Naturally Slim Program

EvilShenanigansTX · February 2019

My husband's employer has offered us the Naturally Slim program at no charge, and we decided to give it a try. We just completed week 1 and I must say, it is giving me conflicted feelings.

For anyone wondering, the program is meant to retrain the way you eat and behave around food. Essentially you chew slowly, eat only one thing on your plate at a time (no combining flavors) to satisfy your brain's 'taste center' , and you eat using a timer (10 minutes eating, 5 minute break to evaluate your hunger levels), then 10 or more minutes eating if needed).

You are supposed to think of your portions in terms of stomach size - they use a loosely held fist. You are also supposed to sip a 7:1 ratio of water to OJ through the day to level out blood sugar. No snacks. Ever.

They encourage food diaries but greatly discourage calorie tracking, or eliminating any foods from your diet (so, no low-carb or keto as they are evidently the devil).

Basically eat slowly at a calorie deficit, and stop when you are full. **mind blown**

Anyone else out there doing this? The NS message boards are not supportive - in fact a small number of NS devotees respond to most people and it feels somewhat cult like. I saw some older threads about the program, but didn't want to resurrect a zombie thread.

Thanks!

psychod787 · February 2019

Low carb is not the devil. It's just a WOE for some people. I see one glaring problem with this program. There is some research that shows after you lose weight you become hungrier. Fullness and appetite changes. I mean I guess it could work. What do I know?🤔

NovusDies · February 2019

So basically it is a program to teach you how to eat intuitively?

I couldn't do it. I rely very heavily on my logging and counting. Knowing I am in a deficit on days I intend to be in one relaxes me. It also helped me get over my very negative relationship with my bathroom scale.

I am always up to learn something new though so I will be following this thread.

sugaraddict4321 · February 2019

Some of the advice seems okay, such as slowing down when you eat and trying to give your body time to process the food before you gobble more.

However, some of the advice is contradictory. You're supposed to eat at a calorie deficit, but how do you know how much that is if you're not tracking at least some of the time?

My only other thought while reading this was whoever came up with it isn't a busy parent. 10 minutes of eating slowly!

lin_be · February 2019

That sounds....unpleasant.

RAinWA · February 2019

Slowing down and paying attention while you eat is probably not a bad thing. But sipping diluted OJ all day? I'd never want OJ again after 2 days.

dhiammarath · February 2019

My mother did this or knew someone who did this and long before I found MFP, I tried to do some of this. (She gave me a glossed over concept list based on a printout). I, being terrible at mindful instructions, tried to put it into practice without really understanding their purpose.

Fast forward like 8 years, and while I count my calories (best for me for weight loss), I still find myself using some of the principles behind this. More because I had patterned these principles into my behavior long before I found MFP, though it didn't help *much*, but food was never my major hangup. Liquid calories were (coffees, etc).

In truth, it didn't really help me eat less without the concept of calories and energy expenditure. On top of which, any gains in potentially "naturally" eating less were terminated by the giant venti coffee frapps I would down like they were going out of style.

Now, though, I find that eating slowly and chewing (experiencing) has two side effects for me: 1), I end up liking food more. 2) I end up getting full(ish) before the meal ends if I take my time. But I don't always remember and still quickly snarf down my food. I am on the lookout for collecting behaviors that will help in maintenance since I'm 30lbs from maintenance (still far, but not as far as I was!).

EvilShenanigansTX · February 2019

So, week 2 update for those curious about the Naturally Slim Program.

This week we learned about the nebulous concept of the Appetit Set Point, reinforce some week 1 'super skills' (eat slowly, stop when full), talked more about hunger and why eating between meals will make you fat, and introduce exercise not as a means of weight loss but to just be healthy.

I struggle with the NS concept of set point. Appetite is the brains desire for food (vs hunger which is a biological need for food). They say to 'reset' your appetite you have to follow all the principles (eat when at a level 3, drink H2oj, eat one thing at a time, stop when full), eat tediously slowly for 6 weeks, taste every bite, and you will want, crave, and desire less food by the end of the 6 weeks. Appetite fixed.

After 1-2 weeks you think, 'I could eat more but won't.' Then in weeks 2-4 you think, 'I am full, and I don't want more.' Finally, weeks 4-6 you get to, 'golly, I can't eat more! Magic!'. That is the reset, and when you plateau your are meant to repeat the 6 week WSP process and lower the magic set point again. (Remember, counting calories is the devil, so this is so subjective!)

For the hunger part, apparently you only really burn calories in a significant way when you are between feeling peckish and feeling like a meal (between 2 and 3). If you snack you are wrecking your calorie burning power and it will store as fat. (Some sense here, eat when hungry... Duh)

If you can't eat and you are at a level 3 you can eat a 'hunger saver'. Take 10 minutes to eat one of the following: 1 hard boiled egg, 5 strawberries, 1 tsp peanut butter, 15 peanuts, 2 cups popcorn, 2 peanut butter crackers, 1 oz meat or jerkey, 1/4 high fiber cereal, or 15 edamame. These aren't snacks, just a little nibble to tide you over for about an hour until a meal. You can't sub anything else for these. Evidently they have scientific studies about these particular food items.

So far I like the eating slowly part. I do notice feeling satisfied sooner. I am not eating one thing at a time, and no H2oj. I am also limiting carbs and tracking my food on MFP to watch calories (all big no-no's).

I lost 2.7 pounds... But I am can't entirely credit the program as some days I wanted more food but stopped because I was at my calorie limit. I was still hungry throughout the day, so breakfast, lunch and dinner were all consumed. I have not found I have a set hunger pattern yet. It is still pretty random.

Onward to week 3. Let me know if you have any questions!

Lillymoo01 · February 2019

Seems like a whole bunch of stupid rules for the most part. The only things I agree with is slowing down and eating mindfully, when time permits, and not eliminating food groups (unless there is a medical reason to do so, or you doing so helps you stay within a deficit).
Not combining flavours .... There is no way I could live like that. It would take away all of my enjoyment of eating.
Eating between meals will make you fat ..... only if it takes you over your calories out for the day
Eliminate calorie tracking .... this has been the reason why I have been successful with weight loss and maintenance. No way I'd do without that.
Adding a bit of OJ to water ..... yuck! OJ diluted that much would taste revolting. I'd prefer plain water.
Only really burn calories in a significant way when you are between feeling peckish and feeling like a meal ... total nonsense. You burn calories all day, every day and more when there is food to digest in your stomach. Most when you are doing intense exercise.

suziecue25 · February 2019

I think that so far the only good thing about this 'programme' is the fact that you and your husband don't have to pay for it.

MissyCHF · February 2019

suziecue25 wrote: »

I think that so far the only good thing about this 'programme' is the fact that you and your husband don't have to pay for it.

Hear, hear!

psychod787 · February 2019

Glad it is working for you. I think after reading some more data, that this is really just a form of cognitive restraint. Interesting. I will be watching the thread.

psychod787 · February 2019

Lillymoo01 wrote: »

Seems like a whole bunch of stupid rules for the most part. The only things I agree with is slowing down and eating mindfully, when time permits, and not eliminating food groups (unless there is a medical reason to do so, or you doing so helps you stay within a deficit).
Not combining flavours .... There is no way I could live like that. It would take away all of my enjoyment of eating.
Eating between meals will make you fat ..... only if it takes you over your calories out for the day
Eliminate calorie tracking .... this has been the reason why I have been successful with weight loss and maintenance. No way I'd do without that.
Adding a bit of OJ to water ..... yuck! OJ diluted that much would taste revolting. I'd prefer plain water.
Only really burn calories in a significant way when you are between feeling peckish and feeling like a meal ... total nonsense. You burn calories all day, every day and more when there is food to digest in your stomach. Most when you are doing intense exercise.

Though lily. I have to add this. There is some observational data with cultures that TEND to not snack. Let's use the French. Their diet is high in fat and calories. Until recent times, i.e., the last decade, they had a low obesity rate. They tended to be a mobile society. Road bikes, walkes, ect. The big one that struck me was, they tended not to snack. They has set meal times. If they got hungry, they drank a coffee or waited until the next scheduled meal. In my opinion just another version of cognitive restraint.

melaniedscott · February 2019

I've done the program. Hated it. The phrase cultish...uh...yea! They push fried food, encourage unbalanced meat to anything else ratios, forbid milk, yogurt, cereal...oh and breakfast because nobody really needs breakfast. And if you admit to eating or enjoying salad or raw vegetables, you scorned and scoffed at. If you missed the sarcasm...there was a lot. Their boards are not only not supportive, they are aggressively hostile if you disagree with anything they say. And...Marcia. Gah! Cannot stand the woman.

While eating slowly and stopping when full is good, the rest is garbage. It was esp bad for me as high protien makes me ill. If I don't eat enough veg, bad things happen. Very bad things. At least it is free. (Was for me, too)

wsusan162 · February 2019

Our employer offers real appeal, sounds like the same concepts, supposed to be a 52 week program, in week 16 now (have lost 0 lbs), checking in with the coach every week for a half hour online "group session" is inconvenient at best (I'm not the type that cares for the rah-rah, yay for us type meetings), the weekly goal check in is a pain, signing the weekly commitment contract to me is stupid. I'm thinking of telling them I'm changing jobs and the new employer is not covering it and dropping out.

Phirrgus · February 2019

suziecue25 wrote: »

I think that so far the only good thing about this 'programme' is the fact that you and your husband don't have to pay for it.

This is my thought as well. I'm usually a proponent of the old "If it works for you"...then the question "Is it something you will continue after the weight is gone?" sneaks in there...

suziecue25 · February 2019

melaniedscott wrote: »

I've done the program. Hated it. The phrase cultish...uh...yea! They push fried food, encourage unbalanced meat to anything else ratios, forbid milk, yogurt, cereal...oh and breakfast because nobody really needs breakfast. And if you admit to eating or enjoying salad or raw vegetables, you scorned and scoffed at. If you missed the sarcasm...there was a lot. Their boards are not only not supportive, they are aggressively hostile if you disagree with anything they say. And...Marcia. Gah! Cannot stand the woman.

While eating slowly and stopping when full is good, the rest is garbage. It was esp bad for me as high protien makes me ill. If I don't eat enough veg, bad things happen. Very bad things. At least it is free. (Was for me, too)

If employers are paying for their employees to join this programme to me it smacks of them [employers] wanting to obtain conformity/obedience in their employees.....just my personal take on it.

rheddmobile · February 2019

There really aren't any scientifically conducted studies on whether 15 edamame are superior to other forms of "not snacks." I haven't searched for it but am willing to make a fairly large wager on this.

Probably for most people this diet will end up causing them to consume fewer calories. However, it's way more trouble than just logging, and there's no magic involved. And certain things like the constant OJ would actually harm me, a diabetic, if I had to do them, so there's that.

kshama2001 · February 2019

Lol to no snacks yet allowing these putatively non-snacks: 1 hard boiled egg, 5 strawberries, 1 tsp peanut butter, 15 peanuts, 2 cups popcorn, 2 peanut butter crackers, 1 oz meat or jerkey, 1/4 high fiber cereal, or 15 edamame.

Well, it's free, and there are some useful things amidst the woo.

I assume you are getting weighed weekly? I found that helpful when I did WW. I had daily weigh ins when I did the VA TeleMOVE program, and periodic check ins, and knowing someone was looking at my weight was useful to me.

psychod787 · February 2019

To me it's not the meal pattern aspect that bothers me, the restrictive food selection does.

Fatty_Nuff · February 2019

I saw the company's website. It said no refunds at any time. That says something about their character.

snickerscharlie · February 2019

Honestly? You couldn't pay me to do this.

neugebauer52 · February 2019

Why didn't our ancestors a million years ago come up with such a splendid idea? By now we would not have overweight people any more! Obviously they ate what they could find, had no watch, virtually no starches, no chemicals and didn't know how big their stomachs were. Silly people! How on earth did they survive that long? "They" should have died out a long time ago....

MissyCHF · February 2019

EvilShenanigansTX , Could you have said 'no' to this offer and just not taken part in it? Have any other employees refused to try it? Did you feel coerced into joining in? Or did you think, okay, I'll give it a try? Sorry about the questions, I just feel uncomfortable about the whole idea.

pinuplove · February 2019

Pretty sure one teaspoon of peanut butter is what's left to lick off the knife after making my sandwich. Not a snack.

kshama2001 · February 2019

EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »

My husband's employer has offered us the Naturally Slim program at no charge, and we decided to give it a try. We just completed week 1 and I must say, it is giving me conflicted feelings.

For anyone wondering, the program is meant to retrain the way you eat and behave around food. Essentially you chew slowly, eat only one thing on your plate at a time (no combining flavors) to satisfy your brain's 'taste center' , and you eat using a timer (10 minutes eating, 5 minute break to evaluate your hunger levels), then 10 or more minutes eating if needed).

You are supposed to think of your portions in terms of stomach size - they use a loosely held fist. You are also supposed to sip a 7:1 ratio of water to OJ through the day to level out blood sugar. No snacks. Ever.

They encourage food diaries but greatly discourage calorie tracking, or eliminating any foods from your diet (so, no low-carb or keto as they are evidently the devil).

Basically eat slowly at a calorie deficit, and stop when you are full. **mind blown**

Anyone else out there doing this? The NS message boards are not supportive - in fact a small number of NS devotees respond to most people and it feels somewhat cult like. I saw some older threads about the program, but didn't want to resurrect a zombie thread.

Thanks!

I'm curious about "eat only one thing on your plate at a time / no combining flavors" - how does this work with foods like stir fry where many flavors and foods are combined?

Nothing satisfies my brain's 'taste center' like Thai food, which is just chock full of different flavors and foods.

When my ex lived in Thailand he dropped 40 pounds without even trying.

Now I want Thai food - going to make Pad Se Ew tonight!

Phirrgus · February 2019

pinuplove wrote: »

Pretty sure one teaspoon of peanut butter is what's left to lick off the knife after making my sandwich. Not a snack.

I AM NOT ALONE!

love my PB, yep.

edit: Restricting calories to a slight deficit is the only thing that has ever worked for me. Not restricting foods and how I choose to juggle those calories throughout the day.

mph323 · February 2019

OP, it sounds to me like you are already drifting toward a way of eating that is more common sense and sustainable. My guess is that if you continue to participate, you'll find you've established a way of eating that works for you and probably doesn't have much to do with the program.

If there's some reward associated with continuing with the program, my opinion is there's no harm in going through the motions while following your own path - nobody's following you around documenting when and what you eat ( I hope!)

If the sole purpose of the program is a misguided attempt encourage employees to lose weight and improve their health markers, and you find you are losing weight without conforming to most of the rules, my guess is you'll get fed up with the nonsense and move on, taking with you a couple of things that are working for you and dropping the rest.

Either way, the very best of luck! You seem to have a good handle on the basics of weight management, and maybe just the weekly weigh-in accountability will help you stay on track.

kami3006 · February 2019

Phirrgus wrote: »

pinuplove wrote: »

Pretty sure one teaspoon of peanut butter is what's left to lick off the knife after making my sandwich. Not a snack.

I AM NOT ALONE!

love my PB, yep.

edit: Restricting calories to a slight deficit is the only thing that has ever worked for me. Not restricting foods and how I choose to juggle those calories throughout the day.

It's sad that you ever thought your were. PB is the answer to so many things.

Phirrgus · February 2019

kami3006 wrote: »

Phirrgus wrote: »

pinuplove wrote: »

Pretty sure one teaspoon of peanut butter is what's left to lick off the knife after making my sandwich. Not a snack.

I AM NOT ALONE!

love my PB, yep.

edit: Restricting calories to a slight deficit is the only thing that has ever worked for me. Not restricting foods and how I choose to juggle those calories throughout the day.

It's sad that you ever thought your were. PB is the answer to so many things.

I would be lying if I were to say I didn't give in to some woo in the past. It was neither fun nor beneficial

One of my main pain points in the past was that, in trying to be "open minded" to some of the solutions out there, I remained closed minded to the simplest and most effective. It took a long time for me to learn that food (all foods) was not the enemy.

kami3006 · February 2019

Phirrgus wrote: »

kami3006 wrote: »

Phirrgus wrote: »

pinuplove wrote: »

Pretty sure one teaspoon of peanut butter is what's left to lick off the knife after making my sandwich. Not a snack.

I AM NOT ALONE!

love my PB, yep.

edit: Restricting calories to a slight deficit is the only thing that has ever worked for me. Not restricting foods and how I choose to juggle those calories throughout the day.

It's sad that you ever thought your were. PB is the answer to so many things.

I would be lying if I were to say I didn't give in to some woo in the past. It was neither fun nor beneficial

One of my main pain points in the past was that, in trying to be "open minded" to some of the solutions out there, I remained closed minded to the simplest and most effective. It took a long time for me to learn that food (all foods) was not the enemy.

I think most people have succumbed to it. It's easy to find and often very convincing. Live and learn.

Naturally Slim Program

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