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Is counting calories all wrong?
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ParadigmShift82 wrote: »I wonder how people stayed healthy before counting calories? Hmmm...
Well, given that there are plenty of healthy people today who don't count calories, this really shouldn't be hard for you to puzzle out.16 -
ParadigmShift82 wrote: »I wonder how people stayed healthy before counting calories? Hmmm...
Lol not too long ago the average diet was a steak, whiskey, and 1 pack of cigarettes a day.2 -
Then what's the difference between those who stay healthy without counting calories and those who spend hours logging calories and still can't drop the weight?10
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ParadigmShift82 wrote: »Then what's the difference between those who stay healthy without counting calories and those who spend hours logging calories and still can't drop the weight?
Proper education and/or luck.8 -
ParadigmShift82 wrote: »I wonder how people stayed healthy before counting calories? Hmmm...
Statistically speaking, people aren't as active. Jobs aren't as laborious. Food is cheaper, easier and quicker to get, and theres a lot more of it. Many, many reasons... nowadays, overeating is easy. Way, way too easy.11 -
ParadigmShift82 wrote: »Then what's the difference between those who stay healthy without counting calories and those who spend hours logging calories and still can't drop the weight?
I'm assuming by "healthy" you mean "within healthy weight range," as there are all sort of health conditions that have nothing to do with weight but are probably outside the scope of this conversation.
People who are able to maintain their desired weight without counting calories fall into a variety of camps but the basic explanation is they're eating the right amount of calories for their needs. Maybe they're doing it more or less "naturally" because their food choices and appetite guide them to this. Maybe they're using other diet management methods, like limiting foods, portion sizes, or times of day when they eat. There's no single answer.
Someone who is spending hours logging calories (this would be a rare case, but it's your example, so we'll go with it) and still not losing weight isn't reaching a calorie deficit, despite their effort. Maybe they're logging and still choosing to go over their calorie goal. Maybe they're reaching their calorie goal, but they've chosen a goal that is too high compared to what they are actually using. Or maybe they are making logging errors that are keeping them from reaching their goal.
The bottom line is that whatever method you choose, CICO is happening. You don't have to count calories, your body is always doing that for you. Counting calories is just one method that people can choose to use what is naturally happening within your body to consciously manage your weight.13 -
ParadigmShift82 wrote: »Then what's the difference between those who stay healthy without counting calories and those who spend hours logging calories and still can't drop the weight?
If someone is spending hours(seems like a bit of an exaggeration, but ok) logging calories and they aren't losing weight, then they aren't in a caloric deficit. You can count calories all you want, but the number you are counting to is a pretty important detail in the equation.21 -
ParadigmShift82 wrote: »Then what's the difference between those who stay healthy without counting calories and those who spend hours logging calories and still can't drop the weight?
If someone is spending hours(seems like a bit of an exaggeration, but ok) logging calories and they aren't losing weight, then they aren't in a caloric deficit. You can count calories all you want, but the number you are counting to is a pretty important detail in the equation.
Yeah, I have logged days of up to 4,500 calories (which is a big surplus for me) Merely counting just results in data, it isn't going to somehow zap fat off your body.9 -
ParadigmShift82 wrote: »Then what's the difference between those who stay healthy without counting calories and those who spend hours logging calories and still can't drop the weight?
Looking around me at people I know well, the difference between people who've maintained a healthy weight their whole lives, and me (who didn't) is some combination of their being raised with better adult modeling/habits (though I was not an obese child), having better satiety signaling, and perhaps having a narrower or more controlled hedonic streak.
I can't tell you what the difference is between me (logging the calories and losing/maintaing weight for several years) and people who spend hours logging calories and can't drop weight. I know only one person in real life (besides me) who's counted calories consistently and long enough to see results, and she got good results.
I have several people around me who are "eliminating carbs" to lose weight, and aren't dropping the weight. (I put "eliminating carbs" in quotes because . . . they say they are . . . until, to give just one example, they get a "free bagel each day this month" prize from Panera, or see a free cookie.
). I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of the people failing while counting calories are approaching it similarly.
I'm not saying there's no one anywhere, ever, who's faithfully counting calories but not losing weight. I'm merely saying that amongst people I know in real life, I don't know any.
Also, I really don't understand where this "spending hours counting calories" idea comes from, unless we add up months and months of it, or they're not very skilled at it. I'm pretty meticulous about logging and it's trivial minutes daily, at most.
(BTW, I was alive and adult before literal calorie counting became a logistically practical/convenient method of weight management, so I have a pretty good handle on how things were done without it, including successful weight loss, which I did see people accomplish: They ate less, until they lost weight.)5 -
Good answers everyone
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ParadigmShift82 wrote: »Then what's the difference between those who stay healthy without counting calories and those who spend hours logging calories and still can't drop the weight?
Just logging calories doesn't do anything, one must also be at the correct calorie balance for their weight management goals.
My husband's family are all thin and have been since I've known them 20+ years. None of them have ever dieted/gained weight, lost weight etc. From being around them several times a week, going on vacations with them etc-
a. they're constantly moving around/can't sit still. Several of them have ADHD, and I see this as well in my underweight son who also has ADHD.
b. they're all taller (the women are around 6ft tall). I on the other hand am 5ft 6in
c. they don't snack-this isn't intentional, it's just not something they do
d. they eat smaller portions-again not intentional, they just put less on their plates
e. none of them do intentional exercise but they are active in their day to day activities
f. they are very strict with their 'moral' code-no drinking, smoking etc. This is in large part because of their religious leanings (which is the same as mine, but I'm bit more 'loosey goosey' lol).
They don't track/pay any attention to calories. They don't follow a specific way of eating etc. They're all healthy, with healthy weights.
eta: one example-when we go on vacation I bring a stack of books and can spend the whole time reading/vegging out. On the other hand they're up at dawn heading out to explore the area/gobs of walking/shopping etc. They cannot veg out and do nothing, it drives them nuts lol.
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ParadigmShift82 wrote: »Then what's the difference between those who stay healthy without counting calories and those who spend hours logging calories and still can't drop the weight?
Well first, I've been logging for 4 years and I doubt I spend more than 2 minutes per day "counting calories". It really doesn't take much time once you get the hang of it! But if you're logging and not losing weight, either your logging isn't accurate or your numbers are incorrect.
Lots of people maintain a healthy weight without counting calories. The short answer is they maintain a calorie balance without actually counting the calories. Some are just lucky enough to settle into a way of eating and activity level that naturally keeps them in calorie balance. Some are good at reading their hunger signals and have accurate hunger signals, and that system is keeping them at a calorie balance without counting. Some constantly monitor their weight or the way their clothes fit and cut back on portion sizes or drinks or get in more exercise until their weight evens back out. Just because someone isn't counting calories doesn't mean they aren't in a calorie balance.6 -
ParadigmShift82 wrote: »Then what's the difference between those who stay healthy without counting calories and those who spend hoursminutes logging calories and still can't drop the weight?
My wife maintains a healthy weight without counting. She just doesn't eat more than she needs to and doesn't scarf down snacks. She makes a frikken chocolate bar last a week. It's just how she is.
I do none of that stuff so I only lose if I count.13 -
I don't think that anyone is saying that counting calories is the only path to health. BUT the only way to lose weight is to eat fewer calories than you consume. Overall health includes more moving parts than just calories.4
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I'm going to jump in here (been following the thread) from a bit of a different perspective. I think counting calories (for some like myself) gives them information to make good choices. It also helps some people really understand the weight loss process.
Here's an example: I have a coworker who is currently following a "keto" diet. I put keto in quotes because I watch this person eat and know they are nowhere neat ketosis. They marvel at their weight loss - and that's good... The problem is this person attributes the weight loss to the wrong things. Here's what I mean:
We were at a school function together recently and I witnessed how this person ate.
I watched them buy a breakfast burrito - then scrape everything out of the tortilla and eat the filling.
I watched them buy a pulled pork sandwich and then scrape everything off the bun - and eat the filling.
I listened as they turned down BBQ sauce because it had "too many carbs."
They saved 100+ Calories from the tortilla, 150+ Calories from the bun, and maybe 75-100 Calories from the BBQ sauce - that's about a 300 calorie savings. They are losing weight because they are eliminating calories. This same person will eat the cookie and say, "I don't care."
I have no issue with keto as a way of eating, I just use this as an example of how counting calories could possibly help this coworker have a better understanding of why they are losing weight.9 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »azzeazsaleh5429 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »This will not end well. Fung is a quack but many here subscribe to his theories. He’s very polarizing around these forums.
Whether you choose to count calories or not, calories, and ultimately the energy balance that they contribute to, is what drives weight loss, gain and maintenance. You can be in a calorie deficit without counting calories and many who successfully lose weight following some of Fung’s suggestions are doing just that.
For many of us using MFP, accurately logging and managing our calorie intake - regarding of the foods you choose to eat, is the best way to ensure we are in a calorie deficit or, in my case now, eating at maintenance calories having met my weight loss goals and in maintenance for several years.
But buckle up this is going to be a bumpy thread.
I definitely will be keeping the gameplan i just find it odd that a doctor would put that out there
Ours would be a much better world in general, if education - even relevant education - kept people from being either sorely mistaken, or cynical/predatory. Sadly, education provides no such assured preventive.
Old person's grumble coming up....
The internet seems to have weakened people's common sense. I remember the simple advice of from my dear old Mum "if it sounds to good to be true.....".
Being gullible used to be a sign of not being very bright but just because something is in an email or a video on YouTube seems to hook intelligent people too and circumvent their natural cynicism.
Did you know that the word gullible has been dropped from the latest edition of the Oxford English Dictionary?
Vetting sources also seems to have gone out of fashion.
If you asked someone who they would go to for dietary advice people wouldn't normally say a nephrologist, a cardiologist or a chiropractor and yet people are sucked in because someone sends them a link or they see rave reviews on social media.
Ummm.
Remember "Snake Oil Salesmen"?
People have been scammed for centuries, the internet just makes it easier to do the scamming so we see more of it. But I don't really think people are more gullible, just exposed to more. Just like it's easier to do "mail fraud" these days when you don't need to use actual mail.
I really don't think folks were brighter or had more common sense "back in the day".
They had much more effective cough medicine back in the day though...
Man, with such outrageous & overkill labeled ingredients, you got me curious about what those "other ingredients" constitute...throw in some barbituates & metoclopromide in the right doses & you've got yourself a recipe for suicide/aka never wake up0 -
What counting calories has taught me so far, I lost touch with proper portions sizes to a point when I calculate calories I need to cut back a lot of food off my plate or else I will mess up my daily calorie intake. For example, just had some of our family favorite pizza, its 424 calories a slice before mfp I easily would eat 4 slices now I counted calories I only can eat 2 slices. So its a whole new ball game when portioning food for my new ideal weight that is what I am trying to acquire. Not to mention how all the macros get screwed up with all the wrong types of food. My protein for the day is way too low eating bad food.
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IF eating regularly tells my body to store those calories as fat and my body is not being told by my frequent eating to burn fat then:
How do I stay muscular and lean?
Steroids? No... never did them even once.
Youth? No... I'm 41 years old.
Dieting for summer? No... I'm lean year round.
Fasting? No... don't fast except during my 8 hour sleep.
Low carb? No... love carbs. I eat them all of the time.
No sugar? No... my post workout involves low fat ice-cream... daily.
Only 3 meals per day? NO WAY... I'm constantly eating.
Cardio? No... I've never enjoyed or stuck to cardio longer than a few weeks. Boring!
Temporary Good Luck? No... I've been doing this for 26 years.
Fitness Obsession? No... I have a family & only lift weights about 45 minutes a day with few working sets.
Athlete? No... just a regular old family guy.
How is this possible? According to the principles of the video, how do I burn fat? This isn't just theoretical. I would like an honest answer.14 -
FitFamilyGuy wrote: »IF eating regularly tells my body to store those calories as fat and my body is not being told by my frequent eating to burn fat then:
How do I stay muscular and lean?
Steroids? No... never did them even once.
Youth? No... I'm 41 years old.
Dieting for summer? No... I'm lean year round.
Fasting? No... don't fast except during my 8 hour sleep.
Low carb? No... love carbs. I eat them all of the time.
No sugar? No... my post workout involves low fat ice-cream... daily.
Only 3 meals per day? NO WAY... I'm constantly eating.
Cardio? No... I've never enjoyed or stuck to cardio longer than a few weeks. Boring!
Temporary Good Luck? No... I've been doing this for 26 years.
Fitness Obsession? No... I have a family & only lift weights about 45 minutes a day with few working sets.
Athlete? No... just a regular old family guy.
How is this possible? According to the principles of the video, how do I burn fat? This isn't just theoretical. I would like an honest answer.
But, were you able to OBJECTIVELY figure kcals-in vs. kcals out (TDEE) over said 26 years...? Or even just estimate/at least come close/ballpark?0 -
Keto_Vampire wrote: »FitFamilyGuy wrote: »IF eating regularly tells my body to store those calories as fat and my body is not being told by my frequent eating to burn fat then:
How do I stay muscular and lean?
Steroids? No... never did them even once.
Youth? No... I'm 41 years old.
Dieting for summer? No... I'm lean year round.
Fasting? No... don't fast except during my 8 hour sleep.
Low carb? No... love carbs. I eat them all of the time.
No sugar? No... my post workout involves low fat ice-cream... daily.
Only 3 meals per day? NO WAY... I'm constantly eating.
Cardio? No... I've never enjoyed or stuck to cardio longer than a few weeks. Boring!
Temporary Good Luck? No... I've been doing this for 26 years.
Fitness Obsession? No... I have a family & only lift weights about 45 minutes a day with few working sets.
Athlete? No... just a regular old family guy.
How is this possible? According to the principles of the video, how do I burn fat? This isn't just theoretical. I would like an honest answer.
But, were you able to OBJECTIVELY figure kcals-in vs. kcals out (TDEE) over said 26 years...? Or even just estimate/at least come close/ballpark?
I'm not exactly sure if I understand your point but I will try to answer anyway.
For about 22 years I used 90/10 rules like conscious food choices to keep my diet in check. I was always lean, strong and similar in build to my current build. (although just 135 lbs at the start of grade 10 at the very beginning)
Over the past 4 or 5 years but especially the last 2 years I took it up a notch by counting calories. I don't need to count calories but I like to. I like the precision control/results and flexibility of counting calories. For me, when I count calories, cutting out some fat with little loss of muscle or adding some muscle with very little fat is as easy as making the decision to do it.
Are you for or against counting calories? To answer your question, yes I know my average calorie burn rate per day and I get in the ballpark each week to gain muscle or lose fat at will. In the middle of winter I'm currently getting stronger, hitting new personal bests (26 years in) I still have abs. I can provide proof you wish.
I'd still like to know how the principles in the video would explain why I stay lean and constantly eat through the entire day.
Thanks for the reply.
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