat) and split my 1500 calories into 3 meals and two snacks (gym culture claimed you need protein every two to 3 hours or your muscles would melt). Did light cardio daily and some resistance training.
While doing it I had afternoon crashes at work, felt tired, I hated coworkers and family alike because they got to eat while I felt always hungry (I was literally eye *kitten* their lunches while I poked at my 300 calorie speck of food and chowed on romaine lettuce.
I think your problem is that you are assuming one needs some super specific diet to lose. I would not call what you just described a "standard diet," I'd call it some kind of gym woo, and I'd be bored.
I lost 90 lbs eating the kinds of food I enjoy, a healthy diet, prioritizing veg and protein, and in the pattern and with the foods that I know make me feel satisfied.
That meant eggs and veg at breakfast, and then different foods at lunch and dinner, and -- for me -- no snacks, since snacking would mean my meals would be smaller and I don't really enjoy snacking. No protein shakes, huge variety of different meats and other foods (especially veg).
I was never hungry, and certainly had no crashes.I did try Vince Gironda's Steak and Eggs diet, but could not stick to it, because it became boring fast. And I also did not have the activity and gym routine to make use of all that protein.
Again, focusing on specific diets.Am I saying everyone should eat like me? No. This works for ME. OP asked if she should try keto. My answer, based on my personal experience and collected data, is yes. If you do well on carbs, don't crash and diabetes is not a ghost in the closet, more power to ya.
Great it works for you, although what you recommended to OP was more than standard keto and also low protein and your reasoning for it was full of inaccurate claims.
You may be someone who benefits from keto. I think some find it easier to maintain a deficit or even maintenance calories on keto. It does not sound to me like you have tried a realistic alternative, but doesn't matter if you are happy. But you shouldn't then tell everyone else -- like OP! -- to do keto just because you like it more than some gym bro diet.
As I said either upthread or in the other quite similar thread, I think keto mostly works because people change their diet a lot, can't eat the foods they used to overeat and feel like they have a positive (special) way of eating that helps with motivation (it's almost like being into a conspiracy theory where one feels like one knows things the average person does not), because for some (not all) very low carb kills appetite, because boredom is prevented by the excitement of a new way of eating and new things to try (therefore, fat bombs, various "hacks" like coconut oil coffee, ugh), and -- most of all -- because they assume that standard dieting involves cutting out everything and eating a boring diet and low cals, and keto lets you feel decadent and diet while eating cheese and bacon (and if you want eschewing veg, since sadly many people barely eat veg however they eat).
OK, now you are making inaccurate claims - there are veggies on keto. There are less fruits for sure and no legumes and tubers, but keto is all for leafy green veggies. Plant based keto is totally possible, so I don't know where you get those "facts".
What is standard keto? And according to whom?
This thread, although a question about keto, seems more like one against it. We all have brains and can do our own research.
Here is what nutritional ketosis is according to someone who was quoted earlier in the thread:
What is nutritional ketosis?
By Dr. Stephen Phinney
Nutritional ketosis is a natural metabolic state in which your body is fueled mainly by fats and ketones, instead of carbohydrates (glucose). Nutritional ketosis happens when carbohydrate consumption goes low enough that a person’s liver can convert adipose tissue and dietary fats into a fatty acid known as ketones, then burn the ketones for energy.
Carbohydrates are an energy source, but they’re not the only one your body can use. When there’s very little carbohydrate in your diet, your body has a natural and readily available option – nutritional ketosis. And what it will use is fat—the fat in the foods you eat as well as your own stored body fat.
So there is nothing unnatural about keto, the same way as there is nothing unnatural about high carbs. Everyone is free to pick what they feel good on and can stick to long term.
As for the "specific diets", they have one common goal - fat loss first, weight loss second.10 -
JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Two to three months is only enough time to get to the good stuff. A fabulously successful and buff weight loser here does keto 9 months a year and eats all the wonderful things from October 1 to January 1.
You'll have to count carbs, net carbs especially. You may find yourself being satisfied with barely 1000 calories in a day. You'll have to eat a lot more salt. You may spend more of your nights sleeping. I know not every busy dude has time for that. You could find your libido more active.
Above and beyond what any kind of normal weight loss would cause?
At first guess, I would think keto diets would be associated with infertility simply for the fact that male gametes are one of the few human cells that can directly use fructose for fuel, which is going to be in low supply on a keto diet.13 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Two to three months is only enough time to get to the good stuff. A fabulously successful and buff weight loser here does keto 9 months a year and eats all the wonderful things from October 1 to January 1.
You'll have to count carbs, net carbs especially. You may find yourself being satisfied with barely 1000 calories in a day. You'll have to eat a lot more salt. You may spend more of your nights sleeping. I know not every busy dude has time for that. You could find your libido more active.
Above and beyond what any kind of normal weight loss would cause?
At first guess, I would think keto diets would be associated with infertility simply for the fact that male gametes are one of the few human cells that can directly use fructose for fuel, which is going to be in low supply on a keto diet.
Those who have issues with low sex hormones sometimes find the added fat on the diet helps with hormone regulation. Others may find steadier blood glucose levels help, and yet others experience improved cardiovascular health helps.
These are possible benefits that some may experience, and they are not exclusive to keto.... gotta get those disclaimers in.
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dillianavramov wrote: »dillianavramov wrote: »Three years ago I did lose 60 pounds doing a standard diet of chicken breasts and veggies, oats, yogurt and blueberries, protein shakes (high protein, moderate to high carbs, low fat) and split my 1500 calories into 3 meals and two snacks (gym culture claimed you need protein every two to 3 hours or your muscles would melt). Did light cardio daily and some resistance training.
While doing it I had afternoon crashes at work, felt tired, I hated coworkers and family alike because they got to eat while I felt always hungry (I was literally eye *kitten* their lunches while I poked at my 300 calorie speck of food and chowed on romaine lettuce.
I think your problem is that you are assuming one needs some super specific diet to lose. I would not call what you just described a "standard diet," I'd call it some kind of gym woo, and I'd be bored.
I lost 90 lbs eating the kinds of food I enjoy, a healthy diet, prioritizing veg and protein, and in the pattern and with the foods that I know make me feel satisfied.
That meant eggs and veg at breakfast, and then different foods at lunch and dinner, and -- for me -- no snacks, since snacking would mean my meals would be smaller and I don't really enjoy snacking. No protein shakes, huge variety of different meats and other foods (especially veg).
I was never hungry, and certainly had no crashes.I did try Vince Gironda's Steak and Eggs diet, but could not stick to it, because it became boring fast. And I also did not have the activity and gym routine to make use of all that protein.
Again, focusing on specific diets.Am I saying everyone should eat like me? No. This works for ME. OP asked if she should try keto. My answer, based on my personal experience and collected data, is yes. If you do well on carbs, don't crash and diabetes is not a ghost in the closet, more power to ya.
Great it works for you, although what you recommended to OP was more than standard keto and also low protein and your reasoning for it was full of inaccurate claims.
You may be someone who benefits from keto. I think some find it easier to maintain a deficit or even maintenance calories on keto. It does not sound to me like you have tried a realistic alternative, but doesn't matter if you are happy. But you shouldn't then tell everyone else -- like OP! -- to do keto just because you like it more than some gym bro diet.
As I said either upthread or in the other quite similar thread, I think keto mostly works because people change their diet a lot, can't eat the foods they used to overeat and feel like they have a positive (special) way of eating that helps with motivation (it's almost like being into a conspiracy theory where one feels like one knows things the average person does not), because for some (not all) very low carb kills appetite, because boredom is prevented by the excitement of a new way of eating and new things to try (therefore, fat bombs, various "hacks" like coconut oil coffee, ugh), and -- most of all -- because they assume that standard dieting involves cutting out everything and eating a boring diet and low cals, and keto lets you feel decadent and diet while eating cheese and bacon (and if you want eschewing veg, since sadly many people barely eat veg however they eat).OK, now you are making inaccurate claims - there are veggies on keto. There are less fruits for sure and no legumes and tubers, but keto is all for leafy green veggies. Plant based keto is totally possible, so I don't know where you get those "facts".
I never claimed you could not eat vegetables on keto, so YOU are the one misstating what someone said (and therefore making an inaccurate claim).
What I said is that keto may be appealing to some (I know some in this camp) because you don't have to eat vegetables, and because it tends to be lower veg than what they consider "eating healthy" in the traditional way (and don't have a desire to do). Similarly, it emphasizes some foods that many people (wrongly) think they need to cut out on a normal lowered cal diet. The old Atkins diet actually required veg, I believe, and I think that was a very good thing, but keto is more open-ended.
I also said, elsewhere, that when I tried keto I ate around 35 g net carbs and the only carbs I ate other than non starchy veg was about a serving of nuts per day and occasionally a serving of dairy, and half an avocado (as it's technically a fruit), and I was always having to limit my veg vs. what I normally eat. That doesn't mean you can't eat sufficient veg on keto, I think you can, but I think you have to work at it and if you are eating other sources of carbs it becomes difficult. (And recall you also recommended fat bombs which typically come with carbs.)What is standard keto? And according to whom?
Keto is just eating so you are in ketosis. That's really all it requires. And I note the quote from Phinney agrees with me on that. (I've read the Phinney/Volek book, btw.)This thread, although a question about keto, seems more like one against it. We all have brains and can do our own research.
I'm not against keto at all. I'm against telling people they need to do keto or that there's some general advantage to keto, or basically making inaccurate claims about why very low carb diets work for some people.As for the "specific diets", they have one common goal - fat loss first, weight loss second.
You don't need a specific diet for that, and if you do keto with low protein, as you recommended (more than 80% fat, on reduced calories), rather than focusing on getting enough protein, then you are very much risking losing more muscle than necessary.13 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Two to three months is only enough time to get to the good stuff. A fabulously successful and buff weight loser here does keto 9 months a year and eats all the wonderful things from October 1 to January 1.
You'll have to count carbs, net carbs especially. You may find yourself being satisfied with barely 1000 calories in a day. You'll have to eat a lot more salt. You may spend more of your nights sleeping. I know not every busy dude has time for that. You could find your libido more active.
Above and beyond what any kind of normal weight loss would cause?
At first guess, I would think keto diets would be associated with infertility simply for the fact that male gametes are one of the few human cells that can directly use fructose for fuel, which is going to be in low supply on a keto diet.
Oh, dear, that could be abused -- I don't need to use protection, I'm on keto!7 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Two to three months is only enough time to get to the good stuff. A fabulously successful and buff weight loser here does keto 9 months a year and eats all the wonderful things from October 1 to January 1.
You'll have to count carbs, net carbs especially. You may find yourself being satisfied with barely 1000 calories in a day. You'll have to eat a lot more salt. You may spend more of your nights sleeping. I know not every busy dude has time for that. You could find your libido more active.
Above and beyond what any kind of normal weight loss would cause?
At first guess, I would think keto diets would be associated with infertility simply for the fact that male gametes are one of the few human cells that can directly use fructose for fuel, which is going to be in low supply on a keto diet.
Oh, dear, that could be abused -- I don't need to use protection, I'm on keto!
Perhaps like endurance runners, swimmers can become fat adapted too? It is a pretty long marathon, when considering the scale.
Though "I'm in ketosis" might be birth control for some people regardless.14 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Two to three months is only enough time to get to the good stuff. A fabulously successful and buff weight loser here does keto 9 months a year and eats all the wonderful things from October 1 to January 1.
You'll have to count carbs, net carbs especially. You may find yourself being satisfied with barely 1000 calories in a day. You'll have to eat a lot more salt. You may spend more of your nights sleeping. I know not every busy dude has time for that. You could find your libido more active.
Above and beyond what any kind of normal weight loss would cause?
At first guess, I would think keto diets would be associated with infertility simply for the fact that male gametes are one of the few human cells that can directly use fructose for fuel, which is going to be in low supply on a keto diet.
Oh, dear, that could be abused -- I don't need to use protection, I'm on keto!
Perhaps like endurance runners, swimmers can become fat adapted too? It is a pretty long marathon, when considering the scale.
Though "I'm in ketosis" might be birth control for some people regardless.
Speaking as a person who's pretty strongly sapiosexual, and based on the moving average of what I see in threads around here . . . if someone said it, it might well reinforce my leaning toward abstinence.
P.S. This is a joke. Not all of you on keto, for heaven's sake.5 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTcv7XoZ2xw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGZZESrXSgw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6dLX0Q5xzY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATAhqZ7yulo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFSad9BqWRM
These are vids I use to figure out my own protein range. If I were on a 1200 calories diet, I would put my needed protein, 20-25g net carbs and fill the rest of my calories with fats.10 -
Video is not a strong way to argue, 'cause likely no one will watch it.
Guessing at what it might say, I posted links explaining why you need more protein on low carb, not less (although it might have been in another keto thread where we were discussing this, I'm confused between the various keto threads).
15% protein can be enough for muscle maintenance depending on total calories eaten and size, but I suspect it's mostly not for the average person just starting keto.10 -
dillianavramov wrote: »Somatotypes are dubunked as the attempt to associate appearance with character, but they are usable for describing the body's shape. I use it in that context only. It is funny how people take on one word of a paragraph and run with it
they arent usable to describe body shape because many people fall into more than one category. I fall into all 3(which means squat) because I believed the hype back then too,. it has noting to do with anything someone just took the idea and applied it to diets and so on to make a buck or two. had I believed that my body type meant I had to eat a certain way I would still probably be obese3 -
Video is not a strong way to argue, 'cause likely no one will watch it.
Guessing at what it might say, I posted links explaining why you need more protein on low carb, not less (although it might have been in another keto thread where we were discussing this, I'm confused between the various keto threads).
15% protein can be enough for muscle maintenance depending on total calories eaten and size, but I suspect it's mostly not for the average person just starting keto.
And just to add, in addition to 45 minutes of video, the videos are from Dr. Berg (chiropractor), Dr. Axe (chiro and "natural medicine"), a self-professed celebrity trainer, and an athlete.
And I'm not really sure how any of this affects the OP, since she is looking to do keto for 2 months at unnecessarily low calories in order to lose weight fast. Low protein or not would be the least of her worries IMHO.12 -
dillianavramov wrote: »https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6dLX0Q5xzY
These are vids I use to figure out my own protein range. If I were on a 1200 calories diet, I would put my needed protein, 20-25g net carbs and fill the rest of my calories with fats.
Interesting. I've never considered the protein needs of a sketched character.12 -
dillianavramov wrote: »https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTcv7XoZ2xwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGZZESrXSgwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6dLX0Q5xzYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATAhqZ7yulohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFSad9BqWRM
These are vids I use to figure out my own protein range. If I were on a 1200 calories diet, I would put my needed protein, 20-25g net carbs and fill the rest of my calories with fats.
The middle one is largely the best one to follow which aligns and even exceeds thr meta analysis I posted. Now why is that? It actually takes the advice from leading protein researchers as opposed to cherry picking a few studies, remembering that meta analyses > individual studies. His focus is largely on Dr. Eric Helms' recommended ranges of .8-1.3g/lb. Now obviously the more obese and the less active you are, it would be recommended to aim for the lower end. But unless you are on a very high calorie diet, its unlikely you will be able to hit protein goals off 15% protein intake, even more so on 1200 calories, which equates to 45g.5 -
As I said either upthread or in the other quite similar thread, I think keto mostly works because people change their diet a lot, can't eat the foods they used to overeat and feel like they have a positive (special) way of eating that helps with motivation (it's almost like being into a conspiracy theory where one feels like one knows things the average person does not), because for some (not all) very low carb kills appetite, because boredom is prevented by the excitement of a new way of eating and new things to try (therefore, fat bombs, various "hacks" like coconut oil coffee, ugh), and -- most of all -- because they assume that standard dieting involves cutting out everything and eating a boring diet and low cals, and keto lets you feel decadent and diet while eating cheese and bacon (and if you want eschewing veg, since sadly many people barely eat veg however they eat).
Are you aware of how condescending this story you're telling yourself is? Or are you okay with it?
A great many people who do keto find an increase in focus, mental clarity, mood stabilization, energy stabilization, and clearer skin. Many keto people I speak to say they find their PCOS symptoms all but vanish on this diet.
There are tons of people who do this WOE who aren't concerned about their weight at all.
A lot of people simply feel much better on this diet.
And that might contribute to weight loss, don't you think?
Maybe you could add that to your list somewhere between you thinking we just want to feel special and you thinking we don't understand how standard dieting works.17 -
Video is not a strong way to argue, 'cause likely no one will watch it.
Guessing at what it might say, I posted links explaining why you need more protein on low carb, not less (although it might have been in another keto thread where we were discussing this, I'm confused between the various keto threads).
15% protein can be enough for muscle maintenance depending on total calories eaten and size, but I suspect it's mostly not for the average person just starting keto.
And just to add, in addition to 45 minutes of video, the videos are from Dr. Berg (chiropractor), Dr. Axe (chiro and "natural medicine"), a self-professed celebrity trainer, and an athlete.
And I'm not really sure how any of this affects the OP, since she is looking to do keto for 2 months at unnecessarily low calories in order to lose weight fast. Low protein or not would be the least of her worries IMHO.
Also, there was only one video when I posted.
Remember, my comments were a response to this advice to the OP:dillianavramov wrote: »Started keto myself.
Do's:
1. Eat plenty of healthy fats (like 80%) - MCT Oil, Coconut Oil, Ghee or Butter, Avocados, nitrate-free bacon, eggs, Macadamia nuts, Beef Bone broth, Kalamata Olives, Sardines, Herrings, Salmon (in moderation due to high mercury unless wild-caught). Look for foods whose fat contents surpasses the combined protein and net carbs.
2. Use plenty of Himalayan pink salt;
3. Use a complete multivitamin;
4. Eat one Brazil nut a day (source of Selenium);
5. Start your day with a glass of water with 1tbsp apple cider vinegar and 1 tbps lemon juice.
6. Drink coffee (black or bulletproof, with Stevia if you have to), imperial or ceremonial grade matcha tea or green tea (can drink decaf in the afternoon).
7. Count calories and macros - it helps you avoid overeating, since fatty foods are very calorie dense. And it also allows you to adjust if you go over on protein.
8. Keep protein moderate - about 15% of your calories. You want your body to burn fat, not convert protein to glucose.
9. Drink plenty of water - a gallon would be great.
10. Once you get fat adapted (about 3 weeks if you never did keto before) you can mix in Intermittent fasting (16:8).
11. Keep your carbs to 5% or 20 grams net carbs. Focus on leafy greens like chards, kale, spinach, asparagus, Brussels sprouts, cauliflower, broccoli. Fruits are not your friend, especially while you are getting fat adapted (making the transition from carbs to fats).
12. You can use 100% unsweetened baking chocolate or Cacao powder if making fat bombs to deal with cravings. It has some carbs, so make room for it.
It is reasonably likely OP is on around 1200 -- she in fact said she was. 15% is unlikely to be a good idea, certainly not a good idea for a one-size fits all list of rules telling her what she should do.3 -
As I said either upthread or in the other quite similar thread, I think keto mostly works because people change their diet a lot, can't eat the foods they used to overeat and feel like they have a positive (special) way of eating that helps with motivation (it's almost like being into a conspiracy theory where one feels like one knows things the average person does not), because for some (not all) very low carb kills appetite, because boredom is prevented by the excitement of a new way of eating and new things to try (therefore, fat bombs, various "hacks" like coconut oil coffee, ugh), and -- most of all -- because they assume that standard dieting involves cutting out everything and eating a boring diet and low cals, and keto lets you feel decadent and diet while eating cheese and bacon (and if you want eschewing veg, since sadly many people barely eat veg however they eat).
Are you aware of how condescending this story you're telling yourself is? Or are you okay with it?
A great many people who do keto find an increase in focus, mental clarity, mood stabilization, energy stabilization, and clearer skin. Many keto people I speak to say they find their PCOS symptoms all but vanish on this diet.
There are tons of people who do this WOE who aren't concerned about their weight at all.
A lot of people simply feel much better on this diet.
And that might contribute to weight loss, don't you think?
Maybe you could add that to your list somewhere between you thinking we just want to feel special and you thinking we don't understand how standard dieting works.
As I've said over and over again elsewhere, I do think some people feel better on it or struggle less with hunger on it.
You do know that pretty much every diet or way of eating asserts that people on it "find an increase in focus, mental clarity, mood stabilization, energy stabilization, and clearer skin" and also say it fixes health issues.
And it probably does (in all those cases), largely because eating in a thoughtful way after eating in a non-thoughtful way often involves eating better or avoiding some kinds of eating that were bad for you personally, and because the people who stick with it tend to be the ones who enjoy that way of eating.
But I also think there are other reasons it works for people (same with some other very specific ways of eating) and those are some of them. I don't think it's a bad thing to say that for many it's easier to feel like you are doing a positive program with things that you are trying or adding it vs. focusing on what you are not eating -- it's more fun, it distracts you from what you are not doing, as you feel more like you trying something out.
I also think it's REALLY common to think diet food = boring, bland, skinless chicken breast after skinless chicken breast. I see it here all the time. So thinking steak and bacon and butter or whatever (hollandaise sauce according to someone in the keto debate thread), seems more decadent and like you are getting away with something.14 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Two to three months is only enough time to get to the good stuff. A fabulously successful and buff weight loser here does keto 9 months a year and eats all the wonderful things from October 1 to January 1.
You'll have to count carbs, net carbs especially. You may find yourself being satisfied with barely 1000 calories in a day. You'll have to eat a lot more salt. You may spend more of your nights sleeping. I know not every busy dude has time for that. You could find your libido more active.
Above and beyond what any kind of normal weight loss would cause?
At first guess, I would think keto diets would be associated with infertility simply for the fact that male gametes are one of the few human cells that can directly use fructose for fuel, which is going to be in low supply on a keto diet.
Oh, dear, that could be abused -- I don't need to use protection, I'm on keto!
Perhaps like endurance runners, swimmers can become fat adapted too? It is a pretty long marathon, when considering the scale.
Though "I'm in ketosis" might be birth control for some people regardless.
Speaking as a person who's pretty strongly sapiosexual, and based on the moving average of what I see in threads around here . . . if someone said it, it might well reinforce my leaning toward abstinence.
P.S. This is a joke. Not all of you on keto, for heaven's sake.
I find sapiosexuality very wrong - it should be sophosexual. The other typical prefixes, homo and hetero are Greek, and with homo being a different word in Latin, it just gets confusing. The switch to Latin makes it sound like sapiosexuals only are interested in modern humans, but a homosexual would be attracted to neanderthals, cro magnons, and maybe even h. erectus.4 -
Forgive me for going off topic, but sapiosexual? I've never heard this word. Is that having a thing for maple trees?
2
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