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The Impossible Whopper: Your thoughts on plant-based burgers?
Replies
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amusedmonkey wrote: »And they have a mission.... oddly ominous. Lol
Of course they have a mission. Every venture does and sometimes lists their mission statement on their website. They wouldn't have created it if they didn't want to accomplish something with it. If it was up to them, no one would ever eat meat again. That's irrelevant, though. Does it taste good? Does it serve a purpose? Does it provide an option? That's what's important.
I forgot the sarcastic winky face
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According to newly published research by Glatzle, who has written over 100 scientific papers and two textbooks, “There is no scientific evidence, whatsoever, that domestic livestock could represent a risk for the Earth’s climate.”
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This came up on Twitter:
The new recipe has 8g less protein but it is 31% of the DV of protein vs 27%. I haven't tried to figure out that math yet.
Beats me who created this, but I just checked the BK site, and it doesn't seem to give the DV for protein (labels do not). If you google it you do get a feature (not sure where from, the address is google + search related terms) that shows a nutrition label, but the one for the Whopper (regular one) has 56% for protein. The DV for protein is apparently only 50 g.
It's actually directly from their website (save for the circling of course). Here's the link.
Thanks. Yeah, there's an error.
It turns out there's not an error. First of all, in case anyone else was confused, the two panels aren't comparing the original whopper to the whopper with the Impossible Burger, but the new and old versions of the Impossible Burger. The old version of the Impossible Burger had 28 g of protein, but that protein was primarily a textured wheat protein source with soy protein added. Under the DV% for protein rules, you can't count the wheat protein toward the percentage DV (or at least must discount it -- I need to check the actual rules), due to the lack of lysine. Soy protein (the main source of protein in the new version) can be counted in full. That's why the percentage for the original version is actually lower than the new one.10 -
I've tried the Impossible Burger at three places now - Umami Burger, Fat Burger, and Carl's Jr. So far, Umami Burger was the best and the only one that was indistinguishable from a real burger. Fat Burger tasted and looked more like ground chicken or ground pork. I tried Carl's Jr twice and the second time it made me nauseous about halfway through. I thought I read somewhere that it has to be cooked a certain way in order for it taste like real beef.
Carl's Jr is the Beyond Burger, not the Impossible Burger. To me, the products have distinct differences. Between the two, I prefer the Impossible Burger.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I wouldn't eat it. I have no reason to eat a replacement food when I can eat the real thing. IMO, replacement foods are not generally up to the same nutritional level as the real food.
I like the option of it for those vegetarians who enjoyed meat but gave it up for some other reason, and for those who cant eat fast food because they are halal.
I would stick to meat for a few reasons:
Gluten- as a celiac, it would not be safe, not that fast food is often safe.
Nutrition - meat is generally more nutritious than plant proteins.
Limiting seed PUFASs - I'd rather eat saturated fats that we've eaten safely (badically) forever.
Environmental reasons- fewer animals die for beef than monocrops; pastured animals improve the soil and water retention; grasslands help with carbon sinks.
Meat is cheaper - fake is less nutrition for more money.
I am all for offering it as an option though. It will work for some. As long as they dont force it on me with a meat tax or something, I say to each their own.
Nutrition: Speaking of the general when this thread is about a specific product isn't necessarily that useful. The Impossible Burger is specifically designed to be similar to beef nutritionally. For this specific product, is there a nutritional concern compared to a ground beef patty?
Keep in mind that the person choosing a Whopper made from an Impossible Burger is likely eating it instead of an equivalent fast food meal made with meat, so the nutritional differences should be considered in that context instead of compared to completely different meals.
Environmental: The typical fast food burger is made from cows being fed soy and corn. If monocrops are a concern, then eliminating beef makes more sense as it takes many pounds of feed to produce just a pound of beef. Eating the soy ourselves is the more rational choice for those with this environmental concern, as it reduces the overall demand. Comparing the environmental impact to a pastured animal makes sense only if the majority of fast food burgers are coming from pastured animals. Are they?
Nutritionally, if someone is eating fast food once in a while, it probably makes little to no difference what burger they chose because other foods will fill in for deficiencies. My point was just that they are probably not equal, and that meat us probably more complete. Not a big deal unless it is an everyday thing.
Most beef only spend a very short time on feedlots. The vast majority of their time is on a pasture, so no, they are not mono cropped. At least not in my country. And when they do go to a feedlot, they tend to get the waste crops that we cant or dont eat as well.
Instead of saying they "probably" aren't equal, can you tell me what you'd expect to get in a burger that isn't in the Impossible Burger?
In my country, pollution from feedlots is a major issue and cows are fed soy and corn, even when they are pastured for part of their lives. So choosing a beef burger due to concern about pollution or monocrops wouldn't make sense.
Real beef. Fake beef will not be real beef. It will not be the same. It may be similar but I doubt its proteins are the same or complete. I am guessing the vitamins and minerals differ. I am guessing there are more pufas and less saturated fats.
As a human, I am designed to eat meat. I am probably not designed to eat vegan burgers. I am not saying they are bad. I am saying they are less than ideal for me. Ymmv
"Fake" versus "real" isn't an objective nutritional difference. That's more of an emotionally driven assessment.
You're guessing a lot here. The nutritional information is available for this product. You don't have to guess, yet you keep doing so.
For the average person ordering a Impossible Whopper instead of a regular Whopper, is the difference in nutritional impact worth noting? I still haven't seen a compelling reason to think that there is.
"It's not real" isn't an objection that is based in an actual assessment of the differences.
I do not believe that I was "designed" to eat anything. This is an argument that is absolutely not based in any evidence, it's completely emotional. You're free, of course, to reject foods based on religious grounds. But in the context of a debate, it doesn't really move us forward.
So it's not "real," it's not ideal, it's not what you're meant to eat. These are all emotional responses.
I dont think that saying I am not evolved to eat vegan burgers us emotional. That's factual.
Just like humans are not evolved to drink baby formula. They are meant to drink breast milk. If formula bad? No. Is it as good as breast milk? No. It is fake, or imitation, breast milk.
I feel you are defending the fake/imitation beef patty emotionally. So what if it is not as nutritious as beef would be? As I said, i doubt it will make much difference in peoples' lives unless they eat it daily.
I am saying guess because I dont want to research nutritional differences that exist between meat and vegan alternatives.
I say designed in evolutionary terms. Not religious. Humans are meat eaters. I see no reason to replace it with soy and corn proteins if I am not being forced to. I dont see where we evolved (were designed) to rely on plant proteins, yeast and added vitamins and minerals for our nutritional needs. We can get by on it, sure, but is it ideally suited to the human body? Doubtful. Will eating imitation burger once in a while hurt? Also doubtful. But I am all for people having that option if they want it.
You wrote "designed." If you meant "evolved," that's a different statement.
Do you think you evolved to eat Burger King Whoppers? Go through a drive-thru? Exchange currency for a paper bag full of food?
Why is the plant burger where the line is drawn?
If we're looking what humans have evolved to do and limiting ourselves to activities with a long prehistorical/historical record, then Burger King as a whole is probably out. Restaurants of all kinds are out.
Should we be limiting ourselves only to activities for which there is a well-established history over long periods of human evolution?
It's fine not to want to research the differences between the Impossible Burger and the regular Whopper, but I do think if you refuse to educate yourself on it then it doesn't really make sense for you to offer opinions on the nutritional differences.
This isn't an emotional defense for me, it's just intellectually hard for me to understand the exact nature of some of these objections especially when you're sharing that you haven't even bothered to learn anything about the nutritional specifics of the product in question.
I dont eat whoppers. I dont think I ever had. I think I last ate take out in 2010. It isn't for me. Tonight I had burger patties for dinner though. Beef and eggs with a few spices. I think we evolved (were designed by evolution) to eat that .
The line does not need to be drawn at plant burgers. I have said over and over that it's a nice option for people to have. I just do not want to eat it. I wouldn't eat the bun or the fries or drink a glass if milk either. It's just food choices based in my own needs and preferences. Just because it is there is no reason for me to eat it.
Perhaps you could offer me what you have researched on its nutritional strengths in comparison to the beef burger? You researched it because you have an opinion, correct? Nutritionally I said it is not the same as beef but you are welcome to prove me wrong.
To me it comes down to why would I eat an imitation burger, that costs more and does not have the same nutrition as beef, when i could eat and enjoy the beef patty? I can see no reason at all.
Nobody is saying you have to eat it. The point is that your objections are subjective and you're trying to position them as objective reasons to avoid it.
"I don't want to eat it" is a perfectly valid reason not to eat something but let's not position it as some sort of logical stance.
Yes, I have read about the nutritional differences between the Impossible Burger and a beef burger. That's why it seemed odd to me when you asserted, as if it was factual, that the Impossible Burger was nutritionally inferior. You made the claim based on your assumptions and I think that deserves to be called out. Again, you're free to share what you think the relevant nutritional differences are since you're the one who is making the argument that it should be avoided for nutritional reasons.11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I wouldn't eat it. I have no reason to eat a replacement food when I can eat the real thing. IMO, replacement foods are not generally up to the same nutritional level as the real food.
I like the option of it for those vegetarians who enjoyed meat but gave it up for some other reason, and for those who cant eat fast food because they are halal.
I would stick to meat for a few reasons:
Gluten- as a celiac, it would not be safe, not that fast food is often safe.
Nutrition - meat is generally more nutritious than plant proteins.
Limiting seed PUFASs - I'd rather eat saturated fats that we've eaten safely (badically) forever.
Environmental reasons- fewer animals die for beef than monocrops; pastured animals improve the soil and water retention; grasslands help with carbon sinks.
Meat is cheaper - fake is less nutrition for more money.
I am all for offering it as an option though. It will work for some. As long as they dont force it on me with a meat tax or something, I say to each their own.
Nutrition: Speaking of the general when this thread is about a specific product isn't necessarily that useful. The Impossible Burger is specifically designed to be similar to beef nutritionally. For this specific product, is there a nutritional concern compared to a ground beef patty?
Keep in mind that the person choosing a Whopper made from an Impossible Burger is likely eating it instead of an equivalent fast food meal made with meat, so the nutritional differences should be considered in that context instead of compared to completely different meals.
Environmental: The typical fast food burger is made from cows being fed soy and corn. If monocrops are a concern, then eliminating beef makes more sense as it takes many pounds of feed to produce just a pound of beef. Eating the soy ourselves is the more rational choice for those with this environmental concern, as it reduces the overall demand. Comparing the environmental impact to a pastured animal makes sense only if the majority of fast food burgers are coming from pastured animals. Are they?
Nutritionally, if someone is eating fast food once in a while, it probably makes little to no difference what burger they chose because other foods will fill in for deficiencies. My point was just that they are probably not equal, and that meat us probably more complete. Not a big deal unless it is an everyday thing.
Most beef only spend a very short time on feedlots. The vast majority of their time is on a pasture, so no, they are not mono cropped. At least not in my country. And when they do go to a feedlot, they tend to get the waste crops that we cant or dont eat as well.
Instead of saying they "probably" aren't equal, can you tell me what you'd expect to get in a burger that isn't in the Impossible Burger?
In my country, pollution from feedlots is a major issue and cows are fed soy and corn, even when they are pastured for part of their lives. So choosing a beef burger due to concern about pollution or monocrops wouldn't make sense.
Real beef. Fake beef will not be real beef. It will not be the same. It may be similar but I doubt its proteins are the same or complete. I am guessing the vitamins and minerals differ. I am guessing there are more pufas and less saturated fats.
As a human, I am designed to eat meat. I am probably not designed to eat vegan burgers. I am not saying they are bad. I am saying they are less than ideal for me. Ymmv
"Fake" versus "real" isn't an objective nutritional difference. That's more of an emotionally driven assessment.
You're guessing a lot here. The nutritional information is available for this product. You don't have to guess, yet you keep doing so.
For the average person ordering a Impossible Whopper instead of a regular Whopper, is the difference in nutritional impact worth noting? I still haven't seen a compelling reason to think that there is.
"It's not real" isn't an objection that is based in an actual assessment of the differences.
I do not believe that I was "designed" to eat anything. This is an argument that is absolutely not based in any evidence, it's completely emotional. You're free, of course, to reject foods based on religious grounds. But in the context of a debate, it doesn't really move us forward.
So it's not "real," it's not ideal, it's not what you're meant to eat. These are all emotional responses.
I dont think that saying I am not evolved to eat vegan burgers us emotional. That's factual.
Just like humans are not evolved to drink baby formula. They are meant to drink breast milk. If formula bad? No. Is it as good as breast milk? No. It is fake, or imitation, breast milk.
I feel you are defending the fake/imitation beef patty emotionally. So what if it is not as nutritious as beef would be? As I said, i doubt it will make much difference in peoples' lives unless they eat it daily.
I am saying guess because I dont want to research nutritional differences that exist between meat and vegan alternatives.
I say designed in evolutionary terms. Not religious. Humans are meat eaters. I see no reason to replace it with soy and corn proteins if I am not being forced to. I dont see where we evolved (were designed) to rely on plant proteins, yeast and added vitamins and minerals for our nutritional needs. We can get by on it, sure, but is it ideally suited to the human body? Doubtful. Will eating imitation burger once in a while hurt? Also doubtful. But I am all for people having that option if they want it.
You wrote "designed." If you meant "evolved," that's a different statement.
Do you think you evolved to eat Burger King Whoppers? Go through a drive-thru? Exchange currency for a paper bag full of food?
Why is the plant burger where the line is drawn?
If we're looking what humans have evolved to do and limiting ourselves to activities with a long prehistorical/historical record, then Burger King as a whole is probably out. Restaurants of all kinds are out.
Should we be limiting ourselves only to activities for which there is a well-established history over long periods of human evolution?
It's fine not to want to research the differences between the Impossible Burger and the regular Whopper, but I do think if you refuse to educate yourself on it then it doesn't really make sense for you to offer opinions on the nutritional differences.
This isn't an emotional defense for me, it's just intellectually hard for me to understand the exact nature of some of these objections especially when you're sharing that you haven't even bothered to learn anything about the nutritional specifics of the product in question.
I dont eat whoppers. I dont think I ever had. I think I last ate take out in 2010. It isn't for me.
You realize it is incredibly diverse, right?
My two favorites are a local Ethiopian place and a local Indian place. Both are helpful because they have vegan options but also are easy to make keto-friendly (eat the Ethiopian with a fork, no bread, forget the rice and be choosy about the dishes for the Indian place), so pretty much anyone can be happy. Another favorite is a Persian place that has some vegan options, but also my favorite salmon kebobs with baba ganoush, extra veg, and a cucumber salad. Makes 3-4 meals, and so worth it.Tonight I had burger patties for dinner though. Beef and eggs with a few spices. I think we evolved (were designed by evolution) to eat that .
Evolution and design are not synonyms.Perhaps you could offer me what you have researched on its nutritional strengths in comparison to the beef burger? You researched it because you have an opinion, correct? Nutritionally I said it is not the same as beef but you are welcome to prove me wrong.
They seem pretty similar. Also, in some ways beef is lacking when compared with salmon (omega 3) or black beans (fiber, among other nutrients), etc., but I don't slam beef as nutritionally lacking. Foods are different. Personally, I see no reason to consume mammals and/or birds and not beef, that's not an ethical difference to me, and I think beef is pretty tasty and not unhealthy in moderation, but I do like to minimize my meat consumption (and make most of it fish), and so vegan options are nice. At a fast food place, they currently suck, so improving them seems like a good thing. (I'm doing 100% plant-based for Lent AND traveling a lot, and it's irritating how many places, not particularly fast food, have bad vegan options. Some have good salad bars and I rarely do fast food, but IMO most fast food salads aren't that appetizing so I applaud the Impossible Whopper option.
What is diverse? Whoppers? Takeout? If takeout, I realize that LOL As I said,repeatedly, it is nice that people have options.
I also realize that design and evolution are not synonymous, hence the clarification.
Similar and same are also not synonymous.
I'm not sure where you got slamming from stating that a plant based food is not the same as a meat. Its not. It is not as nutritiounously complete as meat. One could live on beef patties alone, (I would get bored). One could NOT live on vegan patties alone. Again, I am not saying they are bad but they are not of the same nutritional quality.
It's still a nice option for people who want it.
Is anybody planning an Impossible Burger monodiet? This is a ridiculous way to assess food.
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And they have a mission.... oddly ominous. Lol
A company wants people to use their product? Unheard of . . .9 -
According to newly published research by Glatzle, who has written over 100 scientific papers and two textbooks, “There is no scientific evidence, whatsoever, that domestic livestock could represent a risk for the Earth’s climate.”
I looked this guy up and of course he's 1) a climate change denier 2) a meat farmer with strong ties to meat industry lobbyists.
So yeah...14 -
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I think every fast food place should have a veggie burger. I don't understand how it doesn't just make business sense. (Yes I am a vegetarian but that isn't my point.) We don't prefer to eat fast food but when we are driving somewhere (husband and I) and we want to pick up something quick we would drive-thru at McDonald's IF they had a veggie burger for me to eat, while my husband eats his beef burger. But they don't. So we go to Harvey's.
One vegetarian in a group of people that has to be fed can make the decision for where the whole group goes. I don't get why they don't all have a veggie burger option.5 -
I think every fast food place should have a veggie burger. I don't understand how it doesn't just make business sense. (Yes I am a vegetarian but that isn't my point.) We don't prefer to eat fast food but when we are driving somewhere (husband and I) and we want to pick up something quick we would drive-thru at McDonald's IF they had a veggie burger for me to eat, while my husband eats his beef burger. But they don't. So we go to Harvey's.
One vegetarian in a group of people that has to be fed can make the decision for where the whole group goes. I don't get why they don't all have a veggie burger option.
I imagine the demand is not there yet. Believe me, if they thought there would be a profit they would.1 -
I'll try anything once.0
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I think every fast food place should have a veggie burger. I don't understand how it doesn't just make business sense. (Yes I am a vegetarian but that isn't my point.) We don't prefer to eat fast food but when we are driving somewhere (husband and I) and we want to pick up something quick we would drive-thru at McDonald's IF they had a veggie burger for me to eat, while my husband eats his beef burger. But they don't. So we go to Harvey's.
One vegetarian in a group of people that has to be fed can make the decision for where the whole group goes. I don't get why they don't all have a veggie burger option.
I imagine the demand is not there yet. Believe me, if they thought there would be a profit they would.
Yep, in places where vegetarian and vegan diets are more common, McDonald's already offers options for them. They're not doing it here yet, but they clearly aren't ideologically opposed to making money from it. When/if the market shifts more here, we'll probably see more options.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I think every fast food place should have a veggie burger. I don't understand how it doesn't just make business sense. (Yes I am a vegetarian but that isn't my point.) We don't prefer to eat fast food but when we are driving somewhere (husband and I) and we want to pick up something quick we would drive-thru at McDonald's IF they had a veggie burger for me to eat, while my husband eats his beef burger. But they don't. So we go to Harvey's.
One vegetarian in a group of people that has to be fed can make the decision for where the whole group goes. I don't get why they don't all have a veggie burger option.
I imagine the demand is not there yet. Believe me, if they thought there would be a profit they would.
Yep, in places where vegetarian and vegan diets are more common, McDonald's already offers options for them. They're not doing it here yet, but they clearly aren't ideologically opposed to making money from it. When/if the market shifts more here, we'll probably see more options.
Hmm. I am in Canada and supposedly 10% of us are vegetarian/vegan. I would think that would be enough to influence the market, but maybe not.
There is an assumption (idk how true it is) that vegetarians are more health conscious. Maybe they wouldn't eat much at fast food places and that is why they don't cater to them.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I think every fast food place should have a veggie burger. I don't understand how it doesn't just make business sense. (Yes I am a vegetarian but that isn't my point.) We don't prefer to eat fast food but when we are driving somewhere (husband and I) and we want to pick up something quick we would drive-thru at McDonald's IF they had a veggie burger for me to eat, while my husband eats his beef burger. But they don't. So we go to Harvey's.
One vegetarian in a group of people that has to be fed can make the decision for where the whole group goes. I don't get why they don't all have a veggie burger option.
I imagine the demand is not there yet. Believe me, if they thought there would be a profit they would.
Yep, in places where vegetarian and vegan diets are more common, McDonald's already offers options for them. They're not doing it here yet, but they clearly aren't ideologically opposed to making money from it. When/if the market shifts more here, we'll probably see more options.
Hmm. I am in Canada and supposedly 10% of us are vegetarian/vegan. I would think that would be enough to influence the market, but maybe not.
There is an assumption (idk how true it is) that vegetarians are more health conscious. Maybe they wouldn't eat much at fast food places and that is why they don't cater to them.
I am not sure what the tipping point is for larger chains, but my point was that if McDonald's is offering vegetarian options in India and parts of Europe, but not in the US/Canada, their own research is showing that the tipping point isn't there yet. Maybe the success of more recent offerings from other chains will help them realize the time has come (I hope so!).1 -
Hmm. I am in Canada and supposedly 10% of us are vegetarian/vegan. I would think that would be enough to influence the market, but maybe not.
There is an assumption (idk how true it is) that vegetarians are more health conscious. Maybe they wouldn't eat much at fast food places and that is why they don't cater to them.
Canada is so large that the it's virtually guaranteed that the population isn't smoothly distributed across the country. There are probably areas with 15-20% vegetarian and areas with "that Wilson girl" as their sole representative.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I think every fast food place should have a veggie burger. I don't understand how it doesn't just make business sense. (Yes I am a vegetarian but that isn't my point.) We don't prefer to eat fast food but when we are driving somewhere (husband and I) and we want to pick up something quick we would drive-thru at McDonald's IF they had a veggie burger for me to eat, while my husband eats his beef burger. But they don't. So we go to Harvey's.
One vegetarian in a group of people that has to be fed can make the decision for where the whole group goes. I don't get why they don't all have a veggie burger option.
I imagine the demand is not there yet. Believe me, if they thought there would be a profit they would.
Yep, in places where vegetarian and vegan diets are more common, McDonald's already offers options for them. They're not doing it here yet, but they clearly aren't ideologically opposed to making money from it. When/if the market shifts more here, we'll probably see more options.
Hmm. I am in Canada and supposedly 10% of us are vegetarian/vegan. I would think that would be enough to influence the market, but maybe not.
There is an assumption (idk how true it is) that vegetarians are more health conscious. Maybe they wouldn't eat much at fast food places and that is why they don't cater to them.
I am not sure what the tipping point is for larger chains, but my point was that if McDonald's is offering vegetarian options in India and parts of Europe, but not in the US/Canada, their own research is showing that the tipping point isn't there yet. Maybe the success of more recent offerings from other chains will help them realize the time has come (I hope so!).
I think the general hope with burgers like the impossible burger and beyond burger, etc, is that they can draw some of the market share of meat eaters as well, to make it more viable. People who wouldn't want a normal veggie burger but would be willing to eat this. And combine them with vegetarians and you have a real market for it.1 -
FireOpalCO wrote: »
Hmm. I am in Canada and supposedly 10% of us are vegetarian/vegan. I would think that would be enough to influence the market, but maybe not.
There is an assumption (idk how true it is) that vegetarians are more health conscious. Maybe they wouldn't eat much at fast food places and that is why they don't cater to them.
Canada is so large that the it's virtually guaranteed that the population isn't smoothly distributed across the country. There are probably areas with 15-20% vegetarian and areas with "that Wilson girl" as their sole representative.
A new kosher restaurant just opened up in Toronto and started offering it. This is amazing, in no small part because kosher restaurants are either "meat" or "dairy" and it's rare that a meat restaurant will have more than one vegetarian option (usually stir-fried veg over steamed rice or just plain pasta in tomato sauce. I.E. pretty low protein.) I do plan on trying it at some point, though given the restaurant prices, it'll have to be a special occasion.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I think every fast food place should have a veggie burger. I don't understand how it doesn't just make business sense. (Yes I am a vegetarian but that isn't my point.) We don't prefer to eat fast food but when we are driving somewhere (husband and I) and we want to pick up something quick we would drive-thru at McDonald's IF they had a veggie burger for me to eat, while my husband eats his beef burger. But they don't. So we go to Harvey's.
One vegetarian in a group of people that has to be fed can make the decision for where the whole group goes. I don't get why they don't all have a veggie burger option.
I imagine the demand is not there yet. Believe me, if they thought there would be a profit they would.
Yep, in places where vegetarian and vegan diets are more common, McDonald's already offers options for them. They're not doing it here yet, but they clearly aren't ideologically opposed to making money from it. When/if the market shifts more here, we'll probably see more options.
Hmm. I am in Canada and supposedly 10% of us are vegetarian/vegan. I would think that would be enough to influence the market, but maybe not.
There is an assumption (idk how true it is) that vegetarians are more health conscious. Maybe they wouldn't eat much at fast food places and that is why they don't cater to them.
McDonald's in Canada was selling a vegetarian wrap a while ago. They took it off the menu. Guess it wasn't selling well enough. The wrap was veggies with hummus and feta cheese and some feta-based sauce.
The Beyond Meat burger and Beyond Sausage at A&W in Canada has been selling extremely well, though. The Beyond meat burger was even sold out for a few days after launch. So maybe it's also about the product they offer - A&W veggie options appeal to even some meat-eaters, (and probably is more appealing to vegans as well); a wrap with only veggies doesn't.1 -
I think every fast food place should have a veggie burger. I don't understand how it doesn't just make business sense. (Yes I am a vegetarian but that isn't my point.) We don't prefer to eat fast food but when we are driving somewhere (husband and I) and we want to pick up something quick we would drive-thru at McDonald's IF they had a veggie burger for me to eat, while my husband eats his beef burger. But they don't. So we go to Harvey's.
One vegetarian in a group of people that has to be fed can make the decision for where the whole group goes. I don't get why they don't all have a veggie burger option.
I imagine the demand is not there yet. Believe me, if they thought there would be a profit they would.
Also having separate areas to cook the veggie burgers will affect workflow.0 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »FireOpalCO wrote: »
Hmm. I am in Canada and supposedly 10% of us are vegetarian/vegan. I would think that would be enough to influence the market, but maybe not.
There is an assumption (idk how true it is) that vegetarians are more health conscious. Maybe they wouldn't eat much at fast food places and that is why they don't cater to them.
Canada is so large that the it's virtually guaranteed that the population isn't smoothly distributed across the country. There are probably areas with 15-20% vegetarian and areas with "that Wilson girl" as their sole representative.
A new kosher restaurant just opened up in Toronto and started offering it. This is amazing, in no small part because kosher restaurants are either "meat" or "dairy" and it's rare that a meat restaurant will have more than one vegetarian option (usually stir-fried veg over steamed rice or just plain pasta in tomato sauce. I.E. pretty low protein.) I do plan on trying it at some point, though given the restaurant prices, it'll have to be a special occasion.
Yeah people who keep strict kosher diets is one of the audiences that I was thinking about who haven't been mentioned. Arguably it's a small audience in most locations, but one that isn't often given options. Mind you, people who only eat food prepared in a kosher kitchen aren't going to going to a Burger King outside of Israe, but I know plenty of people who don't mix meat and dairy but will eat out at non-kosher restaurants.1 -
I think every fast food place should have a veggie burger. I don't understand how it doesn't just make business sense. (Yes I am a vegetarian but that isn't my point.) We don't prefer to eat fast food but when we are driving somewhere (husband and I) and we want to pick up something quick we would drive-thru at McDonald's IF they had a veggie burger for me to eat, while my husband eats his beef burger. But they don't. So we go to Harvey's.
One vegetarian in a group of people that has to be fed can make the decision for where the whole group goes. I don't get why they don't all have a veggie burger option.
I imagine the demand is not there yet. Believe me, if they thought there would be a profit they would.
Also having separate areas to cook the veggie burgers will affect workflow.
Any indication that they're cooking them separately? It doesn't seem as if most restaurants cook their vegetarian things separately from the meaty ones, even if that means a common grill surface for things like burgers.0 -
"The patty in our Beyond Meat Burger is 100% plant-based. However, we cook all our burger patties, including our beef patties, on the same grill, and our mayo is made with eggs. Our restaurants are happy to help you modify the toppings of the burger to your preference. See the full ingredients list for the Beyond Meat Burger..."
https://web.aw.ca/en/our-values/our-food/beyondmeat2 -
JessAndreia wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I think every fast food place should have a veggie burger. I don't understand how it doesn't just make business sense. (Yes I am a vegetarian but that isn't my point.) We don't prefer to eat fast food but when we are driving somewhere (husband and I) and we want to pick up something quick we would drive-thru at McDonald's IF they had a veggie burger for me to eat, while my husband eats his beef burger. But they don't. So we go to Harvey's.
One vegetarian in a group of people that has to be fed can make the decision for where the whole group goes. I don't get why they don't all have a veggie burger option.
I imagine the demand is not there yet. Believe me, if they thought there would be a profit they would.
Yep, in places where vegetarian and vegan diets are more common, McDonald's already offers options for them. They're not doing it here yet, but they clearly aren't ideologically opposed to making money from it. When/if the market shifts more here, we'll probably see more options.
Hmm. I am in Canada and supposedly 10% of us are vegetarian/vegan. I would think that would be enough to influence the market, but maybe not.
There is an assumption (idk how true it is) that vegetarians are more health conscious. Maybe they wouldn't eat much at fast food places and that is why they don't cater to them.
McDonald's in Canada was selling a vegetarian wrap a while ago. They took it off the menu. Guess it wasn't selling well enough. The wrap was veggies with hummus and feta cheese and some feta-based sauce.
The Beyond Meat burger and Beyond Sausage at A&W in Canada has been selling extremely well, though. The Beyond meat burger was even sold out for a few days after launch. So maybe it's also about the product they offer - A&W veggie options appeal to even some meat-eaters, (and probably is more appealing to vegans as well); a wrap with only veggies doesn't.
They took the veggie wraps off the menu when they went with the all day breakfast, so my guess is that they consider the egg muffin thing their veggie option? Idk I just know on the drive to my cottage I used to be able to get a veggie wrap, or even a grilled cheese, which they used to have in the kids meals, which they also dont have anymore. I dont care all that much about McDonalds but it seems weird to me that they are going in the opposite direction. 🤷♀️ Personally I still think is odd they dont have a veggie burger.
As for the beyond meat burger it doesnt really appeal to me. I dont really have the desire to eat something that imitates meat at this point. I would much rather have a black bean, or lentil or portobello mushroom burger. I would eat a burger like that if I was in a hurry/drive through type scenario. But I wouldn't seek it out.1 -
I think every fast food place should have a veggie burger. I don't understand how it doesn't just make business sense. (Yes I am a vegetarian but that isn't my point.) We don't prefer to eat fast food but when we are driving somewhere (husband and I) and we want to pick up something quick we would drive-thru at McDonald's IF they had a veggie burger for me to eat, while my husband eats his beef burger. But they don't. So we go to Harvey's.
One vegetarian in a group of people that has to be fed can make the decision for where the whole group goes. I don't get why they don't all have a veggie burger option.
I imagine the demand is not there yet. Believe me, if they thought there would be a profit they would.
Also having separate areas to cook the veggie burgers will affect workflow.
Any indication that they're cooking them separately? It doesn't seem as if most restaurants cook their vegetarian things separately from the meaty ones, even if that means a common grill surface for things like burgers.
Burger King might not, but I wasn't referring to them specifically. There are definitely restaurants that do this, including some fast food restaurants that do this though.0 -
I think every fast food place should have a veggie burger. I don't understand how it doesn't just make business sense. (Yes I am a vegetarian but that isn't my point.) We don't prefer to eat fast food but when we are driving somewhere (husband and I) and we want to pick up something quick we would drive-thru at McDonald's IF they had a veggie burger for me to eat, while my husband eats his beef burger. But they don't. So we go to Harvey's.
One vegetarian in a group of people that has to be fed can make the decision for where the whole group goes. I don't get why they don't all have a veggie burger option.
I imagine the demand is not there yet. Believe me, if they thought there would be a profit they would.
Also having separate areas to cook the veggie burgers will affect workflow.
Any indication that they're cooking them separately? It doesn't seem as if most restaurants cook their vegetarian things separately from the meaty ones, even if that means a common grill surface for things like burgers.
Burger King might not, but I wasn't referring to them specifically. There are definitely restaurants that do this, including some fast food restaurants that do this though.
No evidence, but I wonder if that might be more common in your area (NW coast, urban, I think?) vs. mine (Great Lakes, mid-sized city).
1 -
This came up on Twitter:
The new recipe has 8g less protein but it is 31% of the DV of protein vs 27%. I haven't tried to figure out that math yet.
Beats me who created this, but I just checked the BK site, and it doesn't seem to give the DV for protein (labels do not). If you google it you do get a feature (not sure where from, the address is google + search related terms) that shows a nutrition label, but the one for the Whopper (regular one) has 56% for protein. The DV for protein is apparently only 50 g.
It's actually directly from their website (save for the circling of course). Here's the link.
Thanks. Yeah, there's an error.
It turns out there's not an error. First of all, in case anyone else was confused, the two panels aren't comparing the original whopper to the whopper with the Impossible Burger, but the new and old versions of the Impossible Burger. The old version of the Impossible Burger had 28 g of protein, but that protein was primarily a textured wheat protein source with soy protein added. Under the DV% for protein rules, you can't count the wheat protein toward the percentage DV (or at least must discount it -- I need to check the actual rules), due to the lack of lysine. Soy protein (the main source of protein in the new version) can be counted in full. That's why the percentage for the original version is actually lower than the new one.
Impressive. Good detective skills.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I wouldn't eat it. I have no reason to eat a replacement food when I can eat the real thing. IMO, replacement foods are not generally up to the same nutritional level as the real food.
I like the option of it for those vegetarians who enjoyed meat but gave it up for some other reason, and for those who cant eat fast food because they are halal.
I would stick to meat for a few reasons:
Gluten- as a celiac, it would not be safe, not that fast food is often safe.
Nutrition - meat is generally more nutritious than plant proteins.
Limiting seed PUFASs - I'd rather eat saturated fats that we've eaten safely (badically) forever.
Environmental reasons- fewer animals die for beef than monocrops; pastured animals improve the soil and water retention; grasslands help with carbon sinks.
Meat is cheaper - fake is less nutrition for more money.
I am all for offering it as an option though. It will work for some. As long as they dont force it on me with a meat tax or something, I say to each their own.
Nutrition: Speaking of the general when this thread is about a specific product isn't necessarily that useful. The Impossible Burger is specifically designed to be similar to beef nutritionally. For this specific product, is there a nutritional concern compared to a ground beef patty?
Keep in mind that the person choosing a Whopper made from an Impossible Burger is likely eating it instead of an equivalent fast food meal made with meat, so the nutritional differences should be considered in that context instead of compared to completely different meals.
Environmental: The typical fast food burger is made from cows being fed soy and corn. If monocrops are a concern, then eliminating beef makes more sense as it takes many pounds of feed to produce just a pound of beef. Eating the soy ourselves is the more rational choice for those with this environmental concern, as it reduces the overall demand. Comparing the environmental impact to a pastured animal makes sense only if the majority of fast food burgers are coming from pastured animals. Are they?
Nutritionally, if someone is eating fast food once in a while, it probably makes little to no difference what burger they chose because other foods will fill in for deficiencies. My point was just that they are probably not equal, and that meat us probably more complete. Not a big deal unless it is an everyday thing.
Most beef only spend a very short time on feedlots. The vast majority of their time is on a pasture, so no, they are not mono cropped. At least not in my country. And when they do go to a feedlot, they tend to get the waste crops that we cant or dont eat as well.
Instead of saying they "probably" aren't equal, can you tell me what you'd expect to get in a burger that isn't in the Impossible Burger?
In my country, pollution from feedlots is a major issue and cows are fed soy and corn, even when they are pastured for part of their lives. So choosing a beef burger due to concern about pollution or monocrops wouldn't make sense.
Real beef. Fake beef will not be real beef. It will not be the same. It may be similar but I doubt its proteins are the same or complete. I am guessing the vitamins and minerals differ. I am guessing there are more pufas and less saturated fats.
As a human, I am designed to eat meat. I am probably not designed to eat vegan burgers. I am not saying they are bad. I am saying they are less than ideal for me. Ymmv
"Fake" versus "real" isn't an objective nutritional difference. That's more of an emotionally driven assessment.
You're guessing a lot here. The nutritional information is available for this product. You don't have to guess, yet you keep doing so.
For the average person ordering a Impossible Whopper instead of a regular Whopper, is the difference in nutritional impact worth noting? I still haven't seen a compelling reason to think that there is.
"It's not real" isn't an objection that is based in an actual assessment of the differences.
I do not believe that I was "designed" to eat anything. This is an argument that is absolutely not based in any evidence, it's completely emotional. You're free, of course, to reject foods based on religious grounds. But in the context of a debate, it doesn't really move us forward.
So it's not "real," it's not ideal, it's not what you're meant to eat. These are all emotional responses.
I dont think that saying I am not evolved to eat vegan burgers us emotional. That's factual.
Just like humans are not evolved to drink baby formula. They are meant to drink breast milk. If formula bad? No. Is it as good as breast milk? No. It is fake, or imitation, breast milk.
I feel you are defending the fake/imitation beef patty emotionally. So what if it is not as nutritious as beef would be? As I said, i doubt it will make much difference in peoples' lives unless they eat it daily.
I am saying guess because I dont want to research nutritional differences that exist between meat and vegan alternatives.
I say designed in evolutionary terms. Not religious. Humans are meat eaters. I see no reason to replace it with soy and corn proteins if I am not being forced to. I dont see where we evolved (were designed) to rely on plant proteins, yeast and added vitamins and minerals for our nutritional needs. We can get by on it, sure, but is it ideally suited to the human body? Doubtful. Will eating imitation burger once in a while hurt? Also doubtful. But I am all for people having that option if they want it.
You wrote "designed." If you meant "evolved," that's a different statement.
Do you think you evolved to eat Burger King Whoppers? Go through a drive-thru? Exchange currency for a paper bag full of food?
Why is the plant burger where the line is drawn?
If we're looking what humans have evolved to do and limiting ourselves to activities with a long prehistorical/historical record, then Burger King as a whole is probably out. Restaurants of all kinds are out.
Should we be limiting ourselves only to activities for which there is a well-established history over long periods of human evolution?
It's fine not to want to research the differences between the Impossible Burger and the regular Whopper, but I do think if you refuse to educate yourself on it then it doesn't really make sense for you to offer opinions on the nutritional differences.
This isn't an emotional defense for me, it's just intellectually hard for me to understand the exact nature of some of these objections especially when you're sharing that you haven't even bothered to learn anything about the nutritional specifics of the product in question.
I dont eat whoppers. I dont think I ever had. I think I last ate take out in 2010. It isn't for me. Tonight I had burger patties for dinner though. Beef and eggs with a few spices. I think we evolved (were designed by evolution) to eat that .
The line does not need to be drawn at plant burgers. I have said over and over that it's a nice option for people to have. I just do not want to eat it. I wouldn't eat the bun or the fries or drink a glass if milk either. It's just food choices based in my own needs and preferences. Just because it is there is no reason for me to eat it.
Perhaps you could offer me what you have researched on its nutritional strengths in comparison to the beef burger? You researched it because you have an opinion, correct? Nutritionally I said it is not the same as beef but you are welcome to prove me wrong.
To me it comes down to why would I eat an imitation burger, that costs more and does not have the same nutrition as beef, when i could eat and enjoy the beef patty? I can see no reason at all.
Nobody is saying you have to eat it. The point is that your objections are subjective and you're trying to position them as objective reasons to avoid it.
"I don't want to eat it" is a perfectly valid reason not to eat something but let's not position it as some sort of logical stance.
Yes, I have read about the nutritional differences between the Impossible Burger and a beef burger. That's why it seemed odd to me when you asserted, as if it was factual, that the Impossible Burger was nutritionally inferior. You made the claim based on your assumptions and I think that deserves to be called out. Again, you're free to share what you think the relevant nutritional differences are since you're the one who is making the argument that it should be avoided for nutritional reasons.
Everyone's choice is subjective.
I gave the reasons I had first not wanting to eat fake beef. I choose not to because I would rather eat beef, for many reasons. You just dont agree with me and my reasons... more subjectiveness.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I think every fast food place should have a veggie burger. I don't understand how it doesn't just make business sense. (Yes I am a vegetarian but that isn't my point.) We don't prefer to eat fast food but when we are driving somewhere (husband and I) and we want to pick up something quick we would drive-thru at McDonald's IF they had a veggie burger for me to eat, while my husband eats his beef burger. But they don't. So we go to Harvey's.
One vegetarian in a group of people that has to be fed can make the decision for where the whole group goes. I don't get why they don't all have a veggie burger option.
I imagine the demand is not there yet. Believe me, if they thought there would be a profit they would.
Yep, in places where vegetarian and vegan diets are more common, McDonald's already offers options for them. They're not doing it here yet, but they clearly aren't ideologically opposed to making money from it. When/if the market shifts more here, we'll probably see more options.
Hmm. I am in Canada and supposedly 10% of us are vegetarian/vegan. I would think that would be enough to influence the market, but maybe not.
There is an assumption (idk how true it is) that vegetarians are more health conscious. Maybe they wouldn't eat much at fast food places and that is why they don't cater to them.
I am not sure what the tipping point is for larger chains, but my point was that if McDonald's is offering vegetarian options in India and parts of Europe, but not in the US/Canada, their own research is showing that the tipping point isn't there yet. Maybe the success of more recent offerings from other chains will help them realize the time has come (I hope so!).
I think the general hope with burgers like the impossible burger and beyond burger, etc, is that they can draw some of the market share of meat eaters as well, to make it more viable. People who wouldn't want a normal veggie burger but would be willing to eat this. And combine them with vegetarians and you have a real market for it.
I agree. There is a movement towards plant based foods right now that they are tapping into. It's a smart move.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q84nfWkLsYU
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